Do we have a bad, good, or great roster in 2023?
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I'm good with designed QB runs as long as Love knows to slide each and every time.
come on, it's Mumbo JumboNCF wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 09:45The biggest and most simplistic distinctions:Pckfn23 wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 08:58There are significant differences as I explained. RPO is run, pass option. Read Option is a run play. Play action is only a pass play with a fake hand off. Play action is not what we are talking about at all.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 08:38
I don't get this read option, why are you trying to confuse us? we do a lot of play action, is that what you refer to as read option, play action does everything you just described, including RPO.
people reinvent terminology all the time, imo it's all basically the same &%$@
I am not trying to confuse, I am trying to educate. This is an explanation of the terminology that has been around for many decades.
Play-action = Called Pass Play
Read Option = Called Run Play
RPO = QB Determines Run or Pass based on pre-snap read
all 3 are option plays, sure Read option is most often referred to as a QB run play, or designed QB run, but RPO ( run pass option) even spells out that it is a option play, and play action encompasses both the option to pass or hand it to the RB.
most of this stuff to me is about blocking assignments anyway. again I don't see Lafleur turning Love into a running QB, so this stuff imho isn't even going to happen, enjoy your fantasies
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Mumbo Jumbo maybe, but it refers to fairly different aspects of an offense.
Play action is NOT an option play.all 3 are option plays,
sure Read option is most often referred to as a QB run play, or designed QB run,
Read option is not most often referred to as a QB run play. It is an option play where both the QB or RB gets the carry depending on what the read key does.
Yes, it without a doubt is an option play.but RPO ( run pass option) even spells out that it is a option play, and
Incorrect. Play action does not have a designed run/option component.play action encompasses both the option to pass or hand it to the RB.
Option is about much more than that because you do not have to block a player. That is why it can be so effective.most of this stuff to me is about blocking assignments anyway.
This is not about turning Love in a running QB and no one has said they want to do that. This was brought up because these may be effective play used a handful of times a game because Love is younger and more athletic at this stage.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Brandon these are people that have made a living out of making up complicated terminology concerning football, don't take this wrong I read all this stuff too, but we've been doing what basically is walling of defenders since the days of Vince Lombardi with zone blocking schemes and the blocking assignments tend to get tagged with differing names, inside and outside zone assignments have hardly changed over the years, just the names attached to them have.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 09:10Here are some references:
Read Option https://bleacherreport.com/articles/207 ... ead-option
RPO https://www.viqtorysports.com/rpo-footb ... to-run-it/
Play Action https://thestadiumreviews.com/blogs/inf ... -football/
and Naturally someone will have a explanation concerning every deviance of the basic concept
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Incorrect, these are different concepts, not just deviations of basic concepts, even more different than inside to outside zone runs and the difference between zone block and man block. These are option plays, not just walling off defenders. A defender is the read key in these plays and they do not have to be blocked. In the case of read option the QB can read the 5 technique. If he closes down the line the QB keeps it and runs right where the 5tech vacated. If he doesn't the QB gives to the RB. In the case of RPO the QB keys the safety. If the safety is playing downhill and/or is up near the line, the QB can hit the slant right behind him. If not, the QB gives to the RB. So... Not the same as just walling off defenders or creating gaps.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 11:24Brandon these are people that have made a living out of making up complicated terminology concerning football, don't take this wrong I read all this stuff too, but we've been doing what basically is walling of defenders since the days of Vince Lombardi with zone blocking schemes and the blocking assignments tend to get tagged with differing names, inside and outside zone assignments have hardly changed over the years, just the names attached to them have.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 09:10Here are some references:
Read Option https://bleacherreport.com/articles/207 ... ead-option
RPO https://www.viqtorysports.com/rpo-footb ... to-run-it/
Play Action https://thestadiumreviews.com/blogs/inf ... -football/
and Naturally someone will have a explanation concerning every deviance of the basic concept
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
It sure can be, you don't know that some of the PA didn't end up as a run, which I believe it did, if ya pass often enough from a run formation it ceases to be affective, I don't care how these yokels describe how it's suppose to work, I have eyes and see how it actually plays out, play action is the predecessor to RPO and read option, so in essence it's all play action.
again, the first thing a QB does breaking the huddle is look at defense alignments and how they change as he starts his cadence, the reason Rodgers runs the clock down is to wait for there final adjustments, and that is when he calls out the blocking adjustments for the line, typically thats the last word he says prior to hike.
