Your Bottom 5 - Packers Draft

[YoHoChecko]

Who do you NOT want to see on our team come Saturday Night. Which prospects do you just not see for us? Who screams bust to you? Who's going to be drafted way above the value you'd be comfortable taking them?

Whatever the reason. Who's your No-Draft list?

[YoHoChecko]

1. Dalton Kincaid
2. Jalin Hyatt
3. Dontayvion Wicks
4. Calijah Kancey
5. Tank Dell

[Scott4Pack]

Kincaid.

I don’t have others. He’s on my top 5 list too. But I have to confess that his injury history is a huge concern. Plus, I don’t like it that he’s older and that by itself probably crosses him off the Packers list.

[Backthepack4ever]

Jordan Addison
Sid brown
Xavier Hutchinson
Cody Mauch
Top 20. Van Ness

[YoHoChecko]

Jordan Addison
Sid brown
Xavier Hutchinson
Cody Mauch
Top 20. Van Ness

!!

[Labrev]

1. Brian Bresee. Love the traits, but strikes me as a guy who lacks the "it" to put it together. I reserve the gamble for late Day 2.

2. Paris Johnson. 'Fine player, would be all for him if we had an LT need, but that's the least of our OL needs.

3. Calijah Kancey. I value interior penetrator IDL highly, can even get over him being short (helps win leverage battles) but lack of arm length when short is brutal.

4. CB(-Only) before Day 3. I don't care if Gonzales or Witherspoon are there and clearly the top guys. Unless it's a guy you plan to start at Safety or at least some hybrid CB/S role (a guy like Brian Branch makes sense for this) that gets almost as many snaps as a starter, there is just flat-out not enough value in CB for this team.

5. No smol guys. Ron Wolf said don't draft guys who are short and/or skinny, because undersized players' games don't translate well in cold weather football. So I am kind of "Out" on a large contingent of this year's WR class, including guys who I would love if I was a warm weather team.

I can make an exception for Zay Flowers because he's a Dawg, but the rest: Hyatt, Downs, Dell, Mims, Addison, etc... not really considering them for where they are expected to go.

[Yoop]

1. Brian Bresee. Love the traits, but strikes me as a guy who lacks the "it" to put it together. I reserve the gamble for late Day 2.

2. Paris Johnson. 'Fine player, would be all for him if we had an LT need, but that's the least of our OL needs.

3. Calijah Kancey. I value interior penetrator IDL highly, can even get over him being short (helps win leverage battles) but lack of arm length when short is brutal.

4. CB(-Only) before Day 3. I don't care if Gonzales or Witherspoon are there and clearly the top guys. Unless it's a guy you plan to start at Safety or at least some hybrid CB/S role (a guy like Brian Branch makes sense for this) that gets almost as many snaps as a starter, there is just flat-out not enough value in CB for this team.

5. No smol guys. Ron Wolf said don't draft guys who are short and/or skinny, because undersized players' games don't translate well in cold weather football. So I am kind of "Out" on a large contingent of this year's WR class, including guys who I would love if I was a warm weather team.

I can make an exception for Zay Flowers because he's a Dawg, but the rest: Hyatt, Downs, Dell, Mims, Addison, etc... not really considering them for where they are expected to go.

not sure why people look at Paris Johnson as just a T, he simply has elite size to be a T, but he can play any OL position, and this is Bahk's last season with us, and Toms or literally anyone else on our roster isn't and never will be as good a LT as Johnson, I'd be hard pressed to pass on him, in fact I very much doubt that I would.

[Labrev]

not sure why people look at Paris Johnson as just a T, he simply has elite size to be a T, but he can play any OL position, and this is Bahk's last season with us, and Toms or literally anyone else on our roster isn't and never will be as good a LT as Johnson, I'd be hard pressed to pass on him, in fact I very much doubt that I would.

I'm sure he can "play" any OL position, I just don't think he'd be good at any of them other than T. Guys who are tall and lack great power or anchor like Johnson usually do not make very good IOL.

As well, Johnson's strong suits are his smooth movement ability and footwork. So at G you really just play to his weaknesses and largely render his actual strengths useless.

