2023 NFL Draft Discussion

[Yoop]

I hear mixed things on Musgrave.

Some say that he's a good enough blocker with room to improve. Rick Speilman and his pod co-host from CBS say he can't block anyone. They also say he dropped more balls than about anyone down there this week. The NFL Network guys are ready to take Musgrave in the top 20. Speilman and Wilson sound like he's borderline top 50.

Honestly seems like the kind of elite athlete at a need position that the Packers would roll the dice on, so I'll be watching his process, but I'm more skeptical than "in love" at this point.

speeds the need, f the weed a common phrase of my youth


I admit there is no depth to my analysis, but I sure would love a move TE, I just think it's been a key missing piece of Matts offense since we saw what Tonyan could add to it, and he may get back to 2020 form, who knows, and a guy like Musgrave ( injury riddled season) might be around on day two.

I think better blocking and learning those assignments is common for college TE's, even those with college blocking ability still need to elevate that tech once they become a pro, so when someone says he's a good blocker I take that with a grain of salt with any TE.

It's still early and a lot more info will be coming.

[Backthepack4ever]

I'm also not as high on Anderson. He's smaller and doesn't have elite traits. Some say bama stunted him and schemed to generate his pressures. Good tackles will bury him. I'm knocking a stud here but I get preferring Murphy and Wilson. Both are big freaks that can move around and won with speed and power. I like the upside of them more. Wilson is raw but the more I watch the more I see a Gary type that in 3 years is monster

[YoHoChecko]

speeds the need, f the weed a common phrase of my youth


I admit there is no depth to my analysis, but I sure would love a move TE, I just think it's been a key missing piece of Matts offense since we saw what Tonyan could add to it, and he may get back to 2020 form, who knows, and a guy like Musgrave ( injury riddled season) might be around on day two.

I think better blocking and learning those assignments is common for college TE's, even those with college blocking ability still need to elevate that tech once they become a pro, so when someone says he's a good blocker I take that with a grain of salt with any TE.

It's still early and a lot more info will be coming.

I mean yeah: if he's 6'6" 250 and runs a 4.5, he's a useful receiving weapon. But if that's ALL he is, then his drops and questions about him in contested catch situations are trouble.

In his presser, he said his position coach taught him to love beating a guy blocking as much as he loves beating a guy receiving, so maybe with the size and want-to, that improves, as you said. Blocking is easier to teach than being an athletic freak, for sure, so long as the player has the will to get gritty. But if he has mediocre hands, to me, that changes a lot of things. More than with an elite speed receiver. TEs and possession receivers need to be chain-movers, reliable, etc.

I need to know more about Musgrave, but there isn't enough tape to evaluate. So to me he remains highly risky. HUGE upside. But might just be OJ Howard (who never really did much in the league but hang around as a TE2)

This draft class has slightly smaller Hayden Hurst (old, moderate athleticism, not a great blocker... Dalton Kinkaid); smaller-sample-size OJ Howard (who already had a small sample size athletic freak with a lot to prove... Musgrave); less tenacious TJ Hockenson (good all around player, consensus top TE, but no special traits... Michael Mayer); less-productive Marcedes Lewis (athletic freak for his size, *huge*, ready blocker right away... Darnell Washington)

You know whose career I'd take out of that mix.... (hint, he's on our team)

[Pckfn23]

I've wanted a Jason Witten before Jason Witten was Jason Witten!

[Yoop]

I'm also not as high on Anderson. He's smaller and doesn't have elite traits. Some say bama stunted him and schemed to generate his pressures. Good tackles will bury him. I'm knocking a stud here but I get preferring Murphy and Wilson. Both are big freaks that can move around and won with speed and power. I like the upside of them more. Wilson is raw but the more I watch the more I see a Gary type that in 3 years is monster

his stats declined from 2021 when he had 30 some tackles for loss and 17 sacks, I bet he had about 80 total pressures, Anderson, from just the little I've read is a top 5 guy, think Parsons, think KGB, imho lots of great edge rushers are schemed to be great, heck we do it with Gary, we set Clark right next to him to force 1 on 1 with Gary and the LT, yes Gary has the power to beat the tackle, but Anderson has the speed to do it, plus like Parsons, he has off ball skills, DC's drool over guys like Anderson

[Labrev]

You know me, I'm a traits guy. As far as tape goes, just read me the scouting report. I want only the broad takeaways of the tape about where that player is right now.

