Rodgers Watch 2023

[Yoop]

So every one agrees TT was just a puppet at that time in his career, yet multiple know-it-alls still want to get in pop shots at Wally. Lol. Cool forum.

Well yeah, for exclusively pinning the blame of Kevin King over TJ Watt on Brian Gutenkunst, even though he wasn't GM till about 8 months after that. Comments like that probably deserves a few popped shots.

Thanks for the kind positive feedback on the forum, I think its cool too.

do you really care to know why people don't hang around here, I'll tell you my version, several posters here are more concerned with attacking me and a few others then they are concerned with talking Packer football.

pretty obvious to anyone that actually gives a &%$@

[YoHoChecko]

I heard that TT had been phased out and that Gute was more-or-less in charge of the draft that year. Dunno how true it is, certainly a hearsay thing so take that for what you will.

Unfortunately he was in cognitive decline for a while. I have a relative who, let's just say, works for the team and is close enough to know a good amount of things, and he said that it was obvious just by being in the room or elevator with TT that he was really struggling.

I also knew someone who worked for the team that year and they said people couldn’t tell TT anything after around 2pm or else he’d have forgotten it the next day and you’d have to have the conversation again.

It was BAD bad. It was professional malpractice not to have removed him.

That said, we still have no knowledge or insight into who was getting final say or calling the shots on that draft, and it’s absolutely silly to try to use those picks to evaluate any individual member of the GB front office from the outside. I bet looking back, even people *in the draft room* would bicker about who was to blame with different viewpoints.

[BF004]

not according to the article I just brought, and we don't know who was the leading person to make that pick, for all you know it could have been Russ Ball, you came in with a sarcastic remark when you new very likely Ted didn't make that pick

now I get it, you chimed in to defend Gute, who by all accounts has basically missed on a bunch of draft picks,

Brian Gutekunst was never mentioned in that article. I'm not a Gute defender. But I also won't standby when baseless claims of blame is laid at anyone. And that is exactly what Wally's was.

Now. BG was absolutely a leader of that committee and absolutely bears partial responsibility for the selection. But he wasn't the General Manager nor do we know BG would have traded down and taken King rather than TJ in 2017 like I hoped the Packers would.

It's a weird convenience of argument to tie "well Ted was incoherent so it was BG who pulled the lever on the poor 2017 top of the draft performance." Especially when it was Elliot Wolf who was the perceived #2 and the actual visual and public spokesman of the Packers draft that weekend. Not Brian Gutekunst.

NO ELLIOT WOLF WAS NOT THE #2 THAT was just a assumption by you. me and most of us here, find me something from the Packer FO that says he was.

Wally was basically right, and it doesn't matter who was in charge, hind sight says Watt was the better pick, you sure as hell where protecting Guty and so was Packfn.

Wolf spoke because Ted couldn't andf Guty probably didn't want to, duh, where is Elliot Wolf now, I doubt he was considered near as much as most of us think.

I get accused all the time of attacking posters, what a bunch of horse s..., you and 23 attacked what Wally said before he even finished typing, and in defense mind you of a GM that has missed on mostly 2 whole freaking drafts, give me a break.

t

Oh mike, take a breath.

A) Find a post where pckfn specifically attacked wally... Please

B) Reread your posts and your attacks on other posters.

C) Saying Gutekunst wasn't GM at the time isn't defending Gute. It was clearly a mistake/oversight by wally.

[Yoop]

Brian Gutekunst was never mentioned in that article. I'm not a Gute defender. But I also won't standby when baseless claims of blame is laid at anyone. And that is exactly what Wally's was.

Now. BG was absolutely a leader of that committee and absolutely bears partial responsibility for the selection. But he wasn't the General Manager nor do we know BG would have traded down and taken King rather than TJ in 2017 like I hoped the Packers would.

