2023 NFL Draft Discussion

[paco]

What are people tuning into for draft coverage this year? ESPN, NFL, other streaming options, podcasts, etc?

[go pak go]

What are people tuning into for draft coverage this year? ESPN, NFL, other streaming options, podcasts, etc?

I like NFL Network the most. ESPN is next.

I thought ABC and ESPN were the same but was sorely disappointed in 2019 when we watched on ABC. Later found out that ABC is a different broadcast designed more for the casual American rather than football fan. So anything besides ABC.

[YoHoChecko]

Not going to quote the whole thing, but the scouts’ comments on JSN are just weird to me. I mean, it’s true that he doesn’t have special “traits.” But it’s hard for me to swallow that professional NFL scouts are so unaware of the lack of “special traits” among some of the league’s best WRs.

I posted a spreadsheet somewhere of it, but most of the top guys are closer to average measurable traits than special ones, with some exceptions.

Don’t get me wrong, in a tie, you choose traits every time. I personally love traits. But you can get carried away. Minimum thresholds are acceptable for a reason. If you’re a great football player and hit the minimums, go forth and prosper.

These guys seem to think that not being able to run away from everyone means you can only play on the slot, especially at over 190 pounds and 6’0 tall, is just a shockingly surface level evaluation from these guys.

[BSA]

just a shockingly surface level evaluation from these guys.

McGinn selects a variety of comments, some pro and some con. Sometimes diametrically opposed. We're not getting any scouts' full report, just selected bytes. And I can imagine some scouts keep their secrets to themselves, while others purposely feed him negatives so they can try to snag a guy they like. later on. So the sources are being selective in what they share.

McGinn scout comments are eagerly anticipated and generate a ton of interest leading up to the draft - and its a fair guess Bob selectively selects the more incendiary comments to generate more interest/engagement/ad dollars. So now we have both the source and the publisher giving partial, highly- curated answers.

So a scout may say "JSN is a great prospect, will definitely succeed in the NFL, but...." and then they lay out their concerns.
McGinn only publishes the concerns from that scout so we're not getting a fully nuanced picture.

We need to remember that the Draft-Industrial Complex ( DIC) exists to generate ratings, interest and ad dollars.
There's lots of high quality stuff for sure, but there's a monetization component too - and I think that colors what is shown to fans.

[Pckfn23]

I am, unsurprisingly, a nah on Kancey

He’s just too much of a size outlier. It’s not just his weight, but his arms/length. He’s not just small. He’s REALLY small.

He might be great. But he’ll probably be a rotational passing down specialist playing 25-30% of his team’s snaps

I read just a little bit ago that Kancey didn't have a single Top 30 visit. Either everyone knows what they need to know, or no-one wants to show their hand on interest for him.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/ca ... osition=DL

Ya, some pretty big exceptions to make a day 2 pick.

[Yoop]

just a shockingly surface level evaluation from these guys.

McGinn selects a variety of comments, some pro and some con. Sometimes diametrically opposed. We're not getting any scouts' full report, just selected bytes. And I can imagine some scouts keep their secrets to themselves, while others purposely feed him negatives so they can try to snag a guy they like. later on. So the sources are being selective in what they share.

McGinn scout comments are eagerly anticipated and generate a ton of interest leading up to the draft - and its a fair guess Bob selectively selects the more incendiary comments to generate more interest/engagement/ad dollars. So now we have both the source and the publisher giving partial, highly- curated answers.

So a scout may say "JSN is a great prospect, will definitely succeed in the NFL, but...." and then they lay out their concerns.
McGinn only publishes the concerns from that scout so we're not getting a fully nuanced picture.

We need to remember that the Draft-Industrial Complex ( DIC) exists to generate ratings, interest and ad dollars.
There's lots of high quality stuff for sure, but there's a monetization component too - and I think that colors what is shown to fans.

agree, and everyone of em has a personal opinion, typically they give both the positives and the negatives

and some of us have a personal preference for drafting positions as well as player size and skills for those positions.
for instance I took notice with Yoho's opinion of Dalton Kincaid, I think some of his dislike centers on him not liking to draft a TE in the first round, and specially so if that players has a low grade as a blocker, I checked on that, and while Dalton isn't noted as blocker per se, his blocking grades are higher then Laporta, and when it comes to receiving the guy is like a basket, nothing gets past his outstretched hands., no offense meant yoho, I was surprised you where so hard on the kid.

thanks for all the player info BSA

[BSA]

One more note on all the McGinn scout quotes - up until 2015, the scouts/personnel guys put their names on these notes.
Now they are all anonymous.

