What to do with Aaron (with season now in dumpster)?

[go pak go]

and no rookie QB would do better with what Rodgers has dealt with this year.

what we are seeing now is the cumulative affect of a inconsistent OL and substandard receivers over the course of 9 games, Rodgers is no spring chicken, but this stuff would affect any QB

Couple of thoughts:

1. If your bar is the best player in the game "to do better than a rookie QB" than it just shows how low the bar has gotten this year. Comments like this aren't being made if 12 is playing well.

2. Whether Rodgers still has it is one thing. But the clear thing we are seeing is the Packers aren't setup for a Rodgers successful team. We were able to squeeze it out in 2020 and 2021 but the 2022 Packers are not fit as a team for Rodgers's playing style. Overall, I just think 12 in this stage of his career is a bad fit on a team who is trying to pickup and glue the pieces with cap and draft capital constraints. It is best for both parties to move on after this season. We can't support Rodgers with the right team at this point of his career along with our depleted resources.

3. The thought of bringing back Rodgers was fine. Like I understand it. I thought we could go on a version of 2019 / Brady, Brees type offense of running the ball and Rodgers being an effective leader and game manager. But what we are seeing is Rodgers is not good at this role. Rodgers relies too much on player chemistry and knowledge of what he saw on a play in 2015 and so it must be add-libbed here.

I don't believe Rodgers is a high level pocket passer. I don't think he will ever succeed in that role. That role requires using the middle of the field and consistent dinking and dunking and that is just not Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers is a guy who likes to evade the pocket and throw low risk throws on the sidelines. This requires ad-libbing and backyard ball mentality. This is why he relies so heavily on chemistry, free plays, and getting out of the pocket. This year, Rodgers has seen a reduction in his legs and also doesn't have the chemistry so he gets trigger shy.

Rodgers has always had such insane superman abilities that he didn't have to be mechanically sound. Now that those are going away, he is struggling more and more. Add in the fact you remove his security blanket to move the chains on a consistent basis and you really see him struggling.

I thought Rodgers could adjust closer to 2019 version. 2019 he showed can take the same unit as 2018 and use it effective enough. Certainly not a top 5 QB but certain a top 8 to 12 QB which is what I was hoping for this year. Instead what we are seeing is him not letting go of what he wants to do and it is failing.

I don't believe Jordan Love would do better with this offense, but at the same point, I don't think we would see much of a drop off either. Because if we are being honest, the bar is already incredibly low.

you lost me with the first sentence, I didn't set Rodgers bar, your GM did, and for you or anyone to think a rookie would come in and improve the position is a stretch at best, the inconsistency of routes run the Kurt Warner vid shows attest to how difficult it's been to know where to throw the ball, should he trust Watkins to get a release, will he break in our out, will Lazard fall down.

the bar is low with all these receivers, the OL not much better, since Rodgers can't fix that, it's his fault

Don't comment back if you don't/can't read posts.

[bud fox]

Some people just won't ever get it.

Keep blaming 4 time mvp. He is the bad one. Same people have been saying it for years. Won't ever change.

Evidence from a sb winning qb about how bad our receivers are but people just don't want to believe it.

Errrrr why can't he just hand it off errrrrrr

Because if you saw the lions game our rbs average 2.95 yards a carry. And this is still a throwing game.

[Yoop]

Couple of thoughts:

1. If your bar is the best player in the game "to do better than a rookie QB" than it just shows how low the bar has gotten this year. Comments like this aren't being made if 12 is playing well.

2. Whether Rodgers still has it is one thing. But the clear thing we are seeing is the Packers aren't setup for a Rodgers successful team. We were able to squeeze it out in 2020 and 2021 but the 2022 Packers are not fit as a team for Rodgers's playing style. Overall, I just think 12 in this stage of his career is a bad fit on a team who is trying to pickup and glue the pieces with cap and draft capital constraints. It is best for both parties to move on after this season. We can't support Rodgers with the right team at this point of his career along with our depleted resources.

