2023 NFL Draft Discussion

[BF004]

This has been one of my favorite I've done. Premium positions and great value in the 1st, trading out of the 3rd and getting three 4th rounders. Wish I maybe could have added more at TE, but nothing ever really stood out, did add Ruckert in the Rodgers trade though and added Luepke as sort of the H-back hybrid which can help fill those snaps.

image.png (376.58 KiB) Viewed 677 times

Maybe a bit before Flowers should go, but can't really trade back twice from 13 and 15. He's pushing more towards my WR1 even over Johnston right now. Great get off the LOS, great catcher, great route runner, has the Jalen Waddle start and stop, instant 0 to full speed.



Just great value, positionally and need at 21 in Van Ness. Has that Gary, Z, Preston, length and strength, with just enough speed compliment that Packers seem to like.



Wright might be a plug and play RT, at the very least, you'd hope he can take over '24 after a cheap year from Nijman.



Sydney Brown probably my 2nd favorite safety after Antonio Johnson right now. Plays up a lot on the box and slot, more than deep,



Keaton Mitchell has some Aaron Jones in him, with elite speed. Good receiver, should get some jet sweep looks in that Tyler Ervin mold, special teamer, returner. Could be a nice long term compliment to AJ Dillon, seems like he really wants to stick around.


Moss is a good corner, lines up in the slot a lot, great speed and athleticism. Lot of talk of him transitioning to safety, but I'm not sure if he's physical enough or has the tackling.

Quindell Johnson plays more deep safety than Brown does, but has some dawg in him when tackling.

I want Hunter Luepke on this team. Linebacker playing full/back running back. Really good with the ball in hands and a really good receiver. Needs to focus on the strength and blocking part a bit more. Specializes in the FB wheel route. Something it seems like LaFleur would really want to try more often, but we just don't have the personnel for it.

[lupedafiasco]

I want Sydney Brown badly. I think he’s going to be a star. Too much ball production not to have a successful career.

[YoHoChecko]

I want Sydney Brown badly. I think he’s going to be a star. Too much ball production not to have a successful career.

100

I like when there's lupe-YoHo agreement. It isn't the most common, so when it comes, bet on it. Sydney Brown is easily-attainable and we should be targeting him.

[YoHoChecko]

Moss is a good corner, lines up in the slot a lot, great speed and athleticism. Lot of talk of him transitioning to safety, but I'm not sure if he's physical enough or has the tackling.

The talk was he proved himself capable of CB play down in Mobile, but I'm still a bit of a skeptic. I do wonder which other CBs were on the board there. It's a very deep class. Moss is a good pick at that spot, I'm not complaining, just wondering.

Overall, a great mock, but I'm not sure the draft stock on these sites is going to be worth playing around with until after the combine (and I say that having listened to the podcast of the guys who run that site ((which is kind of a bad podcast)) and heard heard them talk about re-ordering things.

[lupedafiasco]

I did a mock recently and ended up with Wright and Brown.

I’m not a fan of Zay that early. Terrific playmaker but when I watch him I’m concerned he’s just a Tavon Austin. I do think he a first round talent but a late one at that. I would have him behind Johnston and JSN significantly and just behind Hyatt. The combine could change that.

Van Ness is growing on me but his lack of experience is concerning. I’m interested in his combine.

[YoHoChecko]

I’m not a fan of Zay that early. Terrific playmaker but when I watch him I’m concerned he’s just a Tavon Austin. I do think he a first round talent but a late one at that. I would have him behind Johnston and JSN significantly and just behind Hyatt.

I agree that taking him that early is a reach. And I'll have some more clarity on stacking after the combine (JSN especially), but I don't understand why Hyatt is more highly thought of than, say, Tyquon Thornton who went at 50 to the Patriots. He seems like a one-trick deep speed pony with the potential for something more, but no sure thing.

It's just another sign of the weakness of this class, I suppose

Anyway, I see Flowers as a much more complete receiver (with better football character) than Tavon Austin ever was, but still a size concern the way other guys his size (Elijah Moore, Steve Smith) were. Some who turned out, some who didn't.

[lupedafiasco]

Hyatt had a much better season than Thornton is a harder conference IMO. I think that matters. I think Hyatt had a legitimate 1st round type of season with his ability to probably run in the 4.2s.

[YoHoChecko]

Hyatt had a much better season than Thornton is a harder conference IMO. I think that matters. I think Hyatt had a legitimate 1st round type of season with his ability to probably run in the 4.2s.

I view his stats this season as more usage and offensive system than "he is a better player." He's coming from a wide open spread out offense and was their deep guy. MVS lead the NFL in yards per catch a couple years ago, too. The deep threat guy gets a lot of big plays and yards.

And besides, Thornton was also a 4.2 guy. And taller. And a better route runner. And had more than one year of production. And was the same age coming out (21, turning 22 in Aug/Sep).

I'll check out his drills and maybe he'll surprise me. But he just seems 1-dimensional, lacking strength and nuance, no sense of toughness or versatility. A deep threat is useful, but if that's all he ends up being, he shouldn't be a first round guy.

[Pckfn23]

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/bi ... board-2023

Anyone able to get this easily into a spreadsheet? I tried to copy paste then filter and it didn't work...

[BF004]

I’m not a fan of Zay that early. Terrific playmaker but when I watch him I’m concerned he’s just a Tavon Austin. I do think he a first round talent but a late one at that. I would have him behind Johnston and JSN significantly and just behind Hyatt.

I agree that taking him that early is a reach. And I'll have some more clarity on stacking after the combine (JSN especially), but I don't understand why Hyatt is more highly thought of than, say, Tyquon Thornton who went at 50 to the Patriots. He seems like a one-trick deep speed pony with the potential for something more, but no sure thing.

Read something interesting on Hyatt, given Tennessee's weird stacked O, there was something like Hyatt only faced press coverage 18 times in his career and only had 1 catch. It's not to say he can't get off the LOS, but simply no one can know. And that is a HUGE aspect for WR's, at least for me, when I'm watching them. So if looking to be a top 20 kinda guy, throwing out a ton of projection and hope onto a player.

[BF004]

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/bi ... board-2023

Anyone able to get this easily into a spreadsheet? I tried to copy paste then filter and it didn't work...

I've used draftek for years to get a copy and pastable big board. And it has been consistent, since I'd say at least 2018, year over year, so can continue to build off previous work. And its nice too cause is super deep. Looks like 500 right now, sounds like they'll get out to 600.

https://www.drafttek.com/2023-NFL-Draft ... Page-1.asp

[YoHoChecko]

Read something interesting on Hyatt, given Tennessee's weird stacked O, there was something like Hyatt only faced press coverage 18 times in his career and only had 1 catch. It's not to say he can't get off the LOS, but simply no one can know. And that is a HUGE aspect for WR's, at least for me, when I'm watching them. So if looking to be a top 20 kinda guy, throwing out a ton of projection and hope onto a player.

That's wild. But it also means that scouting report I just saw that said his lack of play strength shows up against the press is probably more likely by someone winging it than by someone who went and watched those 18 snaps.

But yeah; is he a guy that you manufacture touches for (mid-rounds) or a guy who creates for himself (early rounds)? That's the determining factor here. Not saying, you can't manufacture some useful touches with that kind of speed. But I am saying that kind of speed is not really as rare as we act like it is, if we're going to manufacture the touches anyway. We have two guys on our team right now who were, according to them both and their coach, running in the high 4.2s in training leading up to the combine and eventually clocked 4.32 and 4.36. There are guys in this draft later on, like Andrei Ioshevas, who may challenge for fastest time at the combine this year.

I'm not gonna see a guy just run 4.27 and draft him in the top 30 because his college coach knew how to use him in the highest-scoring offense in college football.

[Pckfn23]

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/bi ... board-2023

Anyone able to get this easily into a spreadsheet? I tried to copy paste then filter and it didn't work...

I've used draftek for years to get a copy and pastable big board. And it has been consistent, since I'd say at least 2018, year over year, so can continue to build off previous work. And its nice too cause is super deep. Looks like 500 right now, sounds like they'll get out to 600.

https://www.drafttek.com/2023-NFL-Draft ... Page-1.asp

I only want mockdraftdatase to get more of a consensus grade. What I really want to do is grab it today and compare it in 2 months and see the movement over time. On their site you can see individual player movement, but would be cool to look at it as a whole.

[Yoop]

Read something interesting on Hyatt, given Tennessee's weird stacked O, there was something like Hyatt only faced press coverage 18 times in his career and only had 1 catch. It's not to say he can't get off the LOS, but simply no one can know. And that is a HUGE aspect for WR's, at least for me, when I'm watching them. So if looking to be a top 20 kinda guy, throwing out a ton of projection and hope onto a player.

That's wild. But it also means that scouting report I just saw that said his lack of play strength shows up against the press is probably more likely by someone winging it than by someone who went and watched those 18 snaps.

But yeah; is he a guy that you manufacture touches for (mid-rounds) or a guy who creates for himself (early rounds)? That's the determining factor here. Not saying, you can't manufacture some useful touches with that kind of speed. But I am saying that kind of speed is not really as rare as we act like it is, if we're going to manufacture the touches anyway. We have two guys on our team right now who were, according to them both and their coach, running in the high 4.2s in training leading up to the combine and eventually clocked 4.32 and 4.36. There are guys in this draft later on, like Andrei Ioshevas, who may challenge for fastest time at the combine this year.

I'm not gonna see a guy just run 4.27 and draft him in the top 30 because his college coach knew how to use him in the highest-scoring offense in college football.

thing is though, often players you have to manufacture touches for are the most explosive players in the game, we saw what Reid did to manufacture touches for Toney and Moore, and even Kelce , or us with WAtkins and Doubs, sorta just agreeing with you, all receivers can benefit from that.