[BSA]

thanks for all the player info BSA

any time

Here's the full notes Dalton Kincaid

STRENGTHS: Long, loose athlete with an adequate frame ... uses lateral agility and flexible shoulders to quickly release off the line and accelerates into his routes ...outstanding focus to isolate the football and catch the ball cleanly ... comfortable adjusting mid-air and expanding his catch radius, showing unwavering trust in his ball skills ... catches well in stride and stays balanced through contact (eight catches of 25-plus yards in 2022) ... quickly collects himself to force overpursuit or make the first man miss (one of only three FBS tight ends with 16-plus forced missed tackles in 2022) ... his dynamic speed cuts out of breaks creates interference/holding calls for the defense ... willing and functional run blocker ... shows the play speed to fit, hook and seal on cross-formation blocks ... received positive character feedback from his coaches and was a member of Utah’s leadership council ... had a career performance versus USC in 2022 with 16 receptions (on 16 targets) and 234 yards – his 16 catches was the most by an FBS player in 2022 ... only Georgia’s Brock Bowers had more catches and receiving yards in 2022 among FBS tight ends.

WEAKNESSES: Slender frame for the position and doesn’t have desired bulk ... must continue developing his core strength ... doesn’t have a strong blocking base and finds himself upright and off-balance ... reaches his landmarks, but his body angles are inconsistent when working up a level or pulling on perimeter runs ..messy pass-pro mechanics, often overextending, dropping his eyes and losing control ... penalized four times as a senior (three false starts, one holding) ... will round off his routes and lean into breaks, telegraphing his intentions ... missed time as a senior because of multiple injuries, including a shoulder (October 2022) and thoracic injury (November 2022), which also sidelined him for the Senior Bowl and combine.

SUMMARY: A two-year starter at Utah, Kincaid was an F tight end in offensive coordinator Andy Ludwig’s offense. An FCS transfer, he became the main target in the Utes’ offense as a senior after Brant Kuithe was injured and led all FBS tight ends in receiving yards (74.2) and receptions (5.8) per game, just ahead of Notre Dame’s Michael Mayer in both categories (67.4 and 5.6, respectively). With his basketball background, Kincaid has fluid movement skills and flashes the short-area quickness to open stride and accelerate in and out of his breaks. He is a natural ball winner and shows confidence in his hands, doing most of his damage when catching the ball on the move (remarkable 35-to-4 touchdown-to-drop ratio in college). Overall, Kincaid is still developing his play strength and consistency as a blocker, but he is an above-average pass catcher with the burst, body control and ball skills to be a weapon in the slot.

He projects as a playmaking “move” tight end in the NFL.

GRADE: 1st Round No. 20

[BF004]

The Packers drafted Devonte Wyatt to be the starting 3 -tech and Kenny Clark plays there too - so not sure why they'd draft this guy. He's also too short to play 5-Tech which is where GB has DL needs. So it seems like Kancey is a good prospect ( late 1st) , but a poor fit for the 2023 Packers 1st round selection.

Last I looked we lost both Lowry and Reed. So having, Wyatt, Clark, Slaton and Kancey makes a lot of sense to me. I'd much rather grab the 5-tech in later rounds and get more pressure from the inside along with help stopping the run.

You can always fit an Aaron Donald into your scheme, regardless of scheme. Kancey is not Aaron Donald. Those arms are scary short.

image.png (72.3 KiB) Viewed 764 times

[YoHoChecko]

I know McGinn is selective and drives his preferred narratives. And I know that scouts have a variety of opinions.

I’m just still about that professionals would say some of those things and draw some of those conclusions.