Andy Justa'Blogger had Mike Wahle on his show and asked him how he ranks the Top 4 OL for us. He had Skoronski first. Jones and Wright were second and third though I forget in which order; I wanna say that order. He had Johnson last, doesn't dislike the guy but is skeptical that there is any appreciable difference between him and Tom. And you can't say Wahle is Justa Blogger, so HA!

[Yoop]

not sure why people look at Paris Johnson as just a T, he simply has elite size to be a T, but he can play any OL position, and this is Bahk's last season with us, and Toms or literally anyone else on our roster isn't and never will be as good a LT as Johnson, I'd be hard pressed to pass on him, in fact I very much doubt that I would.

I'm sure he can "play" any OL position, I just don't think he'd be good at any of them other than T. Guys who are tall and lack great power or anchor like Johnson usually do not make very good IOL.

As well, Johnson's strong suits are his smooth movement ability and footwork. So at G you really just play to his weaknesses and largely render his actual strengths useless.

Andy Justa'Blogger had Mike Wahle on his show and asked him how he ranks the Top 4 OL for us. He had Skoronski first. Jones and Wright were second and third though I forget in which order; I wanna say that order. He had Johnson last, doesn't dislike the guy but is skeptical that there is any appreciable difference between him and Tom. And you can't say Wahle is Justa Blogger, so HA!

Mike Wahle is simply a ex OL player, I value his opinion as such, but he's not a coach, so he is just a blogger who has taken his pro biotics

I to favor Skoronski, however I doubt either he or Johnson are available, but there sorta opposites, Skoronski is probably better suited to play inside and Johnson outside, again that doesn't mean either wouldn't be a great replacement for Bahk.

[APB]

I'm with [mention]Yoop[/mention] (yes, I know...like the sun aligning with Uranus...or up Uranus...whatever) in that I think OT will be the pick and if Johnson is there, it'll be him. I see the FO moving on from Bakh after this year and I'm not nearly as sold on Nijman and Tom (or those developmental guys) as the heirs apparent as some of you are.

I think Gute stays true to the Packer way and drafts for the future rather than offer immediate help for his new QB1 or, god forbid, spend another R1 pick on defense.

[Yoop]

I'm with @Yoop (yes, I know...like the sun aligning with Uranus...or up Uranus...whatever) in that I think OT will be the pick and if Johnson is there, it'll be him. I see the FO moving on from Bakh after this year and I'm not nearly as sold on Nijman and Tom (or those developmental guys) as the heirs apparent as some of you are.

I think Gute stays true to the Packer way and drafts for the future rather than offer immediate help for his new QB1 or, god forbid, spend another R1 pick on defense.

insults aside, I consider this the smartest thing you've maybe ever said

[BF004]

I think the more and more I go through this process, the less and less I 'hate' guys.

Like I was hugely against Jordan Addison, but his weight pretty much sorted that out in terms of expectations. And I think I've come around to him now that that is more known I guess. But like just thinking of him as some average WR1, just never saw it.

I think I am just more against bad process, like taking a TE in the first, or RT or maybe even off ball LB to an extent. Taking a guy at a position you really don't need which awkwardly forces your hand in future offseasons (Randall and Rollins pretty much made it so we couldn't resign Hyde or Hayward, AJ Dillon made it so we couldn't keep Jones and Williams, Love and Rodgers, etc. etc.). Or guys who just really aren't fits, Datone Jones.

[Yoop]

I think the more and more I go through this process, the less and less I 'hate' guys.

Like I was hugely against Jordan Addison, but his weight pretty much sorted that out in terms of expectations. And I think I've come around to him now that that is more know I guess. But like just thinking thinking of him as some average WR, just never saw it.

I think I am just more against bad process, like taking a TE in the first, or RT or maybe even off ball LB to an extent. Taking a guy at a position you really don't need which awkwardly forces your hand in future offseasons (Randall and Rollins pretty much made it so we couldn't resign Hyde or Hayward, AJ Dillon made it so we couldn't keep Jones and Williams, Love and Rodgers, etc. etc.). Or guys who just really aren't fits, Datone Jones.

