Matt LaFleur

[Labrev]

Should we really be surprised that MLF has been subservient to the star QB, when his hiring was in all likelihood made with Rodgers in mind (namely, getting him back to elite form) in the first place?

There's a reason why new coach/GM regimes often start by changing the QB. An established QB does not feel like he owes anything to a new coach or management. A new QB owes their career to the management that took a shot on them and the coach that made them a player.

You don't hear about a second-year QB going through the playbook and having the coach add stuff the player likes and get rid of stuff he doesn't. That happened after Rodgers's first year with MLF, before he got back to MVP level.

Whether that was the way to go or not, MLF was the right guy for that job; he rejuvenated a stagnant Rodgers.

He has not been up to the task of leading an offense to score by means other than Rodgers-to-Adams/WR1.

[Drj820]

Little Matt’s got too many problems on his hands that he can actually control to be worried/crying about crowd noise. The guy looks lost.

[Yoop]

A lot of betas trying to convince themselves there’s nothing wrong with them on here.

Wow.

[Yoop]

Little Matt’s got too many problems on his hands that he can actually control to be worried/crying about crowd noise. The guy looks lost.

why the need to denigrate Lafluer, that guy has had a tough path, inheriting a QB that probably knows as much as he does about game planning, and having to mold a relationship with Rodgers wanting a say in the play designs, having such great chemistry with Adams, and two good RB, quality play at OL the first couple years and this offense was potent, take away Adams and injury's to the two best Oliners and it shouldn't surprise us there would be a price to pay with offensive decline, hard to blame Lafluer or even Rodgers, for the injury issues to Bahk and Jenkins, but we didn't have either and the OL in my opinion was better last year, as to receivers, I've harped about that neglect plenty, for that the buck stops at Gutekunst.

when things go bad, fingers shoot out pointing blame in all directions, I like what Lafluers schemes are capable of, to bad he's not getting better production from the positions holding it back, Rodgers included.

we are probably still one of the worst defenses in the league stopping the run, and we have two of the top ILB's against the run, ( Campbells out now) so what does that say about our DL, we all assume it's a lack of talent, but what has DL coach Montgomery ever produced besides one of the worst run stopping DL's in the league, I am not that impressed with our positional coaches, and certainly not DL.

If we decide to start subbing out starters for wannabe's I'am thinking fire Barry and promote Jerry Gray to DC to finish out the season auditioning for the job next season, find out if Love is worth a 5th year commitment, and give these young receivers incentive to train year round on the jugs machine, hell jugs are only a 100 K every receiver should own one,

[Drj820]

Little Matt’s got too many problems on his hands that he can actually control to be worried/crying about crowd noise. The guy looks lost.

why the need to denigrate Lafluer, that guy has had a tough path, inheriting a QB that probably knows as much as he does about game planning, and having to mold a relationship with Rodgers wanting a say in the play designs, having such great chemistry with Adams, and two good RB, quality play at OL the first couple years and this offense was potent, take away Adams and injury's to the two best Oliners and it shouldn't surprise us there would be a price to pay with offensive decline, hard to blame Lafluer or even Rodgers, for the injury issues to Bahk and Jenkins, but we didn't have either and the OL in my opinion was better last year, as to receivers, I've harped about that neglect plenty, for that the buck stops at Gutekunst.

when things go bad, fingers shoot out pointing blame in all directions, I like what Lafluers schemes are capable of, to bad he's not getting better production from the positions holding it back, Rodgers included.

we are probably still one of the worst defenses in the league stopping the run, and we have two of the top ILB's against the run, ( Campbells out now) so what does that say about our DL, we all assume it's a lack of talent, but what has DL coach Montgomery ever produced besides one of the worst run stopping DL's in the league, I am not that impressed with our positional coaches, and certainly not DL.

If we decide to start subbing out starters for wannabe's I'am thinking fire Barry and promote Jerry Gray to DC to finish out the season auditioning for the job next season, find out if Love is worth a 5th year commitment, and give these young receivers incentive to train year round on the jugs machine, hell jugs are only a 100 K every receiver should own one,

Tough path? He’s basically paid 5m a year to manage the relationship with Rodgers and that has gifted him an extension that he just signed. How many HCs walk into a situation with a HOF qb as their QB? It’s rare.

Lafleur is lucky to have 12. So is Gute. They all know it too, including Rodgers. That’s why he has em all by the nuts.

[Gunzaan]

The guy with a Lombardi quote as his signature is rolling his eyes at the concept that juiced up NFL players are looking for an alpha personality to lead them.

Freaking priceless - thanks for the laugh!

A lot of betas trying to convince themselves there’s nothing wrong with them on here.

