What to do with Aaron (with season now in dumpster)?

[Yoop]

blah blah blah, I will not take a post like your seriously, sorry, try again.

Do you often find that sticking your fingers in your ears like a 2-year-old makes people want to talk to you?

your comments are what I'd expect from a 2 yr old, did you watch Rodgers running for first downs, if receivers are open and Rodger see's them prior to pressure he will throw the ball to them versus running, on average we see receiver drop between 3 and 4 passes a game ( 5 or 6 in one game alone), and no rookie QB would do better with what Rodgers has dealt with this year.

what we are seeing now is the cumulative affect of a inconsistent OL and substandard receivers over the course of 9 games, Rodgers is no spring chicken, but this stuff would affect any QB

[dsr]

your comments are what I'd expect from a 2 yr old, did you watch Rodgers running for first downs, if receivers are open and Rodger see's them prior to pressure he will throw the ball to them versus running, on average we see receiver drop between 3 and 4 passes a game ( 5 or 6 in one game alone), and no rookie QB would do better with what Rodgers has dealt with this year.

what we are seeing now is the cumulative affect of a inconsistent OL and substandard receivers over the course of 9 games, Rodgers is no spring chicken, but this stuff would affect any QB

Just like in politics, an attitude of "I am right and you are stupid" will not win support. I am (or at least was) willing to discuss this like grown-ups.

But for what it's worth, I agree that a rookie QB would probably not be better than Rodgers this season; but I expect a better benchmark for Rodgers than to be as good as a rookie. If we wanted a rookie, we could have paid a rookie.

[go pak go]

blah blah blah, I will not take a post like your seriously, sorry, try again.

Do you often find that sticking your fingers in your ears like a 2-year-old makes people want to talk to you?

and no rookie QB would do better with what Rodgers has dealt with this year.

what we are seeing now is the cumulative affect of a inconsistent OL and substandard receivers over the course of 9 games, Rodgers is no spring chicken, but this stuff would affect any QB

Couple of thoughts:

1. If your bar is the best player in the game "to do better than a rookie QB" than it just shows how low the bar has gotten this year. Comments like this aren't being made if 12 is playing well.

2. Whether Rodgers still has it is one thing. But the clear thing we are seeing is the Packers aren't setup for a Rodgers successful team. We were able to squeeze it out in 2020 and 2021 but the 2022 Packers are not fit as a team for Rodgers's playing style. Overall, I just think 12 in this stage of his career is a bad fit on a team who is trying to pickup and glue the pieces with cap and draft capital constraints. It is best for both parties to move on after this season. We can't support Rodgers with the right team at this point of his career along with our depleted resources.

3. The thought of bringing back Rodgers was fine. Like I understand it. I thought we could go on a version of 2019 / Brady, Brees type offense of running the ball and Rodgers being an effective leader and game manager. But what we are seeing is Rodgers is not good at this role. Rodgers relies too much on player chemistry and knowledge of what he saw on a play in 2015 and so it must be add-libbed here.

I don't believe Rodgers is a high level pocket passer. I don't think he will ever succeed in that role. That role requires using the middle of the field and consistent dinking and dunking and that is just not Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers is a guy who likes to evade the pocket and throw low risk throws on the sidelines. This requires ad-libbing and backyard ball mentality. This is why he relies so heavily on chemistry, free plays, and getting out of the pocket. This year, Rodgers has seen a reduction in his legs and also doesn't have the chemistry so he gets trigger shy.

Rodgers has always had such insane superman abilities that he didn't have to be mechanically sound. Now that those are going away, he is struggling more and more. Add in the fact you remove his security blanket to move the chains on a consistent basis and you really see him struggling.

I thought Rodgers could adjust closer to 2019 version. 2019 he showed can take the same unit as 2018 and use it effective enough. Certainly not a top 5 QB but certain a top 8 to 12 QB which is what I was hoping for this year. Instead what we are seeing is him not letting go of what he wants to do and it is failing.

I don't believe Jordan Love would do better with this offense, but at the same point, I don't think we would see much of a drop off either. Because if we are being honest, the bar is already incredibly low.

