Rodgers Traded

[Yoop]

I think the most probable result is going to be the most frustrating result.

1. Rodgers is going to go to New York and have success because the Jets are good and Rodgers can still be good.

2. The Packers are going to have success in the long run because overall the Packers are a solid franchise with a lot of talent at a lot of positions.

I suspect this will be similar to the Favre situation where Favre was great in New York (before the injury) and in Minnesota and low and behold the terrible and stupid Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy also knew what they were doing...but not obvious dynasty level.

People are in love with absolutes. Our country is in absolutist culture. I don't think we are going to get that here. I expect the Packers to have 2 1sts next year and both being in that 18 to 25 range.

I was also reminded of the Favre debate. Lots of Favre loyalists were like "See?? Favre is playing better and winning more. TT is an idiot CONFIRMEDt!" Turns out, wasn't that simple.

that divorce blew up the original Pigskin Prattle at the GBPG forum which I think turned into the Journal Sentenal, or Julies World as many of us new her personally, unfortunately

good thing we only have to go through this kind a thing every 15 or so years, hope the trend continues.

so many great passes, when he had Jennings Nelson Cobb Tae, Finley, that offense was almost unstoppable, best way for your QB not to develop tunnel vision is to give them more to look at, always been what I thought anyway, to bad our GM's didn't seem to.

not to single out Ted or Guty, Ron Wolf was the same way with Favre, maybe it's something in the water

3 best GM's we've had since Jack, so thats not bad

[Drj820]

Rodgers heroics brought me a lot of happy Sundays that would not have been happy without his heroics.

Not gonna apologize for wishing him well in New York. If they play the packers, Il be pulling for the Packers.

No one has any issue with the well-wishing.

It's that second sentence in your original post that brought up this debate:

im pulling for the Jets and Rodgers to do well. If he wins a super bowl in New York people will see how much the Packers coaches and front office held him back.

But I want to move on from the semantic back and forth and talk about another, related statement. It may deserve a thread, as someone suggested, dedicated to the endless argument over the current management, but it's been something I've wanted to say for a while.

I know you are nervous that rodgers is gonna look a lot better because for years you’ve defended the front office with every move and at every turn…

Here lies an essay. Feel free to skip. This is almost entirely about me, and why I really like Gutenkunst.

There is a common sentiment among posters who dislike the current front offense and coaching regime, or posters who have chosen to defend Rodgers at the expense of others in the org, that there is some sort of collective on this site that blindly defends management at every turn in every instance.

First, I would say that's mostly untrue. Most of the people who defend the front office can list several times they have taken issue with their decisions. For my sake, I literally said earlier today in the Draft thread that Wyatt was on my "please don't draft" list last year and we took him. I have also said incredibly clearly, repeatedly, for two years that keeping Rodgers last year wa sa mistake, the contract he was given was a mistake, and letting Davante Adams leave was a mistake. So there isn't blind devotion.

But for myself, personally, I can show receipts that I like the moves this team makes and I like defending this front office is because they make moves I advocate for IN ADVANCE. I'm not retro-actively adjusting; I'm not evaluating in hindsight

For better and for worse, Gutey seems to see the job similarly to me, right from his first draft.

In 2018, Jaire Alexander was one of "my guys" in the pre-draft process. I compared him to Revis.

In 2019, I had compared Savage to Nick Collins pre-draft (this one counts as for worse). I liked Jenkins though was disappointed to have missed on Dalton Risner by a couple picks ). I made a mist of head coaching candidates I wanted and MLF was near the top. I was the first person on the board to mention him, during the prior season, before MM was even fired, as a candidate that intrigued me because of his track record of getting the best play out of his QBs and Rodgers' need for a reboot.

In 2020, I made a post about the 5 players I most wanted the Packers to draft. It included JRJ and Josiah Deguara. I also was VERY high on AJ Dillon. I made many posts in the wake of the draft about how difficult it was to process a draft that got several individual players I liked, while taking them at values I did not like, and missing out on our biggest need, WR.

