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Sorry to open this can of worms, but... I think we now can safely rule out the idea Rodgers threw games to get Mac, TT, or whoever fired, or to otherwise passive-aggressively tell someone or another that he needs more help.
He has not had more inferior receiving options than this season. There was more reason to be hopeless than those years, because our odds of making the playoffs were so low and the team was in general in greater disarray than most years we have seen, yet he insisted we had a shot and needed to keep playing for it, and even played through injuries despite how much of a longshot it was to save our season.
not sure if this is directed at me Labrev, but at no time did I ever say Rodgers THREW GAMES to get Mike fired, rather that he didn't like the play calling and schemes, Rodgers openly said that to the media, your exaggerating comments I made, and it was beyond obvious Rodgers simply refused to throw to check down receivers when the deep routes where covered, but never in the waning minutes of those games, why? because Mikes game plan revolved around deep routes, and dump offs, he didn't want to run the ball and his short route uptempo passes where slants, and thats about it, the reason McCarthy was fired is do to never evolving his game plans and offensive schemes and we no longer had the receiver that made those iso vertical routes work, of course he needed more help, the receiver situation was 1 quality receiver running 9 routes into double coverage, over and over, the offense lacked diversity till Lafluer arrived for about 3 years, it was high time we got a new HC.
Yeah I believe you were one of the people that said something like Rodgers trying to get them (maybe it wasn't Mike, but him or Ted) fired, either that or to "tell them" he needed help i.e. WRs, although I admit I don't remember fully.
Lupe *definitely* said it though, that I know for sure.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
Sorry to open this can of worms, but... I think we now can safely rule out the idea Rodgers threw games to get Mac, TT, or whoever fired, or to otherwise passive-aggressively tell someone or another that he needs more help.
He has not had more inferior receiving options than this season. There was more reason to be hopeless than those years, because our odds of making the playoffs were so low and the team was in general in greater disarray than most years we have seen, yet he insisted we had a shot and needed to keep playing for it, and even played through injuries despite how much of a longshot it was to save our season.
not sure if this is directed at me Labrev, but at no time did I ever say Rodgers THREW GAMES to get Mike fired, rather that he didn't like the play calling and schemes, Rodgers openly said that to the media, your exaggerating comments I made, and it was beyond obvious Rodgers simply refused to throw to check down receivers when the deep routes where covered, but never in the waning minutes of those games, why? because Mikes game plan revolved around deep routes, and dump offs, he didn't want to run the ball and his short route uptempo passes where slants, and thats about it, the reason McCarthy was fired is do to never evolving his game plans and offensive schemes and we no longer had the receiver that made those iso vertical routes work, of course he needed more help, the receiver situation was 1 quality receiver running 9 routes into double coverage, over and over, the offense lacked diversity till Lafluer arrived for about 3 years, it was high time we got a new HC.
Yeah I believe you were one of the people that said something like Rodgers trying to get them (maybe it wasn't Mike, but him or Ted) fired, either that or to "tell them" he needed help i.e. WRs, although I admit I don't remember fully.
Lupe *definitely* said it though, that I know for sure.
players want to win, at least that seems obvious in the case of our QB, but if people don't think players send messages with the way they play at times, there being naive, and it doesn't mean they do it to lose games, it simply means they don't like there job responsibility's, which may have been the case with Savage this season, or Rodgers several years back, or Alexander after that loss to the vikings, or Clark with his lacklustre play till Barry quit asking him to two gap so much.
I actually don't remember Lupe saying what your accusing him of either
of course Rodgers needed help, anyone that thinks we didn't need receiver help is licking Guty's balls, go ask anyone with a football IQ above yours if we didn't need better then what we had from 016 till Guty finally took a couple that didn't need to be coached up forever this last draft, go look how winning teams have set up there receiver group, this insanity that it's all Rodgers fault for whats transpired here is a idiotic, Lupe is spot on with that.
what is it that you don't get, 5 to 7 dropped passes a game aint Rodgers fault, and that was the course of things for half this season, it was the reason we lost the PO game in 2020, dropped passes is not a QB problem sonny.
