Black Monday - Coaching Changes

[APB]

Idc about winning percentage at Lambeau or whatever the stat is. He’s (LaFleur) lost in the biggest moments when the team needs him the most.

Pretty much what it boils down to for me, as well. He consistently underperforms in the biggest moments.

I'm not calling for his head but I am saying he needs to be better. Good coaches rise in the biggest moments. Matt LaFleur shrinks from them.

[Yoop]

I’m sick to death of LaFleur looking like he’s on the verge of tears while we get bounced once again by a team we shouldn’t have. If anyone needs to go, it’s him IMO. He doesn’t have control over his teams. Idc about winning percentage at Lambeau or whatever the stat is. He’s lost in the biggest moments when the team needs him the most.

thing is we never seem to play the big games with the swagger we have during the course of the regular season, we seem more concerned with playing mistake free then just going out there and playing loose, consequently we end up making more mistakes then usual and beat ourselves.

If the coach is more concerned with not losing it robs his focus on winning and also sends the wrong message to the players, which is a lack of confidence, couple that with a conservative game plan, and it's a bad formula for success.

It's to easy to just blame these poor games on Rodgers decline, or just the lack of receiver talent, as you said we just don't carry what we do during the season into the biggest games, to many player mistakes, and thats a lack of coaching.

[Scott4Pack]

I’m not concerned about calling for MLF’s head today, just after a loss. Better to let the sting of a loss to Detroit at home dissipate. But I will say that he’s a good coach. I don’t think he is Super Bowl winning kind of good. But he is good. And the Packer management simply needs to decide if that is good enough for their aspirations.

Maybe MLF is on the same tier as Mike Tomlin at Pittsburgh. The Steeler leadership has been happy to keep him no matter how the Steelers are, because he fits that culture well. I don’t know yet if MLF is the right fit. He has done great things. But what would the Packers look like with him at the helm and no AR? That might be key.

[Labrev]

I feel the same way about MLF as I did Mac at the end of 2017: if you are going to replace the guy running the defense, you might as well replace the guy running the offense, because they were the bigger problem and what ultimately cost us.

Another knock I have on LaFleur is he doesn't seem to have a good grip or control over his players. I was reminded of that PIT @ CIN game in 2015; Reed and Quay and Rasul pulled a Burfict/Pacman and gifted the opposing team

I do think it's possible that MLF calls a better offense than people realize but that he has to bow to the whims of a HOF-QB on a lot of things. And he did turn things around from 4-8, which I didn't believe was possible.

I'm willing to give him a chance to see who he is with a QB that has to do what he says, but then I also wouldn't care if we just fired him.

[AmishMafia]

MLF has made some mistakes. But he is young and extremely successful. He is evolving and will get better as the years go on. There is no way we let him go.

Gute has likewise been very successful. His drafts have been very bold - still am impressed with the Jaire draft as the best "working if a draft board" by a GM. His FA moves have been well above average. His biggest black mark is resigning Rodgers. Going back in time we trade him to the broncos for 2 1s and 2 2nds. Which would likely be top 10 picks and we would be sitting very nicely.

Berry - yup gotta go. Off coverage on 4th and 2? I just don't get it. I understand he has a "don't get beat deep concept" - but change it up on 4th and 2!

Rodgers - he just plain old lost it. His excuses are getting old and he knows it. A couple of nice throws but a few really bad ones that got picked. Doesn't have the arm strength or accuracy beyond 20 yds. Time to hang them up.

Going forward I think what we need most of all on defense is some player leadership.

[Drj820]

MLF has made some mistakes. But he is young and extremely successful. He is evolving and will get better as the years go on. There is no way we let him go.

Gute has likewise been very successful. His drafts have been very bold - still am impressed with the Jaire draft as the best "working if a draft board" by a GM. His FA moves have been well above average. His biggest black mark is resigning Rodgers. Going back in time we trade him to the broncos for 2 1s and 2 2nds. Which would likely be top 10 picks and we would be sitting very nicely.

Berry - yup gotta go. Off coverage on 4th and 2? I just don't get it. I understand he has a "don't get beat deep concept" - but change it up on 4th and 2!

Rodgers - he just plain old lost it. His excuses are getting old and he knows it. A couple of nice throws but a few really bad ones that got picked. Doesn't have the arm strength or accuracy beyond 20 yds. Time to hang them up.

