Your Morning Coffee Rodgers Discussion

[Labrev]

Politics notwithstanding, I was a proponent of signing Kap in the past for teams that needed QB help (I was for it for GB the season Rodgers was out for the year with injury).

The guy is 35 now, though. And yes, for a guy like Kap who relied in a big way on the threat of his legs, and not being a guy known for having the eyes to carve up a defense (not to mention, being out of practice doing that for several years now)... 35 is too old. That ship has sailed now.

[musclestang]

I think people have become very loose with some of their definitions these days. No wonder we have so many victims

That is the literal definition of a slave. Someone who cannot quit and go work somewhere else in their profession is a slave. Someone who has limited or no say in their pay or working conditions is a slave. A contract does not negate slavery if the worker has no practical alternative to signing that contract, whether it is a draftee into the NFL or the army. A draftee into the army because a nation wants to pay that soldier 10% of what the job should pay to get people to willingly join, makes that soldier a slave. A draftee into the NFL who is forced to play on an unsafe field rather than grass makes that player a slave, regardless of how much that player is paid. And if a NFL player is traded he is definitely a slave, you cannot buy and sell free human beings, not a 5 year old Mexican child on the border and not a multi-millionaire NFL player.

Got news for you, my friend, most of us ARE victims. If you or I work long and hard and someone else takes an unfair percentage of our pay (taxes), then we are slaves to the government and victims of an overly powerful government. If a monopoly is legalized by government, everyone who suffers economically because of that government enforced monopoly is a victim of it. But as you suggest, there are many shades of victimization and slavery and no one in the USA other than that little kid in a cage in a government bureaucrat's or politician's basement in DC is a 100% slave or a 100% victim.

No matter how you look at it, trading Rodgers to anywhere was wrong. The AFL should be a separate league and he should have been able to leave and the Packers should have had to fire him if they no longer wanted him. Yes, there are contracts and a freely negotiated contract must be enforced, but NFL contracts are not freely negotiated because there are no realistic alternatives to the NFL due to government interference. The same applies to Kaepernick and the fact that he is a jerk is not relevant.

because there isn't a ready made league for players to jump and make the same wage doesn't mean they are a slave. Not at all. If you want to have a conversation about monopolies or whatever, fine, but it has nothing to do with slavery. unless you want to be very, very loose with the definition.

When there are people there rounding them up and dragging them back to their slave masters you might have a point. When owners can freely take their wives because they have a fancy, you might have a point. When they can prevent you from learning to read or gaining education, you might have a point. When they can take and sell their children to split up families to impose their power, you might have a point. when they aren't free to simply walk away and do something else because they want to, you might have a point.

Until then, our definitions and realities are so far apart, there really isn't much point in discussing it further.

[dsr]

I think people have become very loose with some of their definitions these days. No wonder we have so many victims

That is the literal definition of a slave. Someone who cannot quit and go work somewhere else in their profession is a slave. Someone who has limited or no say in their pay or working conditions is a slave. A contract does not negate slavery if the worker has no practical alternative to signing that contract, whether it is a draftee into the NFL or the army. A draftee into the army because a nation wants to pay that soldier 10% of what the job should pay to get people to willingly join, makes that soldier a slave. A draftee into the NFL who is forced to play on an unsafe field rather than grass makes that player a slave, regardless of how much that player is paid. And if a NFL player is traded he is definitely a slave, you cannot buy and sell free human beings, not a 5 year old Mexican child on the border and not a multi-millionaire NFL player.

Got news for you, my friend, most of us ARE victims. If you or I work long and hard and someone else takes an unfair percentage of our pay (taxes), then we are slaves to the government and victims of an overly powerful government. If a monopoly is legalized by government, everyone who suffers economically because of that government enforced monopoly is a victim of it. But as you suggest, there are many shades of victimization and slavery and no one in the USA other than that little kid in a cage in a government bureaucrat's or politician's basement in DC is a 100% slave or a 100% victim.

No matter how you look at it, trading Rodgers to anywhere was wrong. The AFL should be a separate league and he should have been able to leave and the Packers should have had to fire him if they no longer wanted him. Yes, there are contracts and a freely negotiated contract must be enforced, but NFL contracts are not freely negotiated because there are no realistic alternatives to the NFL due to government interference. The same applies to Kaepernick and the fact that he is a jerk is not relevant.

If Aaron Rodgers is a slave, then why is there any controversy about slavery? Slavery isn't a problem. If all that slavery is, is that you have to do as your employer tells you or get a different job - then slavery is no issue.

Would it perhaps help if we had different degrees of slavery? If perhaps we agreed that Aaron Rodgers is a (even slightly) better-off slave than the poor soul sold from Africa in 1800 whose life was at the mercy (or otherwise) of his owner?

[TheSkeptic]

Would it perhaps help if we had different degrees of slavery? If perhaps we agreed that Aaron Rodgers is a (even slightly) better-off slave than the poor soul sold from Africa in 1800 whose life was at the mercy (or otherwise) of his owner?

