Packers @ Commanders GDT: Sunday, Oct. 23rd, 12:00 PM CST

[Labrev]

Honestly the guy that should be traded in the wonderful packer himself, the mayor of door county, AJ Dillon.

AJ could garner a haul in terms of running backs and Jones is still under contract for two years. Plus hill is coming back.

Why should AJ be traded? Because with a guy like AJ you try to win the war, you don’t care so much about the battles. There just isn’t enough ball to give him what he needs to really be effective. Dillon is Derrick Henry. You give him the ball 15 times in first half and 7 of those could easily be for no gain. But you smile while it’s happening. Why? Because after about his 25th carry in quarter 4 the defense doesn’t want any part of him anymore. They are tired of getting popped in the mouth. Those 3 yard runs become 8.

This strategy also uses clock and allows the defense to rest.

We have no Where near the patience to run this style tho. Hell, even people on this forum want to punt on the run after two runs that don’t gain yards lol.

If I were Dillon I'd be pissed and ask for a trade long ago, talents totally going to waste with this team. 'Good thing he loves Wisconsin, I guess.

[lupedafiasco]

Turner was a 3rd or 4th rated RT the year before we let him go, Lewis is the best blocking TE in the biz, ya don't dump these players till there replaced, not as though we have RT's galore, Lewis is showing his age, I'll give ya that, still the best blocking TE we have.

Jones has more then earned his contract,

you would second guess any GM we could have, I sure don't agree with much he's done, but he's hit on some very good defensive picks.

this is Stokes second season, just because he doesn't get it as fast as Alexander doesn't make him a bust.

the Love pick seemed idiotic,but with a power struggle with Rodgers prior, what should we expect Gute to do? I agree, that pick sucked, but after the dust settled it didn't surprise me.
just because the guy wont appease Rodgers with Ferrari WR's doesn't make everything he's done worthless

If Turner was so good why did he just get $2.5M on a 1 year deal from the Broncos? I told yall the day we signed im that bum wasnt worth more than $4M and that was being extremely generous.

I agree Jones earned his contract but the minute they drafted Dillon you cant keep Jones. Thats just wasting resources. Youve either got a 2nd round pick on the benc or a $20M back on the bench. Dumb.

I dont think everything Gute as done is worthless. He as gotten some high end talent. However, outside of the stars he misses so often its unsustainable as I have said for years and now we are seeing the fruits of that. To make matter worse the contracts are really bad. I got no problem keeping Lewis if we had cap space but we owe future years so why are we paying a run blocking TE who is 38 and has no value as a pass catcher $4M? No one is paying that for him. So many poor contracts since hes taken over.

[williewasgreat]

Turner was a 3rd or 4th rated RT the year before we let him go, Lewis is the best blocking TE in the biz, ya don't dump these players till there replaced, not as though we have RT's galore, Lewis is showing his age, I'll give ya that, still the best blocking TE we have.

Jones has more then earned his contract,

you would second guess any GM we could have, I sure don't agree with much he's done, but he's hit on some very good defensive picks.

this is Stokes second season, just because he doesn't get it as fast as Alexander doesn't make him a bust.

the Love pick seemed idiotic,but with a power struggle with Rodgers prior, what should we expect Gute to do? I agree, that pick sucked, but after the dust settled it didn't surprise me.
just because the guy wont appease Rodgers with Ferrari WR's doesn't make everything he's done worthless

If Turner was so good why did he just get $2.5M on a 1 year deal from the Broncos? I told yall the day we signed im that bum wasnt worth more than $4M and that was being extremely generous.

I agree Jones earned his contract but the minute they drafted Dillon you cant keep Jones. Thats just wasting resources. Youve either got a 2nd round pick on the benc or a $20M back on the bench. Dumb.

I dont think everything Gute as done is worthless. He as gotten some high end talent. However, outside of the stars he misses so often its unsustainable as I have said for years and now we are seeing the fruits of that. To make matter worse the contracts are really bad. I got no problem keeping Lewis if we had cap space but we owe future years so why are we paying a run blocking TE who is 38 and has no value as a pass catcher $4M? No one is paying that for him. So many poor contracts since hes taken over.

So, you say that a team should not have two good RBs? What happens when one gets injured, which will happen? I really like Dillon, but the Packers do not play to his strengths. Actually, they don't play to Jones' strengths either. They don't seem to want to run the ball.

[Backthepack4ever]

Honestly the guy that should be traded in the wonderful packer himself, the mayor of door county, AJ Dillon.

AJ could garner a haul in terms of running backs and Jones is still under contract for two years. Plus hill is coming back.