Oh look, some self-appointed alpha males are upset that I questioned something. Quelle surprise.

Mad? Not at all - you quite literally made me laugh. I realized a while ago that there are different perspectives than mine. It would be good lesson for everyone to learn. These guys who actually play have a MUCH different perspective than the old timers with strong opinions sitting behind a keyboard defending MLF.

To dismiss the possibility that modern-day “jocks/warriors” respond differently to alpha-styled leadership is flat out ignorant and discounts their experiences in life that led them to feel that way.

[Drj820]

It’s a little more complex than alpha/beta.

I mean traditionally yes, football coaches have been total Alphas that can command the room. Almost like military generals. But that’s changing with the focus on analytics and complex schemes. Look at Mike McDaniel in Miami, he’s pretty new at the gig but he’s off to a good start and he’s no alpha. Are there others? Not sure about good ones, maybe staley. Yeah, most are still alphas that command the room.

But either way…this goes beyond alpha/beta. Lafleur could get by being who he is if people just saw him as a guru of something. Whether QB guru or offensive genius…at this day in time of football, a guru or whatever personally persuasion could be effective if everyone respected their genius.

Problem for Lafleur is that we aren’t sure that he’s a guru of anything. Maybe it was Getsy or Hackett that got Rodgers right? Why hasn’t he been able to develop Love? Why does the offense so often only look good “on script”? Does anybody think he is some genius playcaller for 4 quarters? I don’t.

Then to add to that you’ve got Rodgers humiliating him every chance he can. Cursing him out, screaming at him in front of players etc. they all see he has ceded all power to rodgers. If rodgers had self control and showed respect in public, the team would do the same. But the star treats you like a clown, the rest of the team sees you as a clown.

So Lafleurs personality isn’t 100% of the problem, it’s that rodgers is a dick and runs over him every chance he can. The team sees this and then they wonder what he is the guru of that demands respect, and no one knows.

Do you know?

[Yoop]

It’s a little more complex than alpha/beta.

I mean traditionally yes, football coaches have been total Alphas that can command the room. Almost like military generals. But that’s changing with the focus on analytics and complex schemes. Look at Mike McDaniel in Miami, he’s pretty new at the gig but he’s off to a good start and he’s no alpha. Are there others? Not sure about good ones, maybe staley. Yeah, most are still alphas that command the room.

But either way…this goes beyond alpha/beta. Lafleur could get by being who he is if people just saw him as a guru of something. Whether QB guru or offensive genius…at this day in time of football, a guru or whatever personally persuasion could be effective if everyone respected their genius.

Problem for Lafleur is that we aren’t sure that he’s a guru of anything. Maybe it was Getsy or Hackett that got Rodgers right? Why hasn’t he been able to develop Love? Why does the offense so often only look good “on script”? Does anybody think he is some genius playcaller for 4 quarters? I don’t.

Then to add to that you’ve got Rodgers humiliating him every chance he can. Cursing him out, screaming at him in front of players etc. they all see he has ceded all power to rodgers. If rodgers had self control and showed respect in public, the team would do the same. But the star treats you like a clown, the rest of the team sees you as a clown.

So Lafleurs personality isn’t 100% of the problem, it’s that rodgers is a dick and runs over him every chance he can. The team sees this and then they wonder what he is the guru of that demands respect, and no one knows.

Do you know?

Lafluer brought deception to a stagnant offense, he brought motion, jet sweeps, and mis direction, it benefited the run game as well as uptempo passing, that he and Rodgers argue about play calling is mostly a Rodgers issue brought about out of frustration when nothing seems to work the way it has in the past, not sure theres any more to it then that.

this &%$@ show started on two fronts, obviously a weak WR group, but also a OL thats had T and G fluctuation all season, couple that with a ultra stubborn DC, and this is the result.

[Drj820]

It’s a little more complex than alpha/beta.

I mean traditionally yes, football coaches have been total Alphas that can command the room. Almost like military generals. But that’s changing with the focus on analytics and complex schemes. Look at Mike McDaniel in Miami, he’s pretty new at the gig but he’s off to a good start and he’s no alpha. Are there others? Not sure about good ones, maybe staley. Yeah, most are still alphas that command the room.

But either way…this goes beyond alpha/beta. Lafleur could get by being who he is if people just saw him as a guru of something. Whether QB guru or offensive genius…at this day in time of football, a guru or whatever personally persuasion could be effective if everyone respected their genius.

Problem for Lafleur is that we aren’t sure that he’s a guru of anything. Maybe it was Getsy or Hackett that got Rodgers right? Why hasn’t he been able to develop Love? Why does the offense so often only look good “on script”? Does anybody think he is some genius playcaller for 4 quarters? I don’t.

