Round 2 Pick 50 Jayden Reed

[Yoop]

Given Love's accuracy issues i would have preferred a wr that can go get the ball or get better separation.

Reminds me of Cobb.

which Cobb, the one who played banged up and struggled to separate, or the 2014 Cobb who separated to the tune of a 1300 yrd receiving season, Cobbs problem was he was always nursing injury, at 100% Cobb could separate in a phone booth, I'am guessing those that like Reed see some of the 2014 Cobb in him.

[YoHoChecko]

Given Love's accuracy issues i would have preferred a wr that can go get the ball or get better separation.

Reminds me of Cobb.

1) He was top 5 in this draft class in contested catch percentage
2) He's a slot who separates
3) "Reminds me of Cobb" is not in any way a negative statement and it's so short-sighted to remember him that way. Cobb was a very important piece of this offense for like 5 years (2012-2017) who came through clutch on multiple occasions and made a Pro Bowl.


So I agree, I'm glad to have found a guy who can separate underneath and grab off-target, contested catches. This guy reminds me of Cobb, and I'm pretty stoked about it.



Dane Brugler:

STRENGTHS: Above-average speed on vertical patterns and as a returner … uses subtle hesitation to lull corners and create stride separation … cornerbacks have a tough time matching his foot quickness at the top of routes and his acceleration out of breaks … impressive hand strength at the catch point … surprisingly effective finisher on contested balls … maintains his focus through contact and when adjusting to throws away from his frame …

Todd McShay

Reed was the most dynamic receiver at the Senior Bowl and continued to debunk theories of below-average speed by running a 4.45-second 40-yard dash at the combine. Reed's ability to accelerate off the line, beat press coverage and generate separation with savvy and quickness are what jump out on tape. He has above-average ball skills and is very dangerous after the catch.

Lance Zeirlein

Strengths
Highly competitive against bigger/stronger Ohio State corners in 2022.
Accelerates to his top speed in a hurry.
Keeps routes moving at an elevated tempo.
Good ball skills to track and time the deep throw.
Clever hands and positioning help carve out catch space.
Makes winning plays on back-shoulder throws.
Can be elusive when needed after the catch.
Has three career punt return touchdowns.

[Labrev]

Cobb was a fine player in his prime, definitely wouldn't complain about having that guy again.

But him as a comp for Reed doesn't quite land. I can see some similarities, but Reed feels like a different mold of slot. I remember Cobb as being a bit lither and shiftier, whereas Reed looks like a fast RB playing receiver. He feels more like a Deebo Samuel to me.

[YoHoChecko]

Cobb was a fine player in his prime, definitely wouldn't complain about having that guy again.

But him as a comp for Reed doesn't quite land. I can see some similarities, but Reed feels like a different mold of slot. I remember Cobb as being a bit lither and shiftier, whereas Reed looks like a fast RB playing receiver. He feels more like a Deebo Samuel to me.

If you mean a RB body, rather than usage, I just don't see that at all. Deebo was/is like 20 pounds heavier than both Cobb and Reed--that's what makes him more like a RB in the slot, the thicker body. Reed and Cobb are basically the same height/weight (Cobb 191 at the combine, Reed 191 at his pro day), ran almost exactly the same speed (4.45 vs. 4.46). Deebo was 215 at the combine.

If you mean RB usage/style... Deebo had 25 carries at 6.2 yards per attempt in college, while Reed has 18 carries at 2.9 yards per attempt. Cobb actually spent far more time in the backfield than both of them (over 200 carries at 5.8 per attempt), and Cobb continued to get backfield reps in Green Bay. So if you don't remember Cobb as being somewhat of a RB in the slot, then I'd venture to guess there's a mis-remembering going on.

Anyway, this is a little more aggressive than I intended as a nitpick, but I just think the "RB in the slot," "Deebo-style" misses the mark, both physically and stylistically. Deebo has been carrying the ball about 50 times a year the past couple of seasons. I don't want a guy of Reed's stature running the ball as much as Deebo does, lest he end up getting beat up and always-injured, like Cobb did carrying the ball about 10-15 times per year in his prime.

