Joe Barry reportedly to be hired as DC

[NCF]

The only thing GB seems to do well at on DC's is the DC's first year. Our defense gets considerably worse in year 2 for the exception of Capers in 2010.

That is kind of a strange phenomena isn’t it?

But I also think Pettine got a bad rap. He was a really good defensive coach for many years. Pretty much got named a HC just because of his ability to coach defense. I bet he would have been excellent with this personnel. He had a lot less weapons at his disposal including a secondary he felt was vulnerable. He played a lot of bend but don’t break, but truth is they didn’t break thaaaat much. They just bent alot. But he was probably terrified of starting Kevin king or whoever his backup was going to be due him being out, also never had premiere ILBs (just passive but sure tackler Martinez), and he was having to start Lowry on the DL with Lancaster being his top backup.

Barry has it a LOT better than Pettine did.

Edit: I will say tho to be fair, Pettine did kind of make his own bed. It appears Gutey went to him and asked him what he needed to be successful and he was pretty much given his wish list. At that point, it’s time to make it work. He asked for OLB and not DL. He asked for Amos and ignored ILB. So he’s got to own some of that.

But I really don’t think he did THAT bad. It just seemed to be about Lafleur “wanting to get his own guy in there”. Well, that seems to be working out just great

Pettine was fired because his defensive play call on the final play of the 1st half in the NFC Title game cost the Packers a Super Bowl.

That play call was so bad that it was a fireable offense.

I agree with this.

[Crazylegs Starks]

Fire this dude. 2 DL nickel all night against a running team is insane.

[Labrev]

Don't run him outta town just yet, he's got us positioned nicely for a Top-10 pick!

[APB]

Don't run him outta town just yet, he's got us positioned nicely for a Top-10 pick!

Yeah, and Gute will use it on a safety.

[texas]

All the hate for Barry is just due to the echo chamber. Fact is, he's nowhere near bad enough to deserve to be fired. The problem with the team this season is the offense by far. A better offense stays on the field longer and makes the defense look better. Plus all our guys regressed slightly, and some important players have been hurt. No way should we fire Barry yet.

Jaire's worse
Rasul's worse
Campbell's worse (and injured)
Stokes is worse (and injured)
Gary is injured
P Smith is slightly worse
Savage is worse
Amos is worse

idk about the D Line. But the rest of those guys comprise most of the defense. And they all aren't what they used to be. I was thinking we should move on from Amos because he isn't what he was, but then someone pointed out that even if he's not what he was, he is still better, right now, than many safeties we've had over the years. It's just that in his first 3 years here he was an unsung all-pro caliber safety, and now he seems to be missing the kinds of tackles he never used to miss. Now apply what I just wrote to like every other player too. Rasul and Campbell regressed to the mean a bit.

Definitely should not fire Barry yet, even after last night's debacle. If that happens in the playoffs, sure, it's a fireable offense. But given the circumstances, he merely gets put on notice after the Philly game.

[Acrobat]

All the hate for Barry is just due to the echo chamber. Fact is, he's nowhere near bad enough to deserve to be fired. The problem with the team this season is the offense by far. A better offense stays on the field longer and makes the defense look better. Plus all our guys regressed slightly, and some important players have been hurt. No way should we fire Barry yet.

Jaire's worse
Rasul's worse
Campbell's worse (and injured)
Stokes is worse (and injured)
Gary is injured
P Smith is slightly worse
Savage is worse
Amos is worse

idk about the D Line. But the rest of those guys comprise most of the defense. And they all aren't what they used to be. I was thinking we should move on from Amos because he isn't what he was, but then someone pointed out that even if he's not what he was, he is still better, right now, than many safeties we've had over the years. It's just that in his first 3 years here he was an unsung all-pro caliber safety, and now he seems to be missing the kinds of tackles he never used to miss. Now apply what I just wrote to like every other player too. Rasul and Campbell regressed to the mean a bit.