In 2021 I put 7th round pick Kylin Hill in every one of my mocks. I wrote about it. Every one. When we signed DeVondre Campbell, my first post about it was in all-caps "I HAVE WANTED THIS FOR YEARS."

In 2022 I desperately wanted Christian Watson. I also successfully nailed Zach Tom and Carpenter as Packers picks in the correct rounds.

I also advocated strongly for signing Sammy Watson, which... oops.


This is not to brag. Some of those moves flopped, some didn't. The point is that I defend our current management because we SO OFTEN see eye-to-eye on the team's major issues and because they have overseen some remarkable, though limited, success. 5 years, 3 13-win seasons, multiple NFC Championship games.

I am not a rose-colored glasses homer. I am a person whose favorite team has a management team that broadly makes moves I would like them to make more often than not, and whose results have made for an excellent, fun, rooting experience on the field more often than not. We're a competitive team that is in almost every game, wins much more often than they lose and has been a legitimate championship contender (depending on how you define that) for 3 of the past 5 years.

I'm having a blast as a Packers fan. I like the moves the team makes BEFORE they make them, not some retro-fitting hindsight, and it's a really enjoyable time for me to root for the Packers.

The exception was last season. That was not fun. Nothing was clicking; everything seemed disjointed. The good players underperformed and the JAGs were exposed and the mood around the team was tense. EVEN THOUGH that was consistent with my thoughts that we held onto Rodgers a year too long and gave up on Davante too soon--even though there was a chance to feel vindicated by this outcome, I just felt miserable about the team. I would have so much rather have been wrong about whether or not Rodgers could succeed in an offense in transition; or whether or not the offense could transition quickly to young WRs without someone like Davante in the room to be a stable base.

Anyway, this is an essay not an internet post. But when it comes to me, at least, and my relationship with Gutey and the team, I am not blindly defending moves I would normally disagree with because I am a homer and a Packers fan. I am rooting for a guy who sees the football world similarly to me while also rooting for my team, and openly disagreeing when things don't go my way, while hoping to be wrong.

This year, I have put my stamp on two issues: No Dalton Kincaid and We Should Have Traded Bakh. One ship has sailed when we restructured his contract. One ship may sail this weekend; who knows. But I am rooting for Bakhtiari to be great this year and to stay healthy. And if we draft Kincaid I will root for him to become the next Cooper Kupp. But that doesn't mean I'll be "defending the org."

I would rather root for good outcomes than be right. But it is really special, as a fan, when those things align; when you have a GM who keeps doing things similarly to your thoughts and opinions so you get to root for the team and root to be right. And even more special when your rooting interests all work out. Christian Watson looks like That Dude. Jaire Alexander is the highest paid CB in the league. AJ Dillon is one of the best personalities on the team. JRJ was, indeed, the safest 6th round pick available (which is what I hailed him as). AND the Packers kept winning.

Obviously, we all wish we had a Super Bowl to show for this time period. Obviously, it would be easier to settle differences and debates had we won one (though I think the "Rodgers carried a weak franchise to the Lombardi" crowd would still exist.) But as it is, I have the great benefit of rooting for a perennially successful franchise with a leadership structure that sees football similarly to me and several individual players I love rooting for. If that makes me a homer or "defending the management at every turn," so be it. But it comes from a true alignment of opinions and ideas, not from some blind devotion.

Again, thank you for the novel.

And again, me saying that if Rodgers wins with the Jets that his time in GB will be exonerated…has absolutely nothing to do with the Packers going forward. It has to do with the past.
“Held him back” is a phrase that refers to the past tense fyi.

You are only getting so defensive because of your love for Gute. Your love is why you have now written two novels prompted only by me wishing Rodgers well in the future.

My comment has to do with further back than Gute tho. Has a lot to do with Murphy who employed someone incapable of the job in their last couple years of life (rest in peace TT)

[texas]

Yeah fr I don't think Murphy gets enough discredit. Inherited TT while he was at the top of his game, with a loaded front office and MM (who I still believe was a top 5 coach at the time although the game later passed him by). Won 1 Super Bowl from those pre-existing parts and has generally seemed aloof, which is great in some regards but it really bit us in the ass for a while there too. Overall he has been mediocre, which if you are any of the other 3 teams in our division would be great, but ultimately underwhelming given who preceded him over our long history.