3. The thought of bringing back Rodgers was fine. Like I understand it. I thought we could go on a version of 2019 / Brady, Brees type offense of running the ball and Rodgers being an effective leader and game manager. But what we are seeing is Rodgers is not good at this role. Rodgers relies too much on player chemistry and knowledge of what he saw on a play in 2015 and so it must be add-libbed here.

I don't believe Rodgers is a high level pocket passer. I don't think he will ever succeed in that role. That role requires using the middle of the field and consistent dinking and dunking and that is just not Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers is a guy who likes to evade the pocket and throw low risk throws on the sidelines. This requires ad-libbing and backyard ball mentality. This is why he relies so heavily on chemistry, free plays, and getting out of the pocket. This year, Rodgers has seen a reduction in his legs and also doesn't have the chemistry so he gets trigger shy.

Rodgers has always had such insane superman abilities that he didn't have to be mechanically sound. Now that those are going away, he is struggling more and more. Add in the fact you remove his security blanket to move the chains on a consistent basis and you really see him struggling.

I thought Rodgers could adjust closer to 2019 version. 2019 he showed can take the same unit as 2018 and use it effective enough. Certainly not a top 5 QB but certain a top 8 to 12 QB which is what I was hoping for this year. Instead what we are seeing is him not letting go of what he wants to do and it is failing.

I don't believe Jordan Love would do better with this offense, but at the same point, I don't think we would see much of a drop off either. Because if we are being honest, the bar is already incredibly low.

you lost me with the first sentence, I didn't set Rodgers bar, your GM did, and for you or anyone to think a rookie would come in and improve the position is a stretch at best, the inconsistency of routes run the Kurt Warner vid shows attest to how difficult it's been to know where to throw the ball, should he trust Watkins to get a release, will he break in our out, will Lazard fall down.

the bar is low with all these receivers, the OL not much better, since Rodgers can't fix that, it's his fault

Don't comment back if you don't/can't read posts.

I read your convoluted opinion, Rodgers would do well in any system as long as he had receiver talent, what Lafluer does produced a MVP QB two years straight with marginal receiver talent except for Jones and Adams, your attempt at turning this situation into Rodgers can't play in our system is hogwash and you know it.

this is you defending the GM bringing in project players for Rodgers to try and run this offense with, and then blaming Rodgers when he can't do it, never mind the make shift OL he has to deal with as well.

I hear you talk as though Rodgers isn't a pocket passer, wont throw across the middle, when Rodgers has excelled at both, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Adams are proof he does, Give Rodgers talent and he throws to every limb on the tree, minus the talent, and the coaches and Rodgers pick those plays more conservatively.

you act as though the goal of this offensive scheme lafluer brought was to run. run. run, and play stout defense, but since we cant pass, we can't run either, so that was never the goal, this is a passing league, why you or anyone here can't accept that is mind boggling, how the hell is your defense doing now, how'd the run work against the Jets, you want to limit the passing, put any ol QB in there and think your gonna win, that is so narrow minded, teams that win running the ball are rare, Lafluer brought balance, and that produced the winning teams the last 3 years, and we didn't have a top 10 defense either, what we obviously lacked was impact players on offense, everyone will attest to that, everyone that is that doesn't have a agenda to defend the way this team has been built.

[wallyuwl]

Some people just won't ever get it.

Keep blaming 4 time mvp. He is the bad one. Same people have been saying it for years. Won't ever change.

While giving Gute a free ride

[Yoop]

Some people just won't ever get it.

Keep blaming 4 time mvp. He is the bad one. Same people have been saying it for years. Won't ever change.

It never ends, now it's Rodgers can't play in Lafluers offense any more, and this is a run first league, all ya need is a great defense to carry the offense.

and don't tag my post unless you agree with my insanity, let me live here in fairy fairy land

[Yoop]

Some people just won't ever get it.

Keep blaming 4 time mvp. He is the bad one. Same people have been saying it for years. Won't ever change.