Absolutely it would help if we had different words for different degrees. Even in the old classic early 1800's there were field slaves who were bought and sold down the river without a thought as to their humanity. And there were house slaves who were nannies to the children of the plantation owner and often treated as extended family.

But I would also like to mention modern day slavery. In Ukraine, today, 16 year old boys and 60 year old men are being kidnapped off the street and sent to a week of training in which they get to fire a rifle with 4 bullets. A few days later they are sent to the front and a few days after that they are rotting in a ditch. That is slavery too. And every American alive today is a slaveowner of those kids and old men. Their lives are our property, they live and die for our benefit, against their will.

One could make the case that Rodgers sold himself for money he did not need and now has seriously damaged his body.

[Yoop]

I think people have become very loose with some of their definitions these days. No wonder we have so many victims

That is the literal definition of a slave. Someone who cannot quit and go work somewhere else in their profession is a slave. Someone who has limited or no say in their pay or working conditions is a slave. A contract does not negate slavery if the worker has no practical alternative to signing that contract, whether it is a draftee into the NFL or the army. A draftee into the army because a nation wants to pay that soldier 10% of what the job should pay to get people to willingly join, makes that soldier a slave. A draftee into the NFL who is forced to play on an unsafe field rather than grass makes that player a slave, regardless of how much that player is paid. And if a NFL player is traded he is definitely a slave, you cannot buy and sell free human beings, not a 5 year old Mexican child on the border and not a multi-millionaire NFL player.

Got news for you, my friend, most of us ARE victims. If you or I work long and hard and someone else takes an unfair percentage of our pay (taxes), then we are slaves to the government and victims of an overly powerful government. If a monopoly is legalized by government, everyone who suffers economically because of that government enforced monopoly is a victim of it. But as you suggest, there are many shades of victimization and slavery and no one in the USA other than that little kid in a cage in a government bureaucrat's or politician's basement in DC is a 100% slave or a 100% victim.

No matter how you look at it, trading Rodgers to anywhere was wrong. The AFL should be a separate league and he should have been able to leave and the Packers should have had to fire him if they no longer wanted him. Yes, there are contracts and a freely negotiated contract must be enforced, but NFL contracts are not freely negotiated because there are no realistic alternatives to the NFL due to government interference. The same applies to Kaepernick and the fact that he is a jerk is not relevant.

there are times when words fall short of describing inner thought

[Yoop]

Would it perhaps help if we had different degrees of slavery? If perhaps we agreed that Aaron Rodgers is a (even slightly) better-off slave than the poor soul sold from Africa in 1800 whose life was at the mercy (or otherwise) of his owner?

Absolutely it would help if we had different words for different degrees. Even in the old classic early 1800's there were field slaves who were bought and sold down the river without a thought as to their humanity. And there were house slaves who were nannies to the children of the plantation owner and often treated as extended family.

But I would also like to mention modern day slavery. In Ukraine, today, 16 year old boys and 60 year old men are being kidnapped off the street and sent to a week of training in which they get to fire a rifle with 4 bullets. A few days later they are sent to the front and a few days after that they are rotting in a ditch. That is slavery too. And every American alive today is a slaveowner of those kids and old men. Their lives are our property, they live and die for our benefit, against their will.

One could make the case that Rodgers sold himself for money he did not need and now has seriously damaged his body.

they are actually fighting for there country, was my father a slave for fighting against Hitler? your really pushing this envelope Skeptic, and this room isn't the place to discuss it either, but you are sooooo wrong.

[Yoop]

the only reference to Slavery that Kaep was referring to imho was the draft, in that the selection process mimicked the plantation owner going to market to BUY slaves.

[Pckfn23]

Side note: The Mod Team asks that you limit comments to those that impact football and save the political aspect of things for the Round Table sub-forum. Yes, there is a gray area. Please use good judgment.

Side bet from now on will be over/under 24 hours before this "warning" is ignored. The under wins this round!

[Yoop]

Side note: The Mod Team asks that you limit comments to those that impact football and save the political aspect of things for the Round Table sub-forum. Yes, there is a gray area. Please use good judgment.

Side bet from now on will be over/under 24 hours before this "warning" is ignored. The under wins this round!

seriously who thought it was even possible in the first place, why even bring it to this forum room, this was fodder for the Round table from the start,
the football part of this has been hashed to death for years, it brings zero interest

[Scott4Pack]

I think people have become very loose with some of their definitions these days. No wonder we have so many victims

That is the literal definition of a slave. Someone who cannot quit and go work somewhere else in their profession is a slave. Someone who has limited or no say in their pay or working conditions is a slave. A contract does not negate slavery if the worker has no practical alternative to signing that contract, whether it is a draftee into the NFL or the army. A draftee into the army because a nation wants to pay that soldier 10% of what the job should pay to get people to willingly join, makes that soldier a slave. A draftee into the NFL who is forced to play on an unsafe field rather than grass makes that player a slave, regardless of how much that player is paid. And if a NFL player is traded he is definitely a slave, you cannot buy and sell free human beings, not a 5 year old Mexican child on the border and not a multi-millionaire NFL player.