I didn't look up our % of play action used but I'd guess it's at least 50% of the offensive plays
It can't be. He does know. Just because you believe doesn't make it so. If, as you say, it ended up as a run, it is an RPO and not play action. This is the very definition of these terms. Not nitpicking, just the scenario you are describing is an RPO even if the QB turns his back to the defense. A play action is 100% a called pass and an executed pass, always.
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thanks for the education that 99.9 % of fans will never even notice, and defense do so much minuet adjustment you wouldn't even notice what your trying to describe either, what a defense does best these days is create confusion, so my point is that nothing is a absolute.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 11:32Incorrect, these are different concepts, not just deviations of basic concepts, even more different than inside to outside zone runs and the difference between zone block and man block. These are option plays, not just walling off defenders. A defender is the read key in these plays and they do not have to be blocked. In the case of read option the QB can read the 5 technique. If he closes down the line the QB keeps it and runs right where the 5tech vacated. If he doesn't the QB gives to the RB. In the case of RPO the QB keys the safety. If the safety is playing downhill and/or is up near the line, the QB can hit the slant right behind him. If not, the QB gives to the RB. So... Not the same as just walling off defenders or creating gaps.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 11:24Brandon these are people that have made a living out of making up complicated terminology concerning football, don't take this wrong I read all this stuff too, but we've been doing what basically is walling of defenders since the days of Vince Lombardi with zone blocking schemes and the blocking assignments tend to get tagged with differing names, inside and outside zone assignments have hardly changed over the years, just the names attached to them have.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 09:10Here are some references:
Read Option https://bleacherreport.com/articles/207 ... ead-option
RPO https://www.viqtorysports.com/rpo-footb ... to-run-it/
Play Action https://thestadiumreviews.com/blogs/inf ... -football/
and Naturally someone will have a explanation concerning every deviance of the basic concept
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These are absolutes. They are also easy to see in game, if one knows what to look for. For the RPO and read option there is a mesh where the QB can keep it or give it to the RB. Play action, there is not a mesh as it is ALWAYS a pass. So as NCF pointed out accurately, we do know.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 11:59
thanks for the education that 99.9 % of fans will never even notice, and defense do so much minuet adjustment you wouldn't even notice what your trying to describe either, what a defense does best these days is create confusion, so my point is that nothing is a absolute.
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 29 Jun 2023 12:05, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
what??????? so now according to you what has always been termed a play action option becomes a RPO if he hands the ball to the RB???? someone gave it that title, and it's simply a terminology deviant of basic play action, Vince Lombardi would laugh you right out of the buildingNCF wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 11:47It can't be. He does know. Just because you believe doesn't make it so. If, as you say, it ended up as a run, it is an RPO and not play action. This is the very definition of these terms. Not nitpicking, just the scenario you are describing is an RPO even if the QB turns his back to the defense. A play action is 100% a called pass and an executed pass, always.
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There is no such thing as a play action option.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:05what??????? so now according to you what has always been termed a play action option becomes a RPO if he hands the ball to the RB???? someone gave it that title, and it's simply a terminology deviant of basic play action, Vince Lombardi would laugh you right out of the buildingNCF wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 11:47It can't be. He does know. Just because you believe doesn't make it so. If, as you say, it ended up as a run, it is an RPO and not play action. This is the very definition of these terms. Not nitpicking, just the scenario you are describing is an RPO even if the QB turns his back to the defense. A play action is 100% a called pass and an executed pass, always.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
no you don't, and if you think your right then list em this coming seasonPckfn23 wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:04These are absolutes. They are also easy to see in game, if one knows what to look for. For the RPO and read option there is a mesh where the QB can keep it or give it to the RB. Play action, there is not a mesh as it is ALWAYS a pass. So as NCF pointed out accurately, we do know.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 11:59
thanks for the education that 99.9 % of fans will never even notice, and defense do so much minuet adjustment you wouldn't even notice what your trying to describe either, what a defense does best these days is create confusion, so my point is that nothing is a absolute.