[BF004]

Given Love's accuracy issues i would have preferred a wr that can go get the ball or get better separation.

Reminds me of Cobb.

Fair point.

Be interesting to see Love finally have a dedicated and competent gameplan for him. Don’t think he’s had that since 2019. Wonder how that can impact accuracy. Or just general progression over the last 4 years.

I’ve also seen you mention separation a few times. Curious how you are concluding that. Have access to all-22 film and watch that? Scouting reports your trust? Metrics? Or just if he looks open more often than not when targeted.

[Acrobat]

How do we even know if Love has accuracy issues?

[Labrev]

How do we even know if Love has accuracy issues?

chiefs gaem.

[YoHoChecko]

How do we even know if Love has accuracy issues?

We obviously don't for sure, and this isn't really the thread to get into a Love quality debate. But I do think it's fair to say that in the limited time we've seen of him, KC and Philly, there were some things I'd call "ball placement" issues more than accuracy issues; where the ball gets to the receiver but not in the ideal spot for an easy catch or YAC.

But even if not specific to Love, bud saying he wants, basically, a guy who can be more open or create a larger catch radius is a perfectly normal thing to want for a new young QB.

I just think that Reed provides a lot more of that than he's being given credit for--and the guy who he was being compared to (Cobb) also provided a lot of that before injuries sapped a lot of his explosiveness.


Also, Cobb was my favorite Packers draft pick of all time and remains the only active player whose jersey I own (Reggie, Sharpe, Jennings, Woodson are the others), so I am a little defensive of Cobb. But for good reason. He was an awesome, clutch, impactful slot receiver for this team well into his second contract. And then he wasn't. But I think he is too often thought of as "Rodgers' buddy who stuck around making a small impact well past his prime" rather than "Bear killing, hail mary catching, clutch and dynamic slot man," which he was.

[Yoop]

lso, Cobb was my favorite Packers draft pick of all time and remains the only active player whose jersey I own (Reggie, Sharpe, Jennings, Woodson are the others), so I am a little defensive of Cobb. But for good reason. He was an awesome, clutch, impactful slot receiver for this team well into his second contract. And then he wasn't. But I think he is too often thought of as "Rodgers' buddy who stuck around making a small impact well past his prime" rather than "Bear killing, hail mary catching, clutch and dynamic slot man," which he was.

Cobb and Jennings imho where the two most ready to play WR's we've drafted the last 20 years, and Sherman let Jennings play, but McCarthy hardly let Cobb on the field as a rookie, I never understood that, he had almost a 1000 yrds his second year, one of my fav's too

I think Cobb will be a good vet in the room for the Jets, would have been a good one for us too

[bud fox]

Given Love's accuracy issues i would have preferred a wr that can go get the ball or get better separation.

Reminds me of Cobb.

1) He was top 5 in this draft class in contested catch percentage
2) He's a slot who separates
3) "Reminds me of Cobb" is not in any way a negative statement and it's so short-sighted to remember him that way. Cobb was a very important piece of this offense for like 5 years (2012-2017) who came through clutch on multiple occasions and made a Pro Bowl.


So I agree, I'm glad to have found a guy who can separate underneath and grab off-target, contested catches. This guy reminds me of Cobb, and I'm pretty stoked about it.



Dane Brugler:

STRENGTHS: Above-average speed on vertical patterns and as a returner … uses subtle hesitation to lull corners and create stride separation … cornerbacks have a tough time matching his foot quickness at the top of routes and his acceleration out of breaks … impressive hand strength at the catch point … surprisingly effective finisher on contested balls … maintains his focus through contact and when adjusting to throws away from his frame …

Todd McShay

Reed was the most dynamic receiver at the Senior Bowl and continued to debunk theories of below-average speed by running a 4.45-second 40-yard dash at the combine. Reed's ability to accelerate off the line, beat press coverage and generate separation with savvy and quickness are what jump out on tape. He has above-average ball skills and is very dangerous after the catch.

