Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts

[Yoop]

I remember folks complained of Capers off coverage and prevent defenses, Barry gives that stuff a whole new meaning, 10 yrd cushions.

I thought Jerry Gray was a good secondary coach and passing game cord, but this stuff is also his responsibility, and that coverage was atrocious.

[wallyuwl]

I remember folks complained of Capers off coverage and prevent defenses, Barry gives that stuff a whole new meaning, 10 yrd cushions.

I thought Jerry Gray was a good secondary coach and passing game cord, but this stuff is also his responsibility, and that coverage was atrocious.

I wonder who decides cushion. Barry? Gray? The DB and what he feels comfortable with? Some mixture? WRs must love playing this defense, though.

[LombardiTime]

I remember folks complained of Capers off coverage and prevent defenses, Barry gives that stuff a whole new meaning, 10 yrd cushions.

I thought Jerry Gray was a good secondary coach and passing game cord, but this stuff is also his responsibility, and that coverage was atrocious.

I wonder who decides cushion. Barry? Gray? The DB and what he feels comfortable with? Some mixture? WRs must love playing this defense, though.

I'm sure WRs love playing against this defense.

I am even more sure RBs, running QBs, and offensive coordinators like playing against it even more knowing they will be able to run the ball unless the Packers completely sell out to stop the run, which then allows a guy like Tannehill to have a career game against it.

GB is 31st in run defense (just .2 yards per game ahead of Houston).

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/o ... s-per-game

The run defense has been bad for a long time. I mean we all witnessed Kap exploit Capers' defense in the playoff game and then watched Garoppolo throw just 8 passes while SF ran the ball down our throats in the 2019 playoff loss.

The team's approach to stopping the run seems to be likes its approach to Special Teams until this past offseason, it really does not care so nothing really changes.

It is such a strange phenomenon to continuously struggle on defense and yet seem to be unconcerned about stopping the most basic thing in football; preventing the other team from running the ball against you. And this has been true under Capers, Pettine, and now Barry.

[Labrev]

I thought they were actually pretty good at stopping the run last year, one of many reasons why the present catastrophe on D has been so weird.

[Yoop]

I remember folks complained of Capers off coverage and prevent defenses, Barry gives that stuff a whole new meaning, 10 yrd cushions.

I thought Jerry Gray was a good secondary coach and passing game cord, but this stuff is also his responsibility, and that coverage was atrocious.

I wonder who decides cushion. Barry? Gray? The DB and what he feels comfortable with? Some mixture? WRs must love playing this defense, though.

I'm sure WRs love playing against this defense.

I am even more sure RBs, running QBs, and offensive coordinators like playing against it even more knowing they will be able to run the ball unless the Packers completely sell out to stop the run, which then allows a guy like Tannehill to have a career game against it.

GB is 31st in run defense (just .2 yards per game ahead of Houston).

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/o ... s-per-game

The run defense has been bad for a long time. I mean we all witnessed Kap exploit Capers' defense in the playoff game and then watched Garoppolo throw just 8 passes while SF ran the ball down our throats in the 2019 playoff loss.

The team's approach to stopping the run seems to be likes its approach to Special Teams until this past offseason, it really does not care so nothing really changes.

It is such a strange phenomenon to continuously struggle on defense and yet seem to be unconcerned about stopping the most basic thing in football; preventing the other team from running the ball against you. And this has been true under Capers, Pettine, and now Barry.

Capers best run defense imo was when he had Jenkins and Raji, Bishop and Hawk, imo ya need that big NT and then a 3 tech like Clark as the featured starters, everything is devoted to pass rush, and nickel fronts and we get pushed around.

[LombardiTime]

I thought they were actually pretty good at stopping the run last year, one of many reasons why the present catastrophe on D has been so weird.

You are correct, they were #10 against the run in 2021 and I also (foolishly) thought that with the additions of Reed, Wyatt and Walker and losing only really Lancaster the run D would actually improve in 2022.