Going forward I think what we need most of all on defense is some player leadership.

Let’s see how successful these guys are without 12.

[Yoop]

I feel the same way about MLF as I did Mac at the end of 2017: if you are going to replace the guy running the defense, you might as well replace the guy running the offense, because they were the bigger problem and what ultimately cost us.

Another knock I have on LaFleur is he doesn't seem to have a good grip or control over his players. I was reminded of that PIT @ CIN game in 2015; Reed and Quay and Rasul pulled a Burfict/Pacman and gifted the opposing team

I do think it's possible that MLF calls a better offense than people realize but that he has to bow to the whims of a HOF-QB on a lot of things. And he did turn things around from 4-8, which I didn't believe was possible.

I'm willing to give him a chance to see who he is with a QB that has to do what he says, but then I also wouldn't care if we just fired him.

I agree with the 2017 part, McCarthy was just as much a problem then as Lafluer is with Barry now, we've seen the lack of discipline problems back then as we've seen under Lafluer now.

to me the winning streak was mostly the result of the 180 turn around by the defense, and I still think that had more to do with the players forcing changes and Barry finally caving to some of there demands.

Actually I think if not for Rodgers Lafluer would be exposed even more, but we'll probably find out next year unless he does get fired

[Half Empty]

MLF has made some mistakes. But he is young and extremely successful. He is evolving and will get better as the years go on. There is no way we let him go.

Gute has likewise been very successful. His drafts have been very bold - still am impressed with the Jaire draft as the best "working if a draft board" by a GM. His FA moves have been well above average. His biggest black mark is resigning Rodgers. Going back in time we trade him to the broncos for 2 1s and 2 2nds. Which would likely be top 10 picks and we would be sitting very nicely.

Berry - yup gotta go. Off coverage on 4th and 2? I just don't get it. I understand he has a "don't get beat deep concept" - but change it up on 4th and 2!

Rodgers - he just plain old lost it. His excuses are getting old and he knows it. A couple of nice throws but a few really bad ones that got picked. Doesn't have the arm strength or accuracy beyond 20 yds. Time to hang them up.

Going forward I think what we need most of all on defense is some player leadership.

Let’s see how successful these guys are without 12.

Yup, right now, that's the only interesting thing to look forward to next season.

[Captain_Ben]

I feel the same way about MLF as I did Mac at the end of 2017: if you are going to replace the guy running the defense, you might as well replace the guy running the offense, because they were the bigger problem and what ultimately cost us.

Another knock I have on LaFleur is he doesn't seem to have a good grip or control over his players. I was reminded of that PIT @ CIN game in 2015; Reed and Quay and Rasul pulled a Burfict/Pacman and gifted the opposing team

I do think it's possible that MLF calls a better offense than people realize but that he has to bow to the whims of a HOF-QB on a lot of things. And he did turn things around from 4-8, which I didn't believe was possible.

I'm willing to give him a chance to see who he is with a QB that has to do what he says, but then I also wouldn't care if we just fired him.

I think this franchise is suffering from the Lebron James effect, which is a terrible situation to be in. We have a player who is an all-time great who runs the team and the coach and GM are just along for the ride. Of course I could be wrong, but that is the impression that I've gotten.

[TheSkeptic]

MLF has made some mistakes. But he is young and extremely successful. He is evolving and will get better as the years go on. There is no way we let him go.

Gute has likewise been very successful. His drafts have been very bold - still am impressed with the Jaire draft as the best "working if a draft board" by a GM. His FA moves have been well above average. His biggest black mark is resigning Rodgers. Going back in time we trade him to the broncos for 2 1s and 2 2nds. Which would likely be top 10 picks and we would be sitting very nicely.

Berry - yup gotta go. Off coverage on 4th and 2? I just don't get it. I understand he has a "don't get beat deep concept" - but change it up on 4th and 2!

Rodgers - he just plain old lost it. His excuses are getting old and he knows it. A couple of nice throws but a few really bad ones that got picked. Doesn't have the arm strength or accuracy beyond 20 yds. Time to hang them up.

Going forward I think what we need most of all on defense is some player leadership.

