Matt LaFleur

[Yoop]

I think the problem is the issue of Lafleur being an expert of…what??? Offense? QBs? Maybe so. But I certainly don’t think the development of Love or the offenses ability to perform in big games or when trailing has demonstrated that. But let’s give him that…let’s say Lafleur has the O mastered and it’s his baby. Okay.

Well he’s not just the OC, he’s the head coach.

He openly admired he “learns stuff everyday” from bischocchi when he came in as STs coach. I think Lafleur can describe a philosophy he wants to run on D, but does he know anything at all about defensive schemes, run figs, plays etc??

I found it mind blowing how bad he let STs get last year. Like a good HC may not fire the coordinator mid year, but he would basically neuter the guy and run the STs himself. A good HC is not rolling into the playoffs just praying the nemesis all year won’t be the problem that it’s been all year. They are using their knowledge of the game to mitigate the disaster.

So my point is that I’m not sure Lafleur has any knowledge of specifics to instruct the STs or DC on about what to do or what to run. I’m not sure his command of the whole game is there.

wow, Coaches more often then not say whatever it takes to satisfy those asking the questions, you and others rip him on anything he says.

you and others here act like Lafluer can just hire any cord or assistant he wants, as though he holds the purse strings, sure he wanted his own DC, but was Barry his first choice? where not privy to that answer, who knows Barry could have been lower on the list and the others wanted more money, Matt lost Hackett and Getsy, was Lafluers first choices Vrable and Stenavich, or where they cost affective as well, neither can carry water for the departed Hackett and Getsy in my opinion.

since Matt took over we finally have a more balanced offense, well up to this year anyway, and did that with 2 good RB's and one quality receiver, in my book thats a light tool box, It's funny how so many give credit to Rodgers for the 3 13-3 seasons, when the balance approach Lafluer brought where harder to defend then anything McCarthy brought his last 3 years.

[Captain_Ben]

Prior to Thursday night's game I was telling my buddy that I thought we would lose because we have a comparative disadvantage with our HC. Vrabel is gritty and charismatic- the kind of guy you'd want to run through a wall for, as an athlete. Players respond to coaches whom they want to emulate. Did we ever see the same Clay Matthews after the departure of Kevin Greene as linebackers coach? "Alpha," "beta," call it whatever you want, I don't care. But there is something to leadership and the team just feels soft and uninspired under LaFleur.

[RingoCStarrQB]

Prior to Thursday night's game I was telling my buddy that I thought we would lose because we have a comparative disadvantage with our HC. Vrabel is gritty and charismatic- the kind of guy you'd want to run through a wall for, as an athlete. Players respond to coaches whom they want to emulate. Did we ever see the same Clay Matthews after the departure of Kevin Greene as linebackers coach? "Alpha," "beta," call it whatever you want, I don't care. But there is something to leadership and the team just feels soft and uninspired under LaFleur.

Definitely spot on. Other examples for comparison: Where's our Charles Woodson on defense? Where's our Ray Nitschke and Willie Davis on defense? Where's our Fritz Shurmur?

[Yoop]

Prior to Thursday night's game I was telling my buddy that I thought we would lose because we have a comparative disadvantage with our HC. Vrabel is gritty and charismatic- the kind of guy you'd want to run through a wall for, as an athlete. Players respond to coaches whom they want to emulate. Did we ever see the same Clay Matthews after the departure of Kevin Greene as linebackers coach? "Alpha," "beta," call it whatever you want, I don't care. But there is something to leadership and the team just feels soft and uninspired under LaFleur.

so then a rah rah coach is the definition of a Alpha male? guess I look at that differently, again ya dont need to be that way to inspire players, and hamstring issues imo led to the decline of Mathews far more then Kevin leaving.

I still see players celebrate after a great play, obviously we see less of it this season, imo that has more to do with losing versus lack of roll models.

this team obviously after these last 3 seasons and the acquisition of more talent felt they would be winners, after losing, and loss of faith in ability, wouldn't you think a let down, and lack of emotion would be normal? I do, it's like a champion boxer being knocked down 3 times in round one, he's gonna be reeling, thats what I see from our defense now, frustration sets on, which is contagious, and players look at times to not be giving there all, happens to most losing teams, and they all have respectable coaches that the players admire.

I don't see the lack of masculinity the same way you do I guess, to me Kevin Green was just a inspirational teacher, but thats not a prerequisite to be a great coach, in fact at times it can be distracting and a hindrance in some situations, Joe Gibbs, Dungy, Walsh, Bud Grant, there are dozens and dozens of low key successful coaches, and plenty of the fire and brimstone in your face successful coaches to, but to say players preferred the Lombardi's over the Joe Gibbs of the coaching fraternity is a long reach for me, mostly to me players want to be the best they can be, and any coach that can help them accomplish that would be sought after, well maybe not Mike Ditka lol

[Realist]

Prior to Thursday night's game I was telling my buddy that I thought we would lose because we have a comparative disadvantage with our HC. Vrabel is gritty and charismatic- the kind of guy you'd want to run through a wall for, as an athlete. Players respond to coaches whom they want to emulate. Did we ever see the same Clay Matthews after the departure of Kevin Greene as linebackers coach? "Alpha," "beta," call it whatever you want, I don't care. But there is something to leadership and the team just feels soft and uninspired under LaFleur.