It's a weird convenience of argument to tie "well Ted was incoherent so it was BG who pulled the lever on the poor 2017 top of the draft performance." Especially when it was Elliot Wolf who was the perceived #2 and the actual visual and public spokesman of the Packers draft that weekend. Not Brian Gutekunst.

NO ELLIOT WOLF WAS NOT THE #2 THAT was just a assumption by you. me and most of us here, find me something from the Packer FO that says he was.

Wally was basically right, and it doesn't matter who was in charge, hind sight says Watt was the better pick, you sure as hell where protecting Guty and so was Packfn.

Wolf spoke because Ted couldn't andf Guty probably didn't want to, duh, where is Elliot Wolf now, I doubt he was considered near as much as most of us think.

I get accused all the time of attacking posters, what a bunch of horse s..., you and 23 attacked what Wally said before he even finished typing, and in defense mind you of a GM that has missed on mostly 2 whole freaking drafts, give me a break.

t

Oh mike, take a breath.

A) Find a post where pckfn specifically attacked wally... Please

B) Reread your posts and your attacks on other posters.

C) Saying Gutekunst wasn't GM at the time isn't defending Gute. It was clearly a mistake/oversight by wally.

Ted was GM on paper and title, I doubt he actually chose the players in that draft, either way it was another first pick bust on defense.

like everything here you, brandon, GPG act as though we are looking back from 20 years in the future to see who did the drafting and simply look for who was GM at that time, but this isn't 2033, Ted was no more capable to make those picks as I was, and if you'd bother to go look at reference to that draft most columnist don't think he did, as GPG and my article attest he couldn't even complete a presser with out forgetting what he was going to say, Elliot had to do it, ( and this is not me disrespecting either Ted or Gute)

[Scott4Pack]

Could I please ask the mods to remove/move any posts from the “Rodgers Watch 2023” thread that have nothing to do with an actual Rodgers watch? Sometimes, these threads simply spend too much effort in people bickering with each other. (They just won’t let it go.) Sometimes, I think the bickering has more posts than the actual topic of the tread.

When I see a thread that is “hijacked” by the arguments, I just ignore all of it. Unfortunately, I still have to see a glimpse of each post to make sure that I don’t miss something relevant about the real topic. Sad. If I weren’t more devoted to having an online place to talk Packer football, I’d have left this forum long ago. If that doesn’t disturb the ones who argue the most here, then that is probably the saddest thing of all.

I mean, peace guys! If I don’t or can’t agree with you, I’ll send you a PM. I don’t want to bother the “non-arguers” here. Please, please, please let’s all make this a better place and stay true to Packer football.

Peace!
:-)

[Yoop]

2017 was another example of the hit and miss efforts of positional drafting, sometimes ya get it right, sometimes ya don't, whomever it was considered CB a bigger need then edge rusher, so they slid back and took the best looking prospect still available, and it became a miss., again no different then some of the DL picks that proceeded it in prior drafts

[Pckfn23]

Pckfn 23: why bother to derail reality? yes history will show that Ted was GM in 2017, but we all know he was not capable of running a draft, there are plenty of other articles that will attest to that, so again why pop in and stipulate that fact?

Derail reality? You mean derail your $%@# delusions. I literally posted the date King was drafted and the date Gutekunst was inked as the GM. Nothing more.

Did you not read where I specifically said Thompson was in a mental decline? That does not mean Gutekunst made the pick!!!! Do you even know what the original statement from Wally was??

[Pckfn23]

not according to the article I just brought, and we don't know who was the leading person to make that pick, for all you know it could have been Russ Ball, you came in with a sarcastic remark when you new very likely Ted didn't make that pick

now I get it, you chimed in to defend Gute, who by all accounts has basically missed on a bunch of draft picks,

Brian Gutekunst was never mentioned in that article. I'm not a Gute defender. But I also won't standby when baseless claims of blame is laid at anyone. And that is exactly what Wally's was.

