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Yeah I think the level of consultation that Drj is trying to push is pretty challenging to implement in practice.
First off, you need to make these decisions pretty quick. Usually I need to make an offer, or at least string heavily, within 24 - 48 hours after interview. Additionally, you are asking the player committee on specific people when they weren't involved in the interview process and likely have very little information on the actual coach. So what input could these players actually provide beyond what they provided in December?
You could argue the player committee could have been involved in the actual interviews but something tells me that players wouldn't want to come back to Green Bay to interview a coach during their offseason. Rodgers is impossible to get ahold of after the season as it is.
Just to be clear though, I am not saying this is what we SHOULD have done.
I’m just saying that what we did, did not count as “being consulted” to Rodgers and I am agreeing with him that what we did gives him wiggle room to claim that.
It’s not that he should have been consulted every step of the way, it’s that he obviously thought he had earned a little more input than he got and that’s what he’s telling us about.
If Aaron was willing, I would have scheduled a good 30 minutes for him to sit in with each candidate, Gute and Murphy and Russ, and basically let the coach try to sell his offensive scheme and plane, let Aaron ask a few questions.
I mean the QB coach relationship is super important as we learned, and we were locked into that QB for basically the length of the coaches contract, give or take. I just would have valued his opinion. Certainly not to the extent of who do you want, but I’d want to get someone where Aaron would feel indebted to work with.
I do think Lafleur turned out to be a good hire. So everyone involved should be pretty happy. But yes, what you are suggesting would be pretty normal for when an org is making a coaching change while having a HOF Qb I would guess.
In addition, it is probably what Rodgers desired and would he had in mind when he talked about being consulted.
I def think the 9 man pow wow was just a courtesy to those guys and didn’t have much impact. They could have all said 9 different things.
Another angle is that it’s very possible Murphy was already considering a life without Rodgers at QB for the Packers so he didn’t really want him too involved. He wanted a guy who could get 12 back on track, but also wanted a guy that could train a young guy. No need for 12 to be a part of that conversation.
If Aaron was willing, I would have scheduled a good 30 minutes for him to sit in with each candidate, Gute and Murphy and Russ, and basically let the coach try to sell his offensive scheme and plane, let Aaron ask a few questions.
I mean the QB coach relationship is super important as we learned, and we were locked into that QB for basically the length of the coaches contract, give or take. I just would have valued his opinion. Certainly not to the extent of who do you want, but I’d want to get someone where Aaron would feel indebted to work with.
this I think is what Rodgers expected, people act as though Rodgers is just another player, and that is selling him short, it's not about who has final say, it's just another validating opinion from a insider that will probably be one of the closets ties with the new coach, so that relationship is very important, what Gute and Murphy did amounts to get along with the new coach, he's your boss, no one likes that approach.
Another angle is that it’s very possible Murphy was already considering a life without Rodgers at QB for the Packers so he didn’t really want him too involved. He wanted a guy who could get 12 back on track, but also wanted a guy that could train a young guy. No need for 12 to be a part of that conversation.
I doubt that very much, Murphy is the guy that Paid Rodgers a 100 mil the year prior to not make waves
Another angle is that it’s very possible Murphy was already considering a life without Rodgers at QB for the Packers so he didn’t really want him too involved. He wanted a guy who could get 12 back on track, but also wanted a guy that could train a young guy. No need for 12 to be a part of that conversation.
I doubt that very much, Murphy is the guy that Paid Rodgers a 100 mil the year prior to not make waves
Beginning with the firing of Mike McCarthy on Dec. 2, Murphy formed a search committee that included Ball, Gutekunst, chief operating officer and general counsel Ed Policy, vice president of human resources Nicole Ledvina and vice president of communications Jason Wahlers.
Internally, Murphy and Gutekunst called together the Packers’ nine-member player leadership council Dec. 31 that featured key players from each position group, including quarterback Aaron Rodgers.No candidates were discussed, but rather the personality traits and leadership style the players were seeking.
Murphy then went outside the organization and tapped into the National Football League’s Career Development Advisory Panel, a group of seven former head coaches and executives that annually provides a list of coaching candidates to teams, and the Fritz Pollard Alliance, which promotes diversity and equality in NFL hiring practices.
The Packers settled on 10 candidates who were interviewed, beginning with former Indianapolis Colts coach Chuck Pagano and former Detroit Lions coach Jim Caldwell during the season. Interim head coach Joe Philbin was interviewed on Jan. 2.
Boom. Aaron Rodgers was consulted, so we can hopefully get away from that argument. Thank you!
As expected, the discussion moved away from if Aaron was consulted to the level of consultation wasn't enough
If Aaron was willing, I would have scheduled a good 30 minutes for him to sit in with each candidate, Gute and Murphy and Russ, and basically let the coach try to sell his offensive scheme and plane, let Aaron ask a few questions.
I mean the QB coach relationship is super important as we learned, and we were locked into that QB for basically the length of the coaches contract, give or take. I just would have valued his opinion. Certainly not to the extent of who do you want, but I’d want to get someone where Aaron would feel indebted to work with.
this I think is what Rodgers expected, people act as though Rodgers is just another player, and that is selling him short, it's not about who has final say, it's just another validating opinion from a insider that will probably be one of the closets ties with the new coach, so that relationship is very important, what Gute and Murphy did amounts to get along with the new coach, he's your boss, no one likes that approach.
Which is back to my original point when someone acted like this was a closed case because Murph had a pow wow with 9 guys about personality traits…Rodgers expected to be involved ALOT more than that…and maybe even deserved to be involved more than that.
Il say this, the answer is probably in the middle. Should rodgers have been equal to Murphy in the hiring process? Heck no.
Should he have been placated a bit, made to feel involved, and would it have been smart to let him voice opinions along the way? Absolutely.
The fact that none of this happened is a good reason why the HOF qb is in NY
If Aaron was willing, I would have scheduled a good 30 minutes for him to sit in with each candidate, Gute and Murphy and Russ, and basically let the coach try to sell his offensive scheme and plane, let Aaron ask a few questions.
I mean the QB coach relationship is super important as we learned, and we were locked into that QB for basically the length of the coaches contract, give or take. I just would have valued his opinion. Certainly not to the extent of who do you want, but I’d want to get someone where Aaron would feel indebted to work with.
Regardless, mit or mitout the big annoying, arrogant and narcisstic cheese ... the entire committee has failed so far. People need to remember the forests, not just the trees and weeds. Gutey ist nicht so gut so far.
Boom. Aaron Rodgers was consulted, so we can hopefully get away from that argument. Thank you!
As expected, the discussion moved away from if Aaron was consulted to the level of consultation wasn't enough
I’m with Aaron on this. A nine man pow wow on personality traits and never any more involvement along the way and never being approached individually as a HOF qb, is not “consulting Aaron”
Yeah I think the level of consultation that Drj is trying to push is pretty challenging to implement in practice.
First off, you need to make these decisions pretty quick. Usually I need to make an offer, or at least string heavily, within 24 - 48 hours after interview. Additionally, you are asking the player committee on specific people when they weren't involved in the interview process and likely have very little information on the actual coach. So what input could these players actually provide beyond what they provided in December?
You could argue the player committee could have been involved in the actual interviews but something tells me that players wouldn't want to come back to Green Bay to interview a coach during their offseason. Rodgers is impossible to get ahold of after the season as it is.
ahhhh, I don't know/think thats accurate, Rodgers is hard to get a hold of when Rodgers doesn't want to be gotten a hold of, when he wants to be access able I bet he answers the call.
and I wouldn't call in the whole 9 players, Rodgers is by and large the most important person of all of those 9, he is the one that will form the closest bond with the new coach.
I think there is a point when to many voices clouds the picture, but adding Rodgers should be a key addition, In his shoes I would have felt snubbed too
As expected, the discussion moved away from if Aaron was consulted to the level of consultation wasn't enough
Yep. Gotta move the goalpost instead of just admitting fault when saying Aaron Rodgers was NEVER consulted.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
If Aaron was willing, I would have scheduled a good 30 minutes for him to sit in with each candidate, Gute and Murphy and Russ, and basically let the coach try to sell his offensive scheme and plane, let Aaron ask a few questions.
I mean the QB coach relationship is super important as we learned, and we were locked into that QB for basically the length of the coaches contract, give or take. I just would have valued his opinion. Certainly not to the extent of who do you want, but I’d want to get someone where Aaron would feel indebted to work with.
I do think Lafleur turned out to be a good hire. So everyone involved should be pretty happy. But yes, what you are suggesting would be pretty normal for when an org is making a coaching change while having a HOF Qb I would guess.
In addition, it is probably what Rodgers desired and would he had in mind when he talked about being consulted.
I def think the 9 man pow wow was just a courtesy to those guys and didn’t have much impact. They could have all said 9 different things.
LaCoach turned out to be a good hire?! What accomplishments exist that prove that LaCoach was a good hire. All I've seen so far is a YES man who very professionally and eloquently spews the obvious. His coaching and play calling has been average.
Boom. Aaron Rodgers was consulted, so we can hopefully get away from that argument. Thank you!
As expected, the discussion moved away from if Aaron was consulted to the level of consultation wasn't enough
my original argument was more about a personal sit down or even a phone call with the prospective coaching candidates.
thats why I didn't respond to 23, why waste my breath, asking players what traits they want in a new coach is so superficial, those 9 consulted including the QB could have jotted that stuff on a piece of paper for gosh sakes, I bet you could have just run one response through a copier and all 9 would have been close to identical
Is that what you consider a consultation when hiring?
If Aaron was willing, I would have scheduled a good 30 minutes for him to sit in with each candidate, Gute and Murphy and Russ, and basically let the coach try to sell his offensive scheme and plane, let Aaron ask a few questions.
I mean the QB coach relationship is super important as we learned, and we were locked into that QB for basically the length of the coaches contract, give or take. I just would have valued his opinion. Certainly not to the extent of who do you want, but I’d want to get someone where Aaron would feel indebted to work with.
