New York Jets and Trade Compensation

[BF004]

Not sure how this stemmed, but wasn’t yoop referencing a PFF grade and not Andy Herman?

[YoHoChecko]

I dunno what all this arguing is accomplishing (had to scroll back 2 pages to figure out why Amos is coming up), but to the point: Amos' play absolutely fell off of a cliff this year. It was one of the most glaring differences on defense I observed this year.

He went from reliably being in the right place at the right time to getting beaten fairly regularly and missing tackles. It was night and day. Just not the same player. I don't know if he had something nagging him or if he had an illness or death in the family that was in his head or what--no clue. So maybe he can play again or maybe he can't. But last year he went from so consistent that he was almost great (even without the splashy plays) to average at best; he was wildly inconsistent last year. The consistency was the cliff.

Amos' contract is up and he should walk, even with the dead money from the void years. You can't give a guy whose play is visibly declining a 3rd/4th NFL contract (depending on how you view the restructure). Let someone else take that risk. So to me the Amos decision is not an interesting one. The obvious choice is to let him walk and if they do anything else, it should be for minimal money (I think Ken Ingalls said they could actually keep him for the same salary cost it would take to let him walk due to void years, but that would still kick the dead money can into a future we should be building for, not borrowing against)

[YoHoChecko]

only a fool would think the thumb didn't hinder his accuracy,

I agree that Rodgers' thumb was a big part of his poor play this year. The thing I am angriest about is that when your starting QB was playing terribly through a broken throwing hand thumb, costing games, we did not play his backup QB and let his thumb heal. I would feel that way even if his backup was not a 1st round pick we need to evaluate.

I was not for tanking the season before eliminated from the playoffs, but am VERY upset Love didn't get the call for 2-4 weeks after Rodgers proved he can't play well with a broken thumb week after week. He couldn't have done worse than 0-4, which is how we fared in those games with Rodgers.

[YoHoChecko]

I'm also not into the whole "can they compete in '23 or can't they" debate. To me, it's time to build in a forward-looking manner regardless. I think our notion of what Super Bowl rosters look like is woefully skewed by paying extra close attention to our own team's deficits while only primarily noticing other teams' strengths (just because we don't follow them as closely, day to day). I always felt like 2022 would be somewhat of a transition year on offense, whether it was Rodgers or Adams we moved on from (I still think we made the wrong choice there, but bygones).

Anyway, if you're trying to win a Super Bowl in 2023 or not, this roster needs to clear some big contracts and bring in reinforcements. The best way to do that is a youth movement; no matter your goals. If you look at what our rookie class did this year or what Seattle's did last year; if you look at what budget free agents like Campbell, Douglas, Nixon and Reed have given us the past two seasons... combine that with the areas of the team where we have young talent, there is a core to build around. Let's build it. This is in no way a bereft roster. But it does have clear needs; we just need to go out and fill them, which likely means moving on from some costly veterans

[bud fox]

I don't want any part of bad QB play.

I want GOAT QB play for as long as possible. It is tough watching other QB play - thankful to watch Rodgers week in and week out.

Rodgers thump hampered him but not as much as the receiving group, oline and play calling. Another QB behind this oline and with this receiving group would be dead and catchless.

[Yoop]

only a fool would think the thumb didn't hinder his accuracy,

I agree that Rodgers' thumb was a big part of his poor play this year. The thing I am angriest about is that when your starting QB was playing terribly through a broken throwing hand thumb, costing games, we did not play his backup QB and let his thumb heal. I would feel that way even if his backup was not a 1st round pick we need to evaluate.

I was not for tanking the season before eliminated from the playoffs, but am VERY upset Love didn't get the call for 2-4 weeks after Rodgers proved he can't play well with a broken thumb week after week. He couldn't have done worse than 0-4, which is how we fared in those games with Rodgers.

we never gave up hope of simply making the PO's, I think that was the biggest reason for not yanking Rodgers, the thumb issue was probably thought to be something that playing with it wouldn't make it worse, and with the way the OL and receiver situation was would not be ideal for a young guy like Love to be thrown into, however he did well enough against the Eagles that he should have started the next game, course I'am sure Rodgers had a voice in all this to

[Pckfn23]

I'm also not into the whole "can they compete in '23 or can't they" debate. To me, it's time to build in a forward-looking manner regardless. I think our notion of what Super Bowl rosters look like is woefully skewed by paying extra close attention to our own team's deficits while only primarily noticing other teams' strengths (just because we don't follow them as closely, day to day). I always felt like 2022 would be somewhat of a transition year on offense, whether it was Rodgers or Adams we moved on from (I still think we made the wrong choice there, but bygones).

