Do we have a bad, good, or great roster in 2023?

[Cdragon]

There is no option to hand off the ball on PA so it is not an option play. The RB is not expecting the ball and bad things will happen if you try to force it to him. The RB is looking at who he might have to block and where he might skate to if he releases as an outlet. On a great fake he gets tackled. Or he can become part of the blocking scheme, or he can chip a defender and get out into the pattern.

After the fake then all the ordinary things that can happen on a pass play will happen. Just cause a QB decides at any point after the fake to throw the ball or run for his life doesn't make it an option play.

[TheSkeptic]

There is no option to hand off the ball on PA so it is not an option play. The RB is not expecting the ball and bad things will happen if you try to force it to him. The RB is looking at who he might have to block and where he might skate to if he releases as an outlet. On a great fake he gets tackled. Or he can become part of the blocking scheme, or he can chip a defender and get out into the pattern.

After the fake then all the ordinary things that can happen on a pass play will happen. Just cause a QB decides at any point after the fake to throw the ball or run for his life doesn't make it an option play.

Excellent explanation. If anyone is still confused after this, they are truly in a fog.

Looking forward to more play action with Love at QB.

[Yoop]

There is no option to hand off the ball on PA so it is not an option play. The RB is not expecting the ball and bad things will happen if you try to force it to him. The RB is looking at who he might have to block and where he might skate to if he releases as an outlet. On a great fake he gets tackled. Or he can become part of the blocking scheme, or he can chip a defender and get out into the pattern.

After the fake then all the ordinary things that can happen on a pass play will happen. Just cause a QB decides at any point after the fake to throw the ball or run for his life doesn't make it an option play.

I get all this, my point is this, once the QB does the fake handoff, and finds no one open he has the option to do something else, and all his options will be discussed either in the huddle or pre snap, so while a play action pass may be the called play, I have my doubts that all become a forward pass, I didn't just fall off of some packer bandwagon last night, I know all plays or schemes have names, they just don't always happen as there called.

and to the average fan and most of us we don't always no what actually was called all the time, as collinsworth said/or guessed, most of the time when Philly is in the gun it is a RPO play, my point is that he should have clarified that with sometimes they pass, because they do.

[Pckfn23]

We aren't talking about scrambles or improvs, never have been. Scrambles, draws, RPOs, play action, and read option plays are all fairly easy to differentiate. There are elements of each that are easy to spot.

We are talking about called plays and the more specifically the called plays that are RPOs or Read Options. Designed plays was the OP:

I don't mind a QB tucking it and running a few times per game but I'm not a fan of designing read option plays.

Yes with RPO it is sometimes a pass, it is literally in the name Run Pass Option.

[Backthepack4ever]

I think we have a good roster.

The D has playmakers/real talent at all levels
Gary/Clark
Campbell was an all pro but had a down year
Jaire

If others can take a step up this D should be top 5
Safety is a concern but if they can be average that's good enough

O had question marks but we have seen flashes from Watson. He has star potential.
The TEs have elite traits let's hope on a few years they can play to those levels. The speed at the position should press defenses right away
Top 3 backfield and I'm excited about the 3rd RB battle.
OL is fine.
QB is still a mystery

The O is young fast and will grow together. I like the fact all these guys will find an identity together. Even ML will look to run his system without AR. This in not a knock but sometimes change is good and throwing all these kids in the deep end together could be something special.

The roster is good with a chance to be great in the near future

[Labrev]

my point is this, once the QB does the fake handoff, and finds no one open he has the option to do something else, and all his options will be discussed either in the huddle or pre snap,

If he does the fake handoff, it's too late to discuss his options pre-snap, because the ball has already been snapped by the time he does the fake handoff and tries to find someone open. A fake handoff is a post-snap action, so a QB can't possibly make pre-snap changes to the called play until the end of the play (a play which he clearly hasn't changed out of play-action, since he faked the handoff after the snap).

You're not making a lick of sense.

[TheSkeptic]

I think we have a good roster.

