Rodgers Watch 2023

[Pckfn23]

The purported $24 million is only the $24 million left from signing bonus. That does not include the $58.3 million bonus that must get picked up this year. That will add $44 million in 2024. Then in 2024 there is another $47 million option that must get picked up.

[Crazylegs Starks]

What was it that Favre did that supposedly was unforgivable?
...

1) By retiring in March 2008 and then un-retiring in July 2008 he created a huge media circus and split the fan base into pro-Favre and pro-Rodgers factions.
2) He reportedly called the Lions to give them advice on how to beat the Packers (Favre denied this).
C) He went to the dirty, no good, rotten Vikings in 2009 (who previously tried to tamper with him in 2008).
4) He had the gall to beat the Packers twice in 2009.

See? Totally unforgivable.

[Yoop]

Juju, Toney, and MVS were the chiefs effort to replace tyreke hill.

Our effort was Sammy Watkins

*Watkins, Watson, Doubs, and Toure + faith in the development of in-house guys.

What I think is interesting here is, the argument has long been that one elite receiver -- even arguably the best in the league (Davante Adams) is not enough -- we need more than one *elite*.

KC shows otherwise. They had two guys who were star receiving options, Hill and Kelce. Now they just one elite pass-catcher (Kelce) and a handful of guys who are solid not special, yet their offense is just as productive as it was without Hill (by some metrics, it's even better) despite no star-for-star replacement. And they have matched last year's success, i.e. getting to the AFCCG.

ya what the hell if we would have had Mahomes we'd have had a bye and playing for the division Championship this weekend, right.

reality, KC has a better receiving group then we had last year, period. you can mentally masturbate this to your hearts content, anyone that compares our 3 Rookies, Cobb and Lazard to Shuster, MVS and Toney is wasting there breath, though not Adams type elite they are more experienced and dependable

and Tonyan 2 years ago hasn't been the same since, Kelce consistently is a night mare to defend

why any Packer fan would attempt to defend the BS thats went on for years here at WR, just so they can hate on Rodgers and defend the GM are the same type people that defended the lack of safety's and ILB's for years, there will always be blind followers of management.

[Yoop]

What I think is interesting here is, the argument has long been that one elite receiver -- even arguably the best in the league (Davante Adams) is not enough -- we need more than one *elite*.

that was never the argument, we simply needed more then Adams and the rest of the jags that we did have, we needed a field stretcher that would actually catch freaking passes, MVS had/has a 50% catch rate, and Lazard was at best a #3 or 4 receiver, the guy trips over his own two feet, we've had 1 good season from a TE in the last decade.

when you limit the talent a QB has to work with, not only does it make it harder for the QB, it also limits the schemes the coach can draw up. you just don't seem to understand that, a coach can't design plays if he doesn't have the talent to make those plays work, you should know this stuff, after all you played HS football.

[go pak go]

MVS on the Packers = JAG
MVS on the Chiefs = competent WR

[Scott4Pack]

MVS on the Packers = JAG
MVS on the Chiefs = competent WR

I think MVS has been a competent WR with the Pack. Did he meet expectations? Maybe not. Didn’t we all want him to open up the top of every defense we faced? But he was good. Put him in the WR2 ranks on most teams. Packers wanted him to be WR2++.

Don’t forget that MVS also was a good blocker, right behind Lazard.

[Yoop]

MVS on the Packers = JAG
MVS on the Chiefs = competent WR

I think MVS has been a competent WR with the Pack. Did he meet expectations? Maybe not. Didn’t we all want him to open up the top of every defense we faced? But he was good. Put him in the WR2 ranks on most teams. Packers wanted him to be WR2++.

