Packers Bengals. First pre season game of the year

[williewasgreat]

Be interesting to see if he keeps that up, in the hopefully the half or more Love plays next game. The receivers were getting off the line and into their routes and Love is mostly popping the first read. Are they trying to show that it is a waste of time to blitz if the ball is coming out so quick? Or are we going to see longer routes and going deeper into the tree next game?

I've heard some people mention the "first read" thing, but in the two more detailed analyses I've seen of his throws, I think the proper terminology is that he is making the correct read first. Not just throwing to the #1 read on a given play.

Come on you can't be serious.

It feels like people can be watching two different games. You don't think the very least the first series was by design?

QBs usually make initial reads before the snap when looking over the defense. One of the reasons motions are run is to try to get the defense to show it's cards. Scripting plays are also to determine defensive tendencies to specific formations and motions. It doesn't mean the QB knows exactly where he will throw before the play begins. Give the guy some credit for crying out loud!

[Labrev]

I saw only one questionable decision, he had Reed crossing open for a first down and he Aaron Rodger'd it deep to Watson, and only a exceptional play from the safety stopped a almost certain TD,

It was second down in a low-stakes game, not fourth down in a must-win game, to say it's just like what Rodgers did. No, even by your own admission (a certain TD if not for the S's great play) it's not. Sorry.

[Cdragon]

I'd throw most of that Cards loss on MM for going all out to beat the Cards a week before in a meaningless game.

I don't think there's any truth to that.

We won a meaningless game 33 - 7, while they pulled Warner after a quarter. It should have been the Matt Flynn show and a white bread, mayo sandwich on D. We showed them too much.

[Yoop]

I saw only one questionable decision, he had Reed crossing open for a first down and he Aaron Rodger'd it deep to Watson, and only a exceptional play from the safety stopped a almost certain TD,

It was second down in a low-stakes game, not fourth down in a must-win game, to say it's just like what Rodgers did. No, even by your own admission (a certain TD if not for the S's great play) it's not. Sorry.

It's what you and others here complained about Rodgers all the time, now the shoe is on the other foot, so what if it was 2nd down, the point is Love over looked a chain mover for the big play option, just like you and others bitched out Rodgers for doing.

and I did actually excuse him, don't remember you ever doing so with Rodgers

[Pckfn23]

Very interesting that many starters played a series or 2 on Friday, in sharp contrast to the last 4 years.

I expected that, and so should you have, we have a lot of very young players that are expected to start on this team, thats why they played, in years past, just as with Cinnci in this game ( they sat most most of there starters) we new who and what our starters where capable of, so why take a chance on injury.

the approach is determined by the experience and skill of the assumed starters.

Aaron Jones took a snap. Preston Jones played a few series. Campbell was out there. Douglas put the pads on. It was not just the young projected starters who played on Friday.

[Labrev]

It's what you and others here complained about Rodgers all the time, now the shoe is on the other foot, so what if it was 2nd down,

.... are you seriously asking "so what" if it was 2nd down, as opposed to 4th down?

Fine, I will explain the obvious and then use common sense for you.

The obvious: if the offense fails to convert on 2nd down, they still have another try to convert, and even a second try if the need to convert is crucial. If the offense fails to convert on 4th down, they LOSE THE BALL.

What should have been Common Sense: because the consequence of failing to convert on 2nd down is minimal, whereas the consequence of failing to covert on 4th down is significant (in the case of the DET game last year, practically determinative of the whole outcome)...

... going for a low-percentage shot play instead of a safe chain-mover on 2nd down is a defensible decision -but- doing the same on 4th down (in a do-or-die situation, a must win game, bad weather, being an aging QB whose deep ball not been up to par) is NOT defensible.

There you go; I hope you enjoyed dying on this hill (in embarrassing fashion).

the point is Love over looked a chain mover for the big play option, just like you and others bitched out Rodgers for doing.

This is so dumb!! Your argument is like saying that if I didn't like MLF's decision to kick in the Tampa playoff game, then I am a hypocrite if I do not harshly criticize every single field goal that my team attempts without exception. I mean it's truly just laughable logic.

[Waldo]

GB played fast.

That was my quick eyeball reaction to the game as well. The team looked fast. Drafting fast guys and getting younger definitely is having an effect.

I really like how well Love throws downfield on the move. That's a big time NFL skill. (I always thought that was the glue that made Russel Wilson's game work, he could throw so well on the move). That skill makes big plays and big plays win games.

[go pak go]

Dan Orlovsky literally on ESPN as I'm typing, though: "Super impressive. Every play the ball went to the right place." Dominique Foxworth: I think the Packers should come a way feeling really good about Love's understanding of the game." (emphasis not added, contained in the quote).

I am advocating that it's too early to know what we have just as strongly as anyone here, btw. But you can prove capabilities and you cannot disprove capabilities.

What Jordan Love has shown, though, is that he is consistently hitting the development targets in terms of comprehension and understanding of his offense, the defensive looks, and where to go with the ball. His college scouting report listed decision-making as one of his biggest weaknesses. This is a change that has developed and is apparent.

So when I see Jordan show capabilities, I am encouraged and lock that in. Ok, he's capable of this. Does that mean he'll apply that capability consistently? Does it mean he will retain that composure and cognitive mastery when he's pressured off schedule? We don't know. Continuing evaluation. Seeing it on film in a small sample size doesn't tell you everything, but it tells you what's possible.

When Love shows that he ISN'T doing things we want to see from him--ball placement, hitting "the layups" at a very high rate, etc.--we can't, logically, conclude that he CAN'T do those things. It's just sound logic. Seeing something is evidence that it is possible. Not seeing something--at this early stage and small sample size--is a lack of evidence; not evidence that it will never be possible.

So yeah, we need a LOT more time to evaluate negatives to learn if they are growing pains or slowly developing, or if they are things he simply can't do. We need to see a LOT more to understand if he has an "it" factor when it's important (he's really never played an important snap of football). We don't have the body of evidence to know if his demonstrated capabilities are consistent and generalizable. And we don't know if what he has demonstrated to date is a closer representation of his floor or of his ceiling as a player.

ALL I'm saying is that his ability to choose the correct receiver and manage and execute the offense has been demonstrated enough to set a floor. For the first time, I'm developing a floor on what Jordan Love is. His floor is now game manager. Before his floor was washout bust. I welcome the update.

Yup.

And this isn't just a 2023 thing. This was also a 2022 thing. He moved the ball well with good decision making in the preseason and his offense was incredibly relaxing to watch in Philly because the ball went to where it needed to go when it needed to go. It was so rhythmatic.

The one development I have seen is Jordan's accuracy was good in 2022 when not on the move. His ball accuracy wasn't there on the broken plays in Philly. In 2023, he does have more inconsistncy in practice reports and that miss in the game was bad.

Yet again, his net throwing in 2023 seems largely improved and the Safety View of Love's throw to Musgrave shows it was a "no looker" which was executed beautifully...except he just overshot Musgrave.

I will say this. There is strong evidence to believe, from the last 12 months, that we have a top potential Franchise QB who can be average in the league with a lot of upside. And there hasn't been anything we have seen that should give us any signficiant reason to worry outside of the WRs and QBs combining for inaccurate balls and dropped balls leaving large missed opportunities on the field.

[Foosball]

Very interesting that many starters played a series or 2 on Friday, in sharp contrast to the last 4 years.

I expected that, and so should you have, we have a lot of very young players that are expected to start on this team, thats why they played, in years past, just as with Cinnci in this game ( they sat most most of there starters) we new who and what our starters where capable of, so why take a chance on injury.

the approach is determined by the experience and skill of the assumed starters.

Aaron Jones took a snap. Preston Jones played a few series. Campbell was out there. Douglas put the pads on. It was not just the young projected starters who played on Friday.

LaFleur has stated that he wants the ones out there when Love is in. So no surprise.

[Pckfn23]

I expected that, and so should you have, we have a lot of very young players that are expected to start on this team, thats why they played, in years past, just as with Cinnci in this game ( they sat most most of there starters) we new who and what our starters where capable of, so why take a chance on injury.

the approach is determined by the experience and skill of the assumed starters.

Aaron Jones took a snap. Preston Jones played a few series. Campbell was out there. Douglas put the pads on. It was not just the young projected starters who played on Friday.

LaFleur has stated that he wants the ones out there when Love is in. So no surprise.

I never said it was surprising, a notable and interesting divergence from the past 4 seasons.

[Foosball]

Aaron Jones took a snap. Preston Jones played a few series. Campbell was out there. Douglas put the pads on. It was not just the young projected starters who played on Friday.

LaFleur has stated that he wants the ones out there when Love is in. So no surprise.

I never said it was surprising, a notable and interesting divergence from the past 4 seasons.

What will be interesting is if they hold out Baktiari in games played on turf in the regular season

[wallyuwl]

LaFleur has stated that he wants the ones out there when Love is in. So no surprise.

I never said it was surprising, a notable and interesting divergence from the past 4 seasons.

What will be interesting is if they hold out Baktiari in games played on turf in the regular season

Won't happen. Even in Detroit. And not all turf is equal.

[bud fox]

I've heard some people mention the "first read" thing, but in the two more detailed analyses I've seen of his throws, I think the proper terminology is that he is making the correct read first. Not just throwing to the #1 read on a given play.

Come on you can't be serious.

It feels like people can be watching two different games. You don't think the very least the first series was by design?

QBs usually make initial reads before the snap when looking over the defense. One of the reasons motions are run is to try to get the defense to show it's cards. Scripting plays are also to determine defensive tendencies to specific formations and motions. It doesn't mean the QB knows exactly where he will throw before the play begins. Give the guy some credit for crying out loud!

The discussion was about this 2.4 second release time.

People need to be serious.

[Pckfn23]

LaFleur has stated that he wants the ones out there when Love is in. So no surprise.

I never said it was surprising, a notable and interesting divergence from the past 4 seasons.

What will be interesting is if they hold out Baktiari in games played on turf in the regular season

We would know by Game 2, but I highly doubt it.

[Cdragon]

LaFleur has stated that he wants the ones out there when Love is in. So no surprise.

I never said it was surprising, a notable and interesting divergence from the past 4 seasons.

What will be interesting is if they hold out Baktiari in games played on turf in the regular season

If you can play at Soldier Field you can play on rocks and rattlers.

[AmishMafia]

I saw only one questionable decision, he had Reed crossing open for a first down and he Aaron Rodger'd it deep to Watson, and only a exceptional play from the safety stopped a almost certain TD,

It was second down in a low-stakes game, not fourth down in a must-win game, to say it's just like what Rodgers did. No, even by your own admission (a certain TD if not for the S's great play) it's not. Sorry.

It's what you and others here complained about Rodgers all the time, now the shoe is on the other foot, so what if it was 2nd down, the point is Love over looked a chain mover for the big play option, just like you and others bitched out Rodgers for doing.

and I did actually excuse him, don't remember you ever doing so with Rodgers

Yeah, until we draft a WR in the first round, you will never be able to criticize a GB QB. Because the excuse you used for AR is valid for Love. Never mind that even the 5th round rookie was able to make more use of rookie WRs in 3/4s of the first preseason game than Rodgers over the last how many years (except Watson).

To add to the scenario though, is Love would need to look at the wide open receiver and then chuck it out of bounds. You know, like this:

[CWIMM]

You can say "it's too early to judge" and also say "in the limited snaps Jordan received, his reads were correct and his accuracy was good for the exception of one throw"

As mentioned above Love played well against the Bengals. That's all you can ask for at this point. But it doesn't mean a whole lot for the regular season though.

What Jordan Love has shown, though, is that he is consistently hitting the development targets in terms of comprehension and understanding of his offense, the defensive looks, and where to go with the ball. His college scouting report listed decision-making as one of his biggest weaknesses. This is a change that has developed and is apparent.

Love hasn't faced any defensive looks he will see in the regular season for the most part though. Therefore we still don't have any idea if his decision making has truly improved.

We won a meaningless game 33 - 7, while they pulled Warner after a quarter. It should have been the Matt Flynn show and a white bread, mayo sandwich on D. We showed them too much.

The offense scored 45 points in the playoff game, therefore Rodgers playing them a week earlier didn't negatively affect their performance. It's pure speculation the defense would have played any better if they rested their starters in week 17.

Aaron Jones took a snap. Preston Jones played a few series. Campbell was out there. Douglas put the pads on. It was not just the young projected starters who played on Friday.

Just for the record, Preston, Campbell and Douglas each played only three snaps. While it's true that starters played more than in past seasons that was to be expected this year.

Yeah, until we draft a WR in the first round, you will never be able to criticize a GB QB. Because the excuse you used for AR is valid for Love. Never mind that even the 5th round rookie was able to make more use of rookie WRs in 3/4s of the first preseason game than Rodgers over the last how many years (except Watson).

It's a myth that Rodgers hasn't thrown to rookie receivers. Since MLF took over in 2019, the Packers rank 17th in the league in receptions by rookies, 20th in receiving yards and tied for second in touchdowns. That's despite the team not drafting a receiver in the first two years and only adding a bust in Amari Rodgers in 2021.

[YoHoChecko]

What Jordan Love has shown, though, is that he is consistently hitting the development targets in terms of comprehension and understanding of his offense, the defensive looks, and where to go with the ball. His college scouting report listed decision-making as one of his biggest weaknesses. This is a change that has developed and is apparent.

Love hasn't faced any defensive looks he will see in the regular season for the most part though. Therefore we still don't have any idea if his decision making has truly improved.

We've watched Jordan Love play in the preseason for a couple years. We've also had media reporting from practice for 3 years.

If you can't say "Jordan Love's decision making has improved," I again say you are willfully ignoring all evidence under the guise of stating the obvious: no one knows or can know what we have in him yet--something everyone in this conversation has conceded.

But if you think we need to be sure before we comment our observations, let's just block users from discussing the QB until next offseason. OORRR we can have conversations about the things we observe and read--both pro and con--along the journey without constantly being reminded that "it's too early to know." We can just stipulate up front, for the masses: yeah, even next offseason, Packers fans and national media will still be debating whether or not this guy is our next guy, and/or to what extent. We won't know for quite some time. That doesn't mean it's wasteful to discuss him until then.

[CWIMM]

We've watched Jordan Love play in the preseason for a couple years. We've also had media reporting from practice for 3 years.

If you can't say "Jordan Love's decision making has improved," I again say you are willfully ignoring all evidence under the guise of stating the obvious: no one knows or can know what we have in him yet--something everyone in this conversation has conceded.

But if you think we need to be sure before we comment our observations, let's just block users from discussing the QB until next offseason. OORRR we can have conversations about the things we observe and read--both pro and con--along the journey without constantly being reminded that "it's too early to know." We can just stipulate up front, for the masses: yeah, even next offseason, Packers fans and national media will still be debating whether or not this guy is our next guy, and/or to what extent. We won't know for quite some time. That doesn't mean it's wasteful to discuss him until then.

Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely fine to discuss about Love.

I don't put a whole lot of stock into preseason games against a backup defense or reports from practice though. While it's encouraging that he has looked good in those situations that doesn't mean he will excel in games that matter. In addition I'm convinced that there's no way of knowing that his decision making has improved while he's not facing opponents that game plan for him.

On the other hand I believe it will be possible to evaluate that after only a few regular season games. That doesn't mean we will know how his career will play out but we can make an educated guess on which direction it's heading at that point.

[TheSkeptic]

Yeah, until we draft a WR in the first round, you will never be able to criticize a GB QB. Because the excuse you used for AR is valid for Love. Never mind that even the 5th round rookie was able to make more use of rookie WRs in 3/4s of the first preseason game than Rodgers over the last how many years (except Watson).

I suspect that if there were a draft do-over, Jennings, Jordy and Adams would have been taken in the 1st round.

And now Watson, plus probably Reed and Musgrave.

Both Rodgers and now Love have had their share of 1st-round-quality receivers.