The D has playmakers/real talent at all levels
Gary/Clark
Campbell was an all pro but had a down year
Jaire

If others can take a step up this D should be top 5
Safety is a concern but if they can be average that's good enough

O had question marks but we have seen flashes from Watson. He has star potential.
The TEs have elite traits let's hope on a few years they can play to those levels. The speed at the position should press defenses right away
Top 3 backfield and I'm excited about the 3rd RB battle.
OL is fine.
QB is still a mystery

The O is young fast and will grow together. I like the fact all these guys will find an identity together. Even ML will look to run his system without AR. This in not a knock but sometimes change is good and throwing all these kids in the deep end together could be something special.

The roster is good with a chance to be great in the near future

Rasul and Doubs are also playmakers and IMO the only question for Watson already being a star is to be healthy.

This could easily be a SB team in 2024/25. This year it is a learning year for Love, the 2 TE's LVN and Reed. A year to get healthy for Gary. And two 1sts on next year's draft.

[Yoop]

my point is this, once the QB does the fake handoff, and finds no one open he has the option to do something else, and all his options will be discussed either in the huddle or pre snap,

If he does the fake handoff, it's too late to discuss his options pre-snap, because the ball has already been snapped by the time he does the fake handoff and tries to find someone open. A fake handoff is a post-snap action, so a QB can't possibly make pre-snap changes to the called play until the end of the play (a play which he clearly hasn't changed out of play-action, since he faked the handoff after the snap).

You're not making a lick of sense.

geesh never thought of that

I've seen fake handoffs, boots and keepers, I've seen the QB fake a pass after a fake handoff and a lateral, tons of busted plays where the QB had to do a number of other things and all fall under the umbrella of OPTIONS the QB is forced to resort to.

yet I'am the guy not making any sense

[Pckfn23]

We have always been talking about called/designed plays, not busted plays.

[Yoop]

I think we have a good roster.

The D has playmakers/real talent at all levels
Gary/Clark
Campbell was an all pro but had a down year
Jaire

If others can take a step up this D should be top 5
Safety is a concern but if they can be average that's good enough

O had question marks but we have seen flashes from Watson. He has star potential.
The TEs have elite traits let's hope on a few years they can play to those levels. The speed at the position should press defenses right away
Top 3 backfield and I'm excited about the 3rd RB battle.
OL is fine.
QB is still a mystery

The O is young fast and will grow together. I like the fact all these guys will find an identity together. Even ML will look to run his system without AR. This in not a knock but sometimes change is good and throwing all these kids in the deep end together could be something special.

The roster is good with a chance to be great in the near future

Rasul and Doubs are also playmakers and IMO the only question for Watson already being a star is to be healthy.

This could easily be a SB team in 2024/25. This year it is a learning year for Love, the 2 TE's LVN and Reed. A year to get healthy for Gary. And two 1sts on next year's draft.

I think people are shy of predicting this team could possibly be better this year then they predict for fear of being wrong, being wrong in this forum has become a life long sentence

Love is inheriting a better receiver situation then Rodgers has had in 6 years, a better OL and defense then Rodgers had when he started in 08, this idea that LOve will only attain what Rodgers did in 08 I find ridiculous, crips Skeptic no one campaigned for Love harder then you did, I don't get all these reservations.

for starters there are 4 better receiver prospects on this roster then we've had for ages, and last year proved that rookie receivers can excel, Wicks and Reed are chomping at the bit to prove what Watson and Doubs showed last season, even Toure, who I chastised as just a guy showed some promise of a brighter future.

and both rookie TE's can also add a lot as just receiving threats, in 2 long over do drafts our receiver situation went from mediocre to poor outside of Adams, to now a force DC have to game plan for more then ONE receiver strong, huge change as I'am sure your going to see, I will be disappointed if we don't win the division or have 12 win season, and we surely have the talent to compete for a SB trophy.

[Yoop]

We have always been talking about called/designed plays, not busted plays.

I was always talking about options as it pertains to the QB position.

[Backthepack4ever]

I think we have a good roster.

The D has playmakers/real talent at all levels
Gary/Clark
Campbell was an all pro but had a down year
Jaire

If others can take a step up this D should be top 5
Safety is a concern but if they can be average that's good enough

O had question marks but we have seen flashes from Watson. He has star potential.
The TEs have elite traits let's hope on a few years they can play to those levels. The speed at the position should press defenses right away
Top 3 backfield and I'm excited about the 3rd RB battle.
OL is fine.
QB is still a mystery

The O is young fast and will grow together. I like the fact all these guys will find an identity together. Even ML will look to run his system without AR. This in not a knock but sometimes change is good and throwing all these kids in the deep end together could be something special.

The roster is good with a chance to be great in the near future

Rasul and Doubs are also playmakers and IMO the only question for Watson already being a star is to be healthy.

This could easily be a SB team in 2024/25. This year it is a learning year for Love, the 2 TE's LVN and Reed. A year to get healthy for Gary. And two 1sts on next year's draft.

I think people are shy of predicting this team could possibly be better this year then they predict for fear of being wrong, being wrong in this forum has become a life long sentence

Love is inheriting a better receiver situation then Rodgers has had in 6 years, a better OL and defense then Rodgers had when he started in 08, this idea that LOve will only attain what Rodgers did in 08 I find ridiculous, crips Skeptic no one campaigned for Love harder then you did, I don't get all these reservations.

for starters there are 4 better receiver prospects on this roster then we've had for ages, and last year proved that rookie receivers can excel, Wicks and Reed are chomping at the bit to prove what Watson and Doubs showed last season, even Toure, who I chastised as just a guy showed some promise of a brighter future.

and both rookie TE's can also add a lot as just receiving threats, in 2 long over do drafts our receiver situation went from mediocre to poor outside of Adams, to now a force DC have to game plan for more then ONE receiver strong, huge change as I'am sure your going to see, I will be disappointed if we don't win the division or have 12 win season, and we surely have the talent to compete for a SB trophy.

I think we steam roll the NFCN to be honest. Really outside of Philly the NFC is wide open. (SF has a nice roster also). Guys like Doubs and Toure will play huge rolls. I think they will be fine.

I really hope Walker and Wyatt can be something. If we hit home runs on those two this d will be nasty

[Yoop]

Rasul and Doubs are also playmakers and IMO the only question for Watson already being a star is to be healthy.

This could easily be a SB team in 2024/25. This year it is a learning year for Love, the 2 TE's LVN and Reed. A year to get healthy for Gary. And two 1sts on next year's draft.

I think people are shy of predicting this team could possibly be better this year then they predict for fear of being wrong, being wrong in this forum has become a life long sentence

Love is inheriting a better receiver situation then Rodgers has had in 6 years, a better OL and defense then Rodgers had when he started in 08, this idea that LOve will only attain what Rodgers did in 08 I find ridiculous, crips Skeptic no one campaigned for Love harder then you did, I don't get all these reservations.

for starters there are 4 better receiver prospects on this roster then we've had for ages, and last year proved that rookie receivers can excel, Wicks and Reed are chomping at the bit to prove what Watson and Doubs showed last season, even Toure, who I chastised as just a guy showed some promise of a brighter future.

and both rookie TE's can also add a lot as just receiving threats, in 2 long over do drafts our receiver situation went from mediocre to poor outside of Adams, to now a force DC have to game plan for more then ONE receiver strong, huge change as I'am sure your going to see, I will be disappointed if we don't win the division or have 12 win season, and we surely have the talent to compete for a SB trophy.

I think we steam roll the NFCN to be honest. Really outside of Philly the NFC is wide open. (SF has a nice roster also). Guys like Doubs and Toure will play huge rolls. I think they will be fine.

I really hope Walker and Wyatt can be something. If we hit home runs on those two this d will be nasty

I think so to, nice to hear a optimistic voice in this forum BTP4ever, most have been ultra reservist, even though I think Detroit and even Chicago will improve, still think we are the big Dog in this division even though we are starting a new QB, imo Minny will decline .

I think Walker was better then most gave credit for, with Campbell out to start the season he was given a full play book, and that's a ton to ask from any rookie MLB, even so like you I expect more from both he and Wyatt this year, DT is another tough position for a rookie.

the test for Love is a close game against 2nd and 3rd down pass rush, I don't think we saw enough of that last year to feel completely secure, other then that he passed last seasons small sampling with flying colors.

[go pak go]

yoop just read people's posts. Just read them.

Skeptic said this is likely a SB team in 24/25 as this year will be a learning year. Never did skeptic say this would be a bad team like you are alluding to comparing this squad to the 08 Packers. Just stated it's not a SB team.

Many here have said there is no reason to dismiss the 2023 Packers being better than the 2022 Packers. I fully expect a jump in performance this year just as I expected a better record in 2022 had Love been our starting QB because honestly there was only one game I could point to #12 being the reason we won (Dallas).

I expect GB to battle DET for the division. Detroit has reason for optimism. They have a fantastic offense and Jameson Williams is a great wildcard for them as that #2 threat after his suspension. They also should see significant improvement from their defense compared to last year based on their offseason signings and honestly just regression to the mean.

But no. I do not expect a SB caliber team in 2023. That is absolutely a leap. Those teams are rare. A lot of things would have to come together for that to happen. Doesn't mean it can't...but a lot of things have to come together.

[lupedafiasco]

I think this is a pretty good roster. The more I look I think the Bears finish last and the Vikings finish 3rd. Really it will come down to how much the Lions improved over a season ago compared to us. I think we made better upgrades through the draft this season and we lost quite a few players that are addition by subtraction. I think the losses of Mercedes Lewis. Dean Lowry, and Allen Lazard are all massive additions by subtractions. Possibly replacing Rodgers and Amos could be as well just based on them having down years. Replacing Crosby will help defense and special teams just based on field position placement. Not to mention less returns means less ST injuries that sap the teams depth and long term development.

If Love ends up being top 10 this is easily a playoff team. Probably a contender. If hes anything less than that we probably just sneak in winning a weak division and get bounced early.

[Backthepack4ever]

I think this is a pretty good roster. The more I look I think the Bears finish last and the Vikings finish 3rd. Really it will come down to how much the Lions improved over a season ago compared to us. I think we made better upgrades through the draft this season and we lost quite a few players that are addition by subtraction. I think the losses of Mercedes Lewis. Dean Lowry, and Allen Lazard are all massive additions by subtractions. Possibly replacing Rodgers and Amos could be as well just based on them having down years. Replacing Crosby will help defense and special teams just based on field position placement. Not to mention less returns means less ST injuries that sap the teams depth and long term development.

If Love ends up being top 10 this is easily a playoff team. Probably a contender. If hes anything less than that we probably just sneak in winning a weak division and get bounced early.

I'm mostly with you on everything here. The Crosby kickoffs will not be missed. I will say though he was auto when it mattered in cold and playoffs. Lewis was a leader of men but I think we are ok there. Lowery off the field we were better last year. We drafted tons to fill those snaps along with TJ and Wyatt.

I'm with Yoop on Walker will only be better. Some bad angles and dumb decisions but this kid is an athlete And around the ball. A little growing up upstairs and an off-season will do wonders.

Being in NC I get asked daily (bc every stranger I speak to I have to say I'm a packer) they ask about the divorce. I say I welcomed it and am truly excited for the future. I really am. That might be a different story in November but today I am pumped to be a packer

[Yoop]

Many here have said there is no reason to dismiss the 2023 Packers being better than the 2022 Packers. I fully expect a jump in performance this year just as I expected a better record in 2022 had Love been our starting QB because honestly there was only one game I could point to #12 being the reason we won (Dallas).

who is this many here you speak of? all I here is wait till 2024, it's the central thyme in this forum, it's why I applauded the optimism of BTPFever, I mean I get it, people are leery of predicting more then mediocre success for Love in his first season, but I pointed out pretty solid reasons for Rodger first season win/lost record, he had a bottom 1/3rd in the league defense that gave up 23 points a game, Love simply should have a better defense to support him and also ST's

of course this season should be better then last year, no matter who the QB is ( you just couldn't help taking another poke at Rodgers could you? ) we obviously dealt with Receiver health issues from both Watson and Doubs, when Lazard becomes the go to target then it's pretty obvious the receiver situation is NOT GOOD, but lets blame Rodgers, who actually was rated as the 2nd most accurate QB last season I read, also the guy listed 40 dropped passes which I previously brought forth, which I supplied links to, so I wont repeat looking for that stuff, you seem to have your mind made up that the OL musical chair and issues with receivers didn't make Rodgers (or any QB's) job near impossible last year, I think our coaches would disagree with that too.

I expect Love wont cost us games, and his surrounding cast of skill position players is the best it's been in years, though young, there more talented imo then prior prospects, specially Reed, Musgrave, even Wicks could see a lot of snaps, plus I expect this OL to be more settled in to start this season, along with the same on defense, We have to much talent on defense for Lafleur, Gutekunst, Murphy for me to expect they would put up with the crap we saw to start last season, I'am going off of feelings that I think Matt Lafleur, Gute and Murphy care about there resume, and the talent they have assembled to allow a lot of lee way with Barry to bungle it up again, least I hope not.

[Cdragon]

We are missing 57 million dollars in players this year. As good as I think this roster is you'd need a couple injury tidal waves in the NFC to fill a hole that big and get us to the SuperBowl. We've got a good young team on a 3rd place schedule, I expect a ten win season and a fight for the division. I think this team is on the verge of a window. This year they learn to win and get some young guys playoff experience. And in 24 with some extra picks and some top FAs we can roll. Besides the young stars I think we have, I really like the depth of the roster.

Go Pack Go!

[go pak go]

Many here have said there is no reason to dismiss the 2023 Packers being better than the 2022 Packers. I fully expect a jump in performance this year just as I expected a better record in 2022 had Love been our starting QB because honestly there was only one game I could point to #12 being the reason we won (Dallas).

who is this many here you speak of? all I here is wait till 2024, it's the central thyme in this forum, it's why I applauded the optimism of BTPFever, I mean I get it, people are leery of predicting more then mediocre success for Love in his first season, but I pointed out pretty solid reasons for Rodger first season win/lost record, he had a bottom 1/3rd in the league defense that gave up 23 points a game, Love simply should have a better defense to support him and also ST's

Reading simply on this thread before the 4,500 passing yards and 1,500 rushing yards saga and then the not understanding the difference between a PA, RPO and Option play...I have come with the following

Group of posters on this thread who say:

We have a talented and good roster. Acknowledges youth and coaching will be key. Expectation of playoffs is largely present in every post.
Scott4Pack, Skeptic, Cdragon, go pak go, BF004, Yoho, Drj, Labrev, yoop, lulu, MadcityMatt, RingoCStarrQB, lupedfiasco, AmishMafia,

Recongizes great talent but also knows things can go wrong. Median win range is 9-8 and edge of playoffs
APB

Has no expectations
Pugger

That's a pretty general consensus that this forum thinks the Packers have great talent, is young and can surprise the league with a playoff berth in 2023.

[salmar80]

We are missing 57 million dollars in players this year. As good as I think this roster is you'd need a couple injury tidal waves in the NFC to fill a hole that big and get us to the SuperBowl. We've got a good young team on a 3rd place schedule, I expect a ten win season and a fight for the division. I think this team is on the verge of a window. This year they learn to win and get some young guys playoff experience. And in 24 with some extra picks and some top FAs we can roll. Besides the young stars I think we have, I really like the depth of the roster.

Go Pack Go!

This is pretty much what I think, too.

If a few players make 2nd and 3rd year leaps and Love proved to be the man, this team can soar this year. But it's more likely this year is a shaky trial run before the window opens next season.