Don’t forget that MVS also was a good blocker, right behind Lazard.

he was a #2 for us because we didn't have a #2 receiver, you could say MVS, Lazard, Allison, and the other jags in that room where all #2's, the point is after Adams we had to many inconsistent receivers, Rodgers didn't just decide to only throw to Adams.

and why is it when we are talking about receivers there blocking ability gets mentioned, no one drafts receivers for there blocking ability, that stuff becomes a priority once there on the team

basically ya need more then just one receiver that a defense has to game plan to stop, at times that was MVS, but not often enough, same with Lazard and the rest of the jags, I can't believe any one would defend the skills of Lazard, or even MVS.

take Rodgers out of the mix the last 4 years and this team doesn't make the PO's

[bud fox]

Do you think the Packers are or can be serious 2023 contenders?

If the answer isn't yes, then we must trade him. His $31 million hits in 2023 yes. But him playing on the Packers in 2023 also guarantees the Packers must take on an additional I believe $68 million in cap beyond 2023 for absolutely 0 service.

I don't think that's right.
His dead cap is like 24m next year. That is when it makes sense to move on.

Nope.

Spotrac's Cap Hit and Dead cap columns are wrong. The math they use doesn't work and I believe it has something to do with their assumption of the 2023 option.

The math is pretty clear. If Rodgers retires right now, we owe $40 million of dead cap from previous seasons. If we exercise the option, we pay him an additional $59 million in guaranteed money. So there is $100 million of cap funds that has to get recognized at some point if we exercise the option. And $40 million if we don't.

That is the math.

The more you look at it this really is a aaron rodgers is a packer for as long as he wants contact.

He is definitely back. Only way he leaves is if there is a rebuild and no one wants what except a small subset of fans.

[Drj820]

Well MVS did just miss a career high this season by 3 yards. But MVS is also probably the chiefs 3rd maybe even 4th pass catching option. He was the packers 2nd.

That said, there is a reason I chose juju and Kelce in my original point and not Kelce and mvs.

And finally, it’s the packers who thought he was a jag. They are one who let him walk…when this season sure showed we had a spot for him.

Oh if one is trying to replace tyreke hill…mvs is waaaay better of an option than Sammy Watkins. No doubt. Surely you understand that.

[bud fox]

MVS on the Packers = JAG
MVS on the Chiefs = competent WR

He still is a jag but he would have started as our 1.

He is 4th at chiefs.

[APB]

Whenever MVS was given the chance to excel in GB, he did. Was he perfect? Hell no. But he was plenty capable of stepping up in particular games when the defense (or injury) called for him to step up. What he needed was a QB who would have faith in him and throw him the damn ball.

[Pckfn23]

MVS was the Chiefs #1 WR by snap count and #2 by yards.

[lupedafiasco]

Whenever MVS was given the chance to excel in GB, he did. Was he perfect? Hell no. But he was plenty capable of stepping up in particular games when the defense (or injury) called for him to step up. What he needed was a QB who would have faith in him and throw him the damn ball.

Ehh. Disagree. He was good for how we got him and what he contributed versus his cost but as an overall receiver I think he did far from excelling. In 5 season playing with QBs that had 3 MVP seasons he has never done better than 42 receptions, 690 yards, or 6 TDs. Aaron Rodgers and Pat Mahomes and hes been &%$@. His career catch percentage averages at 50.3 and thats thats never skewed higher or lower than a few percentage points.

[texas]

MVS on the Packers = JAG
MVS on the Chiefs = competent WR

MVS was the same WR this season with KC that he was with us. A solid #3 or #4 on an ideal corps. Wouldn't have made our 2011 team.

He's not great but he's definitely adequate. I much prefer Christian Watson, but I'd probably rather take MVS over the rest of our WRs. But Christian Watson could be elite whereas MVS can't really be elite. I saw him making the same drops (or lack of admittedly difficult catches) when I'd check in this year, as he did with us. I think we should wish him well in KC but not get too disappointed about letting him walk.

[Labrev]

There's a reason nobody tripped over themselves to sign Juju, not even the team that was so smart for doing it. KC is giving him 3.7m per year, 2.5m guaranteed. They're actually paying MVS more.

KC simply doesn't have the mindset of seeing their WRs as 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. They seem them as a group of guys who all bring something different to the table but all with an important role to play on the offense, and rather than lament over how none of them can wholesale replace what they got from Hill, they replace Hill's production piecemeal between all of them.

