Do we have a bad, good, or great roster in 2023?

[Pckfn23]

We'll see won't we.

I guess what are the expectations that we can look for that would signify LaFleur has turned a corner or not?

[lupedafiasco]

I think it’s a decent roster. I truly don’t believe it’s a bottom 10 type of team with the amount of star power still here. I think ultimately the lack of experience will hurt this team in many games. Especially those close games where we need to play perfect at the end. I can see quite a bit of rookie and sophomore mistakes.

Having an inexcusable $60M in dead cap doesn’t help. This is definitely a red shirt year for the team to come back strong next season.

[AmishMafia]

Lots of good thoughts in this thread. My 0.02?

I expect Van Ness to get on the field early. Recall the first offensive play last year, the bomb to Watson. Catch them off guard before they realize how fast he is. Same for LVN and Fields is going to find out. The Luke Ness monster gets 1.5 sacks in the first game.

The biggest key to this season is Berry. I feel he was doing better coaching towards the end of last season than previously. I still don't have much confidence in him, but I see a reason for cautious optimism.

I dont expect Love to have a huge year number wise. I am expecting the focus to be more on moving the chains and letting the offense rely on Jones and Dillon. A higher % of short and mid passes. Just not asking Love to win games by big plays. I am in the camp that AR was not asked to win games by himself, he just audibles to make it so. Love will play within the offense and be successful. Much more of a ball controll offense - especially until Love feels more comfortable in a year or 2.

It should be a very fun season. I think we will surprise a lot of teams. I think Love will be a boost to this offense in some ways and it will perform better this coming season.

So, to answer the OP, the Packers have a great roster talent wise - but don't have enough experience to be as successful. Can the coaching staff get them up to speed quickly enough for this season? Hope so.

[Yoop]

As an adjunct to the passing game you're going to have a QB who will take off if he gets the chance. Favre's first 2 years he ran for 33 first downs. AR ran for 45 first downs in his first 2 starting years. I expect Love to run and move some chains putting the same types of stress on the D that helped make our HOF QBs so dangerous before they figured everything out.

sure but his stats don't lie, Rodgers had 4000 passing yrds and 200 yrds rushing, and believe me, like you I've watched a lot of QB's over the years, specially Favre and Rodgers, and imo Love is more ready to kick butt then either of those two, and his receiver room while young have far more GOD given talent, seriously I think our passing performance this season is going to surprise many.

Love has not done anything to show he is more ready to kick butt than Rodgers was at this point in his career. Love has about 2 preseason games and 1 Eagles quarter of great production. He also has an okay 2nd half of football vs Detroit and pretty much everything else is garbage time fodder or clearly the game being too big for him.

What a flip from 6 months ago when you went on and on about how good Rodgers was in 2005 and 2006. And you call me a homer?

As for potential...yes. Love does have potential. His ball gets from point A to point B effortlessly and really quickly. He also plays within in the play and I really, really miss and like that.

I've never said that Rodgers was anything in 05 or 06 you've got me mixed up with someone else.

if you'd bother to look at how the Sanders defense declined in 08, which forced the Sanders firing, thats the biggest reason for the win/loss record in Rodgers first season.

I have to believe that Lafleur extracted Barry's head from his lower unit, and with the firing of Gray this defense will be right tracked, Love doesn't have to be other worldly to throw for 4000 yrds, or our running game to produce at least 1500 to 2000 yrds.

why people are taking such a low conservative approach to estimating this seasons outcome obviously are not considering the real reason for the season record in 08, I expect this season to far exceed that, I see no reason not to.

[go pak go]

sure but his stats don't lie, Rodgers had 4000 passing yrds and 200 yrds rushing, and believe me, like you I've watched a lot of QB's over the years, specially Favre and Rodgers, and imo Love is more ready to kick butt then either of those two, and his receiver room while young have far more GOD given talent, seriously I think our passing performance this season is going to surprise many.

Love has not done anything to show he is more ready to kick butt than Rodgers was at this point in his career. Love has about 2 preseason games and 1 Eagles quarter of great production. He also has an okay 2nd half of football vs Detroit and pretty much everything else is garbage time fodder or clearly the game being too big for him.

What a flip from 6 months ago when you went on and on about how good Rodgers was in 2005 and 2006. And you call me a homer?

As for potential...yes. Love does have potential. His ball gets from point A to point B effortlessly and really quickly. He also plays within in the play and I really, really miss and like that.

I've never said that Rodgers was anything in 05 or 06 you've got me mixed up with someone else.

if you'd bother to look at how the Sanders defense declined in 08, which forced the Sanders firing, thats the biggest reason for the win/loss record in Rodgers first season.

I have to believe that Lafleur extracted Barry's head from his lower unit, and with the firing of Gray this defense will be right tracked, Love doesn't have to be other worldly to throw for 4000 yrds, or our running game to produce at least 1500 to 2000 yrds.

why people are taking such a low conservative approach to estimating this seasons outcome obviously are not considering the real reason for the season record in 08, I expect this season to far exceed that, I see no reason not to.

My best guess is total offense will push 6,000 yards. 5,500 total yards would be disappointing unless there are explainable reasons for the lower production.

Of that I think the passing offense could be anywhere from 3,800 to 4,200 yards and the running game to be anywhere from 2,200 to 2,500 yards.

I think this can be a top 10 offense which is what the numbers above would put us at with a 17 game schedule. Obviously the final numbers will be sway with how the overall league does in terms of production and how the offense/defense comes up league wide with rules, etc.

[Yoop]

Love has not done anything to show he is more ready to kick butt than Rodgers was at this point in his career. Love has about 2 preseason games and 1 Eagles quarter of great production. He also has an okay 2nd half of football vs Detroit and pretty much everything else is garbage time fodder or clearly the game being too big for him.

What a flip from 6 months ago when you went on and on about how good Rodgers was in 2005 and 2006. And you call me a homer?

As for potential...yes. Love does have potential. His ball gets from point A to point B effortlessly and really quickly. He also plays within in the play and I really, really miss and like that.

I've never said that Rodgers was anything in 05 or 06 you've got me mixed up with someone else.

if you'd bother to look at how the Sanders defense declined in 08, which forced the Sanders firing, thats the biggest reason for the win/loss record in Rodgers first season.

I have to believe that Lafleur extracted Barry's head from his lower unit, and with the firing of Gray this defense will be right tracked, Love doesn't have to be other worldly to throw for 4000 yrds, or our running game to produce at least 1500 to 2000 yrds.

why people are taking such a low conservative approach to estimating this seasons outcome obviously are not considering the real reason for the season record in 08, I expect this season to far exceed that, I see no reason not to.

My best guess is total offense will push 6,000 yards. 5,500 total yards would be disappointing unless there are explainable reasons for the lower production.

Of that I think the passing offense could be anywhere from 3,800 to 4,200 yards and the running game to be anywhere from 2,200 to 2,500 yards.

I think this can be a top 10 offense which is what the numbers above would put us at with a 17 game schedule. Obviously the final numbers will be sway with how the overall league does in terms of production and how the offense/defense comes up league wide with rules, etc.

OK but your raising run production I think to offset lower pass production, which I find soooo lame, it's as though you expect either these young receivers not to produce to what I think there capable of, and the same with Love.

my comments have been built on my personal feelings, yours seem to come off some spread sheet, now your adding in league standings, again my original claim was a conservative estimate, 5500 yards plus, and yards don't exactly predict game outcomes, so we need to improve scoring, so if we win a lot of games and only produce 5500 yards doing so I wont be disappointed.

last years failures in that regard fall back on blocking and our raw receivers, which 3 will be second season players, and our OL will have more stability, 2nd lowest point production in Rodgers Packer career last season, and while he can be blamed for a portion of that, we sucked in the red zone, and that wasn't all his fault.

hey I looked it up so don't mess with me

[Cdragon]

Why can't he believe run production will rise. We've got 2 proven runners, the OL is far more intact and Love most likely will be less inclined to swap out the play unless it is the obvious call. Plus Love will take off more than AR would have at this point in his career, adding a few more ground yards. It doesn't depend on what the WRs do or don't do.

[Drj820]

The threat of Rodgers arm helped the run game a lot. We are about to see a whole lot of stacking the box until Love can prove he can hit open guys and punish defenses for stacking the boxes. Whether he shows he can do that or not will determine the fate of the 2023 run game vs years past.