Now. BG was absolutely a leader of that committee and absolutely bears partial responsibility for the selection. But he wasn't the General Manager nor do we know BG would have traded down and taken King rather than TJ in 2017 like I hoped the Packers would.

It's a weird convenience of argument to tie "well Ted was incoherent so it was BG who pulled the lever on the poor 2017 top of the draft performance." Especially when it was Elliot Wolf who was the perceived #2 and the actual visual and public spokesman of the Packers draft that weekend. Not Brian Gutekunst.

NO ELLIOT WOLF WAS NOT THE #2 THAT was just a assumption by you. me and most of us here, find me something from the Packer FO that says he was.

Find us something that says Gutekunst was...

Wally was basically right, and it doesn't matter who was in charge, hind sight says Watt was the better pick, you sure as hell where protecting Guty and so was Packfn.

NO! He was not right. He specifically said Gutekunst was the person who picked King!!! Follow along!

you and 23 attacked what Wally said before he even finished typing,

Again in your aggressive attacking nature, you failed to read and comprehend the conversation as a whole. I stated facts about when King was drafted and when Gutekunst was promoted. There was no attack.

[NCF]

I think it was fairly common knowledge that Eliot Wolf was the #2 in his final few seasons in GB. Gutey and Wolf had identical titles for one season. Wolf was given it first and then received another promotion after that. If that isn't a clear indication for how the Packers felt about these two between 2015-2017, I don't know what else would be.

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[Madcity_matt]

Maybe we just have a "roundtable" thread on Gutey and Murphy, and those that want to have this argument in perpetuity lol about how they are good, horrible or somewhere in between.

[paco]

So..... What's Rodgers up to?

[BF004]

NO ELLIOT WOLF WAS NOT THE #2 THAT was just a assumption by you. me and most of us here, find me something from the Packer FO that says he was.

Wally was basically right, and it doesn't matter who was in charge, hind sight says Watt was the better pick, you sure as hell where protecting Guty and so was Packfn.

Wolf spoke because Ted couldn't andf Guty probably didn't want to, duh, where is Elliot Wolf now, I doubt he was considered near as much as most of us think.

I get accused all the time of attacking posters, what a bunch of horse s..., you and 23 attacked what Wally said before he even finished typing, and in defense mind you of a GM that has missed on mostly 2 whole freaking drafts, give me a break.

t

Oh mike, take a breath.

A) Find a post where pckfn specifically attacked wally... Please

B) Reread your posts and your attacks on other posters.

C) Saying Gutekunst wasn't GM at the time isn't defending Gute. It was clearly a mistake/oversight by wally.

Ted was GM on paper and title, I doubt he actually chose the players in that draft, either way it was another first pick bust on defense.

like everything here you, brandon, GPG act as though we are looking back from 20 years in the future to see who did the drafting and simply look for who was GM at that time, but this isn't 2033, Ted was no more capable to make those picks as I was, and if you'd bother to go look at reference to that draft most columnist don't think he did, as GPG and my article attest he couldn't even complete a presser with out forgetting what he was going to say, Elliot had to do it, ( and this is not me disrespecting either Ted or Gute)

No one is looking back from 20 years in the future.

Wally made a mistake, he solely assigned blame for King on Gutenkunst. He did not imply Ted was incapable of making a pick. The correct information was noted.

So this isn't about whether or not, to what capacity Thompson did or didn't make a pick, and isn't some big crazy thing to defend Gute. Your argument you've been saying doesn't even defend wally or condemn others, you are off on your own little tangent. This wasn't about Ted Thompson at all.

[lupedafiasco]

I think everyone can agree that Ted was unfit for his position towards the end of his tenure. There is the actual evidence of the decline of the franchise. The insider stories that have all corroborated each other at this point have to be taken into account. Then the fact that he passed shortly after being removed.

I don’t know what Murphy was doing during this time.

[Half Empty]

You might be surprised (although many wouldn't be) by how much faster one can get through almost any thread just by ignoring one poster. And, when one checks out the ignored posts once in a while, just to be sure, how little of anything worthwhile one has missed.