Why should AJ be traded? Because with a guy like AJ you try to win the war, you don’t care so much about the battles. There just isn’t enough ball to give him what he needs to really be effective. Dillon is Derrick Henry. You give him the ball 15 times in first half and 7 of those could easily be for no gain. But you smile while it’s happening. Why? Because after about his 25th carry in quarter 4 the defense doesn’t want any part of him anymore. They are tired of getting popped in the mouth. Those 3 yard runs become 8.

This strategy also uses clock and allows the defense to rest.

We have no Where near the patience to run this style tho. Hell, even people on this forum want to punt on the run after two runs that don’t gain yards lol.

If I were Dillon I'd be pissed and ask for a trade long ago, talents totally going to waste with this team. 'Good thing he loves Wisconsin, I guess.

Huh why would he be pissed and wanting a trade? Dillon has looked slow and not explosive this year. Love the guy but let's not pretend he's earl Campbell at this point

[lupedafiasco]

Turner was a 3rd or 4th rated RT the year before we let him go, Lewis is the best blocking TE in the biz, ya don't dump these players till there replaced, not as though we have RT's galore, Lewis is showing his age, I'll give ya that, still the best blocking TE we have.

Jones has more then earned his contract,

you would second guess any GM we could have, I sure don't agree with much he's done, but he's hit on some very good defensive picks.

this is Stokes second season, just because he doesn't get it as fast as Alexander doesn't make him a bust.

the Love pick seemed idiotic,but with a power struggle with Rodgers prior, what should we expect Gute to do? I agree, that pick sucked, but after the dust settled it didn't surprise me.
just because the guy wont appease Rodgers with Ferrari WR's doesn't make everything he's done worthless

If Turner was so good why did he just get $2.5M on a 1 year deal from the Broncos? I told yall the day we signed im that bum wasnt worth more than $4M and that was being extremely generous.

I agree Jones earned his contract but the minute they drafted Dillon you cant keep Jones. Thats just wasting resources. Youve either got a 2nd round pick on the benc or a $20M back on the bench. Dumb.

I dont think everything Gute as done is worthless. He as gotten some high end talent. However, outside of the stars he misses so often its unsustainable as I have said for years and now we are seeing the fruits of that. To make matter worse the contracts are really bad. I got no problem keeping Lewis if we had cap space but we owe future years so why are we paying a run blocking TE who is 38 and has no value as a pass catcher $4M? No one is paying that for him. So many poor contracts since hes taken over.

So, you say that a team should not have two good RBs? What happens when one gets injured, which will happen? I really like Dillon, but the Packers do not play to his strengths. Actually, they don't play to Jones' strengths either. They don't seem to want to run the ball.

You find a mid round RB to be a backup. What do you need two highly invested RBs for?

[Labrev]

Honestly the guy that should be traded in the wonderful packer himself, the mayor of door county, AJ Dillon.

AJ could garner a haul in terms of running backs and Jones is still under contract for two years. Plus hill is coming back.

Why should AJ be traded? Because with a guy like AJ you try to win the war, you don’t care so much about the battles. There just isn’t enough ball to give him what he needs to really be effective. Dillon is Derrick Henry. You give him the ball 15 times in first half and 7 of those could easily be for no gain. But you smile while it’s happening. Why? Because after about his 25th carry in quarter 4 the defense doesn’t want any part of him anymore. They are tired of getting popped in the mouth. Those 3 yard runs become 8.

This strategy also uses clock and allows the defense to rest.

We have no Where near the patience to run this style tho. Hell, even people on this forum want to punt on the run after two runs that don’t gain yards lol.

If I were Dillon I'd be pissed and ask for a trade long ago, talents totally going to waste with this team. 'Good thing he loves Wisconsin, I guess.

Huh why would he be pissed and wanting a trade? Dillon has looked slow and not explosive this year. Love the guy but let's not pretend he's earl Campbell at this point

He's not Eddy Lacy either. RBs need carries, they aren't just going to explode on every touch, sometimes it takes a bit to get going before breaking a few.

[Yoop]

trouble posting issues, hope it's cleared up now
copied this earlier

Yeah Rodgers's game is aging like milk. So much of it was dependent on escaping the pocket and rolling out, plus the ability to disregard mechanics by virtue of sheer arm strength/talent.

Now his legs and arm are starting to go and he's totally ill-prepared for it. Coach is, too, because he gave Rodgers way too much leeway to run the offense as he likes it.