[Crazylegs Starks]

I said it before Rodgers was extended and I'll say it again: If they couldn't make it to the Super Bowl with Rodgers in 2019, 2020, or 2021, there was no point in bringing him back for 2022 and 2023. They had a three year window and failed; this year should have been the start of the rebuild.

[Labrev]

extremes, hey Labrev if it bothers you so much that Rodgers is our QB send a email where it might give you some pause, I'am sure Murphy, Gutekunst or even Lafluer would love to hear from some college kid on how to solve our problems
teams play conservative in PO games, go watch any of them, they start that way and usually stay that way most of the game, when they figure out how a defense is playing then often they attack, Rodgers and Brady etc are not that much different in that respect, and if the defense is able to adjust to stop the attack they become conservative again if they can't over come the defensive adjustment.
and who the hell did we have to attack with last year, Jones and Adams, they swarmed Adams, but two offensive threats isn't going to strike fear in a defense.

again, why argue about something you have zero control over, if your not going anywhere then you need to accept the obvious, Rodgers is here till he doesn't want to be, the people you and others here defend saw to that 5 years ago, and again just last year

I've been out of college for years. That was so long ago that I've since completed post-grad.

I had to hear about Justin Jefferson nonstop, and kvetching about the Gary pick -- even when they were totally irrelevant to the topic of the thread! I guess I learned from the master (except now I need to bring it up in every other thread too).

[Drj820]

To be fair, Yoop was right about Gary. He was the 12th overall pick and has given us 1.5 seasons of productivity in 4 years. Not exactly a success.

[bud fox]

This speaks to the worst receiving group of all time. Argument should be over.

They either don't run the right route or lose on every route.

[Drj820]

This speaks to the worst receiving group of all time. Argument should be over.

They either don't run the right route or lose on every route.

The QB is the wrong person to point the finger at when you give him such a terrible group to toss the ball to. I do not believe any QB would look good with that cess pool.

However, once you decide to give a qb that trash, you really cant pay the qb 50 million dollars. Its a total waste. So GM should be canned and Rodgers should be benched to see what we have in love before we get a premium draft pick

[Labrev]

To be fair, Yoop was right about Gary. He was the 12th overall pick and has given us 1.5 seasons of productivity in 4 years. Not exactly a success.

[Yoop]

To be fair, Yoop was right about Gary. He was the 12th overall pick and has given us 1.5 seasons of productivity in 4 years. Not exactly a success.

of course I was right, Guty has been so concerned with the future he pissed all over today, who the hell uses slot 12 on a project at a position he just fortified through UFA, that had to be one of the dumbest picks I could imagine, same with that horse &%$@ trade up for Love, meanwhile Adams is almost out the door and we have basically zilch at the position after him, both drafts had plenty of WR's available.
It's amazing that Rodgers didn't sit 2 years ago after that idiocy, you and others here will support this crap, I seen it to often in the past.

Rodgers play the last couple years, over coming the lack of offensive talent got Guty a extension, Guty owes Rodgers big time, minus Rodger and this would be Guty's last year as our GM, and Murphy would be going with him.

I apologize for the college boy crack, I felt aggrieved and resented the way you and others dis honored the face of the franchise

[go pak go]

It's not often you see fans complain about a team's legitimate best player when taking into account a draft position used to select the said player.

You guys are p*ssing on Guty not providing for Rodgers and his legacy. Shoot. I think the biggest person here who should be p*ssed is Gary at Rodgers and the Punting team who tooko away at Gary's legacy. We should be talking about how Rashan Gary willed a Packers team to the next round and who knows what happens to Gary's legacy in the Title Game and the SB.

But instead, Gary's dominant performance (followed up by more dominant performance in 2022) is covered up because the Punt team erases Gary's incredible 4th down stop and the MVP can't generate any 1st downs to save his life when we needed them most.

That's pretty amassing.

[LombardiTime]

This speaks to the worst receiving group of all time. Argument should be over.

They either don't run the right route or lose on every route.

Adaptable, patient, easy-going, nurturing, resilient. Adjectives few would ever use to describe Aaron Charles Rodgers.

Thus, in what should be a surprise to nobody, Rodgers has looked most productive this season when throwing to the veteran holdovers he is most comfortable with in Lazard, Cobb, and Tonyan.

