Black Monday - Coaching Changes

[texas]

I assume DeMeco Ryans will fail because it's Houston.

He got a 6 year contract. Can he find a QB is the question. Cindy was always Cincy, too, until they weren't. He has a good chance to build something in 3-5 years.

Unlikely. But maybe.

[Pugger]

Yikes.

Peyton good, over hyped IMO. With the already crazy depletion of talent in Denver in players and picks. Further depletion of picks just a super bleak outlook.


New Orleans on the other hand, after what could only be described as a laughably bad offseason and long term planning last year, big move for them.

I was thinking the same thing about Denver. Payton teamed up with Wilson is intriguing but they don't have a lot of ammo to fortify that roster right now so Sean has his work set up for him. The Saints might come out of this smelling like a rose.

[Scott4Pack]

I wouldn’t sleep on Denver in 2023. They do have some talent. What they lacked in 2022 was the staff to put it all together.

[BSA]

What they lacked in 2022 was...

...decent play from their overpaid QB. And that won't change going forward. Denver over-paid Wilson as a premium QB performer-
They essentially paid $ 25 dollars for a $ 20 dollar bill that played like a $10.

The absolute best they can hope for is that he plays up to the $20 - there's no chance he can outperform it. And that means they are hurting from the cap side and from the cheap labor side - having traded away the meat of their future picks.


"You win in the NFL not by paying players what they are worth, you win by paying them less."

Andrew Brandt

[Labrev]

I think Payton is an elite HC or pretty close to it.

But I also think Russell Wilson is kryptonite. Pete Carroll is a quality coach and he was better able to do his job with Geno Smith than Wilson. I really doubt Payton is going to have the same mind-meld with Wilson as he did Drew Brees.

It sure will be interesting to see what happens.

[Scott4Pack]

I think Payton is an elite HC or pretty close to it.

But I also think Russell Wilson is kryptonite. Pete Carroll is a quality coach and he was better able to do his job with Geno Smith than Wilson. I really doubt Payton is going to have the same mind-meld with Wilson as he did Drew Brees.

It sure will be interesting to see what happens.

Just curious how you can say that. I’m not knocking Geno. But he’s been starting there for one year. One. Wilson, on the other hand, was a proven winner for how many years. Can’t knock Wilson’s performance at all. At least not any more than we could knock Rodgers. Hahaha.

[Labrev]

Just curious how you can say that. I’m not knocking Geno. But he’s been starting there for one year. One. Wilson, on the other hand, was a proven winner for how many years.

Let me rephrase...

Pete Carroll is a quality coach and he was better able to do his job with Geno Smith last year than with Wilson the year before.

Of late, Wilson has been playing like 2021 Wilson than the Wilson of any of his playoff years, and not even Pete Carroll could make it work with that version of Russ, whereas he had a decent year with Smith at QB (if you don't have a high opinion of Geno Smith, that actually emphasizes the point even more).

Can’t knock Wilson’s performance at all. At least not any more than we could knock Rodgers. Hahaha.

Well I knock Rodgers all the time yet I also think he's appreciably better than Wilson, so that should tell you how "highly" I think of Wilson.

[Scott4Pack]

Wilson was an opportunistic QB. When he had the LOB and BeastMode, he often had short fields to work. Without them, he probably didn’t have that nearly as much.

If I needed to pick a QB who could make a long drive happen more than any, maybe I’d pick Rodgers over Wilson. Probably so, without hesitation. But Wilson had an uncanny ability to capitalize on turnovers and splash plays. He had the WRs to do it. And yet his OLine was poor some of those years too. He still carried his team.

[Labrev]

NO lets go of D-Coord Kris Richard.

[Pckfn23]

[Pckfn23]

[Labrev]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


Now MLF's decision to go with Barry over Evero is bad not only because Barry has been mediocre, but Minny will potentially capitalize on the decision by hiring the one who is actually good. FML...

[Drj820]

Not surprising. Lafleurs made one good hire his entire time as HC. That would be Bitchachio.

[YoHoChecko]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


Now MLF's decision to go with Barry over Evero is bad not only because Barry has been mediocre, but Minny will potentially capitalize on the decision by hiring the one who is actually good. FML...

I mean, Evero literally was being blocked from interviewing with anyone as of yesterday, so it's not like he should have been considered "available"

It's tough to wait to make a decision on a position that isn't "open." You have to fire someone to open up the chance that someone else might come available? Tricky.

Also, Barry had a top 10 unit in 2021. We got Jaire back from injury, added Reed and Walker and, eventually, Wyatt... replaced Chandon Sullivan with Nixon, and somehow the defense got worse. That was on him. But in the back half of the season, he made adjustments and things got much, much better. Should he have made those adjustments earlier? Should the D have been better from the jump? Yes. But the defense was not the reason the team was awful last year.

[Yoop]

saw a article that said the Packers defense was one of the most under performing squads in the league last year, I'd agree with that, and I think Gray is happy to move on, now if only someone would offer Montgomery a job, as a run game coordinator and DL coach it's amazing he still has a job in the nfl, we'll see, but imo Lafleur is putting his own job on the line hanging on to any of these defensive coaches.