[BF004]

This sounds a lot better.

[Drj820]

Yeah fr I don't think Murphy gets enough discredit. Inherited TT while he was at the top of his game, with a loaded front office and MM (who I still believe was a top 5 coach at the time although the game later passed him by). Won 1 Super Bowl from those pre-existing parts and has generally seemed aloof, which is great in some regards but it really bit us in the ass for a while there too. Overall he has been mediocre, which if you are any of the other 3 teams in our division would be great, but ultimately underwhelming given who preceded him over our long history.

Murphy would not have a job right now if Rodgers hadn’t put so much lipstick on his pig from about 2015-2019.

[YoHoChecko]

Yeah fr I don't think Murphy gets enough discredit. Inherited TT while he was at the top of his game, with a loaded front office and MM (who I still believe was a top 5 coach at the time although the game later passed him by). Won 1 Super Bowl from those pre-existing parts and has generally seemed aloof, which is great in some regards but it really bit us in the ass for a while there too. Overall he has been mediocre, which if you are any of the other 3 teams in our division would be great, but ultimately underwhelming given who preceded him over our long history.

I can jump all aboard Murphy criticism. Unacceptable that he left TT in charge when his illness was known and apparent to everyone. The power restructure is not ideal. His statements during the Rodgers ordeal showed a lack of public relations competence. I don't know who selected MLF between Murphy and Gutey or whether there was agreement, but I did like that hire and still do, pending the upcoming season.

So yeah, I am eager to see who follows Murphy

[Drj820]

Yeah fr I don't think Murphy gets enough discredit. Inherited TT while he was at the top of his game, with a loaded front office and MM (who I still believe was a top 5 coach at the time although the game later passed him by). Won 1 Super Bowl from those pre-existing parts and has generally seemed aloof, which is great in some regards but it really bit us in the ass for a while there too. Overall he has been mediocre, which if you are any of the other 3 teams in our division would be great, but ultimately underwhelming given who preceded him over our long history.

I can jump all aboard Murphy criticism. Unacceptable that he left TT in charge when his illness was known and apparent to everyone. The power restructure is not ideal. His statements during the Rodgers ordeal showed a lack of public relations competence. I don't know who selected MLF between Murphy and Gutey or whether there was agreement, but I did like that hire and still do, pending the upcoming season.

So yeah, I am eager to see who follows Murphy

What’s funny is I said “the front office”, which is led by Murphy. I never once even mentioned Gute by name. Yet you wrote a novel defending Gute. Lol

[YoHoChecko]

What’s funny is I said “the front office”, which is led by Murphy. I never once even mentioned Gute by name. Yet you wrote a novel defending Gute. Lol

My novel defending Gute was an openly-stated attempt to change the subject to a broader conversation about the current Packers management that seeps into every thread. Like I literally said "I want to move on from the semantic back and forth and talk about another, related statement. It may deserve a thread, as someone suggested, dedicated to the endless argument over the current management, but it's been something I've wanted to say for a while."

But you took it solely as a response to you.

[Pckfn23]

I think the most probable result is going to be the most frustrating result.

1. Rodgers is going to go to New York and have success because the Jets are good and Rodgers can still be good.

2. The Packers are going to have success in the long run because overall the Packers are a solid franchise with a lot of talent at a lot of positions.

I suspect this will be similar to the Favre situation where Favre was great in New York (before the injury) and in Minnesota and low and behold the terrible and stupid Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy also knew what they were doing...but not obvious dynasty level.

People are in love with absolutes. Our country is in absolutist culture. I don't think we are going to get that here. I expect the Packers to have 2 1sts next year and both being in that 18 to 25 range.

I was also reminded of the Favre debate. Lots of Favre loyalists were like "See?? Favre is playing better and winning more. TT is an idiot CONFIRMEDt!" Turns out, wasn't that simple.

