Do we have a bad, good, or great roster in 2023?

[BSA]

Andy Reid is one of the better HCs in the League today and on his way to the HOF some day .
When he interviewed with the Chiefs for HC position, this was his famous team-building quote:


"I want 2 OTs, a QB, two pass rushers, two corners, and I’ll figure the rest out."

2023 Packers are well on their way, aren't they ?
Packers have top talent at the premium positions - including one of the best CBs and LTs in the game.
When Gary gets back up to speed, that's another premium player at a premium position.

2 OTs: Bak + Tom + Nijman
QB: Love
2 pass rushers: Gary + Smith + LVN
2 corners: Jaire + Rasul + Stokes

That's a very solid foundation to build around.

[CWIMM]

I disagree.

The Packers were 8-9 last year with injuries and middling QB play. They have since bolstered several positions of importance while (presumably) gaining back those injured players. The big question, obviously, will be Love taking over at QB.

Love isn't replacing HOF level QB play. Love is replacing middling QB play that had the Packers competing for a division title up until the final weekend - a game they were favored to win. If the Packers can get middling QB play (or better) from Love this year, I think they'll be right back in the thick of things come January.

No, I don't expect them to compete for a championship, at least not this year, but I do think they'll be competing for the division or a wildcard spot.

The Packers have lost significantly more proven talent than they have added this offseason. While Rodgers, Lazard, Tonyan, Lewis, Cobb, Amos, Reed and Lowry are gone two veterans in Moore and Owens.

While Rodgers didn't perform up to potential last season it will be difficult for a first year starter to match those numbers. Especially considering the lack of experience at pass catchers.

I fully expect this season to be a transition year in which they will lose more games than most around here expect. As long as Love and some other young players show promise I'm absolutely fine with that.

As a side note, they didn't compete for the division in the final week of the regular season but a wild card spot.

You are correct. The national media is very down on our roster. I believe I heard ESPN may be more bullish in Chicago than GB.

However, there are also some names in the national media that are quite bullish on Green Bay and think they could surprise people.

That is ultimately where I stand.

When I look at our schedule, I see a very good chance of starting hot our first 9 games. Our death stretch is mid November through early December

The first 9 games could work for or against us. On one hand, it could build confidence early and we start rolling. On the other hand, we may lose our opportunity to build wins vs winnable opponents as our own roster builds into its shoes.

But I am bullish. I think 9 to 12 wins and an NFC north Title is a possibility. But I'm not expecting anything.

And that's why I'm so excited for this season

According to ESPN the Packers have the worst chance of winning the division at 12%. Actually I don't care a whole lot about the national media though. But I definitely expect growing pains considering the team lacks a lot of experience on offense, therefore I don't believe they will get anywhere close to competing for the division. If most of the young players develop as hoped that will change in 2024 though.

I saw that prediction yesterday on yahoo, it's formulated on the basic thinking that Love being a first year starter will struggle, the WR's lack experience, and Barry isn't a good enough DC, it fails to realize that Love has sat behind a HOF, and in a scheme set he is well acquainted with, same with these young receivers, it's as though whomever wrote that has never seen a second year leap, and Watson over the last half of last season showed he's easily up to the task to produce well over a 1000 yrds, it's bonkers to not expect that since he lost half the season last year and still had close to 700 yards, same for Doubs, to expect regression makes no sense, throw in Reed, Toure, Wicks and these TE's and we finally have depth at receiver.

Love is a huge question mark entering this season as well. Even if he shows promise in his first season as a starter I expect some growing pains with him as well. I agree that it's possible for second year and rookie wide receivers to be successful but it's close to being unheard of having such a inexperienced group as the Packers will feature this year. That will result in some struggles for the group as well.

Overall, I believe the offense will struggle way too much for the team to end up winning as many games as you suggest.

That's why I keep linking info from other more legitimate sources

Here's another one; The Sagarin Ratings, used by bettors.

At the end of last season, GB was ranked # 8, 9 or 10 in the league depending on which ranking methods are used
(note where the legendary lions and the vincible vikings are ranked)

The Packers are a good team and I agree with go pak go that the 2023 roster is gonna be better than the 2022 roster

http://sagarin.com/sports/nflsend.htm

The national media and our rivals are all dreaming about the Packers sucking...in part because GB has been so good for so long.

But they're all going to be very disappointed. The 2023 Packers will be playing meaningful football in December

The rankings you linked to are from the end of last season. Since then, the Packers lost way more experienced talent than they added. Therefore that ranking doesn't mean a whole lot anymore.