Evero did far more with less talent

[YoHoChecko]

Evero did far more with less talent

I don't disagree. Evero did the most with the least last year; but it was also one year. It's not a promise of future success. I was immediately very interested in him as soon as Hackett got fired. But it took until right now for him to actually become available and I think the idea that we should have hired him is tough to really justify in a vacuum.

[Labrev]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


Now MLF's decision to go with Barry over Evero is bad not only because Barry has been mediocre, but Minny will potentially capitalize on the decision by hiring the one who is actually good. FML...

I mean, Evero literally was being blocked from interviewing with anyone as of yesterday, so it's not like he should have been considered "available"

It's tough to wait to make a decision on a position that isn't "open." You have to fire someone to open up the chance that someone else might come available? Tricky.

It's much simpler than that. If we had made the correct hire in the first place, MIN would not be in position to hire him at all, because he would instead be... on our staff.

Not to mention, we would not only have both a better D-Coord than we have now, but an actually good one.

Also, Barry had a top 10 unit in 2021.

I thought this too until I looked at the numbers. Nope, they were Mid that year.
https://fantasyfootballer.net/strategy/ ... -rankings/

Average against the pass, below-average against the run.... and this is probably the best you are ever getting out of Joe "0-16 team" Barry.

It was also a unit benefiting from the play of an MVP season Rodgers (and the *real* MVP, Davante Adams) on offense. Your defense does not do better when it's on the field longer.

We got Jaire back from injury, added Reed and Walker and, eventually, Wyatt... replaced Chandon Sullivan with Nixon, and somehow the defense got worse. That was on him. But in the back half of the season, he made adjustments and things got much, much better. Should he have made those adjustments earlier? Should the D have been better from the jump? Yes. But the defense was not the reason the team was awful last year.

They were better; I wouldn't include either "much" though.

To me, it's like the "Aaron Rodgers defense" for our early playoff exits: it's not about who is the reason for losing, it's about who we needed to play well for us to win (and that person simply not playing up to par, much less above it).

With how much we invested into the D, how much talent they plainly have, and with the offense coming into the year with its passing game set to take a significant step back, we needed this defense to be Elite and low-key carry the team, unlike most years where Rodgers and the O need to be lights-out and the D just has to be "good enough to win with."

I agree, our losses had more to do with the O being bad than the D, but the O had to be "good enough to win with" (which they weren't, and that was a problem in itself) and the D needed to be deciding the outcome of games. Basically, we needed to be SanFran. We were Arizona.

[Drj820]

There is always a “reason” the packers are a day late and dollar short from what they should have accomplished or obtained (coaches, free agents etc). Packers org will provide the reason to the friendly beat reporters who will sell the “reason” to the fans who will buy the explanation hook, line, n sinker.

Barry did surprisingly well last year. Barry had a pretty awful resume in the past. McVay passed on hiring Barry when he had the chance. There was a reason for this. Barry was not the best available.

[Yoop]

It's much simpler than that. If we had made the correct hire in the first place, MIN would not be in position to hire him at all, because he would instead be... on our staff.

we can't do anything about what hind sight reveals would have been better, what is important is making sure last season doesn't repeat itself.

Savage isn't a FS, as soon as Reed took that position, and we switched to more cover 6 and man, imo the coverage improved.

If your pass rush is inconsistent to non existent, which is a pretty good description of ours post Gary, then you can't allow 4o acres of open range in the secondary, opponents notice that stuff fix the pass rush, keep the secondary schemes as simple as possible would be my plan

[LombardiTime]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


Now MLF's decision to go with Barry over Evero is bad not only because Barry has been mediocre, but Minny will potentially capitalize on the decision by hiring the one who is actually good. FML...

I mean, Evero literally was being blocked from interviewing with anyone as of yesterday, so it's not like he should have been considered "available"

It's tough to wait to make a decision on a position that isn't "open." You have to fire someone to open up the chance that someone else might come available? Tricky.

Also, Barry had a top 10 unit in 2021. We got Jaire back from injury, added Reed and Walker and, eventually, Wyatt... replaced Chandon Sullivan with Nixon, and somehow the defense got worse. That was on him. But in the back half of the season, he made adjustments and things got much, much better. Should he have made those adjustments earlier? Should the D have been better from the jump? Yes. But the defense was not the reason the team was awful last year.

The defense had 7 first round picks and 4 free agents playing on not insignificant contracts in 2022.

By any objective measure, yards/ppg/DVOA, it was an average to below average unit.

Based upon expectations heading into the 2022 season, the defense was an abject failure.

Players and a coach openly questioned Barry’s coaching acumen.

The 8-9 record in 2022 was due in large part to the latest iteration in a long line of disappointing Packer defenses.

Finally, late season performances against the worst offense in the NFL Bears, Baker Mayfield led Rams, and in the second half against a concussed Tua are hardly cause for optimism that a Joe Barry led defense will be any better in 2023.