While giving Gute a free ride

no kidding, just insane, Rodgers is suppose to excel with a dilapidated OL and a handful of receivers that wouldn't even make a KC roster.

wanna sit Rodgers so this &%$@ show can get even worse, this place is like the twilight zone

[Drj820]

If only Gutey had spent the resources he spent on Love for WR help or maybe even drafted a playmaker at 12 instead of busticles rashan Gary after pouring 100m into the position weeks before

[Yoop]

If only Gutey had spent the resources he spent on Love for WR help or maybe even drafted a playmaker at 12 instead of busticles rashan Gary after pouring 100m into the position weeks before

It takes blind loyalty to defend using slot 12 on a project DE after spending a 100 mil in UDF when the cupboard was so bare at DT, WR, TE, and several other positions,

[lupedafiasco]

If only Gutey had spent the resources he spent on Love for WR help or maybe even drafted a playmaker at 12 instead of busticles rashan Gary after pouring 100m into the position weeks before

The two biggest blunders IMO was not taking DK over Savage and then taking Love instead of Higgins or Pittman.

The DK one to me was obvious. I thought he was easily a top 10 talent. I wouldn’t have taken him 12 because I thought Jeff Simmons was a top 5 talent but to not take DK in the 20s for a team in desperate need of receivers is fireable. It inly makes it worse we took Savage who I thought was a major reach in the 20s. I felt he was a round 2 safety and certainly not the best in his class.

The Love pick to me is still the most fireable offense. Not only was the pick bad but the timing of it made zero sense.

[dsr]

no kidding, just insane, Rodgers is suppose to excel with a dilapidated OL and a handful of receivers that wouldn't even make a KC roster.

wanna sit Rodgers so this &%$@ show can get even worse, this place is like the twilight zone

You don't need to excel to beat Detroit. Simple competence would have done.

The main reason for benching Rodgers wouldn't be his arm strength or accuracy vs. Love, it would be because Rodgers, supposedly the leader of the team, has come out both at press conferences and by body language to tell his receivers they aren't good enough. The leader is supposed to be all in to win, not "this is too hard, we can't do it".

[bud fox]

If only Gutey had spent the resources he spent on Love for WR help or maybe even drafted a playmaker at 12 instead of busticles rashan Gary after pouring 100m into the position weeks before

The two biggest blunders IMO was not taking DK over Savage and then taking Love instead of Higgins or Pittman.

The DK one to me was obvious. I thought he was easily a top 10 talent. I wouldn’t have taken him 12 because I thought Jeff Simmons was a top 5 talent but to not take DK in the 20s for a team in desperate need of receivers is fireable. It inly makes it worse we took Savage who I thought was a major reach in the 20s. I felt he was a round 2 safety and certainly not the best in his class.

The Love pick to me is still the most fireable offense. Not only was the pick bad but the timing of it made zero sense.

I can't believe we skipped on DK. His ability was ridiculous and the workouts showed it.

Love was just moronic. Picking any qb that high with Rodgers still here is dumb enough but a guy that has looked bad is even worse.

[bud fox]

no kidding, just insane, Rodgers is suppose to excel with a dilapidated OL and a handful of receivers that wouldn't even make a KC roster.

wanna sit Rodgers so this &%$@ show can get even worse, this place is like the twilight zone

You don't need to excel to beat Detroit. Simple competence would have done.

The main reason for benching Rodgers wouldn't be his arm strength or accuracy vs. Love, it would be because Rodgers, supposedly the leader of the team, has come out both at press conferences and by body language to tell his receivers they aren't good enough. The leader is supposed to be all in to win, not "this is too hard, we can't do it".

No he hasn't but guess what they aren't. And they aren't going to turn it around. And they are most likely going to be out of the league having achieved nothing.

They are losing on every route.

[go pak go]

you lost me with the first sentence, I didn't set Rodgers bar, your GM did, and for you or anyone to think a rookie would come in and improve the position is a stretch at best, the inconsistency of routes run the Kurt Warner vid shows attest to how difficult it's been to know where to throw the ball, should he trust Watkins to get a release, will he break in our out, will Lazard fall down.

the bar is low with all these receivers, the OL not much better, since Rodgers can't fix that, it's his fault

Don't comment back if you don't/can't read posts.