Lance Zeirlein

Strengths
Highly competitive against bigger/stronger Ohio State corners in 2022.
Accelerates to his top speed in a hurry.
Keeps routes moving at an elevated tempo.
Good ball skills to track and time the deep throw.
Clever hands and positioning help carve out catch space.
Makes winning plays on back-shoulder throws.
Can be elusive when needed after the catch.
Has three career punt return touchdowns.

I don't like contestable catches at college.
I think he would be good with an accurate qb like Cobb is. Reed looks to have good hands and run good routes similar to Cobb.
It looks like he doesn't get much separation at the catchpoint like Cobb which won't be good if Love still had accuracy issues.

Some people have compared him to Jennings but i don't see that at all. Jennings was a top outside 1 in this league.

Sorry nearly forgot this scouting report I found on quick google because I know you like them -
NFL.com analyst Lance Zierlein
“Utility wideout with the ability to take snaps at multiple receiver positions while offering both kickoff and punt return talent. Reed looks smaller in many of his matchups, but he is rarely deterred by size. He’s too tight-hipped for stop-start routes on the tree, but he operates with good route speed and should improve his ability to separate with additional development and experience on the next level. His ball skills and feel for positioning on deep throws and jump balls are unquestioned. Limiting his focus drops on short and intermediate throws will be critical to becoming a long-term NFL contributor.”

[bud fox]

Given Love's accuracy issues i would have preferred a wr that can go get the ball or get better separation.

Reminds me of Cobb.

Fair point.

Be interesting to see Love finally have a dedicated and competent gameplan for him. Don’t think he’s had that since 2019. Wonder how that can impact accuracy. Or just general progression over the last 4 years.

I’ve also seen you mention separation a few times. Curious how you are concluding that. Have access to all-22 film and watch that? Scouting reports your trust? Metrics? Or just if he looks open more often than not when targeted.

Just whatever is on YouTube.

[NCF]

I still think he looks more like Greg Jennings than he does Randall Cobb. Very fluid and that can go just as far in creating separation and size and speed.

[Pckfn23]

I still think he looks more like Greg Jennings than he does Randall Cobb. Very fluid and that can go just as far in creating separation and size and speed.

Was my thoughts out of the gate as well.

[YoHoChecko]

You said you wanted a WR that can "go get the ball" and one that created better separation. I showed you scouting reports that indicated both. I took "go get the ball" as being a guy with a big catch radius and who can win contested catches, but since you said you don't like contested catches in college (and I totally get that; I'm with you; more on that below), let me highlight the other things my scouting reports (including by the sameguy you cited) were supposed to highlight--the separation:

Dane Brugler:

STRENGTHS: uses subtle hesitation to lull corners and create stride separation … cornerbacks have a tough time matching his foot quickness at the top of routes and his acceleration out of breaks

Todd McShay

Reed was the most dynamic receiver at the Senior Bowl. Reed's ability to accelerate off the line, beat press coverage and generate separation with savvy and quickness are what jump out on tape.

Lance Zeirlein

Strengths
Accelerates to his top speed in a hurry.
Keeps routes moving at an elevated tempo.
Clever hands and positioning help carve out catch space.

Those are all reports not only that he creates separation, but the specifics on how....

Of course those were the positive. You did find a comment that mentioned tight hips for certain routes, but even that quote indicated the tools to become an even better separator in the NFL, bolded below:

Sorry nearly forgot this scouting report I found on quick google because I know you like them -
NFL.com analyst Lance Zierlein
“Utility wideout with the ability to take snaps at multiple receiver positions while offering both kickoff and punt return talent. Reed looks smaller in many of his matchups, but he is rarely deterred by size. He’s too tight-hipped for stop-start routes on the tree, but he operates with good route speed and should improve his ability to separate with additional development and experience on the next level. His ball skills and feel for positioning on deep throws and jump balls are unquestioned. Limiting his focus drops on short and intermediate throws will be critical to becoming a long-term NFL contributor.”