Definitely spot on. Other examples for comparison: Where's our Charles Woodson on defense? Where's our Ray Nitschke and Willie Davis on defense? Where's our Fritz Shurmur?

We have some great celebration dancers on D? Nevermind. We are soft serve ice cream on D.

[Captain_Ben]

so then a rah rah coach is the definition of a Alpha male?

Again, I'm not concerned with labels and definitions. I believe that any leader who isn't respected is destined to fail. In the case of LaFleur, he is making a mistake by trying to be buddies with Aaron Rodgers. When AR calls him "Matty" in postgame interviews, it's obvious that respect is lacking. Now it might be the case that a future HOF like Rodgers is incapable of respecting the authority of a guy like LaFleur, who played QB for Saginaw Valley State (?). Regardless, if you're LaFleur, you have to establish your authority from the outset. When Aaron makes passive-aggressive comments about you to the media tell him diplomatically yet firmly to "STFU and let me do my job." Except Matty didn't do that from the outset. At this point, it will be a tall order for him to take his nuts back.

I don't believe a coach needs to be "rah rah" in order to be great. Some of the best can speak softly and carry a big stick. But one thing that the coaches you mentioned all have in common is that they wouldn't have put up with BS from any of their players. And I'm pretty sure none of them would have started crying in press conferences either.

[Pckfn23]

Now it might be the case that a future HOF like Rodgers is incapable of respecting the authority of a guy like LaFleur, who played QB for Saginaw Valley State (?).

What does this have to do with it?

[Captain_Ben]

Now it might be the case that a future HOF like Rodgers is incapable of respecting the authority of a guy like LaFleur, who played QB for Saginaw Valley State (?).

What does this have to do with it?

My point was that inflated egos can make people dumb. It shouldn't matter, but it might matter to a guy like AR.

[Pckfn23]

Now it might be the case that a future HOF like Rodgers is incapable of respecting the authority of a guy like LaFleur, who played QB for Saginaw Valley State (?).

What does this have to do with it?

My point was that inflated egos can make people dumb. It shouldn't matter, but it might matter to a guy like AR.

Sure, but I am not following, who has the inflated ego? Who is being dumb? Why does LaFleur's college choice matter?

When Aaron makes passive-aggressive comments about you to the media tell him diplomatically yet firmly to "STFU and let me do my job."

Do we know this didn't or is not happening? Are there rumors out there that LaFleur has lost the respect of his QB or other players?

[Yoop]

Now it might be the case that a future HOF like Rodgers is incapable of respecting the authority of a guy like LaFleur, who played QB for Saginaw Valley State (?).

What does this have to do with it?

My point was that inflated egos can make people dumb. It shouldn't matter, but it might matter to a guy like AR.

look at the circumstances Ben, first Rodgers is older then Lafluer and probably has more years involved with football, 2nd. when Lafluer was brought in Guty and Murphy smoothed out there relationship, with Rodgers having a voice in how the offense would evolve and also a part of game planning, Lafluer new what he was getting into.

When we see Rodgers upset I think most of it stems from being frustrated the play didn't work, hell plenty of his audibles don't work either, and I think Lafluer realizes he's mostly just venting and it's best to just let it go in one ear and out the other, personally I'd rather this Rodgers then the guy who goes to the end of the bench and pouts, I'am sure Lafluer does too.

I havn't seen any players quitting on Lafluer.

[Labrev]

No amount of Alpha Male d!ck waving is going to change the reality that Rodgers is "the man" in Green Bay and there is nothing any head coach can do about it. It's not because MLF is too beta, it's because that's reality.

He owes nothing to Gutey, Gute is not the guy who gave Rodgers his shot.

He owes nothing to MLF, MLF was not the guy who made him. You may try to argue MLF saved his career, but then AR can simply say he would have figured it out anyway and regardless, that MLF needs AR more than AR needs MLF.

This is why new coaches/GMs always change the QB; they want a QB who's indebted to them.

We did something fairly unheard of, we brought on a new coach expressly to solidify Rodgers as "the man" in town. MLF was destined to be Rodgers's lickspittle from the start. MLF can Alpha it up and try to boss Rodgers around all he wants but Rodgers will know it's no threat to him, Rodgers would just pull clout to make him cut it out or run him off the team.

[LombardiTime]

We did something fairly unheard of, we brought on a new coach expressly to solidify Rodgers as "the man" in town. MLF was destined to be Rodgers's lickspittle from the start. MLF can Alpha it up and try to boss Rodgers around all he wants but Rodgers will know it's no threat to him, Rodgers would just pull clout to make him cut it out or run him off the team.

We did something even more unheard of after MLF was brought in, in 2019, to supposedly solidify Rodgers as "the man" in town.

The very next year, coming off a 13-3 season and with Rodgers under contract for several more seasons and publicly stating his desire to play into his 40s and retire a Packer, we spent 1st and 4th round picks on Rodgers' replacement to be "the man" in town.

Gutey & MLF looked to be ecstatic on camera after the Packers traded up to select Love. The decision to expend 1st and 4th round picks on a QB with question marks was the talk of the 2020 draft both locally and nationally.

For some reason, I don't think a guy with a personality like Rodgers has forgotten that moment and I doubt he ever will.

[Yoop]

No amount of Alpha Male d!ck waving is going to change the reality that Rodgers is "the man" in Green Bay and there is nothing any head coach can do about it. It's not because MLF is too beta, it's because that's reality.

He owes nothing to Gutey, Gute is not the guy who gave Rodgers his shot.

He owes nothing to MLF, MLF was not the guy who made him. You may try to argue MLF saved his career, but then AR can simply say he would have figured it out anyway and regardless, that MLF needs AR more than AR needs MLF.

This is why new coaches/GMs always change the QB; they want a QB who's indebted to them.

We did something fairly unheard of, we brought on a new coach expressly to solidify Rodgers as "the man" in town. MLF was destined to be Rodgers's lickspittle from the start. MLF can Alpha it up and try to boss Rodgers around all he wants but Rodgers will know it's no threat to him, Rodgers would just pull clout to make him cut it out or run him off the team.

so then the ability to be a threat to others in your opinion is all that matters, and you don't believe Rodgers respects Lafluers ability as a coach, is that it?

I don't think anything you said is actually true 100%

first, Coaches don't trade or cut QB's unless the QB wants to leave, sucks, or is in decline, Favre threatened retirement each off season for about 5 years starting with Shermans last season, even then Ted could hardly pass on a QB most thought was best in class, and there are and have been old vet QB's traded every season to coaches they sure wont be indebted to, And Rodgers probably would have been a great QB under any HC.

the stuff about Lafluer resurrecting Rodgers career is a reach at best, as you said Rodgers had the ability to adapt to just about any scheme.

Murphy and Guty didn't bring Lafluer in to do any thing other then to install new offensive schemes, Rodgers was the main guy in town long before he got here, he became very rich and a first ballot HOFamer before Lafluer was even on the scene

[Labrev]

We did something fairly unheard of, we brought on a new coach expressly to solidify Rodgers as "the man" in town. MLF was destined to be Rodgers's lickspittle from the start. MLF can Alpha it up and try to boss Rodgers around all he wants but Rodgers will know it's no threat to him, Rodgers would just pull clout to make him cut it out or run him off the team.

We did something even more unheard of after MLF was brought in, in 2019, to supposedly solidify Rodgers as "the man" in town.

The very next year, coming off a 13-3 season and with Rodgers under contract for several more seasons and publicly stating his desire to play into his 40s and retire a Packer, we spent 1st and 4th round picks on Rodgers' replacement to be "the man" in town.

Gutey & MLF looked to be ecstatic on camera after the Packers traded up to select Love. The decision to expend 1st and 4th round picks on a QB with question marks was the talk of the 2020 draft both locally and nationally.

For some reason, I don't think a guy with a personality like Rodgers has forgotten that moment and I doubt he ever will.

That's not unheard of at all. That's actually the norm when a new coach or GM comes to a team: they get a QB to replace the incumbent.

New regimes mean new QBs, 9 times out of 10.

If Love showed well sooner and/or Rodgers didn't have MVP years after the Love pick, good chance Gute and MLF would have continued the trend; Rodgers was kinda sucking before he won the first of those two MVPs. There's still a 50-50 chance they will.

[Labrev]

No amount of Alpha Male d!ck waving is going to change the reality that Rodgers is "the man" in Green Bay and there is nothing any head coach can do about it. It's not because MLF is too beta, it's because that's reality.

He owes nothing to Gutey, Gute is not the guy who gave Rodgers his shot.

He owes nothing to MLF, MLF was not the guy who made him. You may try to argue MLF saved his career, but then AR can simply say he would have figured it out anyway and regardless, that MLF needs AR more than AR needs MLF.

This is why new coaches/GMs always change the QB; they want a QB who's indebted to them.