Anyway, if you're trying to win a Super Bowl in 2023 or not, this roster needs to clear some big contracts and bring in reinforcements. The best way to do that is a youth movement; no matter your goals. If you look at what our rookie class did this year or what Seattle's did last year; if you look at what budget free agents like Campbell, Douglas, Nixon and Reed have given us the past two seasons... combine that with the areas of the team where we have young talent, there is a core to build around. Let's build it. This is in no way a bereft roster. But it does have clear needs; we just need to go out and fill them, which likely means moving on from some costly veterans

I think you are implying this, but are you saying it is definitely time to move on from QB1?

[Pugger]

only a fool would think the thumb didn't hinder his accuracy,

I agree that Rodgers' thumb was a big part of his poor play this year. The thing I am angriest about is that when your starting QB was playing terribly through a broken throwing hand thumb, costing games, we did not play his backup QB and let his thumb heal. I would feel that way even if his backup was not a 1st round pick we need to evaluate.

I was not for tanking the season before eliminated from the playoffs, but am VERY upset Love didn't get the call for 2-4 weeks after Rodgers proved he can't play well with a broken thumb week after week. He couldn't have done worse than 0-4, which is how we fared in those games with Rodgers.

This is interesting. Why did MLF stick with AR instead of going with Love after Rodgers hurt his thumb. Evidently at the time the coaching staff felt we had a better chance at winning with a limited Rodgers over a healthy Love. In retrospect that might have been a mistake but we aren't there every day at practice so we really can't say for sure.

[Yoop]

only a fool would think the thumb didn't hinder his accuracy,

I agree that Rodgers' thumb was a big part of his poor play this year. The thing I am angriest about is that when your starting QB was playing terribly through a broken throwing hand thumb, costing games, we did not play his backup QB and let his thumb heal. I would feel that way even if his backup was not a 1st round pick we need to evaluate.

I was not for tanking the season before eliminated from the playoffs, but am VERY upset Love didn't get the call for 2-4 weeks after Rodgers proved he can't play well with a broken thumb week after week. He couldn't have done worse than 0-4, which is how we fared in those games with Rodgers.

This is interesting. Why did MLF stick with AR instead of going with Love after Rodgers hurt his thumb. Evidently at the time the coaching staff felt we had a better chance at winning with a limited Rodgers over a healthy Love. In retrospect that might have been a mistake but we aren't there every day at practice so we really can't say for sure.

I remember a question asked of Lombardi when he was hired, we had just drafted Paul Hornung, the Heisman trophy winning QB from Notre Dam, Vince, will Paul be your starting QB, Vince replied something to the affect, No, we already have our starting QB in Bart Starr, Bart was known as a cool, collected, poised, never rattled game managing QB, he's still known as a great field General today.

somewhere in that is why we didn't throw Love to the wolfs, whether people here want to accept it or don't, cause I really don't give a hoot, our pass pro sucked off and on all season, pressure doesn't have to be registered in hits and sacks, constant hurry's are enough to disrupt any QB's thinking process, it led to more picks then normal for Rodgers, more tunnel vision, lack of progression reads, that stuff is why ya don't start rookie QB's and why ya avoid putting Love in and chance ruining his confidence, and that is far more important then Rodgers thumb or the odds that Love would have won more games, folks are really over valuing the ability of the offense last season, cripes our RB's where near tops in the league with YAC, the OL wasn't good and neither where the receivers.

so, I think it was probably wise not to abuse Love, with any more playing time then absolutely necessary under those conditions.

[Labrev]

This is interesting. Why did MLF stick with AR instead of going with Love after Rodgers hurt his thumb. Evidently at the time the coaching staff felt we had a better chance at winning with a limited Rodgers over a healthy Love. In retrospect that might have been a mistake but we aren't there every day at practice so we really can't say for sure.

Normally I defer to the coaches for having more behind-the-scenes information than me and way higher football IQ than I will ever have.