I know your looking for receiver that can win 1x1, we all are, but imo the game has evolved to where motion and deception and over stacking seems to be at the fore front.

I havn't dug into the draft much, just reading what you guys have brought, personally I see a guy like zay or another quick and fast guy as the missing piece in Lafleurs schemes, we saw what the speed of Watson turned our motion into the little we used him at it last year, imo the more guys you have that can do that the harder it is for a defense to defend.

We got this basketball jones concept of WR fixed in our heads, great if there as agile as Watson, if not, they become MVS, or Lazard, or Brown or the dozen others that couldn't chew gum or jog at the same time, Cobb in his prime with a tad more speed is what I'am looking for.

[BF004]

Read something interesting on Hyatt, given Tennessee's weird stacked O, there was something like Hyatt only faced press coverage 18 times in his career and only had 1 catch. It's not to say he can't get off the LOS, but simply no one can know. And that is a HUGE aspect for WR's, at least for me, when I'm watching them. So if looking to be a top 20 kinda guy, throwing out a ton of projection and hope onto a player.

That's wild. But it also means that scouting report I just saw that said his lack of play strength shows up against the press is probably more likely by someone winging it than by someone who went and watched those 18 snaps.

But yeah; is he a guy that you manufacture touches for (mid-rounds) or a guy who creates for himself (early rounds)? That's the determining factor here. Not saying, you can't manufacture some useful touches with that kind of speed. But I am saying that kind of speed is not really as rare as we act like it is, if we're going to manufacture the touches anyway. We have two guys on our team right now who were, according to them both and their coach, running in the high 4.2s in training leading up to the combine and eventually clocked 4.32 and 4.36. There are guys in this draft later on, like Andrei Ioshevas, who may challenge for fastest time at the combine this year.

I'm not gonna see a guy just run 4.27 and draft him in the top 30 because his college coach knew how to use him in the highest-scoring offense in college football.

Trying to find that, unfortunately, googling 'Hyatt Press Coverage' does not yield the desired search results.

[BF004]

It's in here at about 18:50, and it was 18 press coverage last year, not career.

[Pckfn23]

Read something interesting on Hyatt, given Tennessee's weird stacked O, there was something like Hyatt only faced press coverage 18 times in his career and only had 1 catch. It's not to say he can't get off the LOS, but simply no one can know. And that is a HUGE aspect for WR's, at least for me, when I'm watching them. So if looking to be a top 20 kinda guy, throwing out a ton of projection and hope onto a player.

That's wild. But it also means that scouting report I just saw that said his lack of play strength shows up against the press is probably more likely by someone winging it than by someone who went and watched those 18 snaps.

But yeah; is he a guy that you manufacture touches for (mid-rounds) or a guy who creates for himself (early rounds)? That's the determining factor here. Not saying, you can't manufacture some useful touches with that kind of speed. But I am saying that kind of speed is not really as rare as we act like it is, if we're going to manufacture the touches anyway. We have two guys on our team right now who were, according to them both and their coach, running in the high 4.2s in training leading up to the combine and eventually clocked 4.32 and 4.36. There are guys in this draft later on, like Andrei Ioshevas, who may challenge for fastest time at the combine this year.

I'm not gonna see a guy just run 4.27 and draft him in the top 30 because his college coach knew how to use him in the highest-scoring offense in college football.

Trying to find that, unfortunately, googling 'Hyatt Press Coverage' does not yield the desired search results.

Here is something.
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl ... r-rankings

PFF says 31 snaps in 2022. It's all I could find in a cursory look that talked about snaps against press.

[BF004]

Nice thread to read through heading towards the combine.

[Labrev]

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of drafting a TE high.

In a vacuum, it makes sense. It addresses a team need for sure. And the value of a top TE ala Kittle, Andrews, etc. is not in question.

Yet when I compare the production you can expect to get from a Years 1-4 TE versus the same from OL, WR, EDGE, S... just seems like you get *significantly* less out of the pick than other positions where we can use the help. And to the extent that MLF uses heavy sets often, the first order of business is to block, while receiving though very welcome is more of a bonus than the priority, and you don't need to draft guys like that very high at all.

I just can't help but feel like while Darnell Washington is a great addition to this club, Round 1 is for true playmakers like Jalin Hyatt.

[Scott4Pack]

I’ve been pondering today about which positions of need are greatest for the Packers. I come up with Safety, Edge, DLine, and WR/TE in that order. Unless we pick up a FA to fit those needs or do a trade, we need to draft there. The need is too great in each. And we still fit OLine into that equation too. Hey, and if we trade Rodgers, we’d likely trade a developmental QB too! At least we’d probably have an additional draft pick for that situation.

Kinda concerning to me that it seems we have a big need on all three levels of the D. As much as I would love to draft a WR in first two rounds again, maybe it isn’t the best choice, unless one jumps off the board or if we do trade Rodgers and pick up a rd1 or rd2 pick.