If you take a look at the odds entering this season the Packers aren't favored to win the NFC North by any means. Actually they're mostly tied with the Bears to finish last.

Andy Reid is one of the better HCs in the League today and on his way to the HOF some day .
When he interviewed with the Chiefs for HC position, this was his famous team-building quote:


"I want 2 OTs, a QB, two pass rushers, two corners, and I’ll figure the rest out."

2023 Packers are well on their way, aren't they ?
Packers have top talent at the premium positions - including one of the best CBs and LTs in the game.
When Gary gets back up to speed, that's another premium player at a premium position.

2 OTs: Bak + Tom + Nijman
QB: Love
2 pass rushers: Gary + Smith + LVN
2 corners: Jaire + Rasul + Stokes

That's a very solid foundation to build around.

Most importantly, we have no idea if the Packers have top talent at the most important position on a football team though.

[APB]

The Packers have lost significantly more proven talent than they have added this offseason. While Rodgers, Lazard, Tonyan, Lewis, Cobb, Amos, Reed and Lowry are gone two veterans in Moore and Owens.

We're nitpicking here, but I don't consider the departing talent as all that significantly better an option for 2023. While the names are noteworthy, their individual play in several cases has been on a downward trajectory, some for multiple years. Lazard is about the only one you could make a case for as far as still ascending, but I like his roster replacements better in the long run. Him aside, every one of those players you listed have younger, ascending players stepping into those roles.

As a side note, they didn't compete for the division in the final week of the regular season but a wild card spot.

You're right. I keep forgetting about the Vikings and their anomaly of a season. Reword my post as "playoff berth" and the point still remains.

[Yoop]

Love is a huge question mark entering this season as well. Even if he shows promise in his first season as a starter I expect some growing pains with him as well. I agree that it's possible for second year and rookie wide receivers to be successful but it's close to being unheard of having such a inexperienced group as the Packers will feature this year. That will result in some struggles for the group as well.

Overall, I believe the offense will struggle way too much for the team to end up winning as many games as you suggest.

well everyone is entitled to there opinion, I look at the exchange of old declining players and the influx of younger more talented replacements as a positive for this season, and while the young inexperienced players will have some mistakes, there talent can't be over looked, same with Love, your projecting doom, and everything we have seen in just one week of practice says the opposite

[Cdragon]

The Packers have lost significantly more proven talent than they have added this offseason. While Rodgers, Lazard, Tonyan, Lewis, Cobb, Amos, Reed and Lowry are gone two veterans in Moore and Owens.

We're nitpicking here, but I don't consider the departing talent as all that significantly better an option for 2023. While the names are noteworthy, their individual play in several cases has been on a downward trajectory, some for multiple years. Lazard is about the only one you could make a case for as far as still ascending, but I like his roster replacements better in the long run. Him aside, every one of those players you listed have younger, ascending players stepping into those roles.

As a side note, they didn't compete for the division in the final week of the regular season but a wild card spot.

You're right. I keep forgetting about the Vikings and their anomaly of a season. Reword my post as "playoff berth" and the point still remains.

The only guy we lost who might still be worth something to us was Tonyan. Lazard only skill is knowing what AR wants. He is not a star. Cobb is a decrepit geezer at this point. Big Dog? put in a 6th lineman. Reed and Lowry are just guys, and we've got killers coming in. I'll take the occasional mistakes of youth and roll with guys who can still perform like they did at the combine. This is a transition team but we are finally going to see what MLF's system can do. I think it will be simpler on the kids because Love is just going to run the system. AR was a system unto himself. The kids aren't spending time trying to catch AR's attention and learn what he wants while trying to learn what MLF wants. I expect Love like AR in the beginning to use all his receivers. Taking the open guy and moving the chains are going to make the O a success.

Love is going to be key but you got a top OL and two proven backs that can drive the O.

This will be a competitive team this year. Once we clear the cap we'll have a door to walk through and not a window. Good this year, great next year.

[CWIMM]

We're nitpicking here, but I don't consider the departing talent as all that significantly better an option for 2023. While the names are noteworthy, their individual play in several cases has been on a downward trajectory, some for multiple years. Lazard is about the only one you could make a case for as far as still ascending, but I like his roster replacements better in the long run. Him aside, every one of those players you listed have younger, ascending players stepping into those roles.