I think MLF needs to unleash whatever packages he had planned to run when they drafted Deguara, and throw Tyler Davis in the deep end (I never cared for Davis, but our coaches seem to think they have something there so let's see if he can hold his own out there). If Lewis is up for another season, I bring him back, he can help mentor whatever young talent we bring in.

I don't feel the need to draft a rookie TE to play right away, so some high-upside guys like Washington and Musgrave are more what I'd prefer, and sprinkle them in on a few plays to do whatever they are good at. I don't mind the other two, but I prefer them in Day 2.

[Backthepack4ever]

I'm also not as high on Anderson. He's smaller and doesn't have elite traits. Some say bama stunted him and schemed to generate his pressures. Good tackles will bury him. I'm knocking a stud here but I get preferring Murphy and Wilson. Both are big freaks that can move around and won with speed and power. I like the upside of them more. Wilson is raw but the more I watch the more I see a Gary type that in 3 years is monster

his stats declined from 2021 when he had 30 some tackles for loss and 17 sacks, I bet he had about 80 total pressures, Anderson, from just the little I've read is a top 5 guy, think Parsons, think KGB, imho lots of great edge rushers are schemed to be great, heck we do it with Gary, we set Clark right next to him to force 1 on 1 with Gary and the LT, yes Gary has the power to beat the tackle, but Anderson has the speed to do it, plus like Parsons, he has off ball skills, DC's drool over guys like Anderson

Gary is going against the RT Way more then the LT. We move Clark around so I kinda disagree with him to scheme Gary but I'm with you on having a great interior to free up others

Anderson will go top 5ish no doubt. He's a beast but I also get the case to liking others better long term. Anderson isnt elite speed and his off ball skills haven't been showcased. He does have good football instincts and until this year was praised for his high motor. It looks like he didn't play the same maybe to prevent injury I don't know.
I think Murphy is the better player. I think Wilson has the highest ceiling with his raw tools. The guy can move everywhere. He looks like a pterodactyl out there.


I would take any of these guys after Carter

[YoHoChecko]

I don't feel the need to draft a rookie TE to play right away, so some high-upside guys like Washington and Musgrave are more what I'd prefer, and sprinkle them in on a few plays to do whatever they are good at. I don't mind the other two, but I prefer them in Day 2.

Yeah TEs are nearly always non factors as rookies. The only exception are guys that are basically just playing receiver. But you’re usually making out at like 35 catches for 375 yards and some red zone TDs. You have to draft TEs a year early really. Keeping Tonyan and Lewis around one more year while a good luck and maybe a late PS player development seems most likely to me

[BF004]

The only thing I ever find when researching Will Anderson Jr. is Darnell Wright owning his jock.

For Packers, Gute seems to clearly like the big, long, tall, power types. Not sure Anderson could hold up at the point of attack in what this D asks him to do. Jamal 'Too Small' Reynolds reincarnate.



Okay probably a bit harsh, I actually do like him, but playing Devil's advocate. But at the same time, I don't see a top 5 prospect. I do simply like Wilson and Murphy better, and I think they are both better fits for our D.

[Backthepack4ever]

The only thing I ever find when researching Will Anderson Jr. is Darnell Wright owning his jock.

For Packers, Gute seems to clearly like the big, long, tall, power types. Not sure Anderson could hold up at the point of attack in what this D asks him to do. Jamal 'Too Small' Reynolds reincarnate.



Okay probably a bit harsh, I actually do like him, but playing Devil's advocate. But at the same time, I don't see a top 5 prospect. I do simply like Wilson and Murphy better, and I think they are both better fits for our D.