Definitely should not fire Barry yet, even after last night's debacle. If that happens in the playoffs, sure, it's a fireable offense. But given the circumstances, he merely gets put on notice after the Philly game.

Player regression in the masses is a coaching issue. Fire him.

[BF004]

All the hate for Barry is just due to the echo chamber. Fact is, he's nowhere near bad enough to deserve to be fired. The problem with the team this season is the offense by far. A better offense stays on the field longer and makes the defense look better. Plus all our guys regressed slightly, and some important players have been hurt. No way should we fire Barry yet.

Jaire's worse
Rasul's worse
Campbell's worse (and injured)
Stokes is worse (and injured)
Gary is injured
P Smith is slightly worse
Savage is worse
Amos is worse

I don’t care if we have to suit up 11 Ladarius Gunter’s, 363 rushing yards is an abomination.

I don’t really think talent or depth is a that big of an issue D.

[salmar80]

All the hate for Barry is just due to the echo chamber. Fact is, he's nowhere near bad enough to deserve to be fired. The problem with the team this season is the offense by far. A better offense stays on the field longer and makes the defense look better. Plus all our guys regressed slightly, and some important players have been hurt. No way should we fire Barry yet.

Jaire's worse
Rasul's worse
Campbell's worse (and injured)
Stokes is worse (and injured)
Gary is injured
P Smith is slightly worse
Savage is worse
Amos is worse

idk about the D Line. But the rest of those guys comprise most of the defense. And they all aren't what they used to be. I was thinking we should move on from Amos because he isn't what he was, but then someone pointed out that even if he's not what he was, he is still better, right now, than many safeties we've had over the years. It's just that in his first 3 years here he was an unsung all-pro caliber safety, and now he seems to be missing the kinds of tackles he never used to miss. Now apply what I just wrote to like every other player too. Rasul and Campbell regressed to the mean a bit.

Definitely should not fire Barry yet, even after last night's debacle. If that happens in the playoffs, sure, it's a fireable offense. But given the circumstances, he merely gets put on notice after the Philly game.

Player regression in the masses is a coaching issue. Fire him.

I think it's really weird that so many not-old guys seem to have regressed, yet somehow they've gotten bargain guys to play like gems in Rasul and Campbell last year and Nixon, Enagbare and Ford this year.

What happened to cause so many vets to regress or plateau? Did vets buy into the top 5 D hype and not train as hard in off-season?

I don't think Barry is any great genius, about average to little below DC. So I wouldn't riot if we did try to find someone better in off-season.

[Yoop]

we just a article here last week, I think 23 brought it, that offenses now are combatting the smaller DL pass rushers with running more, simply because size does matter, the 300 lb DT's get blown out, people complain that Clark has declined, imo it has more to do with the loss of Gary and he is over powered do to double teams on every play and he becomes worn down.

Barry compounds the problem using 20 fronts, and attempting to 2 gap them, 2 gapping DT's need to be in the 330 lb range, not 305 lbs, imho Barry should stick to coaching lbers, there the only part of this defense that plays consistently well, they have to or everyone would rack up 300 yrds running against the DL schemes Barry uses, Both Barry and Montgomery need to go collect a check somewhere else, Lafluer needs to can both or they'll drag him out the door with em.

[Pckfn23]

Jonathan Ford - 338 lbs
T.J. Slaton - 330 lbs
Kenny Clark - 314 lbs
Jarran Reed - 307 lbs
Devonte Wyatt - 304 lbs
Dean Lowry - 296 lbs

No team is playing 2 330+ DTs/NTs on a regular basis. Our problem is the 2nd paragraph. We went into this game asking a group that isn't particularly good at 2 gap run defense to play that exact thing against one of the best offensive lines in football. Then we came out in and were stuck with 2 guys who were 2 techniques or wider most of the game which both made it easy for double teams and allowed Kecle to get to the 2nd level unhindered. It took more than a quarter to realize we can't sit in nickel and 2 high, but by that time they had rattled off almost 200 yards on the ground. It was a completely tone deaf game plan by my cousin Barry.