It's possible that the players replacing the ones who departed this offseason might end up being an upgrade in the long run but I expect a drop-off in performance this season considering all of them completely lack experience. It's probable that not all of the young players develop as hoped as well though.

well everyone is entitled to there opinion, I look at the exchange of old declining players and the influx of younger more talented replacements as a positive for this season, and while the young inexperienced players will have some mistakes, there talent can't be over looked, same with Love, your projecting doom, and everything we have seen in just one week of practice says the opposite

Don't get me wrong, I'm not projecting doom with Love by any means. But to be honest, I have absolutely no idea how he will end up working out. Neither does anyone else around here. Some big time throws in practice doesn't make any difference.

The only guy we lost who might still be worth something to us was Tonyan. Lazard only skill is knowing what AR wants. He is not a star. Cobb is a decrepit geezer at this point. Big Dog? put in a 6th lineman. Reed and Lowry are just guys, and we've got killers coming in.

Love is going to be key but you got a top OL and two proven backs that can drive the O.

I'm not suggesting any of the players who left this offseason should be considered a star, aside of Rodgers of course but he's getting up there in age. With that being said, all of them will be replaced by inexperienced players which could go either way.

In addition I'm curious to find out if that offensive line is really a top unit in the league. I'm not convinced about that at this point.

[Cdragon]

We're nitpicking here, but I don't consider the departing talent as all that significantly better an option for 2023. While the names are noteworthy, their individual play in several cases has been on a downward trajectory, some for multiple years. Lazard is about the only one you could make a case for as far as still ascending, but I like his roster replacements better in the long run. Him aside, every one of those players you listed have younger, ascending players stepping into those roles.

It's possible that the players replacing the ones who departed this offseason might end up being an upgrade in the long run but I expect a drop-off in performance this season considering all of them completely lack experience. It's probable that not all of the young players develop as hoped as well though.

well everyone is entitled to there opinion, I look at the exchange of old declining players and the influx of younger more talented replacements as a positive for this season, and while the young inexperienced players will have some mistakes, there talent can't be over looked, same with Love, your projecting doom, and everything we have seen in just one week of practice says the opposite

Don't get me wrong, I'm not projecting doom with Love by any means. But to be honest, I have absolutely no idea how he will end up working out. Neither does anyone else around here. Some big time throws in practice doesn't make any difference.

The only guy we lost who might still be worth something to us was Tonyan. Lazard only skill is knowing what AR wants. He is not a star. Cobb is a decrepit geezer at this point. Big Dog? put in a 6th lineman. Reed and Lowry are just guys, and we've got killers coming in.

Love is going to be key but you got a top OL and two proven backs that can drive the O.

I'm not suggesting any of the players who left this offseason should be considered a star, aside of Rodgers of course but he's getting up there in age. With that being said, all of them will be replaced by inexperienced players which could go either way.

In addition I'm curious to find out if that offensive line is really a top unit in the league. I'm not convinced about that at this point.

While the OL has benefitted to a degree by ARs ability to play the bullfighter and extend the play far beyond the norm, trying to sustain a block and position for up to 10 seconds is incredibly tough. You can never be sure where the QB is. Love being in the pocket and getting the ball out will benefit the OL tremendously. When Love does break the pocket, like young QBs he is going to be running up field and burning the D where AR was having trouble outrunning DL at this point in his career. Burn them enough and the D is going to back off on the pass rush and play more contain helping your OL. AR wasn't burning the blitz like he used to, he was still looking deep. While I don't expect Love to be a master at burning the blitz yet, I expect him to hit his outlets.

Bak seems to be fine. Jenkins is back, Toms with extra lbs should be a monster at RT. The other guard spot is held by a solid player. Right now we are only taking about Myers. Our line stats were better last year than in 21. While injuries can ruin any position group I think we are going into 23 with another top ten line that will find some benefits to having Love as QB.

[BSA]

from The Athletic

" In 2020, Pro Football Focus logged Bakhtiari with nine quarterback pressures and one sack allowed in 446 pass-blocking snaps, good for a 91.6 pass-blocking grade, the best among offensive tackles. Jenkins allowed 14 pressures and one sack in 608 pass-blocking snaps. His pass-blocking grade ranked sixth among offensive guards who played in at least nine games. According to TruMedia, the Packers averaged 5.2 yards per rush on 322 carries with Bakhtiari and Jenkins on the field in 2020. With at least one of them not on the field, the Packers averaged 3.7 yards per carry on 121 rushes.

Not only will both players’ premier pass-blocking skills help protect Love as he assimilates to life as an NFL starting quarterback, but a run game that will likely be emphasized more this season with a new starting quarterback will benefit greatly from having No. 69 and No. 74 on the field at the same time, too."

“Me and Bakh, we been playing with each other for five years going on now, so we got a lot of chemistry, a lot of reps together,” Jenkins said. “The left side gonna be good.”

[CWIMM]

While the OL has benefitted to a degree by ARs ability to play the bullfighter and extend the play far beyond the norm, trying to sustain a block and position for up to 10 seconds is incredibly tough. You can never be sure where the QB is. Love being in the pocket and getting the ball out will benefit the OL tremendously. When Love does break the pocket, like young QBs he is going to be running up field and burning the D where AR was having trouble outrunning DL at this point in his career. Burn them enough and the D is going to back off on the pass rush and play more contain helping your OL. AR wasn't burning the blitz like he used to, he was still looking deep. While I don't expect Love to be a master at burning the blitz yet, I expect him to hit his outlets.

Bak seems to be fine. Jenkins is back, Toms with extra lbs should be a monster at RT. The other guard spot is held by a solid player. Right now we are only taking about Myers. Our line stats were better last year than in 21. While injuries can ruin any position group I think we are going into 23 with another top ten line that will find some benefits to having Love as QB.

There's absolutely no doubt that Love being more mobile than Rodgers as of late will benefit the offensive line. But, he will have to prove that he's capable of setting protections correctly on a regular basis, otherwise that won't help a whole lot. In addition he needs to show massive improvement in dealing with blitzes compared to what he did in his only start at Kansas City two years ago.

It's possible the offensive line will be a good unit without Rodgers as well. I need to see it first to be sure about it though.

[AmishMafia]

What I really loved about the MLF scheme was the difficulty in knowing what was coming. I recall a bit I saw on NFLN (?) Where they showed multiple plays side by side of AR taking the snap and turning to hand off. Then you had to guess which of the 2 plays were passes and which were runs. The punchline was there was no difference. And the point was, in both plays, the MLBs didn't move. They had to wait to see if it was a pass or a run as well. That gives the OL a 1/2 second to set up their blocks which is a huge advantage. For whatever reason, we didn't do this much last season. I suspect AR wasnt able to move smoothly and do this so I hope we get back with Love. That should help our OL quite a bit.

[Yoop]

old story, and early last season, but Rodgers was 7th fastest at getting the ball out at that point (2.53), true he does extend a play at times in hopes someone will clear, I think far more often pre Lafleur though

have to check, but 2.5 sounds about the time frame Love was getting it out the other night, pretty quick if I remember correctly

https://dairylandexpress.com/2022/09/27 ... downfield/

[Foosball]

I’m of the opinion that’s it’s time to sign a veteran wr. The Packers are a couple injuries away from being depleted of any experience at the position. The young receivers have gotten a lot of reps in training camp and can still get more in the last 2 preseason games.

As for who is available I have no idea. And maybe it’s slim pickens but I see a rotational player that could come in on 3rd down and add some depth and experience.

It kind of amazes me how the Packers seem to consistently put Love in pretty tough situations. Rookie TEs, rookie and 2nd year WRs.

I think a year or 2 from now they’ll be in great shape with their young talented core of pass catchers. But that won’t help Love this year. His inaugural year.

[TheSkeptic]

I’m of the opinion that’s it’s time to sign a veteran wr. The Packers are a couple injuries away from being depleted of any experience at the position. The young receivers have gotten a lot of reps in training camp and can still get more in the last 2 preseason games.

As for who is available I have no idea. And maybe it’s slim pickens but I see a rotational player that could come in on 3rd down and add some depth and experience.

It kind of amazes me how the Packers seem to consistently put Love in pretty tough situations. Rookie TEs, rookie and 2nd year WRs.

I think a year or 2 from now they’ll be in great shape with their young talented core of pass catchers. But that won’t help Love this year. His inaugural year.

They won't be in great shape if they don't play. Doubs and Watson are significantly better than any veteran WR that they could afford. But Reed and Wicks and the other young receivers would get few or no snaps if a veteran WR were to be brought in. And then the Packers would have no more depth next season when it counts than they do now.

No more Sammy Watkins types!

[Cdragon]

I’m of the opinion that’s it’s time to sign a veteran wr. The Packers are a couple injuries away from being depleted of any experience at the position. The young receivers have gotten a lot of reps in training camp and can still get more in the last 2 preseason games.

As for who is available I have no idea. And maybe it’s slim pickens but I see a rotational player that could come in on 3rd down and add some depth and experience.

It kind of amazes me how the Packers seem to consistently put Love in pretty tough situations. Rookie TEs, rookie and 2nd year WRs.

I think a year or 2 from now they’ll be in great shape with their young talented core of pass catchers. But that won’t help Love this year. His inaugural year.

They won't be in great shape if they don't play. Doubs and Watson are significantly better than any veteran WR that they could afford. But Reed and Wicks and the other young receivers would get few or no snaps if a veteran WR were to be brought in. And then the Packers would have no more depth next season when it counts than they do now.

No more Sammy Watkins types!

This isn't the time to add a receiver. The kids are doing fine and the more targets they get the further along they'll be next year. Trust the system, Love can make it work.

[Foosball]

I’m of the opinion that’s it’s time to sign a veteran wr. The Packers are a couple injuries away from being depleted of any experience at the position. The young receivers have gotten a lot of reps in training camp and can still get more in the last 2 preseason games.

As for who is available I have no idea. And maybe it’s slim pickens but I see a rotational player that could come in on 3rd down and add some depth and experience.

It kind of amazes me how the Packers seem to consistently put Love in pretty tough situations. Rookie TEs, rookie and 2nd year WRs.

I think a year or 2 from now they’ll be in great shape with their young talented core of pass catchers. But that won’t help Love this year. His inaugural year.

They won't be in great shape if they don't play. Doubs and Watson are significantly better than any veteran WR that they could afford. But Reed and Wicks and the other young receivers would get few or no snaps if a veteran WR were to be brought in. And then the Packers would have no more depth next season when it counts than they do now.

No more Sammy Watkins types!

LaFleur chose Sammy because he was familiar with him. Similar to Joe Barry. Something else that’s questionable about LaFleur’s decision making.

The FO is putting Love in an almost no win situation if they have a couple of injuries.

Watson and Doubs were out for numerous games last year. After Toure who do they have? The TEs and Reed are rookies, Melton, Heath, and Wicks are not ready to face starting NFL dbs. They need another year. The other team can double up Toure.

It won’t be pretty and Love will be the one who suffers.

[Pckfn23]

The FO is putting Love in an almost no win situation if they have a couple of injuries.

That's most teams though. You take out the top 2 guys on almost any roster and it gets pretty bleak.

[Foosball]

The FO is putting Love in an almost no win situation if they have a couple of injuries.

That's most teams though. You take out the top 2 guys on almost any roster and it gets pretty bleak.

Yep, and then imagine that their backups have no experience in the NFL. What the Packers are doing is unheard of. And Love will get buried.

[Pckfn23]

I think that's a bit of an overreaction, but it is unusual, yes.

[Labrev]

LaFleur chose Sammy because he was familiar with him. Similar to Joe Barry. Something else that’s questionable about LaFleur’s decision making.

The FO is putting Love in an almost no win situation if they have a couple of injuries.

Watson and Doubs were out for numerous games last year. After Toure who do they have? The TEs are rookies, Melton, Heath, and Wicks are not ready to face starting NFL dbs. They need another year. The other team can double up Toure.

It won’t be pretty and Love will be the one who suffers.

At TE, yes, because we need someone who can play the role we carved out for Davis (Kraft is fine as a backup to it, not as -the guy- there).

But I feel fine about our WR group. Reed, Toure, and Heath all look up to the task of playing extensively. I actually feel like Wicks has been quite impressive in his own right. I doubt we are gonna find anyone available right now who are an upgrade over any of them.

If we are down to Wicks and DuBose, then sure, bring in a guy with some experience, but when you are down to your #6 and #7 guy at *any* position, it is gonna be rough sledding regardless. Again, guys who can just walk in and be WR4 for us aren't just sitting there.

[TheSkeptic]

If Watson and Doubs both miss most of the season, the Packers are screwed. That I agree with.

But there is no veteran WR available that the packers can AFFORD that changes the situation, the Packers are still screwed.

The packers can't sign a very good WR. They don't have the cap room. There is this problem called 57 million in dead cap for the rest of this year. And only 11 million in cap space. For reference, that is what MVS and Lazard are making, former Packers we all remember.

Does anyone seriously think that a MVS/Lazard quality receiver is going to replace Watson or Doubs?