From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
go count the drops per game, specially the drive killing ones, PFF had us with 11 prior to the comodoors, which I'am sure is well low, I had 21, and Sunday had 5 obvious ones more, 7 actually, if a receiver gets two hands on the ball and doesn't catch it, then it's a drop in my book.
It's not so much defending Rodgers, hell not many here even like him, but I watch the games, I see the drops, I see players not tracking the ball, and stunts untouched flushing him or causing him to get rid of the ball.
Have you counted the number of bad passes? Even those the WR catches that are off target? Even a simple slant to Tonyan last game. He had to go low to get it. Caught it, but broke stride. Could have gotten 6-8 more yards if pass had been accurate. And how about the non passes? When a WR is open and he doesn't make the throw?
I'm not saying he has a HOF receiving group, but he has more than you give them credit. Jones is really good. Dillon is good. Tonyan is really good. Then you have 3 or 4 WR that could be a #2 or #3 on many teams. That's a lot of targets. He should be doing better, but he isnt.
More of his passive-aggressive finger-pointing BS. Isn't this the same innuendo crap we saw when the TT-MM era was drawing to a close?
Rodgers had to take matters into his own hands. He could have continued to carry talentless teams to the playoffs and MM and TT would still be here. He forced out TT and then MM. He should be praised for that. And here we are again with a bad HC and GM he needs to force out. I think hes going for the trifecta and get Murphy fired to as he should be.
How's that list of your top 5 GMs coming along? You remember, the ones whose consistent draft success is leaps and bounds better than Gutekunst?
Here is the drafting success of those 7 GMs:
image.png (63.88 KiB) Viewed 602 times
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
go count the drops per game, specially the drive killing ones, PFF had us with 11 prior to the comodoors, which I'am sure is well low, I had 21, and Sunday had 5 obvious ones more, 7 actually, if a receiver gets two hands on the ball and doesn't catch it, then it's a drop in my book.
It's not so much defending Rodgers, hell not many here even like him, but I watch the games, I see the drops, I see players not tracking the ball, and stunts untouched flushing him or causing him to get rid of the ball.
Have you counted the number of bad passes? Even those the WR catches that are off target? Even a simple slant to Tonyan last game. He had to go low to get it. Caught it, but broke stride. Could have gotten 6-8 more yards if pass had been accurate. And how about the non passes? When a WR is open and he doesn't make the throw?
I'm not saying he has a HOF receiving group, but he has more than you give them credit. Jones is really good. Dillon is good. Tonyan is really good. Then you have 3 or 4 WR that could be a #2 or #3 on many teams. That's a lot of targets. He should be doing better, but he isnt.
Dillon had a drop last week and the week before, Jones had a drop, but caught 10 others, 9 for 11 yrds or so and 1 for 50 plus, the 9 for 10 yrds should tell you that defenses are keying on Jones, the 50 yrder was a spectaculer catch and throw.
if your honest you'll realize there havn't been that many wide open receivers, and every QB misses open receivers, people act like thats a Rodgers exclusive,
Tonyan, Lazard, and Jones are the most consistent receivers Rodgers has to work with, Jones is drapped, and the other to struggle beating single coverage.
people look for anything possible to blame Rodgers
Rodgers had to take matters into his own hands. He could have continued to carry talentless teams to the playoffs and MM and TT would still be here. He forced out TT and then MM. He should be praised for that. And here we are again with a bad HC and GM he needs to force out. I think hes going for the trifecta and get Murphy fired to as he should be.
How's that list of your top 5 GMs coming along? You remember, the ones whose consistent draft success is leaps and bounds better than Gutekunst?
Here is the drafting success of those 7 GMs:
image.png
what does cAV stand for? this doesn't seem right, thought Jenkins was a PBer as a rookie
How's that list of your top 5 GMs coming along? You remember, the ones whose consistent draft success is leaps and bounds better than Gutekunst?
Here is the drafting success of those 7 GMs:
image.png
what does cAV stand for? this doesn't seem right, thought Jenkins was a PBer as a rookie
Bean nailed it with 3 PBers his first year
What doesn't seem right? This is career approximate value of the players drafted.
Jenkins was draft in 2019, he is the 2019 PBer.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Rodgers had to take matters into his own hands. He could have continued to carry talentless teams to the playoffs and MM and TT would still be here. He forced out TT and then MM. He should be praised for that. And here we are again with a bad HC and GM he needs to force out. I think hes going for the trifecta and get Murphy fired to as he should be.
How's that list of your top 5 GMs coming along? You remember, the ones whose consistent draft success is leaps and bounds better than Gutekunst?
While Gutey does have some hits. I don’t think Gutey has been a good drafter. He has found some gold on the wire and in the UDFA pile. But his strategy as a whole doesn’t make much sense. We have Jones, yet we spend a 2 on Dillon when we needed a WR. We sign Reed, have slayton and Kenny, and spend a 1 on Wyatt. Etc etc. we need a receiver we draft Love. He whiffs at TE. 3rd round each year has been a total disaster.
Yes he’s drafted some stars, but drafting in the first couple rounds better have high percentages
Is Gute only drafting who he thinks is the BPA rather than drafting for need?
I think it's worth delving into Rodgers' recent statements a bit further, particularly this one:
While Rodgers did not mention any one play in particular, he could have been talking about that play when he said: “There has to be something inside that has the accountability for performance where we’re just having way too many detail mistakes.”
“It could be a total wrong route or it could be a wrong stem or it could be the release, we’re just not good enough to overcome some of those things right now,” Rodgers added.
Accountability for performance. Absolutely.
Curious there was no mention of passes thrown behind players or at their feet. Nor any mention of misreading defenses that manipulated him into very predictable pre-snap calls that are easily defended. Not even a whisper about pick-six throws or ill timed indecisive 3+ second sacks that took points off the board.
Nope, it's all about the receiver mistakes. You see it from him during games with the glares and "what the f are we doing" post-play lip reading sequences. You see it when the coaches try and analyze the plays on the iPads with him on the bench. The disinterested I-already-know-what-you-have-to-say-because-I'm-smarter-than-everybody moments. We've all been witness to it but dismiss them because it's just Aaron being Aaron.
Then take a look at this quote further into the Demovsky piece:
Yet Rodgers insisted he believes this season can be salvaged, and he believes that should be the universal belief as well.
“I mean, it should be,” Rodgers said. “Unless they don’t think they’re the right person for the job. I think I’m the right person for the job. So, might have to ask them.”
More of his passive-aggressive finger-pointing BS. Isn't this the same innuendo crap we saw when the TT-MM era was drawing to a close?
<sigh>
Look, I still firmly believe Rodgers gives this team the best chance for success. I do. But for them to achieve success, Rodgers is gonna need to get off his high horse and show some culpability to why this offense is struggling so mightily. You know, like f'ing real leaders do. Until that happens, this offense, and team, are going nowhere.
Yeah I agree 100%. It would be refreshing just to hear him say "I need to play better and I've missed some throws I wish I could have back"
I have no doubt that some of what he's saying is true, but true leaders lead by example. If I were a younger player and he threw the ball at my feet and then I hear these comments, I'd be more pissed than inspired.
I've heard him say on more on more than one occasion in the past where he wasn't happy with his play.
How's that list of your top 5 GMs coming along? You remember, the ones whose consistent draft success is leaps and bounds better than Gutekunst?
While Gutey does have some hits. I don’t think Gutey has been a good drafter. He has found some gold on the wire and in the UDFA pile. But his strategy as a whole doesn’t make much sense. We have Jones, yet we spend a 2 on Dillon when we needed a WR. We sign Reed, have slayton and Kenny, and spend a 1 on Wyatt. Etc etc. we need a receiver we draft Love. He whiffs at TE. 3rd round each year has been a total disaster.
Yes he’s drafted some stars, but drafting in the first couple rounds better have high percentages
Is Gute only drafting who he thinks is the BPA rather than drafting for need?
Gutey drafts to agitate and irritate the Packers Huddle chat board. Happens every year.
Rodgers had to take matters into his own hands. He could have continued to carry talentless teams to the playoffs and MM and TT would still be here. He forced out TT and then MM. He should be praised for that. And here we are again with a bad HC and GM he needs to force out. I think hes going for the trifecta and get Murphy fired to as he should be.
How's that list of your top 5 GMs coming along? You remember, the ones whose consistent draft success is leaps and bounds better than Gutekunst?
Here is the drafting success of those 7 GMs:
image.png
Would be curious to see that adjusted by draft position. It should also reflect who you could have taken with the picks. More of a reflection of what you had to work with. In 2018 the Bills (beane) had the 7th pick and took QB Allen. A great pick as it was deemed risky. Gute had the 14th pick, which he traded back with the Saints, then back up to take Jaire. Netting us an extra 1st rd pick next year. I didn't like either trade at the time, but liked the final result. If you look at the players taken at the saints pick and later, there were good names, but not as good as Jaire (and yes I am biased). Gute absolutely killed it on that day.
We sign Reed, have slayton and Kenny, and spend a 1 on Wyatt.
After the last decade of our DL, I don't get how anyone can be upset about drafting Wyatt while having your other starter on the last year of this deal and signed a cheap stop gap starter to a 1 year contract and had a 5th rounder who looked maybe okay on a few snaps.
Our 3 DL next year would have been Kenny, and unproven 5th rounder in Slayton and ???. I mean isn't this what we ragging on him for at WR right now?
We sign Reed, have slayton and Kenny, and spend a 1 on Wyatt.
After the last decade of our DL, I don't get how anyone can be upset about drafting Wyatt while having your other starter on the last year of this deal and signed a cheap stop gap starter to a 1 year contract and had a 5th rounder who looked maybe okay on a few snaps.
Our 3 DL next year would have been Kenny, and unproven 5th rounder in Slayton and ???. I mean isn't this what we ragging on him for at WR right now?
Well you have Kenny who is like having Adams at WR.
And you have some promising young guys at DL.
At WR you lost Adams, and have literally nothing…so yes, I think it would have been better to address the WR position.
We did do what should have been done previously as WR, but there was a more glaring issue to address
We sign Reed, have slayton and Kenny, and spend a 1 on Wyatt.
After the last decade of our DL, I don't get how anyone can be upset about drafting Wyatt while having your other starter on the last year of this deal and signed a cheap stop gap starter to a 1 year contract and had a 5th rounder who looked maybe okay on a few snaps.
Our 3 DL next year would have been Kenny, and unproven 5th rounder in Slayton and ???. I mean isn't this what we ragging on him for at WR right now?
Well you have Kenny who is like having Adams at WR.
And you have some promising young guys at DL.
At WR you lost Adams, and have literally nothing…so yes, I think it would have been better to address the WR position.
We did do what should have been done previously as WR, but there was a more glaring issue to address
What promising young guys? In 2023 you have Tedderall Slayton to play two spots under contract, and I'd say hard to argue he was promising. And yes, DL probably would have been better with Kenny and not nothing like WR, but that's what we've had since 2016 and we've been awful.
And I mean we addressed the WR position what, 6 picks later? No WR's went between 28 and 34. Soooo like I don't get your complaint on this specific point. Seems like you just want to complain, but are doing so without consistency.
We screwed the pooch on WR well before April, nothing we could do would fix it for 2022 (short of trading for like an AJ Brown) with our picks and cap space. Even trading up for Olave, we'd be better, but our WR's still wouldn't be good this year by any stretch of imagination, that wouldn't have been a magic fix. And we probably wouldn't have gone that high, maybe moved up to get Treylon Burks who's been as injured, if not more, than Watson.
After the last decade of our DL, I don't get how anyone can be upset about drafting Wyatt while having your other starter on the last year of this deal and signed a cheap stop gap starter to a 1 year contract and had a 5th rounder who looked maybe okay on a few snaps.
Our 3 DL next year would have been Kenny, and unproven 5th rounder in Slayton and ???. I mean isn't this what we ragging on him for at WR right now?
Well you have Kenny who is like having Adams at WR.
And you have some promising young guys at DL.
At WR you lost Adams, and have literally nothing…so yes, I think it would have been better to address the WR position.
We did do what should have been done previously as WR, but there was a more glaring issue to address
What promising young guys? In 2023 you have Tedderall Slayton to play two spots under contract, and I'd say hard to argue he was promising. And yes, DL probably would have been better with Kenny and not nothing like WR, but that's what we've had since 2016 and we've been awful.
And I mean we addressed the WR position what, 6 picks later? No WR's went between 28 and 34. Soooo like I don't get your complaint on this specific point. Seems like you just want to complain, but are doing so without consistency.
We screwed the pooch on WR well before April, nothing we could do would fix it for 2022 (short of trading for like an AJ Brown) with our picks and cap space. Even trading up for Olave, we'd be better, but our WR's still wouldn't be good this year by any stretch of imagination, that wouldn't have been a magic fix. And we probably wouldn't have gone that high, maybe moved up to get Treylon Burks who's been as injured, if not more, than Watson.
It’s you who is complaining just to complain..about my post. A post that pointed out guteys failures in roster building. You pretend as if nothing could have been done at WR. We had two first rounds picks lol. We could have gotten whoever we wanted at WR with those picks.
DL could easily resign average Lowry, we have TJ Slayton, and Kenny. The position could have been addressed in round 2 or 3. In my opinion, sorry if you don’t approve, my priority for the draft would have been to get a wide receiver that was ready to contribute.
After the last decade of our DL, I don't get how anyone can be upset about drafting Wyatt while having your other starter on the last year of this deal and signed a cheap stop gap starter to a 1 year contract and had a 5th rounder who looked maybe okay on a few snaps.
Our 3 DL next year would have been Kenny, and unproven 5th rounder in Slayton and ???. I mean isn't this what we ragging on him for at WR right now?
Well you have Kenny who is like having Adams at WR.
And you have some promising young guys at DL.
At WR you lost Adams, and have literally nothing…so yes, I think it would have been better to address the WR position.
We did do what should have been done previously as WR, but there was a more glaring issue to address
What promising young guys? In 2023 you have Tedderall Slayton to play two spots under contract, and I'd say hard to argue he was promising. And yes, DL probably would have been better with Kenny and not nothing like WR, but that's what we've had since 2016 and we've been awful.