[Captain_Ben]

I’m sick to death of LaFleur looking like he’s on the verge of tears while we get bounced once again by a team we shouldn’t have. If anyone needs to go, it’s him IMO. He doesn’t have control over his teams. Idc about winning percentage at Lambeau or whatever the stat is. He’s lost in the biggest moments when the team needs him the most.

thing is we never seem to play the big games with the swagger we have during the course of the regular season, we seem more concerned with playing mistake free then just going out there and playing loose, consequently we end up making more mistakes then usual and beat ourselves.

If the coach is more concerned with not losing it robs his focus on winning and also sends the wrong message to the players, which is a lack of confidence, couple that with a conservative game plan, and it's a bad formula for success.

It's to easy to just blame these poor games on Rodgers decline, or just the lack of receiver talent, as you said we just don't carry what we do during the season into the biggest games, to many player mistakes, and thats a lack of coaching.

If Rodgers could have somehow maintained his 2010 personality and demeanor throughout his career, and allowed some other player(s) to lead the locker room and set the tone for the team while he just showed up and focused on playing outstanding football, his teams would have been better suited to win. The biggest knock on his legacy will be that he never won it all with a team where he was the primary leader. Football is not a sport that meshes well with zen/yoga type personalities as leaders. I'm convinced that's why we've gotten our faces dragged through the mud by various teams in the postseason, so many times. He needs those Woodson, Driver, etc. personality types to harden the team up. The closest thing we have to that now is maybe Jaire I hope Rodgers comes back, but ideally it would be in a Peyton Manning in Denver circa 2015 type situation.

[Pugger]

I’m not concerned about calling for MLF’s head today, just after a loss. Better to let the sting of a loss to Detroit at home dissipate. But I will say that he’s a good coach. I don’t think he is Super Bowl winning kind of good. But he is good. And the Packer management simply needs to decide if that is good enough for their aspirations.

Maybe MLF is on the same tier as Mike Tomlin at Pittsburgh. The Steeler leadership has been happy to keep him no matter how the Steelers are, because he fits that culture well. I don’t know yet if MLF is the right fit. He has done great things. But what would the Packers look like with him at the helm and no AR? That might be key.

If Rodgers retires we will find out in 2023...

[Pugger]

I’m sick to death of LaFleur looking like he’s on the verge of tears while we get bounced once again by a team we shouldn’t have. If anyone needs to go, it’s him IMO. He doesn’t have control over his teams. Idc about winning percentage at Lambeau or whatever the stat is. He’s lost in the biggest moments when the team needs him the most.

thing is we never seem to play the big games with the swagger we have during the course of the regular season, we seem more concerned with playing mistake free then just going out there and playing loose, consequently we end up making more mistakes then usual and beat ourselves.

If the coach is more concerned with not losing it robs his focus on winning and also sends the wrong message to the players, which is a lack of confidence, couple that with a conservative game plan, and it's a bad formula for success.

It's to easy to just blame these poor games on Rodgers decline, or just the lack of receiver talent, as you said we just don't carry what we do during the season into the biggest games, to many player mistakes, and thats a lack of coaching.

If Rodgers could have somehow maintained his 2010 personality and demeanor throughout his career, and allowed some other player(s) to lead the locker room and set the tone for the team while he just showed up and focused on playing outstanding football, his teams would have been better suited to win. The biggest knock on his legacy will be that he never won it all with a team where he was the primary leader. Football is not a sport that meshes well with zen/yoga type personalities as leaders. I'm convinced that's why we've gotten our faces dragged through the mud by various teams in the postseason, so many times. He needs those Woodson, Driver, etc. personality types to harden the team up. The closest thing we have to that now is maybe Jaire I hope Rodgers comes back, but ideally it would be in a Peyton Manning in Denver circa 2015 type situation.

If this D with the talent is has played all season like it did in our little run before last night we wouldn't be looking forward to the offseason this morning.

[Yoop]

I’m sick to death of LaFleur looking like he’s on the verge of tears while we get bounced once again by a team we shouldn’t have. If anyone needs to go, it’s him IMO. He doesn’t have control over his teams. Idc about winning percentage at Lambeau or whatever the stat is. He’s lost in the biggest moments when the team needs him the most.

thing is we never seem to play the big games with the swagger we have during the course of the regular season, we seem more concerned with playing mistake free then just going out there and playing loose, consequently we end up making more mistakes then usual and beat ourselves.