[Yoop]

Why can't he believe run production will rise. We've got 2 proven runners, the OL is far more intact and Love most likely will be less inclined to swap out the play unless it is the obvious call. Plus Love will take off more than AR would have at this point in his career, adding a few more ground yards. It doesn't depend on what the WRs do or don't do.

I didn't say it wouldn't, or tell him what to think, lafleur ran it 44.7 % of the time last year, 42.9% in 021, 45.9% in 2020 and 41.9 in 019, 6 teams ran more then they passed last year, so sure we could see a increase, IMO though I don't expect a huge increase of run to pass ratio, sure a young Love will probably scramble more, but is that what we really want? if ya allow the QB to run when his first two reads are covered how will he learn to have patience and navigate the pocket reading the whole route progression?

I want a passing QB, we invested heavily in receivers so that Love would have players to help him succeed as a passer, we should embrace that, and leave the running to Jones and Dillon etc., imo a 45% run to 55% pass is a great ratio

[packman114]

I think this year will seem more like a West Coast offense because Love will check down to the backs faster/more often than A-Rod did the last few years. May not have a high run % but I expect the touches for Jones, Dillon, & Deguara to be higher.

I watched the Steelers Super Bowl game again last night on NFL Network and I'm not sure what the stats would prove but boy did it seem like we ran a lot of crossing routes and middle of the field pass plays. And it wasn't the TEs as much as it was Nelson, Driver and Jennings. I really want to see that part of the game come back. Send Musgrave up the seam and hit the WRs crossing underneath. Especially if the opposing defenses are stacked against the run.

[TheSkeptic]

The threat of Rodgers arm helped the run game a lot. We are about to see a whole lot of stacking the box until Love can prove he can hit open guys and punish defenses for stacking the boxes. Whether he shows he can do that or not will determine the fate of the 2023 run game vs years past.

The threat of Watson's YAC will prevent defenses from stacking the box.

[Cdragon]

I think this year will seem more like a West Coast offense because Love will check down to the backs faster/more often than A-Rod did the last few years. May not have a high run % but I expect the touches for Jones, Dillon, & Deguara to be higher.

I watched the Steelers Super Bowl game again last night on NFL Network and I'm not sure what the stats would prove but boy did it seem like we ran a lot of crossing routes and middle of the field pass plays. And it wasn't the TEs as much as it was Nelson, Driver and Jennings. I really want to see that part of the game come back. Send Musgrave up the seam and hit the WRs crossing underneath. Especially if the opposing defenses are stacked against the run.

I think crossing routes pretty much went out the window when Cobb had his leg taken off in 2013.

[Cdragon]

Why can't he believe run production will rise. We've got 2 proven runners, the OL is far more intact and Love most likely will be less inclined to swap out the play unless it is the obvious call. Plus Love will take off more than AR would have at this point in his career, adding a few more ground yards. It doesn't depend on what the WRs do or don't do.

I didn't say it wouldn't, or tell him what to think, lafleur ran it 44.7 % of the time last year, 42.9% in 021, 45.9% in 2020 and 41.9 in 019, 6 teams ran more then they passed last year, so sure we could see a increase, IMO though I don't expect a huge increase of run to pass ratio, sure a young Love will probably scramble more, but is that what we really want? if ya allow the QB to run when his first two reads are covered how will he learn to have patience and navigate the pocket reading the whole route progression?

I want a passing QB, we invested heavily in receivers so that Love would have players to help him succeed as a passer, we should embrace that, and leave the running to Jones and Dillon etc., imo a 45% run to 55% pass is a great ratio

I want a QB who makes the right decision. I don't want him to be AR I want him to be Love. If he takes off five times in one game and not at all all in another that's fine as long as it was a good choice. I believe his college rap was not making the best decision. So I don't want him hanging around till he's sacked or just launching it into tight coverage to get rid of it. Running early in a career is normal and it also stresses the D. I'm not expecting Bobby Douglas but I don't want him to think he can play bullfighter like AR and dance out of harms way for 10 seconds.