[Yoop]

You might be surprised (although many wouldn't be) by how much faster one can get through almost any thread just by ignoring one poster. And, when one checks out the ignored posts once in a while, just to be sure, how little of anything worthwhile one has missed.

If we relied on reading anything you bring this forum would have went extinct years ago

in fact the only time you ever post is a attack towards me,

[APB]

You might be surprised (although many wouldn't be) by how much faster one can get through almost any thread just by ignoring one poster. And, when one checks out the ignored posts once in a while, just to be sure, how little of anything worthwhile one has missed.

If we relied on reading anything you bring this forum would have went extinct years ago

in fact the only time you ever post is a attack towards me,

Interesting that you would respond as the presumed person being referenced...

[Yoop]

You might be surprised (although many wouldn't be) by how much faster one can get through almost any thread just by ignoring one poster. And, when one checks out the ignored posts once in a while, just to be sure, how little of anything worthwhile one has missed.

If we relied on reading anything you bring this forum would have went extinct years ago

in fact the only time you ever post is a attack towards me,

Interesting that you would respond as the presumed person being referenced...

aint my first day at the planet, and now the Huddle

[YoHoChecko]

Since this thread has gone off the rails anyway, now seems maybe a good time to impart a little advice I've always had for debate/argument in public spaces.

And look, have fun and post however you like. A lot of people don't like how I post. So I'm no better or worse than anyone else.

But a guideline I try to hold to is that when debating in public, argue for the outside listener/reader, not for the person you're arguing against. Once you feel confident that an objective reader would find merit in what you have to say as opposed to your adversary.

Once you feel satisfied that the reader will be able to weigh your side and theirs, let the other person continue to be wrong. You don't have to keep going at each other correcting each misstep. If you try to convince someone that THEY are wrong, it rarely resolves itself. But if you try to convince people that someone else is wrong, you can do so with quick work and move on.

Just a thought. Like I said, post as you wish. Just seems like many people are having issues with the way things are going so I thought I'd share.

[YoHoChecko]

Since this thread has gone off the rails anyway, now seems maybe a good time to impart a little advice I've always had for debate/argument in public spaces.

And look, have fun and post however you like. A lot of people don't like how I post. So I'm no better or worse than anyone else.

But a guideline I try to hold to is that when debating in public, argue for the outside listener/reader, not for the person you're arguing against. Once you feel confident that an objective reader would find merit in what you have to say as opposed to your adversary.

Once you feel satisfied that the reader will be able to weigh your side and theirs, let the other person continue to be wrong. You don't have to keep going at each other correcting each misstep. If you try to convince someone that THEY are wrong, it rarely resolves itself. But if you try to convince people that someone else is wrong, you can do so with quick work and move on.

Just a thought. Like I said, post as you wish. Just seems like many people are having issues with the way things are going so I thought I'd share.

I declare peace!

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[Pckfn23]

Since this thread has gone off the rails anyway, now seems maybe a good time to impart a little advice I've always had for debate/argument in public spaces.

And look, have fun and post however you like. A lot of people don't like how I post. So I'm no better or worse than anyone else.

But a guideline I try to hold to is that when debating in public, argue for the outside listener/reader, not for the person you're arguing against. Once you feel confident that an objective reader would find merit in what you have to say as opposed to your adversary.

Once you feel satisfied that the reader will be able to weigh your side and theirs, let the other person continue to be wrong. You don't have to keep going at each other correcting each misstep. If you try to convince someone that THEY are wrong, it rarely resolves itself. But if you try to convince people that someone else is wrong, you can do so with quick work and move on.

Just a thought. Like I said, post as you wish. Just seems like many people are having issues with the way things are going so I thought I'd share.

I wish it was as simple as debating right or wrong, but sadly it isn't. It too often jumps completely away from the topic being debated as exemplified right here: