From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
One thing I haven't heard this year is what scouts, etc think of Live vs the current qb class
Because it's difficult to discuss. Most scouts and evaluators would only be able to compare him as he was as a prospect three years ago, rather than as he is after 3 years in the system.
Both [mention]lupedafiasco[/mention] and I have indicated that his resume and upside (and downside) is fairly similar to Will Levis. Big arm talent displayed in his penultimate college season only to see a huge dropoff in his final college season when the offense and supporting cast around him underwent changes. Both guys had questionable decision-making and too many turnover-worthy plays. Both guys are/were traits with a lot of projection and necessary development. PFF had Levis' great season graded a bit higher than Love's, but the 3-year arc was quite similar.
As prospects coming out of college to develop, I'd go something like this:
1. Stroud
2a. Richardson (ceiling play)
2b. Young (floor play)
4a. Levis
4b. Love
As players ready to play right now, I'd go
1. Stroud
2. Love
3. Young
4. Levis
5. Richardson
But that's definitely not where the consensus would be, I wouldn't say. I'm higher on Stroud than most. He's just such a natural thrower of an accurate football. His footwork is already better than Love's was in year two. He just needs to learn a system well enough to get comfortable going off schedule more often (we've seen him do it, but not enough), and he's right there.
One thing I haven't heard this year is what scouts, etc think of Live vs the current qb class
Because it's difficult to discuss. Most scouts and evaluators would only be able to compare him as he was as a prospect three years ago, rather than as he is after 3 years in the system.
Both @lupedafiasco and I have indicated that his resume and upside (and downside) is fairly similar to Will Levis. Big arm talent displayed in his penultimate college season only to see a huge dropoff in his final college season when the offense and supporting cast around him underwent changes. Both guys had questionable decision-making and too many turnover-worthy plays. Both guys are/were traits with a lot of projection and necessary development. PFF had Levis' great season graded a bit higher than Love's, but the 3-year arc was quite similar.
As prospects coming out of college to develop, I'd go something like this:
1. Stroud
2a. Richardson (ceiling play)
2b. Young (floor play)
4a. Levis
4b. Love
As players ready to play right now, I'd go
1. Stroud
2. Love
3. Young
4. Levis
5. Richardson
But that's definitely not where the consensus would be, I wouldn't say. I'm higher on Stroud than most. He's just such a natural thrower of an accurate football. His footwork is already better than Love's was in year two. He just needs to learn a system well enough to get comfortable going off schedule more often (we've seen him do it, but not enough), and he's right there.
Yeah but Ohio State QB = overrated, every single time.
As players ready to play right now, I'd go
1. Stroud
2. Love
3. Young
4. Levis
5. Richardson
Mine would be:
1) Love
.
.
.
Everybody else in whatever order you like.
3 years in an NFL program
Strength, conditioning, footwork, learn NFL offense, read NFL defense + watch film + play preseasons + scout team + reg season games + gameplanning and learning & watching back-to-back MVP seasons. Those give Love a massive head start regardless of the talent or athleticism these rookies possess. The game has slowed down for Love, can't say that about any of the top draftees.
.
Yeah but Ohio State QB = overrated, every single time.
Yeah, but the school they went to = dumb way to evaluate individuals, every single time
No, I disagree. That's why humans have brains that can recognize patterns. Sometimes the patterns are meaningless but in this case, the big name schools attract a lot more talent around the QB, which makes it easier for the QB and can cover for his flaws. System QBs are a real thing (as are system WRs like Baylor in the Briles era). And all that the recent Ohio State QBs have been able to do is be mobile for a year or two and then bust. Or switch positions.
It's true that Aaron Rodgers bucked the trend, which is why we were even able to get him in the first place. But the trend still existed and probably was not meaningless. You would know better than I would, but I remember them saying early on that he had to completely change his throwing motion when he got here.
Here are my rankings, having not watched any of them outside of the occasional nationally-televised game and Jordan Love every snap he has taken with us. I think I also saw Richardson in action once this year when they played Tennessee. I thought he looked quite athletic. Never seen Levis play at all. I also am totally a homer.
1. Love
2. Young
3. Levis
4a. Stroud
4b. Richardson
It has been asked (with the accusation of being "all over his nuts"), how can we declare that Love is a HOF-bound QB?
Speaking only for myself....
1.) I am a fan that wants the best possible outcomes for my team, and the best possible outcome is for Love to have a HOF career for us. That outcome is actually plausible given his ceiling as an athlete at his position; he has the tools to be an elite QB.
If he can just string together several years of elite QB play, you have the makings of a HOFer, but what really makes it the best possible outcome for the team is that SB appearances/wins are what make the most compelling case for a bust in Canton.
2.) I believe in Manifestation; words shape reality. And I want to help manifest #1 (see above). So I am going to send the most positive vibes in his direction.
And there are way too many chicken'&%$@ takes around Love, from hysterics of the Rodgers cult like "We have no idea what he is!!!! We can't play him until he has sat and learned for 27 years minimum!!!!" to tepid support from proponents of his, like "mmm, well he probably won't be another HOF'er! That doesn't mean he won't be a good Q-beeEEEee!"
To HELL with that pansy ass &%$@! This ain't the thread for it. The sky is the limit with this kid, get excited for it!!
Also, people said the exact same things in 2008. "I mean, Rodgers is probably not gonna be as incredible as Farrr-vv! But...." No, he was every bit as incredible.
3.) I am also a believer that every team has their "things" (and if they don't have it, they don't lack it for long).
Niners and Bears almost always have the tough Front Seven. Eagles invest in their trenches. Steelers always have strong pass-rushers. Pete Carroll's Seahawks teams always have good DBs, as do the Pats.
Our thing is QBs. What other team would be more likely to have back-to-back-to-back QBs?
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
He throws dimes. I always remember watching Aaron in person just looked different than watching the other QB when I would be at camp.
Jordan Love has that "different" look when he releases balls.
He has amazing arm talent, but I will say, even in that eagles game, his ball placement is fairly consistently just a teensy bit off—usually slightly behind. That can/should improve with timing and turn and first team reps together, but it was notable to me.
And I agree he throws the ball different. It literally takes adjusting to for me. It’s difficult not to see the ball jumping out of his hand as wrong in some way because it’s so different than so many guys I’m used to watching, but the ball spins tight and gets where it’s going, so yeah, I’ll adjust my eyes
Watching Love throw to wide open guys not moving is pretty useless to me. It’s all going to come down to what he does in a game with a rush in front of him. I just can’t get past how atrocious he looked against the Chiefs in a real game.
Every competent DC we face is going to blitz the &%$@ out of him until he proves he won’t !@#$ his pants in the face of a rush.