To this point wright is a monster and I like this OT class. They aren't the top heavy group of years past but day 2 is loaded with long time starting potential

[Yoop]

I'm also not as high on Anderson. He's smaller and doesn't have elite traits. Some say bama stunted him and schemed to generate his pressures. Good tackles will bury him. I'm knocking a stud here but I get preferring Murphy and Wilson. Both are big freaks that can move around and won with speed and power. I like the upside of them more. Wilson is raw but the more I watch the more I see a Gary type that in 3 years is monster

his stats declined from 2021 when he had 30 some tackles for loss and 17 sacks, I bet he had about 80 total pressures, Anderson, from just the little I've read is a top 5 guy, think Parsons, think KGB, imho lots of great edge rushers are schemed to be great, heck we do it with Gary, we set Clark right next to him to force 1 on 1 with Gary and the LT, yes Gary has the power to beat the tackle, but Anderson has the speed to do it, plus like Parsons, he has off ball skills, DC's drool over guys like Anderson

Gary is going against the RT Way more then the LT. We move Clark around so I kinda disagree with him to scheme Gary but I'm with you on having a great interior to free up others

Anderson will go top 5ish no doubt. He's a beast but I also get the case to liking others better long term. Anderson isnt elite speed and his off ball skills haven't been showcased. He does have good football instincts and until this year was praised for his high motor. It looks like he didn't play the same maybe to prevent injury I don't know.
I think Murphy is the better player. I think Wilson has the highest ceiling with his raw tools. The guy can move everywhere. He looks like a pterodactyl out there.


I would take any of these guys after Carter

yep, Carter seems like the real deal, or next great DT to enter the nfl, and all 3 of these edge rushers would be a good addition for us, I have my doubts any will drop to our pick though

I don't watch as much college ball any more, so I rely on you and others here for the eye ball test

most of the draft profile analysis sights want money these days to, getting harder to get free info.

[Yoop]

The only thing I ever find when researching Will Anderson Jr. is Darnell Wright owning his jock.

For Packers, Gute seems to clearly like the big, long, tall, power types. Not sure Anderson could hold up at the point of attack in what this D asks him to do. Jamal 'Too Small' Reynolds reincarnate.



Okay probably a bit harsh, I actually do like him, but playing Devil's advocate. But at the same time, I don't see a top 5 prospect. I do simply like Wilson and Murphy better, and I think they are both better fits for our D.

I don't know if I saw this Darnell Wright tackle, but i Just watched 3 you tube highlites and Anderson dominated in all 3, he shows deceptive power against the run and also as a pass rusher, his quickness almost always wins him the leverage battles.

heres just one you tuber

[Drj820]

Anderson-way overhyped but if around when we pick…then probably properly rated and should be selected.

He was getting top 5 hype when he decided to come back to bama..and to that I say…lol, no way.

[NCF]

The only thing I ever find when researching Will Anderson Jr. is Darnell Wright owning his jock.

For Packers, Gute seems to clearly like the big, long, tall, power types. Not sure Anderson could hold up at the point of attack in what this D asks him to do. Jamal 'Too Small' Reynolds reincarnate.



Okay probably a bit harsh, I actually do like him, but playing Devil's advocate. But at the same time, I don't see a top 5 prospect. I do simply like Wilson and Murphy better, and I think they are both better fits for our D.

I don't know if I saw this Darnell Wright tackle, but i Just watched 3 you tube highlites and Anderson dominated in all 3, he shows deceptive power against the run and also as a pass rusher, his quickness almost always wins him the leverage battles.

heres just one you tuber

We are all guilty of this, so not picking on you, at all. I am definitely guilty myself. Limited information. But, counterpoint.



A video can also make Jonathan Garvin look good.

[NCF]

For Packers, Gute seems to clearly like the big, long, tall, power types. Not sure Anderson could hold up at the point of attack in what this D asks him to do. Jamal 'Too Small' Reynolds reincarnate.

I want more of this for our defense. I always have. But, I want this as the 3rd or 4th EDGE so you can use them more situationally and I don't want to spend a premium pick to get this guy.

[BSA]

For Packers, Gute seems to clearly like the big, long, tall, power types. Not sure Anderson could hold up at the point of attack in what this D asks him to do. Jamal 'Too Small' Reynolds reincarnate.

I want more of this for our defense. I always have. But, I want this as the 3rd or 4th EDGE so you can use them more situationally and I don't want to spend a premium pick to get this guy.

Do you think the Packers believe Quay Walker can contribute in the role you're describing ?
I think GB moved him around a bit this year, but not certain he played any "OLB " alignments & responsibilities.

[NCF]

For Packers, Gute seems to clearly like the big, long, tall, power types. Not sure Anderson could hold up at the point of attack in what this D asks him to do. Jamal 'Too Small' Reynolds reincarnate.