LT, edge, CB, receiver after QB are my positional key positions, I can figure out everything else as we go along, Ala, Andrew Reid

if ya look at KIncaid as a TE it eliminates him, as a receiver though, he is in that group

[BF004]

I think the more and more I go through this process, the less and less I 'hate' guys.

Like I was hugely against Jordan Addison, but his weight pretty much sorted that out in terms of expectations. And I think I've come around to him now that that is more know I guess. But like just thinking thinking of him as some average WR, just never saw it.

I think I am just more against bad process, like taking a TE in the first, or RT or maybe even off ball LB to an extent. Taking a guy at a position you really don't need which awkwardly forces your hand in future offseasons (Randall and Rollins pretty much made it so we couldn't resign Hyde or Hayward, AJ Dillon made it so we couldn't keep Jones and Williams, Love and Rodgers, etc. etc.). Or guys who just really aren't fits, Datone Jones.

LT, edge, CB, receiver after QB are my positional key positions, I can figure out everything else as we go along, Ala, Andrew Reid

if ya look at KIncaid as a TE it eliminates him, as a receiver though, he is in that group

Even if you look at him as a WR, he's 24 and coming off a significant back injury. I don't think I'd have that WR in my top 13 without like Calvin Johnson measurables.

[YoHoChecko]

I think the more and more I go through this process, the less and less I 'hate' guys.

Like I was hugely against Jordan Addison, but his weight pretty much sorted that out in terms of expectations. And I think I've come around to him now that that is more known I guess. But like just thinking of him as some average WR1, just never saw it.

I think I am just more against bad process, like taking a TE in the first, or RT or maybe even off ball LB to an extent. Taking a guy at a position you really don't need which awkwardly forces your hand in future offseasons (Randall and Rollins pretty much made it so we couldn't resign Hyde or Hayward, AJ Dillon made it so we couldn't keep Jones and Williams, Love and Rodgers, etc. etc.). Or guys who just really aren't fits, Datone Jones.

That's so interesting. I mostly agree with you. I also dislike bad process, though I disagree with some of your examples of bad process.

And I too actually don't "hate" that many players and can come around to most of them--even a guy or two in my "bottom five."


My negative attachments to players come more from a social dynamic. I call it the "'What About Bob' Effect."
For those confused, What About Bob is a mediocre movie from the 1990s in which Bill Murray plays an annoying houseguest and Richard Dreyfus plays the family Dad. Murray is infuriating to Dreyfus, but everyone else seems to absolutely adore him and love having him around.

Eventually, Dreyfus blows a gasket and then he's the bad guy. But it wasn't his hate for Murray that drove him insane to the point of confrontation, it was everyone else not seeing it the way he did at all; it was his lack of being able to understand the perspective even of those he loved.


So when I tell you I hate Dalton Kincaid, it's almost like I'm telling you I love and respect your opinions.

[BF004]

My post was quoted a lot, so editing it won’t help. But I totally meant RB, not RT in the first.

[Labrev]

I'm with @Yoop (yes, I know...like the sun aligning with Uranus...or up Uranus...whatever) in that I think OT will be the pick and if Johnson is there, it'll be him. I see the FO moving on from Bakh after this year and I'm not nearly as sold on Nijman and Tom (or those developmental guys) as the heirs apparent as some of you are.

I think Gute stays true to the Packer way and drafts for the future rather than offer immediate help for his new QB1 or, god forbid, spend another R1 pick on defense.

It's not that I don't see justifiable value in going OT at our pick, but if that's the route we are gonna go with our first, I like any of the other guys better for it:

-- Skoronski is a better all-around OL and better addresses our need there
-- Jones is a higher-upside athlete who also offers value inside
-- Wright has better size to hold up at G if we play him there, or he can also be a good T for us albeit in a very different style than Johnson (but a style I think we could use more).

Ultimately, if Johnson is the pick either to start at RT this year or to sit and then take over after Bakhtiari... you can do a lot worse with your first round pick. It's not a bad pick at all, it's just not the route I want to go versus numerous other options.

[lupedafiasco]

Brian Branch
Dalton Kincaid in the 1st
Michael Mayer in the 1st
Peter Skoronski
Broderick Jones