We did something fairly unheard of, we brought on a new coach expressly to solidify Rodgers as "the man" in town. MLF was destined to be Rodgers's lickspittle from the start. MLF can Alpha it up and try to boss Rodgers around all he wants but Rodgers will know it's no threat to him, Rodgers would just pull clout to make him cut it out or run him off the team.

so then the ability to be a threat to others in your opinion is all that matters, and you don't believe Rodgers respects Lafluers ability as a coach, is that it?

I don't think anything you said is actually true 100%

first, Coaches don't trade or cut QB's unless the QB wants to leave, sucks, or is in decline, Favre threatened retirement each off season for about 5 years starting with Shermans last season, even then Ted could hardly pass on a QB most thought was best in class, and there are and have been old vet QB's traded every season to coaches they sure wont be indebted to, And Rodgers probably would have been a great QB under any HC.

the stuff about Lafluer resurrecting Rodgers career is a reach at best, as you said Rodgers had the ability to adapt to just about any scheme.

Murphy and Guty didn't bring Lafluer in to do any thing other then to install new offensive schemes, Rodgers was the main guy in town long before he got here, he became very rich and a first ballot HOFamer before Lafluer was even on the scene

You really do just reply to posts to dispute any perceived slight against Rodgers, don't you?

That post really wasn't in any way one that impugns Rodgers, but since it's not 100% pro-Rodgers awesomeness, The RDF has to intervene against this grievous thought-crime; you guys are certified zealots.

[Yoop]

We did something fairly unheard of, we brought on a new coach expressly to solidify Rodgers as "the man" in town. MLF was destined to be Rodgers's lickspittle from the start. MLF can Alpha it up and try to boss Rodgers around all he wants but Rodgers will know it's no threat to him, Rodgers would just pull clout to make him cut it out or run him off the team.

We did something even more unheard of after MLF was brought in, in 2019, to supposedly solidify Rodgers as "the man" in town.

The very next year, coming off a 13-3 season and with Rodgers under contract for several more seasons and publicly stating his desire to play into his 40s and retire a Packer, we spent 1st and 4th round picks on Rodgers' replacement to be "the man" in town.

Gutey & MLF looked to be ecstatic on camera after the Packers traded up to select Love. The decision to expend 1st and 4th round picks on a QB with question marks was the talk of the 2020 draft both locally and nationally.

For some reason, I don't think a guy with a personality like Rodgers has forgotten that moment and I doubt he ever will.

That's not unheard of at all. That's actually the norm when a new coach or GM comes to a team: they get a QB to replace the incumbent.

New regimes mean new QBs, 9 times out of 10.

If Love showed well sooner and/or Rodgers didn't have MVP years after the Love pick, good chance Gute and MLF would have continued the trend; Rodgers was kinda sucking before he won the first of those two MVPs. There's still a 50-50 chance they will.

Rodgers wasn't sucking, McCarthy's play calling and schemes sucked, he wouldn't run the ball, and his spread vertical pass schemes lacked the talent to be successful, and his idea of up tempo was slants and curls that every DC in the league had 10 years of tape study to defend.

Maybe if Love had proven ready we may have traded Rodgers last off season, that might be true, however that wasn't the case and Rodgers did a deal that basically in his mind meant he would retire a GB Packer, I tend to belive the team will honor that

[Yoop]

The RDF has to intervene against this grievous thought-crime; you guys are certified zealots.

I'am certified and have papers to prove it

[Scott4Pack]

Prior to Thursday night's game I was telling my buddy that I thought we would lose because we have a comparative disadvantage with our HC. Vrabel is gritty and charismatic- the kind of guy you'd want to run through a wall for, as an athlete. Players respond to coaches whom they want to emulate. Did we ever see the same Clay Matthews after the departure of Kevin Greene as linebackers coach? "Alpha," "beta," call it whatever you want, I don't care. But there is something to leadership and the team just feels soft and uninspired under LaFleur.

It’s all about feelings in this world, ya know. Nothing else matters if we get to “air it out” with our feelings. Oh, yuck! It’s hard for me to write that kind of stuff, but there’s too much truth to it.

What the Pack needs is a good drill sergeant! “Take your feelings to the team psychologist. While you’re on the field, you’re mine! Now get down in the dirt and act like you love it!”
;-)

[Crazylegs Starks]

...
What the Pack needs is a good drill sergeant! “Take your feelings to the team psychologist. While you’re on the field, you’re mine! Now get down in the dirt and act like you love it!”
;-)

Isn't that what Matt Patricia tried to do in Detroit? When he got fired, it seemed like every current and ex-Lion was celebrating.

[Scott4Pack]

...
What the Pack needs is a good drill sergeant! “Take your feelings to the team psychologist. While you’re on the field, you’re mine! Now get down in the dirt and act like you love it!”
;-)

Isn't that what Matt Patricia tried to do in Detroit? When he got fired, it seemed like every current and ex-Lion was celebrating.

Sure. But maybe that’s the only way that he handled things. The point is that HC needs to be clear about goals and motivations. That is the main point.
:-)