To say nothing about how stupid it is to try to build a high-flying pass offense for a team whose road to a title will run through Green Bay in winter. That "awesome" 2011 team fell apart like a house of cards as soon as they had to play playoff football in sub-optimal conditions.

gesus Labrev, put down the hash pipe, the 2011 team was figured out because about the only thing it had going for it was the passing game, we couldn't run the ball, the defense rapidly declined, same with ST's, the Giants had excellent pass rush, which gave Rodgers little time to throw.

we are not trying to build a high flying passing attack, simply one that compliments the run, gives us the balance we had the last couple years, and Rodgers still has the ability to do that.

people are saying any ol &%$@ that pops in there head, and most of it is no more then regurgitated banter bloggers spout to sell ink.

often one poor situation leads to the development of another, we had two to start with, a weak and inexperienced WR group, and a OL with two very dependable but still mending All pro's that the FO counted on to be ready, but havn't been, these are huge obstacles for any offense to over come.

the run has had success in games because DC's have respect for Rodgers, that now has waned because Rodgers minimal passing success has diminished the fear of him, so they focus more on stopping the run, it's worked, both Jones and Dillons ypc has declined the last two games.

Blaming Rodgers for all the woes, or Lafluer is just taking the focus off the real issue, OL and WR, 23 brought stats showing great play from several OL man, thing is defenses find the weak link and exploit it the way a QB targets a weak defender, so that negates the great play of the others, to fix the run we have to pass, and of course have consistent play from all of the OL, and receivers have to play better, 5 obvious drops, 4 that stalled drives, ya can't have that, 2 years ago we had 7 drops in a PO game, and went home for the winter, one drop from all pro Adams.

Rodgers is our QB, and this FO should have provided him with more talent at WR, and with his contract will be here another year, why wouldn't he be, we can't force him to do anything, why people refuse to accept that, or that he is off stride do to those two issues, versus a deep decline in his ability doesn't make sense to me.

and QB's don't all of a sudden hit a wall, typically it's a gradual decline, when we see Rodgers Hitting Lazard in stride, when we see receivers drop perfectly thrown and catchable passes thats not Rodgers in decline, thats a issue squarely on the receiver.

again the crowd wants to blame the QB instead of where the blame should go, I don't even like Rodgers, lost a lot of respect for him, but our problems are less Rodgers and more about a decline in OL talent and WR.

[Drj820]

has Rodgers been perfect? No, far from it.

Has any 38 year old in the history of the league done well with the a bottom 3 receiving core in the entire league and OL problems? No, they all look bad. Every single one of them throughout the history of the game.

[Labrev]

Gonna make this post as a catch-all reply to the idea that more Jones and Dillon touches isn't the solution because defenses aren't worried about the pass so they are playing the run and stopping it.

1.) No, they are by and large *not* stopping it. NYG loaded the box regularly, but no, they were not stopping it. We stopped it ourselves because our auto-response was "stacked box = pass." And in previous years, that strategy was sound. This year, we are not equipped to do that.

WAS wasn't stopping it, either, we were just not running up the middle because we didn't want to run into their stud DTs, Payne and Allen, which was a reasonable strategy. We had to do it from time to time, because you can't wholesale abandon inside runs, and it made our ypc look worse than it was, as did the fact that a lot of run plays were replaced with short passes.

In lieu of runs up the middle, we ran outside. That run was very effective. We ran it several times and WAS had *no* answer for it. There was no justification for getting away from that outside run. It was working great.

NYJ did "stop" (read: stymie enough for us to abandon) our run. What should we have done but abandon the run? Well, what did NYG do when *we* stymied Saquon? They... gave the ball to Saquon. Then he had the long run from the wildcat. It also helped set up the offense to move the ball in other ways.

A running game requires patience, which leads me to my next point:


2.) We have skewed expectations/double-standards when it comes to running versus passing:

We don't give up on passing when some plays go incomplete, we see that as an acceptable cost for trying to get the passing game going; this is the result of having an amazing pass offense for years.

Yet our attitude towards the run is the total opposite. If the run results in several plays for not much, nothing, or losses, we throw our hands up and say, "it's not working!" and abandon it.

A running game often looks like: 2, 4, 1, 3, -2, 5, 2, -4, 2, 5, 4, 3, 50, 2, 4, 7, 1, 13, 4, 6, 22, 9, 6, 7. But we haven't learned that patience. We stop after about ten plays of the above and never reach that 50, we so badly crave that long pass that will "spark" the offense when it isn't "working."

[Yoop]

If Turner was so good why did he just get $2.5M on a 1 year deal from the Broncos? I told yall the day we signed im that bum wasnt worth more than $4M and that was being extremely generous.

I agree Jones earned his contract but the minute they drafted Dillon you cant keep Jones. Thats just wasting resources. Youve either got a 2nd round pick on the benc or a $20M back on the bench. Dumb.

I dont think everything Gute as done is worthless. He as gotten some high end talent. However, outside of the stars he misses so often its unsustainable as I have said for years and now we are seeing the fruits of that. To make matter worse the contracts are really bad. I got no problem keeping Lewis if we had cap space but we owe future years so why are we paying a run blocking TE who is 38 and has no value as a pass catcher $4M? No one is paying that for him. So many poor contracts since hes taken over.

So, you say that a team should not have two good RBs? What happens when one gets injured, which will happen? I really like Dillon, but the Packers do not play to his strengths. Actually, they don't play to Jones' strengths either. They don't seem to want to run the ball.

You find a mid round RB to be a backup. What do you need two highly invested RBs for?

the same reason you keep a blocking TE, Lafluer brought a more balanced attack type offense, with that comes the need for players that fit that profile, but ya still need to pass the ball, Gutes most glaring failure is not supplying Rodgers with better catchers, and using a 2nd rounder on Dillon is no excuse for not getting them

[Yoop]

Gonna make this post as a catch-all reply to the idea that more Jones and Dillon touches isn't the solution because defenses aren't worried about the pass so they are playing the run and stopping it.

1.) No, they are by and large *not* stopping it. NYG loaded the box regularly, but no, they were not stopping it. We stopped it ourselves because our auto-response was "stacked box = pass." And in previous years, that strategy was sound. This year, we are not equipped to do that.

WAS wasn't stopping it, either, we were just not running up the middle because we didn't want to run into their stud DTs, Payne and Allen, which was a reasonable strategy. We had to do it from time to time, because you can't wholesale abandon inside runs, and it made our ypc look worse than it was, as did the fact that a lot of run plays were replaced with short passes.

In lieu of runs up the middle, we ran outside. That run was very effective. We ran it several times and WAS had *no* answer for it. There was no justification for getting away from that outside run. It was working great.

NYJ did "stop" (read: stymie enough for us to abandon) our run. What should we have done but abandon the run? Well, what did NYG do when *we* stymied Saquon? They... gave the ball to Saquon. Then he had the long run from the wildcat. It also helped set up the offense to move the ball in other ways.

A running game requires patience, which leads me to my next point:


2.) We have skewed expectations/double-standards when it comes to running versus passing:

We don't give up on passing when some plays go incomplete, we see that as an acceptable cost for trying to get the passing game going; this is the result of having an amazing pass offense for years.

Yet our attitude towards the run is the total opposite. If the run results in several plays for not much, nothing, or losses, we throw our hands up and say, "it's not working!" and abandon it.

A running game often looks like: 2, 4, 1, 3, -2, 5, 2, -4, 2, 5, 4, 3, 50, 2, 4, 7, 1, 13, 4, 6, 22, 9, 6, 7. But we haven't learned that patience. We stop after about ten plays of the above and never reach that 50, we so badly crave that long pass that will "spark" the offense when it isn't "working."

for the last two games our RB ypc average was about 2 yrds, Lafluer opts out of the run when it's not getting good first or 2nd down yardage, and we have had those issues in other games too, just going off ypc average doesn't tell the whole story, at times the run just wasn't getting down and distance success.

also our coaches are not idiots, they know beyond a doubt just as I do that continuing to try and run and not moving the chains, sends us to the bench and eliminates the hope of improving the passing, we have to continue to try and do that, and run touches takes a pass snap away, we used Jones mostly as a receiver Sunday, but washington saw that coming and other then the big gainers shut him down for minimal gain.

we lack pass catchers, and the ol blocking has been very inconsistent

a couple outside runs that got yards against others that didn't, does not equate to consistency.

seriously what about our RB's leading the league with yards after contact don't you understand, our RB's will be dead if Lafluer did what you ask.

[Pckfn23]

for the last two games our RB ypc average was about 2 yrds,

It wasn't.

[Yoop]

for the last two games our RB ypc average was about 2 yrds,

It wasn't.

well it sure wasn't much more then that, our RB's are hit by the time they get to the los, they tend to break from that hit and get a few or more yrds, not the last two weeks though.

[Pckfn23]

for the last two games our RB ypc average was about 2 yrds,

It wasn't.

well it sure wasn't much more then that, our RB's are hit by the time they get to the los, they tend to break from that hit and get a few or more yrds, not the last two weeks though.

It was at least 50% more than you claim. You based your entire statement off a large exaggeration. We had some really good designed runs last week and completely got away from it. We simply are not playing to pir strengths and Aaron Jone is our greatest strength on offense.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... vanced.htm

Yards before contact per attempt. Neither of our RBS are in the worst 20.

[lupedafiasco]

So, you say that a team should not have two good RBs? What happens when one gets injured, which will happen? I really like Dillon, but the Packers do not play to his strengths. Actually, they don't play to Jones' strengths either. They don't seem to want to run the ball.

You find a mid round RB to be a backup. What do you need two highly invested RBs for?

the same reason you keep a blocking TE, Lafluer brought a more balanced attack type offense, with that comes the need for players that fit that profile, but ya still need to pass the ball, Gutes most glaring failure is not supplying Rodgers with better catchers, and using a 2nd rounder on Dillon is no excuse for not getting them

The blocking TE thing is so overblown. Sure Lewis is a good blocker but he is absolutely useless in the passing game and for an offense that wants to make everything look the same and marry the run with the pass you need a TE that is well rounded and can do it all. He doesnt need to be great necessarily. Lewis is so unathletic at this point teams just let him leak out for free because its so easy to rally to him and tackle him. I would bet my bottom dollar if we didnt sign him this year not a single team would have offered him a deal.

[Labrev]

for the last two games our RB ypc average was about 2 yrds

As established earlier, that isn't true.

But if it was true... well yoop, it's as a wise man once said (incidentally, at the exact same time/place you said the above!):

just going off ypc average doesn't tell the whole story

also our coaches are not idiots

They are not "idiots" in the truest sense but are certainly not above doing idiotic things. They did bench Nijman to play Turner at LT in the divisional playoff game last year and may have just cost us that game for it. This year, they tried to make Jake Hanson a thing.

Oh, and they REFUSED to play Zach Tom despite him looking very good from the jump, until they were forced to play him yesterday and... whaddya know, he looked great!!

So yes, our coaches *can* be blind to good ideas, an example of which came just two days ago.

our RB's will be dead if Lafluer did what you ask.

This was literally the exact same defense for McCarthy's refusal to make Jones a bigger part of the offense -- he's too smol, he will break in half!!

I had hoped those days were over when we hired LaFleur, but alas.

[Yoop]

It wasn't.

well it sure wasn't much more then that, our RB's are hit by the time they get to the los, they tend to break from that hit and get a few or more yrds, not the last two weeks though.

It was at least 50% more than you claim. You based your entire statement off a large exaggeration. We had some really good designed runs last week and completely got away from it. We simply are not playing to pir strengths and Aaron Jone is our greatest strength on offense.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... vanced.htm

Yards before contact per attempt. Neither of our RBS are in the worst 20.

OK now there ranked 12th and 14th, but earlier ( first 2 or 3 games Jones was #3 I remember reading that

[Yoop]

for the last two games our RB ypc average was about 2 yrds

As established earlier, that isn't true.

But if it was true... well yoop, it's as a wise man once said (incidentally, at the exact same time/place you said the above!):

just going off ypc average doesn't tell the whole story

also our coaches are not idiots

They are not "idiots" in the truest sense but are certainly not above doing idiotic things. They did bench Nijman to play Turner at LT in the divisional playoff game last year and may have just cost us that game for it. This year, they tried to make Jake Hanson a thing.

Oh, and they REFUSED to play Zach Tom despite him looking very good from the jump, until they were forced to play him yesterday and... whaddya know, he looked great!!

So yes, our coaches *can* be blind to good ideas, an example of which came just two days ago.

our RB's will be dead if Lafluer did what you ask.

This was literally the exact same defense for McCarthy's refusal to make Jones a bigger part of the offense -- he's too smol, he will break in half!!

I had hoped those days were over when we hired LaFleur, but alas.

so then with that in mind, are/where both coaches wrong, is it not true that across the league coaches try to rest the RB's as much as possible? I use to go crazy when McCarthy would limit Lacy, bugs me now when Lafluer limits Dillon and Jones, but I know the reason why, take Jones or Dillon out of this equation and we have almost zero offensive impact players, part of the problem we have now is every DC in the league knows it, the issue of using them more is that it becomes even more predictable, Matt and Rodgers both know this, and it's why there are trying to improve the pass.

the drops and miscues, are killing there efforts, Watkins can't be counted on to be healthy, the burner Watson can't stay out of some sort of rehab, Lazard is what he's always been, slow and rarely separates, Cobb not healthy, again.
If Guty wants to salvage the season he needs to trade for a much more seasoned receiver that can stay on the field, that will provide help for Rodgers and also help our RB's

[Pckfn23]

[Realist]

23 continues to not like the play of 12. Stay tuned for the narrative going forward. Post after post.