[Labrev]

Yeah, I have been lenient on the D because the O couldn't sustain drives or top 17 points most weeks. When you give the other team's O countless chances and no lead to catch, eventually they will get through. And yet, we were not giving up points at a rate that was unreasonable to expect the MVP-led O to top.

But now it's in the inverse. The O is starting to play... not good football, but well enough to win, yet the D is going down the toilet.

This is looking like Mike Pettine in year two where they start out solid but end up playing historically bad, to a point where we lost in the playoffs to a team that called less than 10 pass plays. I regret that we gave him another season. I don't see much point in a mid-season firing for Barry because nobody else on the present staff appears more competent, but we need to clean house on D.

[Yoop]

Jonathan Ford - 338 lbs
T.J. Slaton - 330 lbs
Kenny Clark - 314 lbs
Jarran Reed - 307 lbs
Devonte Wyatt - 304 lbs
Dean Lowry - 296 lbs

No team is playing 2 330+ DTs/NTs on a regular basis. Our problem is the 2nd paragraph. We went into this game asking a group that isn't particularly good at 2 gap run defense to play that exact thing against one of the best offensive lines in football. Then we came out in and were stuck with 2 guys who were 2 techniques or wider most of the game which both made it easy for double teams and allowed Kecle to get to the 2nd level unhindered. It took more than a quarter to realize we can't sit in nickel and 2 high, but by that time they had rattled off almost 200 yards on the ground. It was a completely tone deaf game plan by my cousin Barry.

what are the snap counts for Slaton and Ford? both are backups

Clark and Reed/Lowery are the starters and none are big enough to two gap, We have a lack of beef issue in that scheme, and your cousin Barry refuses to use a base front.

now that the NFL is running more, pass rushing DT's just over 300 lbs are getting there ashes carried, specially so in 20 front nickel.

seriously what about our DL play has impressed you the last 4 seasons under Montgomery, or the last 2 with Barry stopping the run? like other teams our DT's best tech is rushing the passer and outside of Reed, the others have declined with that, when Barry goes Montgomery should go with him

[Pckfn23]

Jonathan Ford - 338 lbs
T.J. Slaton - 330 lbs
Kenny Clark - 314 lbs
Jarran Reed - 307 lbs
Devonte Wyatt - 304 lbs
Dean Lowry - 296 lbs

No team is playing 2 330+ DTs/NTs on a regular basis. Our problem is the 2nd paragraph. We went into this game asking a group that isn't particularly good at 2 gap run defense to play that exact thing against one of the best offensive lines in football. Then we came out in and were stuck with 2 guys who were 2 techniques or wider most of the game which both made it easy for double teams and allowed Kecle to get to the 2nd level unhindered. It took more than a quarter to realize we can't sit in nickel and 2 high, but by that time they had rattled off almost 200 yards on the ground. It was a completely tone deaf game plan by my cousin Barry.

what are the snap counts for Slaton and Ford? both are backups

Clark and Reed/Lowery are the starters and none are big enough to two gap, We have a lack of beef issue in that scheme, and your cousin Barry refuses to use a base front.

now that the NFL is running more, pass rushing DT's just over 300 lbs are getting there ashes carried, specially so in 20 front nickel.

seriously what about our DL play has impressed you the last 4 seasons under Montgomery, or the last 2 with Barry stopping the run? like other teams our DT's best tech is rushing the passer and outside of Reed, the others have declined with that, when Barry goes Montgomery should go with him

Impressed me? When did I say anything about being this even remotely impressed? Did you even read what I wrote?

Clark and Reed are most definitely big enough to 2 gap, but it isn't something they do well. 300+ pounds is without a doubt big enough. They don't have to be 330+ to do so. The vast majority of DTs in the league are under 315 pounds. The difference is that the attacking defenses might have only 1 DT 2 gapping or none. We consistently have 2 and that isn't the strength of the guys we are using.