[Yoop]

Why can't he believe run production will rise. We've got 2 proven runners, the OL is far more intact and Love most likely will be less inclined to swap out the play unless it is the obvious call. Plus Love will take off more than AR would have at this point in his career, adding a few more ground yards. It doesn't depend on what the WRs do or don't do.

I didn't say it wouldn't, or tell him what to think, lafleur ran it 44.7 % of the time last year, 42.9% in 021, 45.9% in 2020 and 41.9 in 019, 6 teams ran more then they passed last year, so sure we could see a increase, IMO though I don't expect a huge increase of run to pass ratio, sure a young Love will probably scramble more, but is that what we really want? if ya allow the QB to run when his first two reads are covered how will he learn to have patience and navigate the pocket reading the whole route progression?

I want a passing QB, we invested heavily in receivers so that Love would have players to help him succeed as a passer, we should embrace that, and leave the running to Jones and Dillon etc., imo a 45% run to 55% pass is a great ratio

I want a QB who makes the right decision. I don't want him to be AR I want him to be Love. If he takes off five times in one game and not at all all in another that's fine as long as it was a good choice. I believe his college rap was not making the best decision. So I don't want him hanging around till he's sacked or just launching it into tight coverage to get rid of it. Running early in a career is normal and it also stresses the D. I'm not expecting Bobby Douglas but I don't want him to think he can play bullfighter like AR and dance out of harms way for 10 seconds.

well you wont get a young QB to develop decision making skills if ya allow him to run at the first sign of pressure, I think we want the same thing CD, thing is Rodgers had to learn how to dance in the pocket, thats a learned skill, recognizing where the pressure will come from and alluding it within a pocket is valuable, emulating Rodgers is the greatest thing we could hope for

we saw Love do that pretty well last year, I only saw a couple passes that he hurried, imo he made good decisions on most pass attempts, heck he scrambled when protection broke down and threw a perfect pass to Watson on a long TD catch and run, and I think one foot was off the ground, so like Rodgers his tech wasn't great when he let the ball go.

Love has groomed under Rodgers for 3 years, he will be more like Rodgers then he'll be like his old college self, wouldn't you agree?

[Yoop]

The threat of Rodgers arm helped the run game a lot. We are about to see a whole lot of stacking the box until Love can prove he can hit open guys and punish defenses for stacking the boxes. Whether he shows he can do that or not will determine the fate of the 2023 run game vs years past.

The threat of Watson's YAC will prevent defenses from stacking the box.

only if that works, and if it does why run more then normal, passing the ball is the quickest way from point A to point B ( B being the EZ)

all this talk of running to some how shield Love is nauseating, sure we may run more early season to settle Love in, but I doubt that last long, I still think we'll have close to the same balance we had the first 4 years under Lafleur

[Pckfn23]

all this talk of running to some how shield Love

Not what is being talked about.

We have a good set of RBs with one of the best in the game and young QBs tend to run more, plus a QB who will probably play more within the offense and thus stick with called runs. We very well may run more this year that in years past under Lafleur and it will have little to do with shielding Love. The only caveat here would be if we are consistently down by a good margin, which would mean bad things are happening.

[Labrev]

Establish the run!!!!

[go pak go]

I'm not calling for a big jump in the attention to the running game.

I called for 2,200 to 2,500 yards in rushing. We rushed for 2,100 yards in 2022 and that is with Watson only playing roughly half the games. The option before Watson was watching Allen Lazard attemp the Wide Receiver end arounds.

Between Jones, Dillon, Love, Watson, Nixon and HB3, I don't think rushing for 2,200 yards is a big leap at all. It would still likely put us around 10th in the league.

The major caveat to all of this is the potential decline in tight end blocking ability.

[Crazylegs Starks]

Somewhat related, and I've said this before, last preseason LaFleur had Love run some pretty effective read-option plays. It's not insane to think we could see more of that.

[Scott4Pack]

Why can't he believe run production will rise. We've got 2 proven runners, the OL is far more intact and Love most likely will be less inclined to swap out the play unless it is the obvious call. Plus Love will take off more than AR would have at this point in his career, adding a few more ground yards. It doesn't depend on what the WRs do or don't do.

There’s only one answer to your question (if the run production will rise) that I know of. That is, the defenses will squat on our run game until Love proves he can be at least a modestly successful passer and the passing game succeeds.