Then to add to that you’ve got Rodgers humiliating him every chance he can. Cursing him out, screaming at him in front of players etc. they all see he has ceded all power to rodgers. If rodgers had self control and showed respect in public, the team would do the same. But the star treats you like a clown, the rest of the team sees you as a clown.

So Lafleurs personality isn’t 100% of the problem, it’s that rodgers is a dick and runs over him every chance he can. The team sees this and then they wonder what he is the guru of that demands respect, and no one knows.

Do you know?

Lafluer brought deception to a stagnant offense, he brought motion, jet sweeps, and mis direction, it benefited the run game as well as uptempo passing, that he and Rodgers argue about play calling is mostly a Rodgers issue brought about out of frustration when nothing seems to work the way it has in the past, not sure theres any more to it then that.

this &%$@ show started on two fronts, obviously a weak WR group, but also a OL thats had T and G fluctuation all season, couple that with a ultra stubborn DC, and this is the result.

I don’t know man, I see motion and misdirection at the beginning when we are playing on script. And then maybe when we are feeling all good with a lead. But that stuff goes away pretty quick when our backs are against the wall. We quickly go back to ways of old imo.

And it’s not like adding motion to a play is the work of a genius, that’s just modern football lol

[RingoCStarrQB]

Little Matt’s got too many problems on his hands that he can actually control to be worried/crying about crowd noise. The guy looks lost.

He's obviously in over his head right how. It might take a miracle to dig out of this mess.

[Yoop]

this Alpha male banter tossed around these days describes ego driven people with no concern for anyone else, it screams look at me, I got power, and that makes me better then you, but imo thats not it at all, obviously players want self assured role models, teachers that can help them be better football players as well as better human beings, it's what sets some coaches in higher demand, Bill Walsh would never have described himself as a Alpha male, and he was one of the best coaches the league ever had., players don't look for fire and brimstone in a coach

when Lombardi said Winning is the only thing, his comment wasn't restricted to football, mostly it was about life, and the tools one needs to relate and prosper

Everyone wants to be respected, in order to get that you have to give it, I doubt anyone respects a person who gloats or acts above others, maybe I'am confusing some of the comments concerning this alpha ism in here, but it sounds like campaign trivia for the Orangeman, if that is your definition of being a Alpha male, ya need to pull your heads out of your lower unit.

[wallyuwl]

Little Matt’s got too many problems on his hands that he can actually control to be worried/crying about crowd noise. The guy looks lost.

He's obviously in over his head right how. It might take a miracle to dig out of this mess.

Not a good look to the team when you cry after a win and look like you're going to cry after a loss.

[lupedafiasco]

Little Matt’s got too many problems on his hands that he can actually control to be worried/crying about crowd noise. The guy looks lost.

He's obviously in over his head right how. It might take a miracle to dig out of this mess.

Not a good look to the team when you cry after a win and look like you're going to cry after a loss.

I thought the same thing myself. When he cried after that I win I just felt like he looked weak and on the verge of breaking.

When he’s asked questions by the media after games and he says “I don’t know” I truly think he doesn’t know. He has no answers for how to right this ship just like in games where we get smacked early he is clueless how to turn it back in our favor.

[LombardiTime]

MLF built up a lot of goodwill wining 13, 13, and 13 regular season games during his first 3 seasons.

Some of the shine on that regular season record was diminished by the 2-3 playoff record, including 2 losses at home.

The 2020 hiring of Drayton and then refusing to take action while allowing Mo's Special Teams to directly thwart the team in the 2021 playoff loss to the 49ers took a lot more shine off the regular season record.

The 2020 hiring of two-time loser Joe Barry to coordinate the defense is, in this 2022 season, looking to be nearly as poor a decision as the Drayton hire has taken even more shine off the regular season record.

The current 4-7 record, with a sputtering offense and without much promise on the horizon, coupled with the likely firing of another Defensive Coordinator upcoming has officially taken the bloom off the MLF coaching rose.

MLF got his extension and will not be relieved of his duties any time soon, but the goodwill among the majority of the fan base is either gone or mostly gone and he is going to have to do some extensive self-scouting this offseason to improve his, and maybe even more importantly, his staff's performance.

[APB]

MLF built up a lot of goodwill wining 13, 13, and 13 regular season games during his first 3 seasons.

Some of the shine on that regular season record was diminished by the 2-3 playoff record, including 2 losses at home.

The 2020 hiring of Drayton and then refusing to take action while allowing Mo's Special Teams to directly thwart the team in the 2021 playoff loss to the 49ers took a lot more shine off the regular season record.

The 2020 hiring of two-time loser Joe Barry to coordinate the defense is, in this 2022 season, looking to be nearly as poor a decision as the Drayton hire has taken even more shine off the regular season record.