How can this be different? Let's say we are in nickel even, play a 1 gap penetrations style run D. Each player is assigned 1 gap or at most 1 player is assigned 2. If we are looking at 4 wide and 1 back, and even in a 2-4, have the DTs play A or B, ILBs the opposite and out and the OLBs C/Edge. Mix is up with ILBs playing edge and OLBs sticking to the B. First step is penetration to the gap and then flat. Be a stump and don't get pushed past the gap. This also lends itself to pass rush.

[Yoop]

Jonathan Ford - 338 lbs
T.J. Slaton - 330 lbs
Kenny Clark - 314 lbs
Jarran Reed - 307 lbs
Devonte Wyatt - 304 lbs
Dean Lowry - 296 lbs

No team is playing 2 330+ DTs/NTs on a regular basis. Our problem is the 2nd paragraph. We went into this game asking a group that isn't particularly good at 2 gap run defense to play that exact thing against one of the best offensive lines in football. Then we came out in and were stuck with 2 guys who were 2 techniques or wider most of the game which both made it easy for double teams and allowed Kecle to get to the 2nd level unhindered. It took more than a quarter to realize we can't sit in nickel and 2 high, but by that time they had rattled off almost 200 yards on the ground. It was a completely tone deaf game plan by my cousin Barry.

what are the snap counts for Slaton and Ford? both are backups

Clark and Reed/Lowery are the starters and none are big enough to two gap, We have a lack of beef issue in that scheme, and your cousin Barry refuses to use a base front.

now that the NFL is running more, pass rushing DT's just over 300 lbs are getting there ashes carried, specially so in 20 front nickel.

seriously what about our DL play has impressed you the last 4 seasons under Montgomery, or the last 2 with Barry stopping the run? like other teams our DT's best tech is rushing the passer and outside of Reed, the others have declined with that, when Barry goes Montgomery should go with him

Impressed me? When did I say anything about being this even remotely impressed? Did you even read what I wrote?

Clark and Reed are most definitely big enough to 2 gap, but it isn't something they do well. 300+ pounds is without a doubt big enough. They don't have to be 330+ to do so. The vast majority of DTs in the league are under 315 pounds. The difference is that the attacking defenses might have only 1 DT 2 gapping or none. We consistently have 2 and that isn't the strength of the guys we are using.

How can this be different? Let's say we are in nickel even, play a 1 gap penetrations style run D. Each player is assigned 1 gap or at most 1 player is assigned 2. If we are looking at 4 wide and 1 back, and even in a 2-4, have the DTs play A or B, ILBs the opposite and out and the OLBs C/Edge. Mix is up with ILBs playing edge and OLBs sticking to the B. First step is penetration to the gap and then flat. Be a stump and don't get pushed past the gap. This also lends itself to pass rush.

that sounds good on paper, but hasn't transpired, lighter players get blown out of there gaps, and lbers flow in play direction, and that is what we have watched for 4 years or more, ya need the BJ Raji's or Gilbert Browns, that can eat a double block so the lbers stay clean and can flow back to the ball, I rarely see Clark actually double teamed, or anyone else either, they get a dedicated blocker and a chipper, and that chipper releases then goes to second level defenders ( Lbers or safety's) and takes them out of the play, and we get gashed for a 20 yrd run

teams are having more success running because DT's are now smaller to rush the QB, and there just aren't enough Aaron Donald types to go around, and one guy as good as Clark hasn't been enough, Reeds a good penetrating DT, but is handled easily trying to defend the run. your idea of penetrating DT's is soooooo inconsistent, and lbers playing the odd gaps is the same, we have watched that fail for 4 years or more.

[Pckfn23]

It definitely hasn't transpired because we haven't done it.

A 1 gap run defensive style isn't inconsistent, it's simply a different way to play the run. Buffalo does it more often than not. Tennessee does it.

Good run defense does not take several 330+ pound DTs to make it work. Take a look at SF, they do not have a single defensive lineman currently on their roster over 305. Best run defense in the NFL. Take a look at the Ravens, 1 guy over 304, Travis Jones and he plays 35% of the downs. How about the Titans? 1 guy over 305 and that is Naquan Jones who has played 20% of the snaps.

We are simply playing a read and react style of defense and have for many years now. There may be a year or several games where we take it to the offense, but overall that is what we have played on this team for a good while and it just is not working.

This is 2 weeks ago:


We got double teamed quite a bit last night.

We have several good penetrating DTs, but unfortunately we choose not to use them that way on a regular basis.

[Scott4Pack]

Firing a DC while the season progresses can damage the team, so I support MLF’s policy to wait for season’s end. That said, our Defense was 100% rolled over last night. That was embarrassing. It wasn’t enough to lose a game when our offense scored 30 points (despite two turnovers). But to give up so much rushing yardage is just putrid.

[Trudge]

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
In 2001, Barry was hired by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as their linebackers coach under defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin and head coach Tony Dungy. In 2002, Barry, along with Kiffin, were retained by the new head coach of the Buccaneers Jon Gruden. That season, the Buccaneers went to Super Bowl XXXVII and defeated the Oakland Raiders to win their first Super Bowl title.

Detroit Lions
In 2007, Barry was hired by the Detroit Lions as their defensive coordinator under head coach Rod Marinelli, who is also Barry's father-in-law.

At a press conference on December 21, 2008, following the Lions' 42–7 loss to the New Orleans Saints, Detroit News sports columnist Rob Parker addressed a question about Barry to Rod Marinelli, inquiring whether Marinelli wished that his daughter had "married a better defensive coordinator."[1] (Barry was the Lions' defensive coordinator at the time.) The question was criticized as unprofessional and inappropriate. The next day, Parker wrote that the comment was "an attempt at humor" and not a malicious attack.[2] Parker has not written for the Detroit News since, and has not attended any press conferences since the incident, including the one Marinelli gave following his dismissal as head coach of the Lions. On January 6, 2009, the Detroit News announced that Parker had resigned from the newspaper the previous week.[3] Following the firing of Marinelli, Barry was not retained by the Lions.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers (second stint)
In 2009, Barry returned and was re-hired by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as their linebackers coach under defensive coordinator Jim Bates and head coach Raheem Morris.

Jacksonville Jaguars & USC
On January 26, 2010, Barry was hired by the Jacksonville Jaguars and signed a contract to be their linebackers coach. That same day, it was announced that the Jaguars released Barry from his contract so he can join the University of Southern California (USC) as their linebackers coach.[4]

San Diego Chargers
In 2012, Barry was hired by the San Diego Chargers as their linebackers coach under defensive coordinator John Pagano and head coach Norv Turner. In 2013, Barry was retained by new Chargers head coach Mike McCoy.

Washington Commanders
In 2015, Barry was hired by the Washington Commanders as their defensive coordinator under head coach Jay Gruden. Following the 2016 season, Barry was fired.[5]

Los Angeles Rams
On January 14, 2017, Barry was hired by the Los Angeles Rams as their assistant head coach and linebackers coach under head coach Sean McVay.[6]

[Pckfn23]

Interesting thought. We hire older DCs. In the last 14 seasons our defensive coordinators have been 50+ in each of those seasons. Half the top defenses in the league right now are ran by guys under 45 and several by guys under 40. Maybe our issue is that we have coaches set in their ways and unwilling to adapt to the players they have.

[Foosball]

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t LaFleur hire Barry explicitly to run a specific defense? Rams style?

[Pckfn23]

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t LaFleur hire Barry explicitly to run a specific defense?

Was supposed to be aggressive... Has even been commented on by LaFleur this season that it needs to be more aggressive.