We otoh stupidly throw a tantrum over Doubs not being able to make Davante plays as a rookie.

[bud fox]

MVS was the Chiefs #1 WR by snap count and #2 by yards.

Just talk receiving
Kelce
Juju
Mvs

Toney was mid year trade and seeing last 4 weeks he would be ahead of mvs.

[lupedafiasco]

There's a reason nobody tripped over themselves to sign Juju, not even the team that was so smart for doing it. KC is giving him 3.7m per year, 2.5m guaranteed. They're actually paying MVS more.

KC simply doesn't have the mindset of seeing their WRs as 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. They seem them as a group of guys who all bring something different to the table but all with an important role to play on the offense, and rather than lament over how none of them can wholesale replace what they got from Hill, they replace Hill's production piecemeal between all of them.

We otoh stupidly throw a tantrum over Doubs not being able to make Davante plays as a rookie.

You dont need a WR1 when you have a legitimate TE1. Kelce was 3rd in catches, 8th in yards, and 2nd in TDs and that out of any player. Theres only 1 reception that can happen on any play. On top of that they have probably the 2nd best offensive mind in the game right now. Some say the best.

[Drj820]

There's a reason nobody tripped over themselves to sign Juju, not even the team that was so smart for doing it. KC is giving him 3.7m per year, 2.5m guaranteed. They're actually paying MVS more.

KC simply doesn't have the mindset of seeing their WRs as 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. They seem them as a group of guys who all bring something different to the table but all with an important role to play on the offense, and rather than lament over how none of them can wholesale replace what they got from Hill, they replace Hill's production piecemeal between all of them.

We otoh stupidly throw a tantrum over Doubs not being able to make Davante plays as a rookie.

Nobody tripped over him but he still was just a few yards short of 1000. He would have been a heck of a better option for us than Sammy Watkins. Even you admit he was cheap. Not sure why we thought hammy Watkins would be adequate.

[Yoop]

Whenever MVS was given the chance to excel in GB, he did. Was he perfect? Hell no. But he was plenty capable of stepping up in particular games when the defense (or injury) called for him to step up. What he needed was a QB who would have faith in him and throw him the damn ball.

MVS problems where many, inconsistent, starting with just getting off the LOS, to rounding his routes, two key factors that affect timing, then catch rate, without looking I think his last season with us was his best, still barely over 50% catch rate, people remember his best game for us 4 catches for a 120 or so yrds but 1 or two good games in 4 years.

we chose to keep Lazard ( most consistent) and bring in a cheaper Watkins, hindsight says we made a mistake, but what we needed was a couple closer to Adams skill set, receivers that a DC has to devout doubles to cover in man or tighter over lapping zones, Doubs showed that ability a little till he was hurt, and the same with Watson, the rest, your sister could cover, DC's don't lose any sleep covering a Lazard, and a guy like MVS only requires single high, over the top, it's the quick deceptive receivers that cut there route breaks on a dime that causes a DC to adjust there coverages, we need more of those.

[Yoop]

There's a reason nobody tripped over themselves to sign Juju, not even the team that was so smart for doing it. KC is giving him 3.7m per year, 2.5m guaranteed. They're actually paying MVS more.

KC simply doesn't have the mindset of seeing their WRs as 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. They seem them as a group of guys who all bring something different to the table but all with an important role to play on the offense, and rather than lament over how none of them can wholesale replace what they got from Hill, they replace Hill's production piecemeal between all of them.

We otoh stupidly throw a tantrum over Doubs not being able to make Davante plays as a rookie.

Nobody tripped over him but he still was just a few yards short of 1000. He would have been a heck of a better option for us than Sammy Watkins. Even you admit he was cheap. Not sure why we thought hammy Watkins would be adequate.

Shuster would have been our #1, and with Rodgers, on this team last year, could and probably would have seen more targeted throws, more catches and more yrds, the defense of Lazard, Tonyan, or anyone not named Watson, seems over blown.

course I lack some Ju Ju info, just how many drops did he have last year