I do think Lafleur turned out to be a good hire. So everyone involved should be pretty happy. But yes, what you are suggesting would be pretty normal for when an org is making a coaching change while having a HOF Qb I would guess.
In addition, it is probably what Rodgers desired and would he had in mind when he talked about being consulted.
I def think the 9 man pow wow was just a courtesy to those guys and didn’t have much impact. They could have all said 9 different things.
LaCoach turned out to be a good hire?! What accomplishments exist that prove that LaCoach was a good hire. All I've seen so far is a YES man who very professionally and eloquently spews the obvious. His coaching and play calling has been average.
His tenure is still very much to be determined.
But objectively, yes, 3 division titles and two NFC championship appearances is considered a good start.
Boom. Aaron Rodgers was consulted, so we can hopefully get away from that argument. Thank you!
As expected, the discussion moved away from if Aaron was consulted to the level of consultation wasn't enough
my original argument was more about a personal sit down or even a phone call with the prospective coaching candidates.
thats why I didn't respond to 23, why waste my breath, asking players what traits they want in a new coach is so superficial, those 9 consulted including the QB could have jotted that stuff on a piece of paper for gosh sakes, I bet you could have just run one response through a copier and all 9 would have been close to identical
Is that what you consider a consultation when hiring?
There are some learning disabilities that don’t allow someone to recognize a grey area. Everything is black and white. We might be dealing with that here. One can see that yes, Murphy checked the box with a weak 9 man intro pow wow on personality traits, but also obvious to see rodgers expected much more and expected an individual consultation.
Both can be true. But as you said, best not to argue with those incapable of seeing nuance.
If Aaron was willing, I would have scheduled a good 30 minutes for him to sit in with each candidate, Gute and Murphy and Russ, and basically let the coach try to sell his offensive scheme and plane, let Aaron ask a few questions.
I mean the QB coach relationship is super important as we learned, and we were locked into that QB for basically the length of the coaches contract, give or take. I just would have valued his opinion. Certainly not to the extent of who do you want, but I’d want to get someone where Aaron would feel indebted to work with.
I do think Lafleur turned out to be a good hire. So everyone involved should be pretty happy. But yes, what you are suggesting would be pretty normal for when an org is making a coaching change while having a HOF Qb I would guess.
In addition, it is probably what Rodgers desired and would he had in mind when he talked about being consulted.
I def think the 9 man pow wow was just a courtesy to those guys and didn’t have much impact. They could have all said 9 different things.
LaCoach turned out to be a good hire?! What accomplishments exist that prove that LaCoach was a good hire. All I've seen so far is a YES man who very professionally and eloquently spews the obvious. His coaching and play calling has been average.
come on Ringo, your not even being close to fair with Lafleur, yes he had a very good QB, yes he had a very good WR and RB, he's dealt with a lot of injury's, specially OL and on defense, he's had 4 season of befuddlement on defense actually, and 3 seasons of some of the worst ST's in the league, and has become the 5th winningest coach in franchise history, would you rather go back to the Mike Sherman product? or how about the fan fav Dandy Devine?
There are some learning disabilities that don’t allow someone to recognize a grey area.
Ya, you are not going to get away with saying someone might have a disability. That's wrong on all levels. That was not warranted at all so don't try and play the righteous card.
Now, this was specifically said:
that was apparent when he hired Lafleur never even consulting Rodgers,
This has been proven to just not be true, so the goalposts are being moved to now include the quality of the consultation.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
As expected, the discussion moved away from if Aaron was consulted to the level of consultation wasn't enough
my original argument was more about a personal sit down or even a phone call with the prospective coaching candidates.
thats why I didn't respond to 23, why waste my breath, asking players what traits they want in a new coach is so superficial, those 9 consulted including the QB could have jotted that stuff on a piece of paper for gosh sakes, I bet you could have just run one response through a copier and all 9 would have been close to identical
Is that what you consider a consultation when hiring?
There are some learning disabilities that don’t allow someone to recognize a grey area. Everything is black and white. We might be dealing with that here. One can see that yes, Murphy checked the box with a weak 9 man intro pow wow on personality traits, but also obvious to see rodgers expected much more and expected an individual consultation.
Both can be true. But as you said, best not to argue with those incapable of seeing nuance.
I just think allowing the person who's relationship with someone as important as the HC maters so much for team success, it would have been a good start to them bonding and also tightening that players relationship to himself, loyalty is built upon respect, and Guty and Murphy's neglect with that insured the rocky road since with Rodgers.
There are some learning disabilities that don’t allow someone to recognize a grey area.
Ya, you are not going to get away with saying someone might have a disability. That's wrong on all levels. That was not warranted at all so don't try and play the righteous card.
Now, this was specifically said:
that was apparent when he hired Lafleur never even consulting Rodgers,
This has been proven to just not be true, so the goalposts are being moved to now include the quality of the consultation.
oh please spare us all your PC garble 23, how often have you and others here insulted me?
and asking a bunch of players what traits there looking for is not even close to a actual consultation with a coach, which you know damn well is what I was referring to
quit playing word games
Last edited by Yoop on 03 Jun 2023 11:19, edited 1 time in total.
or how about the fan fav Dandy Devine? 