But this coaching staff has a well-documented deficiency in who they choose to play and (by extension) limit/sit:

Lane Taylor over Elgton Jenkins, Billy Turner at LT over Yosh Nijman in the SF playoff game (Nijman having played well against them earlier in the year), Royce Newman and Jake Hanson over Zach Tom, Amari Rodgers over Keisean Nixon, Dean Lowry over TJ Slaton...

I am going to chalk up playing thumbless Rodgers over Love as another error, not them knowing better. In truth I think there is adequate evidence of that from how Love played in relief in Philly.

[Drj820]

This is interesting. Why did MLF stick with AR instead of going with Love after Rodgers hurt his thumb. Evidently at the time the coaching staff felt we had a better chance at winning with a limited Rodgers over a healthy Love. In retrospect that might have been a mistake but we aren't there every day at practice so we really can't say for sure.

Normally I defer to the coaches for having more behind-the-scenes information than me and way higher football IQ than I will ever have.

But this coaching staff has a well-documented deficiency in who they choose to play and (by extension) limit/sit:

Lane Taylor over Elgton Jenkins, Billy Turner at LT over Yosh Nijman in the SF playoff game (Nijman having played well against them earlier in the year), Royce Newman and Jake Hanson over Zach Tom, Amari Rodgers over Keisean Nixon, Dean Lowry over TJ Slaton...

I am going to chalk up playing thumbless Rodgers over Love as another error, not them knowing better. In truth I think there is adequate evidence of that from how Love played in relief in Philly.

I think its quite simple...Rodgers insisted he was going to play through it...and so the coaches decided he was going to play through it.

[Yoop]

I dunno what all this arguing is accomplishing (had to scroll back 2 pages to figure out why Amos is coming up), but to the point: Amos' play absolutely fell off of a cliff this year. It was one of the most glaring differences on defense I observed this year.

He went from reliably being in the right place at the right time to getting beaten fairly regularly and missing tackles. It was night and day. Just not the same player. I don't know if he had something nagging him or if he had an illness or death in the family that was in his head or what--no clue. So maybe he can play again or maybe he can't. But last year he went from so consistent that he was almost great (even without the splashy plays) to average at best; he was wildly inconsistent last year. The consistency was the cliff.

Amos' contract is up and he should walk, even with the dead money from the void years. You can't give a guy whose play is visibly declining a 3rd/4th NFL contract (depending on how you view the restructure). Let someone else take that risk. So to me the Amos decision is not an interesting one. The obvious choice is to let him walk and if they do anything else, it should be for minimal money (I think Ken Ingalls said they could actually keep him for the same salary cost it would take to let him walk due to void years, but that would still kick the dead money can into a future we should be building for, not borrowing against)

this had nothing to do personally with Amos, or Harrison Smith of the Vikes, both these safety's are on the down side of great careers, and it shows in there play, I can't speak to Smith, or the schemes he played in, but in ours Amos was late against the run and also in coverage, and for what we paid him last year I just don't see another contract offer from us, not a long term one anyway and absolutely not for 9 mil annual, time to use another high pick on a ready to play safety is my thinking.

[AmishMafia]

this had nothing to do personally with Amos, or Harrison Smith of the Vikes, both these safety's are on the down side of great careers, and it shows in there play, I can't speak to Smith, or the schemes he played in, but in ours Amos was late against the run and also in coverage, and for what we paid him last year I just don't see another contract offer from us, not a long term one anyway and absolutely not for 9 mil annual, time to use another high pick on a ready to play safety is my thinking.

Amos is coming off of two seasons of excellent play. Therefore it cannot be his fault he is really good. It is the lack of talent with the LBs or the CBs that is too blame or maybe its the coaching. And shoulder was sore. And he should have been given input on who we drafted last year. And we draft Tariq Carpenter to replace him? What a slap in the face - so Gute is also to blame.

[go pak go]

this had nothing to do personally with Amos, or Harrison Smith of the Vikes, both these safety's are on the down side of great careers, and it shows in there play, I can't speak to Smith, or the schemes he played in, but in ours Amos was late against the run and also in coverage, and for what we paid him last year I just don't see another contract offer from us, not a long term one anyway and absolutely not for 9 mil annual, time to use another high pick on a ready to play safety is my thinking.

Amos is coming off of two seasons of excellent play. Therefore it cannot be his fault he is really good. It is the lack of talent with the LBs or the CBs that is too blame or maybe its the coaching. And shoulder was sore. And he should have been given input on who we drafted last year. And we draft Tariq Carpenter to replace him? What a slap in the face - so Gute is also to blame.