Sorry to open this can of worms, but... I think we now can safely rule out the idea Rodgers threw games to get Mac, TT, or whoever fired, or to otherwise passive-aggressively tell someone or another that he needs more help.
He has not had more inferior receiving options than this season. There was more reason to be hopeless than those years, because our odds of making the playoffs were so low and the team was in general in greater disarray than most years we have seen, yet he insisted we had a shot and needed to keep playing for it, and even played through injuries despite how much of a longshot it was to save our season.
Frankly, if people want to char over beer and brats about the possibility of any player throwing games (let alone a great one), fine. But in reality, there isn’t going to be a guy of Rodgers’ caliber who is going to throw games. He’s too much of a competitor to do so. Great players just play to win and it’s rare when they take plays off, let alone throw games.
Yeah, people can always find an exception. Let them keep that around the beer and brats. Lol.
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Rodgers cares way to much about individual stats to ever intentionally hurt his QBR or completion percentage. The theory was always dumb.
very funny, I suppose thats why he throws so many deep lower % passes, he still doesn't have the best chemistry with the receivers yet, and yes he's probably lost a little deep ball accuracy, but those skills don't just disappear in one off season, and a some of those incompletions where catchable balls.
I hear this all the time, Rodgers is a stat monitor, but the goal of a QB is to not throw picks, refrain from throwing into double coverage, try not to be sacked, all good stuff, I guess I just don't understand your comment
Rodgers cares way to much about individual stats to ever intentionally hurt his QBR or completion percentage. The theory was always dumb.
very funny, I suppose thats why he throws so many deep lower % passes, he still doesn't have the best chemistry with the receivers yet, and yes he's probably lost a little deep ball accuracy, but those skills don't just disappear in one off season, and a some of those incompletions where catchable balls.
I hear this all the time, Rodgers is a stat monitor, but the goal of a QB is to not throw picks, refrain from throwing into double coverage, try not to be sacked, all good stuff, I guess I just don't understand your comment
My comment is just dismissive of the idea that Rodgers throws games to get rid of his coaches. I think he has the power to get rid of anyone in the org already without doing anything of the sort on the field.
not sure if this is directed at me Labrev, but at no time did I ever say Rodgers THREW GAMES to get Mike fired, rather that he didn't like the play calling and schemes, Rodgers openly said that to the media, your exaggerating comments I made, and it was beyond obvious Rodgers simply refused to throw to check down receivers when the deep routes where covered, but never in the waning minutes of those games, why? because Mikes game plan revolved around deep routes, and dump offs, he didn't want to run the ball and his short route uptempo passes where slants, and thats about it, the reason McCarthy was fired is do to never evolving his game plans and offensive schemes and we no longer had the receiver that made those iso vertical routes work, of course he needed more help, the receiver situation was 1 quality receiver running 9 routes into double coverage, over and over, the offense lacked diversity till Lafluer arrived for about 3 years, it was high time we got a new HC.
Yeah I believe you were one of the people that said something like Rodgers trying to get them (maybe it wasn't Mike, but him or Ted) fired, either that or to "tell them" he needed help i.e. WRs, although I admit I don't remember fully.
Lupe *definitely* said it though, that I know for sure.
players want to win, at least that seems obvious in the case of our QB, but if people don't think players send messages with the way they play at times, there being naive, and it doesn't mean they do it to lose games, it simply means they don't like there job responsibility's, which may have been the case with Savage this season, or Rodgers several years back, or Alexander after that loss to the vikings, or Clark with his lacklustre play till Barry quit asking him to two gap so much.
I actually don't remember Lupe saying what your accusing him of either
of course Rodgers needed help, anyone that thinks we didn't need receiver help is licking Guty's balls, go ask anyone with a football IQ above yours if we didn't need better then what we had from 016 till Guty finally took a couple that didn't need to be coached up forever this last draft, go look how winning teams have set up there receiver group, this insanity that it's all Rodgers fault for whats transpired here is a idiotic, Lupe is spot on with that.
what is it that you don't get, 5 to 7 dropped passes a game aint Rodgers fault, and that was the course of things for half this season, it was the reason we lost the PO game in 2020, dropped passes is not a QB problem sonny.
Yes, if there are 5-7 passes dropped per game and it is all the receivers that are dropping them, it probably IS the QB's fault. Say QB #1 throws 20 catchable passes in a game. 14 are good passes and 6 are not. Of the not so good passes, half (3) are dropped. Those are not the QB's fault, nor are they the receiver's fault, that is simply the nature of the game played by human beings. But QB#2 throws the same 20 "catchable" passes but only 8 are good passes that hit the receiver in stride and are not too high or too low or get the receiver a concussion a half second after the ball arrives. Of those 12 not-so-good passes, half will also be dropped but in the case of QB#2, that is 6 dropped passes, not 2. Some of us are watching football played by human beings, are you sure you are not watching Madden? Because I remember seeing Rodgers throwing behind his receiver, throwing at knee height or making the receiver jump with perfect timing. I remember a boat load of not very good passes from Rodgers this season.
Yeah I believe you were one of the people that said something like Rodgers trying to get them (maybe it wasn't Mike, but him or Ted) fired, either that or to "tell them" he needed help i.e. WRs, although I admit I don't remember fully.
Lupe *definitely* said it though, that I know for sure.
players want to win, at least that seems obvious in the case of our QB, but if people don't think players send messages with the way they play at times, there being naive, and it doesn't mean they do it to lose games, it simply means they don't like there job responsibility's, which may have been the case with Savage this season, or Rodgers several years back, or Alexander after that loss to the vikings, or Clark with his lacklustre play till Barry quit asking him to two gap so much.
I actually don't remember Lupe saying what your accusing him of either
of course Rodgers needed help, anyone that thinks we didn't need receiver help is licking Guty's balls, go ask anyone with a football IQ above yours if we didn't need better then what we had from 016 till Guty finally took a couple that didn't need to be coached up forever this last draft, go look how winning teams have set up there receiver group, this insanity that it's all Rodgers fault for whats transpired here is a idiotic, Lupe is spot on with that.
what is it that you don't get, 5 to 7 dropped passes a game aint Rodgers fault, and that was the course of things for half this season, it was the reason we lost the PO game in 2020, dropped passes is not a QB problem sonny.
Yes, if there are 5-7 passes dropped per game and it is all the receivers that are dropping them, it probably IS the QB's fault. Say QB #1 throws 20 catchable passes in a game. 14 are good passes and 6 are not. Of the not so good passes, half (3) are dropped. Those are not the QB's fault, nor are they the receiver's fault, that is simply the nature of the game played by human beings. But QB#2 throws the same 20 "catchable" passes but only 8 are good passes that hit the receiver in stride and are not too high or too low or get the receiver a concussion a half second after the ball arrives. Of those 12 not-so-good passes, half will also be dropped but in the case of QB#2, that is 6 dropped passes, not 2. Some of us are watching football played by human beings, are you sure you are not watching Madden? Because I remember seeing Rodgers throwing behind his receiver, throwing at knee height or making the receiver jump with perfect timing. I remember a boat load of not very good passes from Rodgers this season.
Great post. The whole 5 to 7 passes dropped thing is such a made up number to push a narrative. If our players were truly dropping 7 a game...the whole world would know about it.
I know there is some room to expect a WR to catch balls beyond the "dropped" stat but it's nowhere near 5 to 7 drops per game. No NFL team would ever approach that.
Right now the worst team in the league in terms of drops is Tampa Bay. The fewest is Atlanta.
Tampa Bay - 1.8 drops per game
Atlanta - 0.56 drops per game
players want to win, at least that seems obvious in the case of our QB, but if people don't think players send messages with the way they play at times, there being naive, and it doesn't mean they do it to lose games, it simply means they don't like there job responsibility's, which may have been the case with Savage this season, or Rodgers several years back, or Alexander after that loss to the vikings, or Clark with his lacklustre play till Barry quit asking him to two gap so much.