Unfortunately, both Lazard and Cobb have missed time due to injury and Tonyan has not yet fully recovered from his ACL. Even when all three are good to go they put no fear in NFL defensive coordinators due to their athletic limitations.

To the extent the plan going into the season was to rely upon Rodgers throwing to 2nd, 4th, and 7th round rookies out of North Dakota St, Nevada, and Nebraska, respectively, that plan has failed spectacularly outside of Doubs inconsistent contributions.

And that failure should also surprise no one, as the soon to be 39 year-old/I don't do non-mandatory mini-camps Rodgers is particularly ill-suited to pair with rookies who have steep learning curves and no experience catching balls against high -level competition.

This does not mean that Watson, Doubs, or Toure may not be good Packers down the road, just that counting on them to contribute right away in 2022 was, at best, foolhardy.

To the extent that either Sammy Watkins or Amari Rodgers were supposed to be key contributors to the passing attack in 2022, whomever is responsible for making those decisions failed the franchise.

The poor production out of the Packers' 2022 receivers is primarily due to poor decision-making at the tight end and especially the wide receiver position but that poor decision making did not begin in 2022. Instead, it goes back to at least 2018 when Gutekunst became the GM.

Looking forward, Cobb, Lazard, and Tonyan (and Lewis and Watkins) are likely all gone after the season.

So, if Rodgers returns to collect his more than 50 million in salary from Green Bay in 2023, he will be without at least some of the targets he trusts the most and the expectation will be that he will assist the young receivers as they "grow" into professional football players.

Anyone confident in that plan?

The situation at wide receiver is currently a mess and it is hard to see it getting much better, with or without Rodgers at QB, in 2023.

[Labrev]

of course I was right, Guty has been so concerned with the future he pissed all over today, who the hell uses slot 12 on a project at a position he just fortified through UFA, that had to be one of the dumbest picks I could imagine, same with that horse &%$@ trade up for Love, meanwhile Adams is almost out the door and we have basically zilch at the position after him, both drafts had plenty of WR's available.

It's amassing that Rodgers didn't sit 2 years ago after that idiocy, you and others here will support this crap, I seen it to often in the past.

Well yoop, if it bothers you so much about who we have at WR, maybe you should email Murphy, Gute and LaFleur. I'am sure they would love to hear from some nursing home resident on how to solve our problems.

Why argue about something you have zero control over? Maybe you should just GET USE TO IT!!

[Yoop]

This speaks to the worst receiving group of all time. Argument should be over.

They either don't run the right route or lose on every route.

Adaptable, patient, easy-going, nurturing, resilient. Adjectives few would ever use to describe Aaron Charles Rodgers.

Thus, in what should be a surprise to nobody, Rodgers has looked most productive this season when throwing to the veteran holdovers he is most comfortable with in Lazard, Cobb, and Tonyan.

Unfortunately, both Lazard and Cobb have missed time due to injury and Tonyan has not yet fully recovered from his ACL. Even when all three are good to go they put no fear in NFL defensive coordinators due to their athletic limitations.

To the extent the plan going into the season was to rely upon Rodgers throwing to 2nd, 4th, and 7th round rookies out of North Dakota St, Nevada, and Nebraska, respectively, that plan has failed spectacularly outside of Doubs inconsistent contributions.

And that failure should also surprise no one, as the soon to be 39 year-old/I don't do non-mandatory mini-camps Rodgers is particularly ill-suited to pair with rookies who have steep learning curves and no experience catching balls against high -level competition.

This does not mean that Watson, Doubs, or Toure may not be good Packers down the road, just that counting on them to contribute right away in 2022 was, at best, foolhardy.

To the extent that either Sammy Watkins or Amari Rodgers were supposed to be key contributors to the passing attack in 2022, whomever is responsible for making those decisions failed the franchise.

The poor production out of the Packers' 2022 receivers is primarily due to poor decision-making at the tight end and especially the wide receiver position but that poor decision making did not begin in 2022. Instead, it goes back to at least 2018 when Gutekunst became the GM.

Looking forward, Cobb, Lazard, and Tonyan (and Lewis and Watkins) are likely all gone after the season.

So, if Rodgers returns to collect his more than 50 million in salary from Green Bay in 2023, he will be without at least some of the targets he trusts the most and the expectation will be that he will assist the young receivers as they "grow" into professional football players.

Anyone confident in that plan?

The situation at wide receiver is currently a mess and it is hard to see it getting much better, with or without Rodgers at QB, in 2023.

Great post, my thoughts, better explanation

Guty and to a smaller degree Ted, waited to long to bring in more ready to play receivers, not only because they where needed in 2017, but ever since, I believe in draft and develop, but 3 very raw mid rounders wasn't the answer in 2018, yep, we relied on old Cobb ( hasn't played a full season in years) same with Watkins, I love the way Lazard muscles in contested balls, but realistically he's a #2 or 3 on most rosters.

we lack a feature receiver that requires double coverage to stop, one that only makes 20 mil. ( or less)

Guty pacified Lafluers intended schemes by Picking Dillon and Dequara, Jenkins, And whomever the DC expressed a need for, Savage, Gary ,Alexander, Stokes, King, Jones, I'am sure I missed some, but at least one of those selections should have been for a receiver, or a TE, imo Guty hung Rodgers out to dry.

seems to be contagious, Ron Wolf said one of his biggest mistakes was not getting Favre better receivers, Ted seemed bound and determined not to repeat that, He chose a 2nd or 3rd round receiver 5 times in his first 9 years, then stopped, so Ted, like Ron it seems became more concerned with building up defense, and that has been the case with Gutekunst from the start, yes we need a good defense, but ya can't neglect the position that score points in the process.

I use to say I like to run the ball, still do, I like a good balance, but I also like to have the ability to go end to end in 5 plays for 6 points, in fact I like having that ability a lot more, when you can do that, you obviously have a easier time running the ball, and we had that to the degree that the Rodgers/Adams connection forced defenses to honor that and our 2 RB's gained almost a K each, just think what 2 guys like Adams could do, our offenses has seemed like one guy missing for half a decade.

Nice post Lombardi

[Drj820]

This speaks to the worst receiving group of all time. Argument should be over.

They either don't run the right route or lose on every route.

Adaptable, patient, easy-going, nurturing, resilient. Adjectives few would ever use to describe Aaron Charles Rodgers.

Thus, in what should be a surprise to nobody, Rodgers has looked most productive this season when throwing to the veteran holdovers he is most comfortable with in Lazard, Cobb, and Tonyan.

Unfortunately, both Lazard and Cobb have missed time due to injury and Tonyan has not yet fully recovered from his ACL. Even when all three are good to go they put no fear in NFL defensive coordinators due to their athletic limitations.

To the extent the plan going into the season was to rely upon Rodgers throwing to 2nd, 4th, and 7th round rookies out of North Dakota St, Nevada, and Nebraska, respectively, that plan has failed spectacularly outside of Doubs inconsistent contributions.

And that failure should also surprise no one, as the soon to be 39 year-old/I don't do non-mandatory mini-camps Rodgers is particularly ill-suited to pair with rookies who have steep learning curves and no experience catching balls against high -level competition.

This does not mean that Watson, Doubs, or Toure may not be good Packers down the road, just that counting on them to contribute right away in 2022 was, at best, foolhardy.

To the extent that either Sammy Watkins or Amari Rodgers were supposed to be key contributors to the passing attack in 2022, whomever is responsible for making those decisions failed the franchise.

The poor production out of the Packers' 2022 receivers is primarily due to poor decision-making at the tight end and especially the wide receiver position but that poor decision making did not begin in 2022. Instead, it goes back to at least 2018 when Gutekunst became the GM.

Looking forward, Cobb, Lazard, and Tonyan (and Lewis and Watkins) are likely all gone after the season.

So, if Rodgers returns to collect his more than 50 million in salary from Green Bay in 2023, he will be without at least some of the targets he trusts the most and the expectation will be that he will assist the young receivers as they "grow" into professional football players.

Anyone confident in that plan?

The situation at wide receiver is currently a mess and it is hard to see it getting much better, with or without Rodgers at QB, in 2023.