This is gold

[YoHoChecko]

Amos is coming off of two seasons of excellent play. Therefore it cannot be his fault he is really good. It is the lack of talent with the LBs or the CBs that is too blame or maybe its the coaching. And shoulder was sore. And he should have been given input on who we drafted last year. And we draft Tariq Carpenter to replace him? What a slap in the face - so Gute is also to blame.

This is baffling... I promise you we did not draft a 7th round special teamer to "replace Amos" and if that's a slap in the face, anything can be.

If the issue was Amos' shoulder and he was cognizant of not re-injuring, that could be a thing. But having 2 good years in a row does not mean that when you play poorly, it's everyone else's fault. Also, the talent around him didn't decline from 2021 to 2022, so that explanation makes no sense.

[YoHoChecko]

I think its quite simple...Rodgers insisted he was going to play through it...and so the coaches decided he was going to play through it.

Agreed 100%

Which is kind of my point. If we are to excuse Rodgers' poor play due to his thumb, we need to also hold him accountable for being determined to play through it.

I know we have a reverence for playing through pain in sports and society at large and I get it. But as a Trojans fan, watching John David Booty throw 4 picks to Stanford with a broken pinky leading to an upset loss that cost the team a championship shot that year while two 5 star recruits sat on the bench, I have long held that QBs with broken bones in their throwing hand need to be forced to the bench.

So blame MLF, blame Rodger, blame both, personally. But I can't just say "well he had a broken thumb so of course he played poorly" without also recognizing that playing through the broken thumb likely cost us at least 1-2 wins.

[Yoop]

this had nothing to do personally with Amos, or Harrison Smith of the Vikes, both these safety's are on the down side of great careers, and it shows in there play, I can't speak to Smith, or the schemes he played in, but in ours Amos was late against the run and also in coverage, and for what we paid him last year I just don't see another contract offer from us, not a long term one anyway and absolutely not for 9 mil annual, time to use another high pick on a ready to play safety is my thinking.

Amos is coming off of two seasons of excellent play. Therefore it cannot be his fault he is really good. It is the lack of talent with the LBs or the CBs that is too blame or maybe its the coaching. And shoulder was sore. And he should have been given input on who we drafted last year. And we draft Tariq Carpenter to replace him? What a slap in the face - so Gute is also to blame.

scheme could have been a issue, but he took poor angles tackling, same with coverage, we probably wont offer what he may get as a FA, as Yoho and I agree, his play did drastically decline, and I brought a link that shows it, a 74 grade is not that good, top tier safety"s are high 80's and 90's, we paid him 9 mil. last year, and he didn't earn it, Gute wont do that again.

[Pckfn23]

Amos is coming off of two seasons of excellent play. Therefore it cannot be his fault he is really good. It is the lack of talent with the LBs or the CBs that is too blame or maybe its the coaching. And shoulder was sore. And he should have been given input on who we drafted last year. And we draft Tariq Carpenter to replace him? What a slap in the face - so Gute is also to blame.

This is baffling... I promise you we did not draft a 7th round special teamer to "replace Amos" and if that's a slap in the face, anything can be.

If the issue was Amos' shoulder and he was cognizant of not re-injuring, that could be a thing. But having 2 good years in a row does not mean that when you play poorly, it's everyone else's fault. Also, the talent around him didn't decline from 2021 to 2022, so that explanation makes no sense.

Yoho... Reread it good sir! Replace the name.

[Drj820]

Amos is coming off of two seasons of excellent play. Therefore it cannot be his fault he is really good. It is the lack of talent with the LBs or the CBs that is too blame or maybe its the coaching. And shoulder was sore. And he should have been given input on who we drafted last year. And we draft Tariq Carpenter to replace him? What a slap in the face - so Gute is also to blame.

This is baffling... I promise you we did not draft a 7th round special teamer to "replace Amos" and if that's a slap in the face, anything can be.

If the issue was Amos' shoulder and he was cognizant of not re-injuring, that could be a thing. But having 2 good years in a row does not mean that when you play poorly, it's everyone else's fault. Also, the talent around him didn't decline from 2021 to 2022, so that explanation makes no sense.

Post was satire

[YoHoChecko]

Sorry guys, sorry. Hadn't started my coffee yet. We good.