If the coach is more concerned with not losing it robs his focus on winning and also sends the wrong message to the players, which is a lack of confidence, couple that with a conservative game plan, and it's a bad formula for success.

It's to easy to just blame these poor games on Rodgers decline, or just the lack of receiver talent, as you said we just don't carry what we do during the season into the biggest games, to many player mistakes, and thats a lack of coaching.

If Rodgers could have somehow maintained his 2010 personality and demeanor throughout his career, and allowed some other player(s) to lead the locker room and set the tone for the team while he just showed up and focused on playing outstanding football, his teams would have been better suited to win. The biggest knock on his legacy will be that he never won it all with a team where he was the primary leader. Football is not a sport that meshes well with zen/yoga type personalities as leaders. I'm convinced that's why we've gotten our faces dragged through the mud by various teams in the postseason, so many times. He needs those Woodson, Driver, etc. personality types to harden the team up. The closest thing we have to that now is maybe Jaire I hope Rodgers comes back, but ideally it would be in a Peyton Manning in Denver circa 2015 type situation.

ehhh, I don't follow Ben, for the simple reason are your comments, Rodgers was never the out spoken leader, in the 08 to 010 years he had Woodson, Williams firing up the defense and the upstart Greg Jennings on offense to go with Driver, basically Rodger and other relied on there personal play to lead the team, Peppers brought some of that later, but your right in the last few years that player leadership that others look up to has diminished, and it doesn't seem like Lafleur can be that guy either

again I go back to the lack of impact players on offense, eventually it became the running of Jones and Dillon or passing to Adams that moved the chains, and that about sums up the situation on offense, a couple more receivers a defense actually had to scheme to stop and the lack of a vocal leader wouldn't be as obvious as we see it now because imho that was the biggest reason Rodgers wasn't able to over come several of our PO losses, his plate was over flowing, and he lacked skill position players to lighten some of his burden, that to me was obvious last year when he was so polarized throwing the ball to Adams over 150 times.

Finally Gutty drafts some receivers with more ready to play skills, I consider not doing so sooner as a travesty towards one of the most skilled quarterbacks the league and certainly the Packers ever had, but thats just my opinion

[Labrev]

Actually I think if not for Adams, Rodgers and Lafluer would be exposed even more, as we found out this year

Fixed!

[BF004]

Kingsbury out too in AZ,

Along with Keim

[BF004]

Think the count is up to 5 now

Panthers - Rhule out
Denver - Hackett out
Colts - Reich out
Cardinals - Kingsbury out
Texans - Smith out

[Labrev]

Jim HARBA is a favorite to land the Broncos HC job:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ne ... c6d6af5a83

If so, we gotta go after Evero hard for D-Coord.

[Yoop]

Jim HARBA is a favorite to land the Broncos HC job:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ne ... c6d6af5a83

If so, we gotta go after Evero hard for D-Coord.

I agree, but why would Evero leave Denver, except to land a HC gig?

[Scott4Pack]

MLF has made some mistakes. But he is young and extremely successful. He is evolving and will get better as the years go on. There is no way we let him go.

Gute has likewise been very successful. His drafts have been very bold - still am impressed with the Jaire draft as the best "working if a draft board" by a GM. His FA moves have been well above average. His biggest black mark is resigning Rodgers. Going back in time we trade him to the broncos for 2 1s and 2 2nds. Which would likely be top 10 picks and we would be sitting very nicely.

Berry - yup gotta go. Off coverage on 4th and 2? I just don't get it. I understand he has a "don't get beat deep concept" - but change it up on 4th and 2!

Rodgers - he just plain old lost it. His excuses are getting old and he knows it. A couple of nice throws but a few really bad ones that got picked. Doesn't have the arm strength or accuracy beyond 20 yds. Time to hang them up.

Going forward I think what we need most of all on defense is some player leadership.

Yup. When a team that makes a living on short passes and has a guy like Amon-Ra, you line up expecting that short pass. For Heaven’s sake, you need to CHALLENGE what they excel at. And if they then beat you deep, then that’s a different story. This episode was like the Lions saying, “We love to do short throws. That’s who we are and what we do. And the stats back us up that we do it well enough too.” Then, our defense, knowing that is what they are likely to do, does nothing but CONCEDE the first down that clinches the game.

That is grounds for dismissal in my book. I just hope that Lombardi was not watching.