Same situation here. It's simply a stance to further a narrative
If the Jets are good or even win the Super Bowl, that doesn't expose anything about the Packers. If the Packers do well or even win the Super Bowl, that would mean the front office did well, even if it takes a year or 2. Thus the Jets doing well does not prove anything about the Packers.

[go pak go]

I would rather root for good outcomes than be right. But it is really special, as a fan, when those things align; when you have a GM who keeps doing things similarly to your thoughts and opinions so you get to root for the team and root to be right. And even more special when your rooting interests all work out. Christian Watson looks like That Dude. Jaire Alexander is the highest paid CB in the league. AJ Dillon is one of the best personalities on the team. JRJ was, indeed, the safest 6th round pick available (which is what I hailed him as). AND the Packers kept winning.

The greatest joy I have ever had as a fan was watching that 2010 team do it. I was a Teddy Cabana boy. I believed in everything he and Mac were doing. And man did people disagree with me FERVENTLY.

So yes. Watching them be right after all they went through was so gratifying. And watching them lose 2014 to prevent that 2nd ring was so heart wrenching. But I will also say watching Aaron lose against the Bucs and 49ers in 2020 and 2021 were equally as heart wrenching. Rodgers's legacy deserved more than two rings.

[packman114]

I will stoke the flames and say that Murphy is a f-ing genius. Rodgers was 90% retired after this season. If Murphy doesn't do his press comments about moving on...Rodgers retires and we get no draft capital. I think Murphy poked the bear on purpose to get this outcome. And MLF helps his buddy out at the same time.

[Scott4Pack]

This Rodgers trade is another proof that Guty is a better GM than some think he is.

A deep roster
A top shelf winning program (even if it hasn’t translated to wins later in January yet)
This trade, and getting equivalent 1st round pick from dead weight
Having acquired a top shelf talent for the new QB (I’m not saying that he doesn’t have to prove himself yet)

I could go on. But we take success in the NFL too casually. It’s a HARD thing to do. If people want to make their case that Guty is a bad GM, let a new thread be started please. But you guys really have your work cut out for you. I’d like to stick to comments in this thread about the actual trade please.

[BF004]

Even for those who would have greatly preferred to keep around Aaron and build around him for 2-3 more years, aren't you just a little relieved to not have to deal with those 'I don't have good cell service' comments?

[Yoop]

I will never miss folks here blame Rodgers for every loss, and I do hold the last few years of Teds tenure and certainly Guty for not supplying Rodgers with better receiving talent, again if ya want to stop a passer from developing tunnel vision, then give him more to look at then Just one quality receiver.

we all know this stuff, yet I get push back every time I bring it up.

and if the Jets go deeper in the PO's then we have the last few years, it sure as heck will be a reflection of that.

[YoHoChecko]

Even for those who would have greatly preferred to keep around Aaron and build around him for 2-3 more years, aren't you just a little relieved to not have to deal with those 'I don't have good cell service' comments?

It's my favorite.

It's the thing every NY beat writer will come back to and mention if there's ever a soured relationship with Rodgers. It's such a perfect low key introduction to what we're dealing with here.

[YoHoChecko]

Michael Robinson just went on NFL Network and pointed out that Rodgers is 1-4 in NFC Championship games and that Brady's last year in New England, Brady had no talent and still went 12-4

[BF004]

folks here blame Rodgers for every loss

Never happened. Not even remotely close.

[Yoop]

folks here blame Rodgers for every loss

Never happened. Not even remotely close.

sure it did, and I didn't say everyone

Yoho: look at the defenses Brady had, and Belichick is a great coach, he designs high % routes for all his receivers,

what happened here last year is no where near a reflection of Rodgers as a QB, again I expect him to be back to his prior ability, and the reason he didn't do our OTA's and off season work was his way of saying something to Gute and the FO

[Drj820]

folks here blame Rodgers for every loss

Never happened. Not even remotely close.

ive seen it

[BF004]

But you haven’t.

No one has ever blamed Aaron Rodgers for every loss.