I actually don't remember Lupe saying what your accusing him of either
of course Rodgers needed help, anyone that thinks we didn't need receiver help is licking Guty's balls, go ask anyone with a football IQ above yours if we didn't need better then what we had from 016 till Guty finally took a couple that didn't need to be coached up forever this last draft, go look how winning teams have set up there receiver group, this insanity that it's all Rodgers fault for whats transpired here is a idiotic, Lupe is spot on with that.
what is it that you don't get, 5 to 7 dropped passes a game aint Rodgers fault, and that was the course of things for half this season, it was the reason we lost the PO game in 2020, dropped passes is not a QB problem sonny.
Yes, if there are 5-7 passes dropped per game and it is all the receivers that are dropping them, it probably IS the QB's fault. Say QB #1 throws 20 catchable passes in a game. 14 are good passes and 6 are not. Of the not so good passes, half (3) are dropped. Those are not the QB's fault, nor are they the receiver's fault, that is simply the nature of the game played by human beings. But QB#2 throws the same 20 "catchable" passes but only 8 are good passes that hit the receiver in stride and are not too high or too low or get the receiver a concussion a half second after the ball arrives. Of those 12 not-so-good passes, half will also be dropped but in the case of QB#2, that is 6 dropped passes, not 2. Some of us are watching football played by human beings, are you sure you are not watching Madden? Because I remember seeing Rodgers throwing behind his receiver, throwing at knee height or making the receiver jump with perfect timing. I remember a boat load of not very good passes from Rodgers this season.
Great post. The whole 5 to 7 passes dropped thing is such a made up number to push a narrative. If our players were truly dropping 7 a game...the whole world would know about it.
I know there is some room to expect a WR to catch balls beyond the "dropped" stat but it's nowhere near 5 to 7 drops per game. No NFL team would ever approach that.
Right now the worst team in the league in terms of drops is Tampa Bay. The fewest is Atlanta.
Tampa Bay - 1.8 drops per game
Atlanta - 0.56 drops per game
Hey now, don’t make me reconsider my stance with facts and evidence.
players want to win, at least that seems obvious in the case of our QB, but if people don't think players send messages with the way they play at times, there being naive, and it doesn't mean they do it to lose games, it simply means they don't like there job responsibility's, which may have been the case with Savage this season, or Rodgers several years back, or Alexander after that loss to the vikings, or Clark with his lacklustre play till Barry quit asking him to two gap so much.
I actually don't remember Lupe saying what your accusing him of either
of course Rodgers needed help, anyone that thinks we didn't need receiver help is licking Guty's balls, go ask anyone with a football IQ above yours if we didn't need better then what we had from 016 till Guty finally took a couple that didn't need to be coached up forever this last draft, go look how winning teams have set up there receiver group, this insanity that it's all Rodgers fault for whats transpired here is a idiotic, Lupe is spot on with that.
what is it that you don't get, 5 to 7 dropped passes a game aint Rodgers fault, and that was the course of things for half this season, it was the reason we lost the PO game in 2020, dropped passes is not a QB problem sonny.
Yes, if there are 5-7 passes dropped per game and it is all the receivers that are dropping them, it probably IS the QB's fault. Say QB #1 throws 20 catchable passes in a game. 14 are good passes and 6 are not. Of the not so good passes, half (3) are dropped. Those are not the QB's fault, nor are they the receiver's fault, that is simply the nature of the game played by human beings. But QB#2 throws the same 20 "catchable" passes but only 8 are good passes that hit the receiver in stride and are not too high or too low or get the receiver a concussion a half second after the ball arrives. Of those 12 not-so-good passes, half will also be dropped but in the case of QB#2, that is 6 dropped passes, not 2. Some of us are watching football played by human beings, are you sure you are not watching Madden? Because I remember seeing Rodgers throwing behind his receiver, throwing at knee height or making the receiver jump with perfect timing. I remember a boat load of not very good passes from Rodgers this season.
Great post. The whole 5 to 7 passes dropped thing is such a made up number to push a narrative. If our players were truly dropping 7 a game...the whole world would know about it.
I know there is some room to expect a WR to catch balls beyond the "dropped" stat but it's nowhere near 5 to 7 drops per game. No NFL team would ever approach that.
Right now the worst team in the league in terms of drops is Tampa Bay. The fewest is Atlanta.
Tampa Bay - 1.8 drops per game
Atlanta - 0.56 drops per game
drops decide the outcome of games, drops stall drives, we had a recorded 7 dropped passes in the 2020 PO loss.
and for the first 5 to 7 games this season our receivers dropped a lot of passes, this isn't any made up crap like you and Skeptic are using to slight Rodgers, yes teams do average a couple drops a game, but even announcers pointed out those early season drops, when the ball is close enough for receivers to get both hands on the ball and don't catch it, thats a receiver issue, heck we had about 3 drops last week, the lengths some will go to defend these receivers in order to blame Rodgers is ridiculous.
and where did you dig up those stats, complete BS.
Yes, if there are 5-7 passes dropped per game and it is all the receivers that are dropping them, it probably IS the QB's fault. Say QB #1 throws 20 catchable passes in a game. 14 are good passes and 6 are not. Of the not so good passes, half (3) are dropped. Those are not the QB's fault, nor are they the receiver's fault, that is simply the nature of the game played by human beings. But QB#2 throws the same 20 "catchable" passes but only 8 are good passes that hit the receiver in stride and are not too high or too low or get the receiver a concussion a half second after the ball arrives. Of those 12 not-so-good passes, half will also be dropped but in the case of QB#2, that is 6 dropped passes, not 2. Some of us are watching football played by human beings, are you sure you are not watching Madden? Because I remember seeing Rodgers throwing behind his receiver, throwing at knee height or making the receiver jump with perfect timing. I remember a boat load of not very good passes from Rodgers this season.
Great post. The whole 5 to 7 passes dropped thing is such a made up number to push a narrative. If our players were truly dropping 7 a game...the whole world would know about it.
I know there is some room to expect a WR to catch balls beyond the "dropped" stat but it's nowhere near 5 to 7 drops per game. No NFL team would ever approach that.
Right now the worst team in the league in terms of drops is Tampa Bay. The fewest is Atlanta.
Tampa Bay - 1.8 drops per game
Atlanta - 0.56 drops per game
Hey now, don’t make me reconsider my stance with facts and evidence.
why would anyone do that? common sense and the simple eye test easily shows these stats are false and innacurate
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Yeah I believe you were one of the people that said something like Rodgers trying to get them (maybe it wasn't Mike, but him or Ted) fired, either that or to "tell them" he needed help i.e. WRs, although I admit I don't remember fully.
Lupe *definitely* said it though, that I know for sure.
players want to win, at least that seems obvious in the case of our QB, but if people don't think players send messages with the way they play at times, there being naive, and it doesn't mean they do it to lose games, it simply means they don't like there job responsibility's, which may have been the case with Savage this season, or Rodgers several years back, or Alexander after that loss to the vikings, or Clark with his lacklustre play till Barry quit asking him to two gap so much.
I actually don't remember Lupe saying what your accusing him of either
of course Rodgers needed help, anyone that thinks we didn't need receiver help is licking Guty's balls, go ask anyone with a football IQ above yours if we didn't need better then what we had from 016 till Guty finally took a couple that didn't need to be coached up forever this last draft, go look how winning teams have set up there receiver group, this insanity that it's all Rodgers fault for whats transpired here is a idiotic, Lupe is spot on with that.
what is it that you don't get, 5 to 7 dropped passes a game aint Rodgers fault, and that was the course of things for half this season, it was the reason we lost the PO game in 2020, dropped passes is not a QB problem sonny.