And I mean we addressed the WR position what, 6 picks later? No WR's went between 28 and 34. Soooo like I don't get your complaint on this specific point. Seems like you just want to complain, but are doing so without consistency.
We screwed the pooch on WR well before April, nothing we could do would fix it for 2022 (short of trading for like an AJ Brown) with our picks and cap space. Even trading up for Olave, we'd be better, but our WR's still wouldn't be good this year by any stretch of imagination, that wouldn't have been a magic fix. And we probably wouldn't have gone that high, maybe moved up to get Treylon Burks who's been as injured, if not more, than Watson.
like your brother I also liked Sky and Dotson.
I thought Wyatt would be more ready to play consistently, but DL Rookies often struggle.
I've wanted a excellent lber for years, Campbell became that guy, Walker has Berry written all over him the same way Mike Smith and Pettin wanted Gary and convinced Guty to pick him, Walker is the slot I'd have used on a WR, if Barnes was healthy he would be taking Walkers run down snaps, just my opinion, Barnes might even be better in coverage,.
I think we had all hoped for more, at the same time, no other WR's went between 22 and 34. So not like we missed on anyone, given we didn't already move up.
I think we had all hoped for more, at the same time, no other WR's went between 22 and 34. So not like we missed on anyone, given we didn't already move up.
It was unfortunate we couldn't use the 2 firsts we had to move up and take a WR last spring. We don't know if Gute tried but couldn't find a dance partner...
I think we had all hoped for more, at the same time, no other WR's went between 22 and 34. So not like we missed on anyone, given we didn't already move up.
I neglected to say I would have used slot 22 and a 2nd.
I can't remember who was available, memory says Dotson went late teens, I think I would have done that.
Doubs seemed like that type player, he just can't (yet) hold onto the ball.
the best route to even come close to replacing Adams was some other FA receiver, or a trade for one, but the price tag doesn't come cheap.
I think we had all hoped for more, at the same time, no other WR's went between 22 and 34. So not like we missed on anyone, given we didn't already move up.
I neglected to say I would have used slot 22 and a 2nd.
I can't remember who was available, memory says Dotson went late teens, I think I would have done that.
Doubs seemed like that type player, he just can't (yet) hold onto the ball.
the best route to even come close to replacing Adams was some other FA receiver, or a trade for one, but the price tag doesn't come cheap.
Yeah, likely just would have been Dotson and Burks, neither I really would have wanted to trade up for. Other than Drake London, i would have been willing to trade up for Wilson, Olave and Williams (he wouldn't be helping right now at all either). But Olave and Wilson went 10 and 11. We probably would have been looking at 22 and 28.
I think our forum would have erupted if we traded up to 16 for Dotson, everyone here hated him and his very poor athleticism.
And probably would have had to be 15 even, Washington already traded back from 11, doubt they would have done that twice.
This discussion is why I made a "what would you have done"-thread right after the draft: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=999
The appeal of doing this now though is that people's opinions are still fresh (and maybe strongly felt). And there is no benefit of hindsight, whereas in the future, people will forget and/or can claim they were big proponents of the picks we made or other team's rookies that are enjoying success, while also acting like they opposed the players that have not panned out for us or other teams.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
I think we had all hoped for more, at the same time, no other WR's went between 22 and 34. So not like we missed on anyone, given we didn't already move up.
I neglected to say I would have used slot 22 and a 2nd.
I can't remember who was available, memory says Dotson went late teens, I think I would have done that.
Doubs seemed like that type player, he just can't (yet) hold onto the ball.
the best route to even come close to replacing Adams was some other FA receiver, or a trade for one, but the price tag doesn't come cheap.
Yeah, likely just would have been Dotson and Burks, neither I really would have wanted to trade up for. Other than Drake London, i would have been willing to trade up for Wilson, Olave and Williams (he wouldn't be helping right now at all either). But Olave and Wilson went 10 and 11. We probably would have been looking at 22 and 28.
I think our forum would have erupted if we traded up to 16 for Dotson, everyone here hated him and his very poor athleticism.
And probably would have had to be 15 even, Washington already traded back from 11, doubt they would have done that twice.
true, you'd have to Love Dotson to trade up for him, even though he's projected to get 800 plus yrds as a rookie and possibly 10 tds from one site I saw
we all liked London, Olave, Wilson, even would have taken the rehabing Williams, most of us thought we could get Burks with the 28 slot, but he went earlier to, Teams will spend huge draft resources on these top prospect cause not to is to gamble on the Watsons, Picketts and Pierces, sometimes that gamble works, in our case, not so far, with the cost of quality vet receivers, a reach up to low teens for one seems merited to me, Doubs may solve some issues, but he has to catch the balls, outstanding pick if he does.