Yeah good post. I’ve been saying the same thing. Sure you can blame rodgers for playing bad, but I’d put more of the blame on the guy who put him in a situation that asked him to be EVERYTHING he has NEVER been throughout his career

[Captain_Ben]

I don't believe Rodgers is a high level pocket passer. I don't think he will ever succeed in that role. That role requires using the middle of the field and consistent dinking and dunking and that is just not Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers is a guy who likes to evade the pocket and throw low risk throws on the sidelines.

I think this is accurate analysis. This playing style for so long was his bread and butter. It's what made him as great as he was/is. I'd imagine it would be tough to make that kind of change to your game so late in a career, especially when it's part of your identity. I'd honestly be curious to know how many high-profile QB's have successfully refined their game in that kind of way. I'm a little young to remember Steve Young's career but I've heard people compare Rodgers to him. Was there ever a point where he successfully changed himself into that pure pocket passer?

[Scott4Pack]

That’s the sort of thing that cries out that we need veteran WR experience. Still doesn’t explain why Watkins (the vet) is doing what he’s doing. But you can surely understand better that our receivers (including Dillon) just aren’t doing their jobs.

[Pckfn23]

Both poor play by the QB and receivers can be true and it is true.

[Yoop]

Do you often find that sticking your fingers in your ears like a 2-year-old makes people want to talk to you?

and no rookie QB would do better with what Rodgers has dealt with this year.

what we are seeing now is the cumulative affect of a inconsistent OL and substandard receivers over the course of 9 games, Rodgers is no spring chicken, but this stuff would affect any QB

Couple of thoughts:

1. If your bar is the best player in the game "to do better than a rookie QB" than it just shows how low the bar has gotten this year. Comments like this aren't being made if 12 is playing well.

2. Whether Rodgers still has it is one thing. But the clear thing we are seeing is the Packers aren't setup for a Rodgers successful team. We were able to squeeze it out in 2020 and 2021 but the 2022 Packers are not fit as a team for Rodgers's playing style. Overall, I just think 12 in this stage of his career is a bad fit on a team who is trying to pickup and glue the pieces with cap and draft capital constraints. It is best for both parties to move on after this season. We can't support Rodgers with the right team at this point of his career along with our depleted resources.

3. The thought of bringing back Rodgers was fine. Like I understand it. I thought we could go on a version of 2019 / Brady, Brees type offense of running the ball and Rodgers being an effective leader and game manager. But what we are seeing is Rodgers is not good at this role. Rodgers relies too much on player chemistry and knowledge of what he saw on a play in 2015 and so it must be add-libbed here.

I don't believe Rodgers is a high level pocket passer. I don't think he will ever succeed in that role. That role requires using the middle of the field and consistent dinking and dunking and that is just not Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers is a guy who likes to evade the pocket and throw low risk throws on the sidelines. This requires ad-libbing and backyard ball mentality. This is why he relies so heavily on chemistry, free plays, and getting out of the pocket. This year, Rodgers has seen a reduction in his legs and also doesn't have the chemistry so he gets trigger shy.

Rodgers has always had such insane superman abilities that he didn't have to be mechanically sound. Now that those are going away, he is struggling more and more. Add in the fact you remove his security blanket to move the chains on a consistent basis and you really see him struggling.

I thought Rodgers could adjust closer to 2019 version. 2019 he showed can take the same unit as 2018 and use it effective enough. Certainly not a top 5 QB but certain a top 8 to 12 QB which is what I was hoping for this year. Instead what we are seeing is him not letting go of what he wants to do and it is failing.

I don't believe Jordan Love would do better with this offense, but at the same point, I don't think we would see much of a drop off either. Because if we are being honest, the bar is already incredibly low.

you lost me with the first sentence, I didn't set Rodgers bar, your GM did, and for you or anyone to think a rookie would come in and improve the position is a stretch at best, the inconsistency of routes run the Kurt Warner vid shows attest to how difficult it's been to know where to throw the ball, should he trust Watkins to get a release, will he break in our out, will Lazard fall down.

the bar is low with all these receivers, the OL not much better, since Rodgers can't fix that, it's his fault

[RingoCStarrQB]

Quit blocking on passing downs