But I do love the McGinn quotes as further info and intel. Same with the Bruce Feldman coaches’ quotes

[Scott4Pack]

Great stuff here about the “Packer type” of tackles in this draft.

[YoHoChecko]

Great stuff here about the “Packer type” of tackles in this draft.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1272

[Scott4Pack]

Simple question: Which TE would be best for the Packers.

I would love Mayer. But Kincaid has much more possible upside. Then you have Washington being the physical freak that he is and likely RZ threat.

Tough call. Maybe there isn’t a bad choice. It’s tempting to get the most ready (Mayer). But then, to pass on greater upside would be tough.

[Labrev]

Simple question: Which TE would be best for the Packers.

I would love Mayer. But Kincaid has much more possible upside. Then you have Washington being the physical freak that he is and likely RZ threat.

Tough call. Maybe there isn’t a bad choice. It’s tempting to get the most ready (Mayer). But then, to pass on greater upside would be tough.

We need bodies and talent above all else. We have two young guys on the roster at the position, and that's it.

MLF's system does value the ability to block *and* catch passes, and our nominal starter (Deguara) is more of an Hback type, so maybe you put more value on guys like Mayer and Washington who are prototypical body types and have two-way ability.

That said, honestly, just take advantage of the deepest TE class in recent memory and fill the room.

[bud fox]

Simple question: Which TE would be best for the Packers.

I would love Mayer. But Kincaid has much more possible upside. Then you have Washington being the physical freak that he is and likely RZ threat.

Tough call. Maybe there isn’t a bad choice. It’s tempting to get the most ready (Mayer). But then, to pass on greater upside would be tough.

Mayer is the best with the most upside.

It's just hard to use a first on a te.

[TheSkeptic]

Simple question: Which TE would be best for the Packers.

I would love Mayer. But Kincaid has much more possible upside. Then you have Washington being the physical freak that he is and likely RZ threat.

Tough call. Maybe there isn’t a bad choice. It’s tempting to get the most ready (Mayer). But then, to pass on greater upside would be tough.

Mayer is the best with the most upside.

It's just hard to use a first on a te.

Why? TE is a full time starter, slot is not. And yet people are saying the Packers should trade up to get a slot receiver with no 5th gear. I fail to understand why the Packers should not trade down into the 20's and take the best TE in the class but using the 15th pick on Amari Rodgers 2.0 is a good idea.

[YoHoChecko]

In one week we will have a new Packer to discuss.

Real, tangible information. One more week. We’re so close.

[Madcity_matt]

Simple question: Which TE would be best for the Packers.

I would love Mayer. But Kincaid has much more possible upside. Then you have Washington being the physical freak that he is and likely RZ threat.

Tough call. Maybe there isn’t a bad choice. It’s tempting to get the most ready (Mayer). But then, to pass on greater upside would be tough.

Mayer is the best with the most upside.

It's just hard to use a first on a te.

Why? TE is a full time starter, slot is not. And yet people are saying the Packers should trade up to get a slot receiver with no 5th gear. I fail to understand why the Packers should not trade down into the 20's and take the best TE in the class but using the 15th pick on Amari Rodgers 2.0 is a good idea.

The hit rate and devy time on tight ends in a challenge. Based off that, I agree I don't want to use the #15 pick to take one. If we trade back, maybe, but I'd really like to double tap Washington and Laporta in round 2.

[YoHoChecko]

It is WILD how few DL there are in this draft with 34” arms and weigh above 300 pounds.

Almost all the length comes from skinny guys (or NTs).

Looking for a long, powerful, 5-tech (and yes I know many 5-techs are under 300, I just view that as a riskier prospect) and Dexter is really the only option. But he’s slow off the ball and Cynthia Freuland’s analytics have shown that speed off the ball is one of the things that most carries over from college to the pros.

I guess an Ojomo or Pickens (both in the low 290s) might be the best consolation prizes. But dang, it’s tough out here for the DL this year.

I do love Benton but he’s more of a 3-tech? I dunno. I’m probably overthinking the positional details here

[APB]

So this "cognition" thing is the new priority measuring stick for QB's, is that right?




CJ Stroud...oof.