Yes, if there are 5-7 passes dropped per game and it is all the receivers that are dropping them, it probably IS the QB's fault. Say QB #1 throws 20 catchable passes in a game. 14 are good passes and 6 are not. Of the not so good passes, half (3) are dropped. Those are not the QB's fault, nor are they the receiver's fault, that is simply the nature of the game played by human beings. But QB#2 throws the same 20 "catchable" passes but only 8 are good passes that hit the receiver in stride and are not too high or too low or get the receiver a concussion a half second after the ball arrives. Of those 12 not-so-good passes, half will also be dropped but in the case of QB#2, that is 6 dropped passes, not 2. Some of us are watching football played by human beings, are you sure you are not watching Madden? Because I remember seeing Rodgers throwing behind his receiver, throwing at knee height or making the receiver jump with perfect timing. I remember a boat load of not very good passes from Rodgers this season.
I didn't respond to that part of the post because it had nothing to do with the original point, i.e. the claim that Rodgers played badly on purpose to try to get some changes, just the usual kvetching about 'muh reeSEEEEverrrrrrs!!!"
But yeah, the idea that it was just drops by the WRs to blame for lousy offense just doesn't hold up. Rodgers was individually playing poorly. Drops aggravated the issue but were not the whole of it.
Conversely, the fact Watson dropped multiple balls in his breakout Cowboys game didn't doom Rodgers to a bad game. For one thing, Watson made up for it with big plays on other receptions. For two, more importantly, those were good reads by Rodgers and he threw the ball accurately.
If Watson didn't catch anything that day, Rodgers's stats would have suffered, but it would not have meant Rodgers actually played poorly.
Whereas @WAS his stats suffered from "drops" because he actually did play poorly, like throwing at the WR's foot rather than hands or chest.
Last edited by Labrev on 08 Jan 2023 11:04, edited 1 time in total.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
NO mention of the dropped ball on Love though, high speed ball, 8 yrd pass, that hit both of the receivers hands when he leaped to catch it, but failed to hold on to it, ya wanna blame Rodgers for not perfectly thrown balls that still where catchable, and give Love a pass on his slightly off target throws.
I don't give a &%$@ what NBC tally's, I'am not blind, are you? do you actually believe those stats, it's like PFF not tallying a pressure on Bahk in a game I watched a rusher beat him and force Rodgers to side step the rusher, who knows what they consider a drop, when the football is catchable and isn't, then thats a drop, if the receivers is so inept that he can't get his hands on the ball it's not just a incompletion, it a pass that should have been caught.
do you think our coaches go off those idiotic stats to grade our receivers? I would hope to hell they don't.
to avoid speculation and be fair, Drops I expect are only recorded from perfectly thrown passes that hit the receivers hands in stride, and the receiver fails to catch the pass, imo that eliminates a lot of passes that should have been caught
Last edited by Yoop on 08 Jan 2023 13:46, edited 1 time in total.
[quote=Labrev post_id=117356 time=1673197173 user_id=86]
I didn't respond to that part of the post because it had nothing to do with the original point, i.e. the claim that Rodgers played badly on purpose to try to get some changes, just the usual kvetching about 'muh reeSEEEEverrrrrrs!!!"
But yeah, the idea that it was just drops by the WRs to blame for lousy offense just doesn't hold up. Rodgers was individually playing poorly. Drops aggravated the issue but were not the whole of it.
Conversely, the fact Watson dropped multiple balls in his breakout Cowboys game didn't doom Rodgers to a bad game. For one thing, Watson made up for it with big plays on other receptions. For two, more importantly, those were good reads by Rodgers and he threw the ball accurately.
If Watson didn't catch anything that day, Rodgers's stats would have suffered, but it would not have meant Rodgers actually played poorly.
quote screw up
thing is I never said Rodgers played great or even good in some of those games, just as I never said Rodgers threw games to get McCarthy fired, and the situation at the WR position since 2016 till 2022 consisted of 1 (one) very good receiver and a bunch of other jags.
we did have a lot of musical chair movement on the OL, we had trouble establishing a consistent running attack and protection for the QB along with receivers dropping passes
also when you see a errant pass, say at a receivers foot, or to far to one side or another, or even over a receivers head, have you ever considered that mid release the QB saw a defender homing in or something else he didn't like and that is partially responsible for the errant throw? I suppose not, that way it would be harder to complain about the QB
