Do we have a bad, good, or great roster in 2023?

[NCF]

Many here have said there is no reason to dismiss the 2023 Packers being better than the 2022 Packers. I fully expect a jump in performance this year just as I expected a better record in 2022 had Love been our starting QB because honestly there was only one game I could point to #12 being the reason we won (Dallas).

who is this many here you speak of? all I here is wait till 2024, it's the central thyme in this forum, it's why I applauded the optimism of BTPFever, I mean I get it, people are leery of predicting more then mediocre success for Love in his first season, but I pointed out pretty solid reasons for Rodger first season win/lost record, he had a bottom 1/3rd in the league defense that gave up 23 points a game, Love simply should have a better defense to support him and also ST's

Reading simply on this thread before the 4,500 passing yards and 1,500 rushing yards saga and then the not understanding the difference between a PA, RPO and Option play...I have come with the following

Group of posters on this thread who say:

We have a talented and good roster. Acknowledges youth and coaching will be key. Expectation of playoffs is largely present in every post.
Scott4Pack, Skeptic, Cdragon, go pak go, BF004, Yoho, Drj, Labrev, yoop, lulu, MadcityMatt, RingoCStarrQB, lupedfiasco, AmishMafia,

Recongizes great talent but also knows things can go wrong. Median win range is 9-8 and edge of playoffs
APB

Has no expectations
Pugger

That's a pretty general consensus that this forum thinks the Packers have great talent, is young and can surprise the league with a playoff berth in 2023.

I think everyone knows where I stand on Jordan Love. I have been waiting for him to get his chance since the day we drafted him and I absolutely expect him to succeed. Growing pains are to be expected based on the entire history of football, but I will not stop short of claiming that I think the Packers win a Super Bowl with Jordan Love at the helm.

[NCF]

I think this is a pretty good roster. The more I look I think the Bears finish last and the Vikings finish 3rd. Really it will come down to how much the Lions improved over a season ago compared to us. I think we made better upgrades through the draft this season and we lost quite a few players that are addition by subtraction. I think the losses of Mercedes Lewis. Dean Lowry, and Allen Lazard are all massive additions by subtractions. Possibly replacing Rodgers and Amos could be as well just based on them having down years. Replacing Crosby will help defense and special teams just based on field position placement. Not to mention less returns means less ST injuries that sap the teams depth and long term development.

If Love ends up being top 10 this is easily a playoff team. Probably a contender. If hes anything less than that we probably just sneak in winning a weak division and get bounced early.

Here is another thing, this is finally the band aid year. It is hard to build a good roster. It is even more difficult, if not impossible, to build a roster to contend for the upcoming season and one that is set for the future. This is finally the year where we are back down to one roster. Let the kids play. If the suck, replace them. This has all the makings of a really fun season and I do agree we are better on paper than the .500 prognosticators continually predict for us. 10 wins seems like a solid goal for this team, but then I look at the schedule. Are we sitting at 5-0 at our Bye Week? If not, who is beating us? Even if we drop a game, I just think if this team gets a little momentum and confidence early, they could be challengers.

[TheSkeptic]

I think we have a good roster.

The D has playmakers/real talent at all levels
Gary/Clark
Campbell was an all pro but had a down year
Jaire

If others can take a step up this D should be top 5
Safety is a concern but if they can be average that's good enough

O had question marks but we have seen flashes from Watson. He has star potential.
The TEs have elite traits let's hope on a few years they can play to those levels. The speed at the position should press defenses right away
Top 3 backfield and I'm excited about the 3rd RB battle.
OL is fine.
QB is still a mystery

The O is young fast and will grow together. I like the fact all these guys will find an identity together. Even ML will look to run his system without AR. This in not a knock but sometimes change is good and throwing all these kids in the deep end together could be something special.

The roster is good with a chance to be great in the near future

Rasul and Doubs are also playmakers and IMO the only question for Watson already being a star is to be healthy.

This could easily be a SB team in 2024/25. This year it is a learning year for Love, the 2 TE's LVN and Reed. A year to get healthy for Gary. And two 1sts on next year's draft.

I think people are shy of predicting this team could possibly be better this year then they predict for fear of being wrong, being wrong in this forum has become a life long sentence

Love is inheriting a better receiver situation then Rodgers has had in 6 years, a better OL and defense then Rodgers had when he started in 08, this idea that LOve will only attain what Rodgers did in 08 I find ridiculous, crips Skeptic no one campaigned for Love harder then you did, I don't get all these reservations.

for starters there are 4 better receiver prospects on this roster then we've had for ages, and last year proved that rookie receivers can excel, Wicks and Reed are chomping at the bit to prove what Watson and Doubs showed last season, even Toure, who I chastised as just a guy showed some promise of a brighter future.

and both rookie TE's can also add a lot as just receiving threats, in 2 long over do drafts our receiver situation went from mediocre to poor outside of Adams, to now a force DC have to game plan for more then ONE receiver strong, huge change as I'am sure your going to see, I will be disappointed if we don't win the division or have 12 win season, and we surely have the talent to compete for a SB trophy.

BUT:
Gary who is coming off a very serious injury will likely not be 100% until December. Who has been? Maybe you could say that Jenkins was in mid November, but not before. Tonyan was not until December. Jordy was never again 100%. It took Bakh 2+ years.

Stokes is also coming off a serious injury and likely won't be 100% before mid season, even though he seems to be moving well now he still has missed most of his second year and still looked like a rookie early in his second year before he got hurt.

Reed is a rookie. No matter how good he looks in TC, he will make rookie mistakes well into the season.

The 2 TE's will both have major deficiencies in their game well into the season. Deguara is a H-Back, not a TE. Davis is a ST player and probably never anything more.

The Oline is good but not likely to be great until mid season. I assume that Tom is going to be RT but he is still just starting his 2nd year. I have no confidence in any of the backups. It is hard to forget just how bad Yosh looked at RT in that last game vs the Lions.

The Dline is Clark and 2 maybe's.

LVN is a very talented rookie who might learn fast - or might take half a season.

The kicker is a total unknown.

And finally there is the safety situation. Amos was a big loss.

Frankly even if Love plays well, I do not see this team being having more than 5 wins in the first 10 games. It is hard to get to 12 wins from there. Maybe 10 wins is enough to win the division though.

Plus, somebody critical is going to get hurt, as seems to be normal lately.

[NCF]

I think people are shy of predicting this team could possibly be better this year then they predict for fear of being wrong, being wrong in this forum has become a life long sentence

[Captain_Ben]

I don't care about being wrong on this forum. Since everyone else seems to be making predictions, I guess I'll join the party. I've alluded to this in past posts, but based on what I have seen from him in his Packers tenure, I don't have faith in LaFleur. What I mean by that is I don't believe he has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. This is a solid roster with good young players, some of whom we've seen make very stupid mistakes at critical moments in games. I expect that to continue for as long as MLF is HC because his sad and somber teary-eyed pleading expressions don't strike fear nor command respect from pro athletes. So until he proves otherwise, I expect his teams to have problems with discipline, especially now that he doesn't have Rodgers to do the yelling on the field for him.

With the talent and schedule that we have, it is completely reasonable to expect a .500 season. I say if we end up 2 games or more under .500, it's time to can the head coach.

[Scott4Pack]

I think this is a pretty good roster. The more I look I think the Bears finish last and the Vikings finish 3rd. Really it will come down to how much the Lions improved over a season ago compared to us. I think we made better upgrades through the draft this season and we lost quite a few players that are addition by subtraction. I think the losses of Mercedes Lewis. Dean Lowry, and Allen Lazard are all massive additions by subtractions. Possibly replacing Rodgers and Amos could be as well just based on them having down years. Replacing Crosby will help defense and special teams just based on field position placement. Not to mention less returns means less ST injuries that sap the teams depth and long term development.

If Love ends up being top 10 this is easily a playoff team. Probably a contender. If hes anything less than that we probably just sneak in winning a weak division and get bounced early.

Here is another thing, this is finally the band aid year. It is hard to build a good roster. It is even more difficult, if not impossible, to build a roster to contend for the upcoming season and one that is set for the future. This is finally the year where we are back down to one roster. Let the kids play. If the suck, replace them. This has all the makings of a really fun season and I do agree we are better on paper than the .500 prognosticators continually predict for us. 10 wins seems like a solid goal for this team, but then I look at the schedule. Are we sitting at 5-0 at our Bye Week? If not, who is beating us? Even if we drop a game, I just think if this team gets a little momentum and confidence early, they could be challengers.

Yup. With a young team like this, maybe the hardest thing will be for them to collectively learn how to win. We can’t quantify how or when or if that will occur. But it helps to have ease of schedule to start the season, for sure.

[NCF]

I think this is a pretty good roster. The more I look I think the Bears finish last and the Vikings finish 3rd. Really it will come down to how much the Lions improved over a season ago compared to us. I think we made better upgrades through the draft this season and we lost quite a few players that are addition by subtraction. I think the losses of Mercedes Lewis. Dean Lowry, and Allen Lazard are all massive additions by subtractions. Possibly replacing Rodgers and Amos could be as well just based on them having down years. Replacing Crosby will help defense and special teams just based on field position placement. Not to mention less returns means less ST injuries that sap the teams depth and long term development.

If Love ends up being top 10 this is easily a playoff team. Probably a contender. If hes anything less than that we probably just sneak in winning a weak division and get bounced early.

Here is another thing, this is finally the band aid year. It is hard to build a good roster. It is even more difficult, if not impossible, to build a roster to contend for the upcoming season and one that is set for the future. This is finally the year where we are back down to one roster. Let the kids play. If the suck, replace them. This has all the makings of a really fun season and I do agree we are better on paper than the .500 prognosticators continually predict for us. 10 wins seems like a solid goal for this team, but then I look at the schedule. Are we sitting at 5-0 at our Bye Week? If not, who is beating us? Even if we drop a game, I just think if this team gets a little momentum and confidence early, they could be challengers.

Yup. With a young team like this, maybe the hardest thing will be for them to collectively learn how to win. We can’t quantify how or when or if that will occur. But it helps to have ease of schedule to start the season, for sure.

No better way to learn than to beat the Bears in Chicago week 1.

[TheSkeptic]

No better way to learn than to beat the Bears in Chicago week 1.

On that we all agree!

[BF004]

Love is inheriting a better receiver situation then Rodgers has had in 6 years

I mean, I hate to be rude, but this is such a stupid thing to say. And I know you really really want this to be true, but……

We had debatably the best WR in football. And according to NFL GMs, a pair of 10M+ a year #2 caliber WRs.

And what happened as a result? Aaron won 2 MVPs.

We lose 1 or them and Davante. Aaron has a middling year.

We’ve seen him with awesome WRs, he wins MVPs, we’ve seen him with bad WRs, we miss the playoffs.

Isn’t a ton more complicated than that.

We did not have bad WRs in 20/21.

And I’m in the camp that we win the SB in 21 if we add OBJ to that roster.

[RingoCStarrQB]

Love is inheriting a better receiver situation then Rodgers has had in 6 years

I mean, I hate to be rude, but this is such a stupid thing to say. And I know you really really want this to be true, but……

We had debatably the best WR in football. And according to NFL GMs, a pair of 10M+ a year #2 caliber WRs.

And what happened as a result? Aaron won 2 MVPs.

We lose 1 or them and Davante. Aaron has a middling year.

We’ve seen him with awesome WRs, he wins MVPs, we’ve seen him with bad WRs, we miss the playoffs.

Isn’t a ton more complicated than that.

We did not have bad WRs in 20/21.

And I’m in the camp that we win the SB in 21 if we add OBJ to that roster.

Sterling Sharpe played opposite guys like Walter Stanley,
Sanjay Beach, Mark Clayton and Perry Kemp, and Robert Brooks. Except for Brooks, most were "bad".

[Pckfn23]

Perry Kemp was not bad.

[RingoCStarrQB]

Best WR combination was arguably Dowler, Dale and McGee. The Driver, Jordy and Jennings combo was likely 2nd best.

[RingoCStarrQB]

Perry Kemp was not bad.

True. Mediocre maybe?

[Pckfn23]

Perry Kemp was not bad.

True. Mediocre maybe?

Mediocre is acceptable

[Yoop]

Love is inheriting a better receiver situation then Rodgers has had in 6 years

I mean, I hate to be rude, but this is such a stupid thing to say. And I know you really really want this to be true, but……

We had debatably the best WR in football. And according to NFL GMs, a pair of 10M+ a year #2 caliber WRs.

And what happened as a result? Aaron won 2 MVPs.

We lose 1 or them and Davante. Aaron has a middling year.

We’ve seen him with awesome WRs, he wins MVPs, we’ve seen him with bad WRs, we miss the playoffs.

Isn’t a ton more complicated than that.

We did not have bad WRs in 20/21.

And I’m in the camp that we win the SB in 21 if we add OBJ to that roster.

Devante Adams, then slow to separate and rarely open Lazard, and a field stretching MVS that barely caught 50% of his targets., why do you think we threw to Adams a 150 times a season, even Lafleur agreed Adams was #1 read on 80% of pass plays, that doesn't happen with OBJ or any other quality #2.

I can't get over the defense you and others make for what has actually been NO better then #3 and 4 receiver tier talent, a #3 (600 yards) receiver goes for 10 mil., same with a guy like MVS that can demand safety help over the top, that has value, but it's not something you can count on to get open or be a #1 read in a rotation and neither rarely where for us.

It is better to have 2 WR's a tad less talented then Adams who still can get open quick like a Watson, Doubs, and probably Reed and Wicks, not to even mention these seam stretching TE's, this group improves on our WR situation if these rookies are given the opportunity and stay more healthy then Watson and Doubs did last year.

I wont be rude, have a great 4th to you and all

[Yoop]

I think people are shy of predicting this team could possibly be better this year then they predict for fear of being wrong, being wrong in this forum has become a life long sentence

funk you man

hope you and yours have a safe and happy 4th of July

[Yoop]

BUT:
Gary who is coming off a very serious injury will likely not be 100% until December. Who has been? Maybe you could say that Jenkins was in mid November, but not before. Tonyan was not until December. Jordy was never again 100%. It took Bakh 2+ years.

Stokes is also coming off a serious injury and likely won't be 100% before mid season, even though he seems to be moving well now he still has missed most of his second year and still looked like a rookie early in his second year before he got hurt.

Reed is a rookie. No matter how good he looks in TC, he will make rookie mistakes well into the season.

The 2 TE's will both have major deficiencies in their game well into the season. Deguara is a H-Back, not a TE. Davis is a ST player and probably never anything more.

The Oline is good but not likely to be great until mid season. I assume that Tom is going to be RT but he is still just starting his 2nd year. I have no confidence in any of the backups. It is hard to forget just how bad Yosh looked at RT in that last game vs the Lions.

The Dline is Clark and 2 maybe's.

LVN is a very talented rookie who might learn fast - or might take half a season.

The kicker is a total unknown.

And finally there is the safety situation. Amos was a big loss.

Frankly even if Love plays well, I do not see this team being having more than 5 wins in the first 10 games. It is hard to get to 12 wins from there. Maybe 10 wins is enough to win the division though.

Plus, somebody critical is going to get hurt, as seems to be normal lately.
1

Gary is on pace to only miss a couple games, and the only reason Jenkins took time to gain back ability is because we moved him to RT, Bakhtiari took longer because he is older, and his injury was more complicated

we showed that we can adjust for the loss of Stokes his eventual health is a bonus over what we had last year

Reed is draft and play ready just as Watson and even Doubs was last year, Wicks is as well.
Cobb had a bunch of talent ahead of him as a rookie and still had 375 yrds receiving, year two he had almost a grand, there is a ton of potential on tap in our receiver room now.

I don't see issues with Wyatt, he'll be a force next to Clark or Slaton, same with Walker, and LVN is even more gifted as a rookie then they where, and Amo really declined last year, Savage and Moore or Ford will probably be a better group then the position brought last season.

Kicker is a legit question mark.

I saved TE till last because I wanted you to read this, if all goes according to this plan TE is a position of vast improvement, and should really spark our passing game, and shouldn't be a albatross when we run either.


from the article
In general, when speaking about the rookie class, several of Green Bay’s position coaches have mentioned wanting to give the young players very specific roles and responsibilities early on, having them prove that they can handle those tasks before dumping more on their plates. If the Packers take this approach with Musgrave and Kraft, we could see Deguara taking more tight end-specific reps as he fills in those gaps.

Based on what I saw during offseason programs, for Kraft, his early role could be as more of a traditional Y-tight end, who can be used in the passing game, but, more often than not, is lined up in-line as a blocker. Musgrave, meanwhile, fills the F-tight end role, lining up in the slot to create mismatches in the passing game. Blocking, specifically, can be difficult for young tight ends to master, but it’s an area where Deguara excelled last season.

The expectation is that Musgrave and Kraft become able to impact both the running and passing games, but Deguara, who does not have the upside or playmaking that the rookies do, does potentially have the more well-rounded skill set at this time, adding more versatility and, therefore, unpredictability to the Packers’ offense. With Green Bay potentially using more 12 personnel packages this season – or two tight ends being on the field – Deguara could compliment either Musgrave or Kraft as both find their footing in the NFL.

Musgrave spent a lot of time with the starting offense during OTAs and minicamp, but Deguara also took some snaps with that unit as well. Both rookies will see plenty of playing time this season; I’m not saying that Deguara is going to be tight end one. But rather, there are absolutely going to be ups and downs as Musgrave and Kraft adjust to the NFL, and realistically, the Packers aren’t going to expect both players to be able to do it all right away at a position that comes with numerous responsibilities. So although they may want Deguara playing primarily as an H-back, and they may want Musgrave and Kraft’s playmaking abilities on the field as much as possible, Deguara may be needed to provide some stability to the tight end position as well.

Jo is the oldest guy in our room, but he’s a young player,” added Dunn, “and he’s going to continue to develop and develop and develop. You can see it every time we go on the field and in practices; just his development take place.

https://dairylandexpress.com/2023/06/18 ... 20H%2Dback.

[Scott4Pack]

Love is inheriting a better receiver situation then Rodgers has had in 6 years

I mean, I hate to be rude, but this is such a stupid thing to say. And I know you really really want this to be true, but……

We had debatably the best WR in football. And according to NFL GMs, a pair of 10M+ a year #2 caliber WRs.

And what happened as a result? Aaron won 2 MVPs.

We lose 1 or them and Davante. Aaron has a middling year.

We’ve seen him with awesome WRs, he wins MVPs, we’ve seen him with bad WRs, we miss the playoffs.

Isn’t a ton more complicated than that.

We did not have bad WRs in 20/21.

And I’m in the camp that we win the SB in 21 if we add OBJ to that roster.

You might be oversimplifying when you say it “isn’t a ton more complicated than that.”

Aside from any real or perceived dip in the WR talent, the 2022 Rodgers was at a point where his physical talent may finally be slipping. And his mental investment might have possibly been sub-par, at least by his own standards. Add that this QB takes control of the offense on the field possibly more often than anybody admits and the young WRs would’ve naturally struggled with that.

2023 brings a year where the HC must demand that his new QB and the still young WRs/TEs must keep on schedule with the play calling. If they do, there isn’t any reason that they should not do well enough for us to contend for the NFC Nordic title. That is especially since da Bears still suck, the Vikes are sliding downhill, and the Lions still have something to prove.

[AmishMafia]

Best WR combination was arguably Dowler, Dale and McGee. The Driver, Jordy and Jennings combo was likely 2nd best.

John Jefferson and James Lofton.

[Cdragon]

Best WR combination was arguably Dowler, Dale and McGee. The Driver, Jordy and Jennings combo was likely 2nd best.

John Jefferson and James Lofton.

Don Hutson and the ball boy.