In retrospect, with the Pack well ahead in most of their games while finishing 13-4, the run defense was not exactly stressed in 2021 as teams were mostly throwing while playing from behind (and the same was true in 2020 when the run D also finished 10th overall though not 2019).

I think others have suggested that that one possible ongoing defensive philosophy has been that with Rodgers and the offense mostly humming over the past several years the Packers have not focused much on stopping the run because they did not anticipate being behind much.

Who knows? I know I don't.

[Labrev]

Raji wasn't really much of a two-gap plugger, even if he was 320 at 6'1. That was more Pickett's thing. Raji was way more effective if you let him one-gap and be a bulldozer. He had pretty crazy athleticism for a guy well over 300 lbs.

[Yoop]

I thought they were actually pretty good at stopping the run last year, one of many reasons why the present catastrophe on D has been so weird.

ehh, not so fast Grasshopper

not according to Acme, we have been so bad against the run for so long (except 2017) that we take it for granted.

This is a big problem. Last year’s team, in Joe Barry’s first season, was the second-worst run defense of the last decade for the Packers. That this year has gotten substantially worse is stunning.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-t ... e-packers-

[Yoop]

Raji wasn't really much of a two-gap plugger, even if he was 320 at 6'1. That was more Pickett's thing. Raji was way more effective if you let him one-gap and be a bulldozer. He had pretty crazy athleticism for a guy well over 300 lbs.

Raji hadn't weighed 320 since his senior year in HS, BJ played at plus 330 his whole time in GB, and he was doubled whether at NT or in a gap, the point is he ate up two offensive lineman, w2hile his tackle numbers werent that high, he kept the lbers clean to make those tackles, name any DT that we now have that can do that, I know your gonna say Clark, but we don't see that very much from him, same with Slaton, most of the time I see him blown out, neither can consistently hold there ground against doubles.

[Pckfn23]

Raji wasn't really much of a two-gap plugger, even if he was 320 at 6'1. That was more Pickett's thing. Raji was way more effective if you let him one-gap and be a bulldozer. He had pretty crazy athleticism for a guy well over 300 lbs.

Spot on. His game was in his athleticism for a 330+ pounder. While he was an ok 2 gap run stuffer, he was much better as a 1 step penetrating defensive lineman. Pickett and Greene were those 2 gap guys on the 2010 team.

[go pak go]

Is the answer needing to rely more on Slayton being a 2 gapper? Should we target another 2 gapper this offseason?

Waytt and Clark seem to be better fitted for 1 gap penetrator. I think Reed excels at this as well and I would bring back if he is cheap.

I thought Slayton was effective when out there. But he doesn't get the consistent playing time.

[Yoop]

Raji wasn't really much of a two-gap plugger, even if he was 320 at 6'1. That was more Pickett's thing. Raji was way more effective if you let him one-gap and be a bulldozer. He had pretty crazy athleticism for a guy well over 300 lbs.

Spot on. His game was in his athleticism for a 330+ pounder. While he was an ok 2 gap run stuffer, he was much better as a 1 step penetrating defensive lineman. Pickett and Greene were those 2 gap guys on the 2010 team.

one weighed 340+ another 330+ and the light guy weighed a measly 320+ thats what it takes to stop the run, but rarely did Capers put all 3 on the field and Raji did plenty of 2 gapping and NT work

and when we used just 2 often both 2 gapped

[APB]

I thought they were actually pretty good at stopping the run last year, one of many reasons why the present catastrophe on D has been so weird.

You are correct, they were #10 against the run in 2021...

By what measure? Rush yards allowed per game? According to NFL.com, the Packers defense had the 4th fewest rush attempts against them. I suppose by that measure they damn well should look good...but it wasn't because they were actually good at stopping the run.

The real tell is yards allowed/attempt. By that measure, the Packer defense allowed 4.7 yds/att and ranked 30th of 32 teams. Eww.

[Pckfn23]

Is the answer needing to rely more on Slayton being a 2 gapper? Should we target another 2 gapper this offseason?

Waytt and Clark seem to be better fitted for 1 gap penetrator. I think Reed excels at this as well and I would bring back if he is cheap.

I thought Slayton was effective when out there. But he doesn't get the consistent playing time.

Play to the player strength. If they aren't good at 2 gapping and standing up to double teams, play a 1 gap run defense. The Bills and Titans definitely do it. The 3-4 Under that made the Legion of Boom did it. It can't be any worse than what we are seeing now.

[NCF]

I thought they were actually pretty good at stopping the run last year, one of many reasons why the present catastrophe on D has been so weird.

Not caring about run defense played into their strategy more effectively when they had a more talented offense and were playing from ahead far more often. The defensive woes are being exposed for what it is now... a really stupid strategy.

[Yoop]

I thought they were actually pretty good at stopping the run last year, one of many reasons why the present catastrophe on D has been so weird.

You are correct, they were #10 against the run in 2021...

By what measure? Rush yards allowed per game? According to NFL.com, the Packers defense had the 4th fewest rush attempts against them. I suppose by that measure they damn well should look good...but it wasn't because they were actually good at stopping the run.

The real tell is yards allowed/attempt. By that measure, the Packer defense allowed 4.7 yds/att and ranked 30th of 32 teams. Eww.

yep, the run defense wasn't much better in 2021 either, look hard enough and you can find a stat to support whatever you want to say

[Pckfn23]

Raji wasn't really much of a two-gap plugger, even if he was 320 at 6'1. That was more Pickett's thing. Raji was way more effective if you let him one-gap and be a bulldozer. He had pretty crazy athleticism for a guy well over 300 lbs.

Spot on. His game was in his athleticism for a 330+ pounder. While he was an ok 2 gap run stuffer, he was much better as a 1 step penetrating defensive lineman. Pickett and Greene were those 2 gap guys on the 2010 team.

one weighed 340+ another 330+ and the light guy weighed a measly 320+ thats what it takes to stop the run, but rarely did Capers put all 3 on the field and Raji did plenty of 2 gapping and NT work

and when we used just 2 often both 2 gapped

Just FYI, we gave up 4.7 yards a carry in 2010...

[Yoop]

Is the answer needing to rely more on Slayton being a 2 gapper? Should we target another 2 gapper this offseason?

Waytt and Clark seem to be better fitted for 1 gap penetrator. I think Reed excels at this as well and I would bring back if he is cheap.

I thought Slayton was effective when out there. But he doesn't get the consistent playing time.

Player to the player strength. If they aren't good at 2 gapping and standing up to double teams, play a 1 gap run defense. The Bills and Titans definitely do it. The 3-4 Under that made the Legion of Boom did it. It can't be any worse than what we are seeing now.

could that be because they play more 30 front (base, no nickel) and have better DT's?

w2hy you keep bringing this up, when only several teams in the league have success doing it is so apples to oranges from what we've seen here when we attempt it

[Pckfn23]

Is the answer needing to rely more on Slayton being a 2 gapper? Should we target another 2 gapper this offseason?

Waytt and Clark seem to be better fitted for 1 gap penetrator. I think Reed excels at this as well and I would bring back if he is cheap.

I thought Slayton was effective when out there. But he doesn't get the consistent playing time.

Player to the player strength. If they aren't good at 2 gapping and standing up to double teams, play a 1 gap run defense. The Bills and Titans definitely do it. The 3-4 Under that made the Legion of Boom did it. It can't be any worse than what we are seeing now.

could that be because they play more 30 front (base, no nickel) and have better DT's?

w2hy you keep bringing this up, when only several teams in the league have success doing it is so apples to oranges from what we've seen here when we attempt it

It means that a 1 gap run defense can and does work. It is simply a different mentality. And no, it isn't because they play appreciably more 30 fronts... The Bills don't even play a 3-4 defense...

[Drj820]

the answer is to let the defense play with a lead. Let them pen their ears back and force the O to need to pass. We had the opponents in that position often last year, and thats why the mirage was available that the run d was better last year.