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I absolutely do and I explained how you can determine it. I can point them out from last season as well. Love did it a few times.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:06no you don't, and if you think your right then list em this coming seasonPckfn23 wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:04These are absolutes. They are also easy to see in game, if one knows what to look for. For the RPO and read option there is a mesh where the QB can keep it or give it to the RB. Play action, there is not a mesh as it is ALWAYS a pass. So as NCF pointed out accurately, we do know.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 11:59
thanks for the education that 99.9 % of fans will never even notice, and defense do so much minuet adjustment you wouldn't even notice what your trying to describe either, what a defense does best these days is create confusion, so my point is that nothing is a absolute.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
always has been, RPO didn't even become a NFL term till about 12 years ago, and again has to do with blocking adjustments, strong side blocking assignments.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:06There is no such thing as a play action option.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:05what??????? so now according to you what has always been termed a play action option becomes a RPO if he hands the ball to the RB???? someone gave it that title, and it's simply a terminology deviant of basic play action, Vince Lombardi would laugh you right out of the buildingNCF wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 11:47
It can't be. He does know. Just because you believe doesn't make it so. If, as you say, it ended up as a run, it is an RPO and not play action. This is the very definition of these terms. Not nitpicking, just the scenario you are describing is an RPO even if the QB turns his back to the defense. A play action is 100% a called pass and an executed pass, always.
prior to RPO I guess we just passed all the time in pass formations and ran in run formations, mumbo Jumbo.
if so do it this coming season, again the way DE's and OLB's move and safety's slide up to the LOS I think it's near impossible to know exactly what is happening, and just because you read a book doesn't mean you can deceiver everything you see.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:10I absolutely do and I explained how you can determine it. I can point them out from last season as well. Love did it a few times.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:06no you don't, and if you think your right then list em this coming seasonPckfn23 wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:04
These are absolutes. They are also easy to see in game, if one knows what to look for. For the RPO and read option there is a mesh where the QB can keep it or give it to the RB. Play action, there is not a mesh as it is ALWAYS a pass. So as NCF pointed out accurately, we do know.
for crip sacks Bart Starr did PA and they weren't all pass plays, QB's have always had the option of changing the plays and no one called it RPO or read option
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Again, no, play action option is not real. RPO doesn't have to do with blocking schemes, it has to do with the option of passing or giving to the RB for a run. I would suggest reading up on what ai brought to explain the RPO.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:14always has been, RPO didn't even become a NFL term till about 12 years ago, and again has to do with blocking adjustments, strong side blocking assignments.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:06There is no such thing as a play action option.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:05
what??????? so now according to you what has always been termed a play action option becomes a RPO if he hands the ball to the RB???? someone gave it that title, and it's simply a terminology deviant of basic play action, Vince Lombardi would laugh you right out of the building
prior to RPO I guess we just passed all the time in pass formations and ran in run formations, mumbo Jumbo.
Also it is not about formations. Formations have little to do with these options plays as they can be run out of most formations.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
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That is why these are post snap reads. They can move all they want, but their play after the snap determines the give or keep.Yoop wrote: ↑29 Jun 2023 12:21if so do it this coming season, again the way DE's and OLB's move and safety's slide up to the LOS I think it's near impossible to know exactly what is happening, and just because you read a book doesn't mean you can deceiver everything you see.
for crip sacks Bart Starr did PA and they weren't all pass plays, QB's have always had the option of changing the plays and no one called it RPO or read option
Also, this isn't changing the play as in an audible. That is entirely different and not related to this discussion.
Bart Starr NEVER ran a play action and it was a designed run. No QB has ever done so.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
The sky is blue.
[mention]Yoop[/mention]: $%@# that!! You guys are dumb.
[mention]Yoop[/mention]: $%@# that!! You guys are dumb.
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Please take a minute to read this on the RPO: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-fa ... tion-guide
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
ahhh, my sky is not blue, it's hazy and smells like smoke, and is hard to breath
No, you guys just like to complicate stuff, it makes you sound smart
now he's saying these are all decided or designated plays, if a QB switches from a pass to a run or vice versa he is optioning out (audibling ) and Bart Starr did that plenty