The current 4-7 record, with a sputtering offense and without much promise on the horizon, coupled with the likely firing of another Defensive Coordinator upcoming has officially taken the bloom off the MLF coaching rose.

MLF got his extension and will not be relieved of his duties any time soon, but the goodwill among the majority of the fan base is either gone or mostly gone and he is going to have to do some extensive self-scouting this offseason to improve his, and maybe even more importantly, his staff's performance.

Summed up nicely.

Those staff failures are especially damning when you consider a great many novice fans saw trouble on the horizon when these hires were made. Mo promoted from Lieutenant of a failed ST staff. Barry brought in after failed stints as DC elsewhere. Many of us questioned these hires at the time for their obvious questionable traits. The fact Mo failed miserably - and sabotaged a season for us - and now Barry, too, rightfully opens the door to questioning MLF’s choices presently as well as going forward.

[Pckfn23]

When Barry was hired we were told he was because he was going to implement an aggressive style of defense. We saw that last year. This year it's been a 180 and even LaFleur has publicly commented that he wants to see a more aggressive defense. Gotta get your vision across or hold coaches accountable for not executing the vision.

[Yoop]

I've thought Jerry Gray would be a good interim DC, but with the way our pass coverage has looked I'am starting to doubt that, but then the DC sets up the schemes and the assistants implement them, yada yada, whatever, there seems to be a disconnect, our secondary looks chaotic and confused to often.

Jerry Montgomery is another promote from within guy, 4 years assistant line coach, and 3 years DL coach and now DL and run game assistant, and for 8 years we are amongst the worst teams in the league stopping the run, now some of this can be blamed on lack of talent, but what a crappy track record, however neither of Pettine or now Barry saw fit to replace him, same with Gray, so for whatever reason there jobs have been secure.

I remember complaints that Capers schemes where to complicated, imo both Pettine and now Barry's year two adjustments have upped the complication part.

[wallyuwl]

When Barry was hired we were told he was because he was going to implement an aggressive style of defense. We saw that last year. This year it's been a 180 and even LaFleur has publicly commented that he wants to see a more aggressive defense. Gotta get your vision across or hold coaches accountable for not executing the vision.

If this is true (and probably is), it takes a beta to allow it to happen, where the employee (Barry) doesn't listen to the boss.

[Drj820]

I think the problem is the issue of Lafleur being an expert of…what??? Offense? QBs? Maybe so. But I certainly don’t think the development of Love or the offenses ability to perform in big games or when trailing has demonstrated that. But let’s give him that…let’s say Lafleur has the O mastered and it’s his baby. Okay.

Well he’s not just the OC, he’s the head coach.

He openly admired he “learns stuff everyday” from bischocchi when he came in as STs coach. I think Lafleur can describe a philosophy he wants to run on D, but does he know anything at all about defensive schemes, run figs, plays etc??

I found it mind blowing how bad he let STs get last year. Like a good HC may not fire the coordinator mid year, but he would basically neuter the guy and run the STs himself. A good HC is not rolling into the playoffs just praying the nemesis all year won’t be the problem that it’s been all year. They are using their knowledge of the game to mitigate the disaster.

So my point is that I’m not sure Lafleur has any knowledge of specifics to instruct the STs or DC on about what to do or what to run. I’m not sure his command of the whole game is there.

[Yoop]

When Barry was hired we were told he was because he was going to implement an aggressive style of defense. We saw that last year. This year it's been a 180 and even LaFleur has publicly commented that he wants to see a more aggressive defense. Gotta get your vision across or hold coaches accountable for not executing the vision.

If this is true (and probably is), it takes a beta to allow it to happen, where the employee (Barry) doesn't listen to the boss.

oh please, you and your alpha analogy doesn't make any sense, Players are attracted to great teachers, they respect anyone that can make them a better player, and often don't care for rah rah loud domineering people, Lafluer is no less a self assured coach then most others in the league, I don't see any offensive players quitting on him as I have for Barry, who you might call a alpha male, your trying to sell a narrow minded narrative that fear dominates teaching and that just isn't true, and never has been, no one with any self respect sticks around for abuse except college kids, or people stuck in a position they can't get out of, and certainly no one learns much from a jerk, in my experience they tune them out.

Lafluer is frustrated, and that is what you saw in that presser, to make more out of it then that, takes creation on your part, your inventing what you want to believe.

this Alpha male bull &%$@ is the biggest line of crap to ever float this forum, pure trash, just try this domineering BS at your job or business and see how far it takes you, right to the unemployment line, sounds like you been PMing with your political forum buddies, cause it's a line right out of the trump play book, and nothing but a steaming pile of &%$@.