Now, as for separation and contested catches:

I don't like contestable catches at college.

I’ve also seen you mention separation a few times. Curious how you are concluding that. Have access to all-22 film and watch that? Scouting reports your trust? Metrics? Or just if he looks open more often than not when targeted.

Just whatever is on YouTube.

This may be the problem. Most of YouTube is highlight reels. A guy who makes a lot of contested catches will see those show up in the highlights. Because--especially for a shorter guy--going up in traffic and reeling one in makes people go "wow!"

But he caught more than 200 balls for more than 2,800 yards over the past 4 years. Most of those were NOT contested. The plays where he separates more and is open probably aren't included as much in the highlights. You have to combine what you see, what the highlights show, what you read, and hopefully, you can find some game "cut-ups" that just show every target for a player in a game.

I don't see any reason to conclude that Reed has trouble separating. Nor is there any reason to conclude that Randall Cobb, fresh out of college, had any trouble separating. It wasn't until later in his career when some leg injuries had taken his explosive edge away that that happened.



So in short ( ), I agree with those comparing him to Cobb, but I disagree with the characterization of both Cobb and of Reed as guys who can't separate and have small catch radiuses.

I disagree with comparisons to Deebo because he's so much smaller and should be used more as a pure receiver and not as a regular ball carrier (some jet sweeps aside).

I'm not sold on Jennings comps because I thought Jennings (like Davante) just had a special release package and instinct that put him in a separate, elite category for getting into his routes. Reed can create space and beat guys at the line, but I don't see that same elite knack for it. But I'm open to being wrong on that one

[bud fox]

[mention]YoHoChecko[/mention]

Agree Jennings was a true x with a great release.

Reed looks like he will be slot or z.

He looks like Cobb to me. I don't think that's a bad thing and much better than amari but I don't know how well it will go with Love unless Love's accuracy has improved.

[Captain_Ben]

Given Love's accuracy issues i would have preferred a wr that can go get the ball or get better separation.

Reminds me of Cobb.

which Cobb, the one who played banged up and struggled to separate, or the 2014 Cobb who separated to the tune of a 1300 yrd receiving season, Cobbs problem was he was always nursing injury, at 100% Cobb could separate in a phone booth, I'am guessing those that like Reed see some of the 2014 Cobb in him.

Cobb could separate in the slot because it's easier for anyone to separate in the slot. He couldn't separate consistently on the boundary, even when he was healthy.

[Bogey]

I'm gonna have to make a camp pilgrammage for this.

I'll be there every day.

[Labrev]

It's been a while since I have gone to Packers 'camp; I gotta make the trip this year as well.

[Bogey]

It's been a while since I have gone to Packers 'camp; I gotta make the trip this year as well.

I'm right here every day during training camp, where the players cross Oneida Street.

IMG_7248.jpg (2.09 MiB) Viewed 419 times

[Yoop]

Given Love's accuracy issues i would have preferred a wr that can go get the ball or get better separation.

Reminds me of Cobb.

which Cobb, the one who played banged up and struggled to separate, or the 2014 Cobb who separated to the tune of a 1300 yrd receiving season, Cobbs problem was he was always nursing injury, at 100% Cobb could separate in a phone booth, I'am guessing those that like Reed see some of the 2014 Cobb in him.

Cobb could separate in the slot because it's easier for anyone to separate in the slot. He couldn't separate consistently on the boundary, even when he was healthy.

not sure why you would think that, slot is a high traffic area, often the slot receiver is double bracketed for the first 10 yrds on every route he runs, and Cobb was a seam buster, there was a graph with every route Cobb ran in that 1300 yrd seasons and % of routes run in each, and there where plenty in every route in our schemes.

the only thing that held Cobbs stats down is his health and his coach.