I read your convoluted opinion, Rodgers would do well in any system as long as he had receiver talent, what Lafluer does produced a MVP QB two years straight with marginal receiver talent except for Jones and Adams, your attempt at turning this situation into Rodgers can't play in our system is hogwash and you know it.

this is you defending the GM bringing in project players for Rodgers to try and run this offense with, and then blaming Rodgers when he can't do it, never mind the make shift OL he has to deal with as well.

I hear you talk as though Rodgers isn't a pocket passer, wont throw across the middle, when Rodgers has excelled at both, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Adams are proof he does, Give Rodgers talent and he throws to every limb on the tree, minus the talent, and the coaches and Rodgers pick those plays more conservatively.

you act as though the goal of this offensive scheme lafluer brought was to run. run. run, and play stout defense, but since we cant pass, we can't run either, so that was never the goal, this is a passing league, why you or anyone here can't accept that is mind boggling, how the hell is your defense doing now, how'd the run work against the Jets, you want to limit the passing, put any ol QB in there and think your gonna win, that is so narrow minded, teams that win running the ball are rare, Lafluer brought balance, and that produced the winning teams the last 3 years, and we didn't have a top 10 defense either, what we obviously lacked was impact players on offense, everyone will attest to that, everyone that is that doesn't have a agenda to defend the way this team has been built.

No Gutekunst definitely assessed the 2022 incorrectly. He f'ed up bad. His seat is definitely getting warm.

But this thread isn't about that. This thread is about Rodgers's contract and how the Packers and Rodgers should move forward. Not about complaining about Oline and WR. That has been discussed on every thread on this forum since 2015.

[Yoop]

Don't comment back if you don't/can't read posts.

I read your convoluted opinion, Rodgers would do well in any system as long as he had receiver talent, what Lafluer does produced a MVP QB two years straight with marginal receiver talent except for Jones and Adams, your attempt at turning this situation into Rodgers can't play in our system is hogwash and you know it.

this is you defending the GM bringing in project players for Rodgers to try and run this offense with, and then blaming Rodgers when he can't do it, never mind the make shift OL he has to deal with as well.

I hear you talk as though Rodgers isn't a pocket passer, wont throw across the middle, when Rodgers has excelled at both, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Adams are proof he does, Give Rodgers talent and he throws to every limb on the tree, minus the talent, and the coaches and Rodgers pick those plays more conservatively.

you act as though the goal of this offensive scheme lafluer brought was to run. run. run, and play stout defense, but since we cant pass, we can't run either, so that was never the goal, this is a passing league, why you or anyone here can't accept that is mind boggling, how the hell is your defense doing now, how'd the run work against the Jets, you want to limit the passing, put any ol QB in there and think your gonna win, that is so narrow minded, teams that win running the ball are rare, Lafluer brought balance, and that produced the winning teams the last 3 years, and we didn't have a top 10 defense either, what we obviously lacked was impact players on offense, everyone will attest to that, everyone that is that doesn't have a agenda to defend the way this team has been built.

No Gutekunst definitely assessed the 2022 incorrectly. He f'ed up bad. His seat is definitely getting warm.

We are both saddened with the state of the team, I sure don't want to see a over haul of the FO any more then you do, my angst over this whole deal hasn't changed in years GPG, imho Brian needed to do what Ted did when he started, insure that Rodgers had talent to work with, ya don't ask a old guy like Rodgers to continually year after year train raw recruits, resentments set in, feelings get hurt, this focus and failure to keep drafting defense and neglecting to acquire receiver help, relying on Adams has led to this.

I know I've become a broken record on this subject, mostly though because I didn't get support for my view point, ya need bullets or the gun don't shoot, we all like to see the run work, we all love stout defense, but neither can come at the expense of passing the ball, passing the ball is the easiest aspect to get right, as long as you have a great QB, good pass pro and a stable of good to better then good receivers your good to go, Ted new that, lis he drafted 2nd and a 3rd round receiver in 5 of his first 9 drafts, thats what ya do when ya have a guy like Rodgers.