I want more of this for our defense. I always have. But, I want this as the 3rd or 4th EDGE so you can use them more situationally and I don't want to spend a premium pick to get this guy.

Do you think the Packers believe Quay Walker can contribute in the role you're describing ?
I think GB moved him around a bit this year, but not certain he played any "OLB " alignments & responsibilities.

I think he did, a little bit. More towards the end of the season. I like mixing that in, but then you have a hole in the middle you need to patch, so I would rather start by fortifying the actual EDGE room.

[Yoop]

I want more of this for our defense. I always have. But, I want this as the 3rd or 4th EDGE so you can use them more situationally and I don't want to spend a premium pick to get this guy.

Do you think the Packers believe Quay Walker can contribute in the role you're describing ?
I think GB moved him around a bit this year, but not certain he played any "OLB " alignments & responsibilities.

I think he did, a little bit. More towards the end of the season. I like mixing that in, but then you have a hole in the middle you need to patch, so I would rather start by fortifying the actual EDGE room.

NCF, we have zero chance of landing any of the top 3 edge rushers, all 3 will go top 10, Anderson is basically Micah Parsons good, minus some top speed, but probably quicker takeoff, he weighs 243 lbs, one off season in a pro weight room and he pushes 250Lbs, which translates to Clay Mathews/Micah Parsons size, we bolsterd up the edge with Gary size possibly with the thought it would help us stop the run, hows that been working out? lol

Garvin tape is a classic example of manufactered sacks and pressure, only a couple successful rushed did he beat anyone, mostly he went around already blocked OL, which is also excellent stunting, but Anderson actually does it face up on the ol man and beats him with heavy hands and quick feet, there is a difference, and you can move Anderson (like Gary ) inside because great tech skills, which he has can and does translate to better leverage.

I know we have zero chance to draft this kid, but my interest is perked up now to follow his path to the draft, Parsons dropped to 12th, what a steal he was for Dallas, GM's wont make that bone headed mistake twice

[YoHoChecko]

NCF, we have zero chance of landing any of the top 3 edge rushers, all 3 will go top 10

Honestly, the EDGE class is DEEP but not necessarily strong at the top. I think that Tyree Wilson and Mike Murphy would be back half of round 1 picks in most drafts, but will go top 15 because there's no one else to fill the void between Will Anderson and the rest.

But I also think there will be guys going in round 3 that would normally be second round guys because the next block has SO many different, intriguing options.

So I'm not concerned about getting a top-3 EDGE. In fact I don't want it. The value is on Day 2 or late in round one (depending on when the run starts) with guys like the athletic freak Keion White, who had insane GPS-timed numbers at the senior bowl this week in terms of his speed and acceleration, but is 280 pounds. And then you have undersized, but plenty strong Nolan Smith. You have a pure pass rusher in BJ Ojalari. Zach Harrison who is likely to have Gary-like measurables will go in the second. A guy I haven't seen much out of but who is considered a strong EDGE player in Isaiah Foskey. Derrick Hall and Will McDonald coming off of strong senior bowl weeks will be on day two (Hall might sneak into round 1 but I think that'd be a mistake). Oh, I almost totally forgot Byron Young and Tuli Tuipulotu.

I mean the second-round graded EDGE players are almost too numerous to name. And I like Dylan Horton as a 2nd rounder, but I dunno if others see him quite that high. And a ton of them have elite athletic upside in there, as well. I guess my point is that we don't need a top EDGE defender (and I even left Lucas Van Ness off the list because I'm not sure if he'll go at like 12 or like 25) to get a very quality member of an edge rotation from the jump to develop.

And that doesn't even include my Day Three sleepers that I love like Caleb Murphy (who had 26 sacks at Ferris St this past season, and while he didn't show out in practices at the Shrine game, but destroyed his opposing OTs in the game routinely). And Danny Perales. And this guy BJ Thompson from Steven F. Austin University, who is Will Anderson light but considered possibly one of the better all-around athletes at the Shrine Game in recent years.

I mean this is a REALLY good year to be searching for some pass rushers to fill out a rotation that can develop into starters.

[APB]

Dane Brugler shares his Senior Bowl week thoughts: