Your Morning Coffee Rodgers Discussion

[Yoop]

I give a shout out to AR for having the never give up mind set, but this will be harder to come back from then I think anything he's ever faced before, see what he has to say in 8 months if he has slow progress, everyone says I'll be back right after the injury.

Sad to see the great ones go out this way, or keep playing after the legs are gone and they become almost unrecognizable from the player they once where.

[Labrev]

When I heard it was an Achilles, I figured he was done, no matter how badly he wants to return to the game.

But thinking about it more, there may be a path for him to come back. For one thing, it's his left Achilles that got torn, so not his planting leg. Second, he plays a position that is not as reliant on athleticism as the others, but one where intelligence can offset many other deficiencies.

I think a comeback is doable. Rodgers has the IQ. The problem is a mulish refusal to change the way he plays the game. This injury needs to be a wake up call, or any return will be short-lived.

(And this is why I am so glad he is not my team's problem anymore).

[Yoop]

When I heard it was an Achilles, I figured he was done, no matter how badly he wants to return to the game.

But thinking about it more, there may be a path for him to come back. For one thing, it's his left Achilles that got torn, so not his planting leg. Second, he plays a position that is not as reliant on athleticism as the others, but one where intelligence can offset many other deficiencies.

I think a comeback is doable. Rodgers has the IQ. The problem is a mulish refusal to change the way he plays the game. This injury needs to be a wake up call, or any return will be short-lived.

(And this is why I am so glad he is not my team's problem anymore).

I think I read the same article about the plant foot, and pocket passer thing, thing is, as we all know, Rodgers has a very hard time sticking to the plan, it's akin to teaching a old dog, puppy tricks, time in tenure has it's draw backs, muscle memory is much harder to break when ya get older.

Lafleur was capable of the improbable, 2019 did show that Rodgers could adjust under the right guy, even then though Matt had to allow Rodgers carte blanc when it came to pre snap adjustments and he still fled the pocket, extended some plays, why because thats who he is and has always been.

some didn't like that about him, some thought he should be more robotic and just stick to called plays, to me thats what made him one of the best QB's to ever play, that kind of stuff is what I'll miss the most.

[TheSkeptic]

1. players do not set there dollar value, there agents do, player simply play, and there production is the bargaining chip there agent uses.
2. the winningest teams tend to be big play producers with stingy defenses, that means teams need a offense that can accomplish that, and that very very seldom happens on a run first team, so ya need that QB.

we went 2 decades trying it your way with 1 (one ) winning season because we couldn't replace Bart Starr, I never want to go back to that again.

The Packers went 2 decades because they traded for John Hadl. And because they could not replace Jim Taylor and Paul Hornung and Ray and Willie Wood and Herb Adderley and Willie Davis. And because they could not replace the 5 best Olinemen in the game. Not to mention Vince.

I never said that the Packers should be a run first team. I said that the Packers should invest in linemen who can block for both pass and run and I specifically talked about a well protected QB outperforming a more talented QB who is constantly running for his life.

Plus, I seem to recall you complaining for a very long time about the Packers not giving Rodgers the weapons he needed. But you never explained how they could do that while fielding a decent defense and paying whatever Rodgers ordered.

[Labrev]

some didn't like that about him, some thought he should be more robotic and just stick to called plays,/

If it is alleged that I am one of the "some" who said this, let me say for the record: this was not my position, not unqualified.

To the extent I wanted him to move away from scrambling around and such, it was qualified by age, i.e. I wanted to see him move away from it around his mid-to-late 30s. I never took issue with him playing that way in his 20s or early 30s.

And I will have the exact same attitude with Love. He should use his legs now while he is young, even early 30s, but by mid-30s, he as all QBs needs to move away from winning on superior athletic talent and relearn to play by winning on their brains and vet savvy.

[Yoop]

1. players do not set there dollar value, there agents do, player simply play, and there production is the bargaining chip there agent uses.
2. the winningest teams tend to be big play producers with stingy defenses, that means teams need a offense that can accomplish that, and that very very seldom happens on a run first team, so ya need that QB.

we went 2 decades trying it your way with 1 (one ) winning season because we couldn't replace Bart Starr, I never want to go back to that again.

The Packers went 2 decades because they traded for John Hadl. And because they could not replace Jim Taylor and Paul Hornung and Ray and Willie Wood and Herb Adderley and Willie Davis. And because they could not replace the 5 best Olinemen in the game. Not to mention Vince.

I never said that the Packers should be a run first team. I said that the Packers should invest in linemen who can block for both pass and run and I specifically talked about a well protected QB outperforming a more talented QB who is constantly running for his life.

Plus, I seem to recall you complaining for a very long time about the Packers not giving Rodgers the weapons he needed. But you never explained how they could do that while fielding a decent defense and paying whatever Rodgers ordered.

well the trade for Hadl has nothing to do with missing on the other 27 QB's that didn't pan out, and we did replace Taylor and Hornung, same to a degree with all the rest, this has nothing to do with OL or any other facet of football, QB is by far (not even close) the very most important position in this game, and the main reason we lost for 2 decades, and next year (hopefully) Love is worth the millions we have to pay him

when have we not been dedicated to having a very good OL, and we spent a ton on mediocre defense the last 10 years, it is finally looking better, however most of defense is bran new the last 4 years, we could have certainly switched that plan a bit and used a 2nd on a WR a couple years, do I need to supply a list of the lousy jag DT's that Ted took.

LVN is ready to rock, why did Gary take two years? we know why, he couldn't beat out Z and Preston, LVN is going to bench Preston as soon as Gary can play more, we could have used that 12 slot on a player that would have helped us sooner, thats all I'am saying about that

and the quip about Rodgers running for his life is so over the top, and if Love is not able to be a big chunk, big play QB, extend a play, maneuver the pocket then we made another poor pick, because that is what is required now to win in this league, however, I think Love can do that stuff, I think Love has been groomed to be a lot like Rodgers.

[Labrev]

I think Love has been groomed to be a lot like Rodgers.

Hardly. Love threw to a RB over the middle to convert on 4th down rather than forcing it to WR1.

[Yoop]

some didn't like that about him, some thought he should be more robotic and just stick to called plays,/

If it is alleged that I am one of the "some" who said this, let me say for the record: this was not my position, not unqualified.

To the extent I wanted him to move away from scrambling around and such, it was qualified by age, i.e. I wanted to see him move away from it around his mid-to-late 30s. I never took issue with him playing that way in his 20s or early 30s.

And I will have the exact same attitude with Love. He should use his legs now while he is young, even early 30s, but by mid-30s, he as all QBs needs to move away from winning on superior athletic talent and relearn to play by winning on their brains and vet savvy.

ahhhhhh, it just doesn't work that way for all players, even tenured pocket passers have to adjust to the talent they have to work with.

go back and watch early Rodgers, he scrambled, but less, he back then had receivers that cleared on schedule ( yes on schedule back then was a 4.count? it wasn't just the young legs, it was very good blocking, trust in that blocking and open receivers.

the impetus to continue that was to keep a fresh group of quality receivers, a decent blocking OL, maybe add some running threat, what didn't work was spending every high draft pick on defense, that has always been my complaint.

go look at the end of most QB careers, they hardly change there style of play at all, why is it we demand that of Rodgers, they may change some, but the nucleus, there trade mark stuff, nope, not much at all.

we here about the very few who under new coaching reinvent themselves, but the number is so small it's hardly worth the mention, Rich Gannon, and a few others did the rover jump over routine. stubborn guy's like Rodgers, good luck.

[Yoop]

I think Love has been groomed to be a lot like Rodgers.

Hardly. Love threw to a RB over the middle to convert on 4th down rather than forcing it to WR1.

haha, like A Rod has never thrown over the middle to a RB

[Labrev]

I think Love has been groomed to be a lot like Rodgers.

Hardly. Love threw to a RB over the middle to convert on 4th down rather than forcing it to WR1.

haha, like A Rod has never thrown over the middle to a RB

If he never did, you'd just be like "good, those are boring!!"

[Pckfn23]

Wouldn't be a thread without pointlessly bringing up Gary...

[Yoop]

Hardly. Love threw to a RB over the middle to convert on 4th down rather than forcing it to WR1.

haha, like A Rod has never thrown over the middle to a RB

If he never did, you'd just be like "good, those are boring!!"

you better hum baby, I admit, I'am like a 3 needle a day heroin addict when it comes to big play offense, I just can't get enough of 40 yrd pass plays

[YoHoChecko]

Surgery already complete

[wallyuwl]

Surgery already complete

I heard on tv this afternoon it wasn't scheduled yet

[YoHoChecko]

I heard on tv this afternoon it wasn't scheduled yet

Sounds like your tv lied to you. Re-evaluate your sources

[wallyuwl]

I heard on tv this afternoon it wasn't scheduled yet

Sounds like your tv lied to you. Re-evaluate your sources

It was BSPN (Disney), so you're right

[dsr]

I’m spending a little time contemplating why the artificial turf might be more likely to cause any injury more than a grass turf.

Regarding Rodgers’ specific injury, in looking at the video, what I see is that he planted that leg into the artificial turf in a way that his toes were more elevated, relative to his ankle/heel than usual. (This might actually be similar to how a sprinter comes out of the blocks as the start of a foot race.) As he was trying to push off to avoid the sack, that would’ve put a LOT of stress on the Achilles Tendon. And that’s not even counting whatever turn/torque he also put into it. The way that I see the artificial turf making a difference, compared to grass, is that artificial turf only has as much give as that half inch (whatever the thickness of the turf is) can afford. Below that is concrete with no give at all. If he had done the same move on grass, the grass and soil both would’ve allowed some give; certainly more than the carpet/concrete.

Are there any other considerations?

I know Bahk69 speaks out about this for a variety of injuries, not merely Achille’s problems.

I’d appreciate any insider feedback about this.

I think that another part of it is what happens when your foot is planted and more force than it can handle is exerted on it, one of three things is likely to happen:

1. The foot/leg gives way and is injured.
2. The foot slides across the surface and escapes.
3. The surface itself gives way.

Number 2 is less likely to happen on grass, and number 3 can only happen on grass. Therefore when a likely injury-causing accident happens, there are ways the injury might not happen on grass where it will happen on astroturf.

[musclestang]

When the forces get to great, something’s gotta give. Turn doesn’t really give. And it over stresses joints all over the place all the time. Just building towards that big injury

[YoHoChecko]

Sorry if this has been covered, but the fact that right after the game, NFL channel was showing some “Best of Rodgers” (scheduled for the big debut, not because he got hurt) and it was the 2014 divisional round of the playoffs and Aikman was talking about how he’d been struggling with a left calf strain.

We know he had calf strains again in his time with us.

And he missed time this offseason with both calves getting strained, more recently the left one.

Is this long history of straining his left calf a contributing factor to the ultimate Achilles tear at the bottom? Is it sort of a red flag that something like that might occur? Is it entirely unrelated?

Just wondering. Doesn’t really make any point

[Yoop]

teams would be crazy not to cave and just switch to grass, the league just spent 18 billion in law suits over concussion protocol, and changing a field from turf to grass is only 800,000, times the 14 teams who still have turf, it comes to the cost of annual pay for a stud RB, or about what it would cost us to acquire Jonathan Taylor.

just makes monetary sense to do it, more and more studies are showing that grass is safer for players then turf, so litigation is on the side for the players.

the argument that some players like it, wont over rule the cost of a class action lawsuit,