[go pak go]

I read your convoluted opinion, Rodgers would do well in any system as long as he had receiver talent, what Lafluer does produced a MVP QB two years straight with marginal receiver talent except for Jones and Adams, your attempt at turning this situation into Rodgers can't play in our system is hogwash and you know it.

this is you defending the GM bringing in project players for Rodgers to try and run this offense with, and then blaming Rodgers when he can't do it, never mind the make shift OL he has to deal with as well.

I hear you talk as though Rodgers isn't a pocket passer, wont throw across the middle, when Rodgers has excelled at both, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Adams are proof he does, Give Rodgers talent and he throws to every limb on the tree, minus the talent, and the coaches and Rodgers pick those plays more conservatively.

you act as though the goal of this offensive scheme lafluer brought was to run. run. run, and play stout defense, but since we cant pass, we can't run either, so that was never the goal, this is a passing league, why you or anyone here can't accept that is mind boggling, how the hell is your defense doing now, how'd the run work against the Jets, you want to limit the passing, put any ol QB in there and think your gonna win, that is so narrow minded, teams that win running the ball are rare, Lafluer brought balance, and that produced the winning teams the last 3 years, and we didn't have a top 10 defense either, what we obviously lacked was impact players on offense, everyone will attest to that, everyone that is that doesn't have a agenda to defend the way this team has been built.

No Gutekunst definitely assessed the 2022 incorrectly. He f'ed up bad. His seat is definitely getting warm.

We are both saddened with the state of the team, I sure don't want to see a over haul of the FO any more then you do, my angst over this whole deal hasn't changed in years GPG, imho Brian needed to do what Ted did when he started, insure that Rodgers had talent to work with, ya don't ask a old guy like Rodgers to continually year after year train raw recruits, resentments set in, feelings get hurt, this focus and failure to keep drafting defense and neglecting to acquire receiver help, relying on Adams has led to this.

I know I've become a broken record on this subject, mostly though because I didn't get support for my view point, ya need bullets or the gun don't shoot, we all like to see the run work, we all love stout defense, but neither can come at the expense of passing the ball, passing the ball is the easiest aspect to get right, as long as you have a great QB, good pass pro and a stable of good to better then good receivers your good to go, Ted new that, lis he drafted 2nd and a 3rd round receiver in 5 of his first 9 drafts, thats what ya do when ya have a guy like Rodgers.

This team needs to be built for post Rodgers now. That has been analyzed plenty that a Rodgers led Packers won't exceed what we had in 2020 or 2021.

The only chance this 2022 team had was a stronger defense and different philosophical approach on offense. Effectively, the hope was to have our best chance at a SB to rely less on Aaron Rodgers and more on great defense, sound STs and a running attack. The strategy of winning with Rodgers as your main dude failed in January every single time. So I was excited coming into the season, but combination of coaching, playing, chemistry and drop-off in WR1 talent didn't make that transition possible.

It is time to move on. I said it last year. I am now screaming it this year.

[Yoop]

This team needs to be built for post Rodgers now. That has been analyzed plenty that a Rodgers led Packers won't exceed what we had in 2020 or 2021.

The only chance this 2022 team had was a stronger defense and different philosophical approach on offense. A combination of coaching, playing, chemistry and drop-off in WR1 talent didn't make that possible.

It is time to move on. I said it last year. I am now screaming it this year.

your not getting it, there is no such thing as building post Rodgers, We will always need to be able to pass the ball, which means we will always need the best QB we can get, and receivers that are better then the quality we have now.

you continue to invent a offense of run and play great defense excluding the need to be able a very good passing team, and if you'd look at the teams that win, there either a great passing offense or they have a great balance of both run and pass, this idea you have of building up one minus the other is not sustainable.

the 60's Packers where known as great running teams, in reality Bart Starr won a lot of big games throwing to quality receivers

and who analyzed that this team couldn't win these last 2 PO games or future ones with Rodgers, as I said that is nothing but convoluted bull &%$@, you insult me with your ignorance, 2020 required the receivers to drop 7 passes, one a obvious TD and another a catch and walk in, 2021 the ST's again makes it near impossible to win, and all Rodgers really had to work with was Jones and Adams, you create a scenario of pre determined disposition to further your agenda to &%$@ on Rodgers and been doing so for years and get pissed off at me because I wont accept your mallarky.

you and others here analyzing this situation is no more accurate then anything I've said so don't throw that around as though it carries any weight.

[go pak go]

This team needs to be built for post Rodgers now. That has been analyzed plenty that a Rodgers led Packers won't exceed what we had in 2020 or 2021.

The only chance this 2022 team had was a stronger defense and different philosophical approach on offense. A combination of coaching, playing, chemistry and drop-off in WR1 talent didn't make that possible.

It is time to move on. I said it last year. I am now screaming it this year.

your not getting it, there is no such thing as building post Rodgers, We will always need to be able to pass the ball, which means we will always need the best QB we can get, and receivers that are better then the quality we have now.

you continue to invent a offense of run and play great defense excluding the need to be able a very good passing team, and if you'd look at the teams that win, there either a great passing offense or they have a great balance of both run and pass, this idea you have of building up one minus the other is not sustainable.

the 60's Packers where known as great running teams, in reality Bart Starr won a lot of big games throwing to quality receivers

and who analyzed that this team couldn't win these last 2 PO games or future ones with Rodgers, as I said that is nothing but convoluted bull &%$@, you insult me with your ignorance, 2020 required the receivers to drop 7 passes, one a obvious TD and another a catch and walk in, 2021 the ST's again makes it near impossible to win, and all Rodgers really had to work with was Jones and Adams, you create a scenario of pre determined disposition to further your agenda to &%$@ on Rodgers and been doing so for years and get pissed off at me because I wont accept your mallarky.

you and others here analyzing this situation is no more accurate then anything I've said so don't throw that around as though it carries any weight.

yoop.

The Green Bay Packers will never be as good as the 2020 and 2021 Green Bay Packers with Aaron Rodgers as our quarterback.

1. Rodgers is older and remarkably more expensive.
2. We don't have the level of perimeter players and we won't get it in a year.
3. Our All Pro LT is looking to be on his last legs and his cap hit triples the next two years.
4. Our defensive star players cap hits double and triple next year and 2024.
5. The Packers have to use 2023 and 2024 cap space to pay for 2020 - 2022 contracts.

The Packers with Rodgers at the helm is over. My point was if 2020 and 2021 didn't get it done, we certainly won't get it done in 2023 or 2024 with Rodgers at the helm. It is over. 2022 is screaming at us that a Rodgers led Packers is over.

The Packers cannot deliver what you are asking for. The only glimmer is if we draft a Justin Jefferson type and bomb out with a rookie WR. But again, what would be any different than bombing out with the league's best WR like we did in 2020 and 2021?

I'm not saying we couldn't win PO games in 2020 and 2021. We in fact should have. Those were majorly blown opportunities. The Packers were the best team in those seasons. But it's the fact we didn't win in 2020 and 2021.

It's time to move on.

[Yoop]

It's time to move on.

bull, you simply refuse to accept that the difference between who we where the last 2 years and now is mostly defensive coaching, lack of ready to play receivers, and OL injury's, all of that is fixable this off season, in fact, with Guty's drafting next year looks much better then this year, your throwing in the towel and lack the forsight to see what I do.

both Walker and Wyatt have the ability for a big second year leap, same with Watson, Doubs and Toure, the OL is in a flux mostly do to injury's, and Berry and the defense will have another year in his schemes, unless we fire him which is doubtful, your quitting on a HOF QB because of issues that wont change without him and he is still the best option next year, kee3p as much of the talent around for another shot

[Labrev]

Some people just won't ever get it.

Keep blaming 4 time mvp. He is the bad one. Same people have been saying it for years. Won't ever change.

The real MVP of our last two seasons is no longer on this team.

[Yoop]

Some people just won't ever get it.

Keep blaming 4 time mvp. He is the bad one. Same people have been saying it for years. Won't ever change.

The real MVP of our last two seasons is no longer on this team.
[/quote/]

more horse manure, do you ever tire of shoveling, Adams stats in every recordable measurable have declined from the last 2 seasons, minus Rodgers and he's just a top 10 receiver, may not even make the pro bowl.