Got news for you, my friend, most of us ARE victims. If you or I work long and hard and someone else takes an unfair percentage of our pay (taxes), then we are slaves to the government and victims of an overly powerful government. If a monopoly is legalized by government, everyone who suffers economically because of that government enforced monopoly is a victim of it. But as you suggest, there are many shades of victimization and slavery and no one in the USA other than that little kid in a cage in a government bureaucrat's or politician's basement in DC is a 100% slave or a 100% victim.

No matter how you look at it, trading Rodgers to anywhere was wrong. The AFL should be a separate league and he should have been able to leave and the Packers should have had to fire him if they no longer wanted him. Yes, there are contracts and a freely negotiated contract must be enforced, but NFL contracts are not freely negotiated because there are no realistic alternatives to the NFL due to government interference. The same applies to Kaepernick and the fact that he is a jerk is not relevant.

Slave: a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to be their property.

That is a legit definition of slavery.

Every NFL player is not a slave. Every coach and scout is not a slave. Zero of them are owned by any other person.

If you want to talk about being a victim, that's fine. But that is a different conversation than slavery.

I was a soldier for six years. I enlisted for four years and then extended for two more. Was I a slave? No. Would I have preferred a different career path at that time? Maybe. But I CHOSE that path of the Army for that period of time. I didn't need to CHOOSE that path or that employer (not Master, employer). But I did.

Every NFL player, coach, scout, admin person CHOOSES to serve in that employment for a period of time. Sometimes, the persons are released because they no longer have the talent, health conditions prevent them from adequate performance, or they simply are not a good mix with the organization. That is never about slavery. Never.

Same for every place of legal employment in the USA. That doesn't mean that there are some poor examples of how people are treated. It just means that people in this country always have choices. (Also, I am not ignorant of real slavery that is occurring in some places in the USA today. That is another subject as well.)

If CK or any other player wants to call players "slaves" then he is not dealing with reality. He is manipulating his audience so that he can advance an idea that he supports. That is reality. And that is the main reason he gets no offers to come and compete on a team for an employer. If you or I acted the same way, we would also be treated the same way.

If you read this far, I truly appreciate it and welcome further feedback.

[APB]

Side note: The Mod Team asks that you limit comments to those that impact football and save the political aspect of things for the Round Table sub-forum. Yes, there is a gray area. Please use good judgment.

Side bet from now on will be over/under 24 hours before this "warning" is ignored. The under wins this round!

Yeah, reel it back in folks.

I'll be outright deleting posts (not moving them, mind you) that continue down this non-football related path in this sub-forum. Feel free to continue the current "definition of a slave" tangent in the Roundtable sub-forum.

seriously who thought it was even possible in the first place, why even bring it to this forum room, this was fodder for the Round table from the start

To your first question: I did.

To your second question: because I gave this group the benefit of doubt of being able to have a reasonable football conversation that included political aspects. So far, the conversation has been reasonable, albeit too politically focused hence the statement at the beginning of this post.

To your third statement: you're entitled to your opinion. It was not shared unilaterally.

[Pugger]

I think people have become very loose with some of their definitions these days. No wonder we have so many victims

That is the literal definition of a slave. Someone who cannot quit and go work somewhere else in their profession is a slave. Someone who has limited or no say in their pay or working conditions is a slave. A contract does not negate slavery if the worker has no practical alternative to signing that contract, whether it is a draftee into the NFL or the army. A draftee into the army because a nation wants to pay that soldier 10% of what the job should pay to get people to willingly join, makes that soldier a slave. A draftee into the NFL who is forced to play on an unsafe field rather than grass makes that player a slave, regardless of how much that player is paid. And if a NFL player is traded he is definitely a slave, you cannot buy and sell free human beings, not a 5 year old Mexican child on the border and not a multi-millionaire NFL player.

Got news for you, my friend, most of us ARE victims. If you or I work long and hard and someone else takes an unfair percentage of our pay (taxes), then we are slaves to the government and victims of an overly powerful government. If a monopoly is legalized by government, everyone who suffers economically because of that government enforced monopoly is a victim of it. But as you suggest, there are many shades of victimization and slavery and no one in the USA other than that little kid in a cage in a government bureaucrat's or politician's basement in DC is a 100% slave or a 100% victim.

No matter how you look at it, trading Rodgers to anywhere was wrong. The AFL should be a separate league and he should have been able to leave and the Packers should have had to fire him if they no longer wanted him. Yes, there are contracts and a freely negotiated contract must be enforced, but NFL contracts are not freely negotiated because there are no realistic alternatives to the NFL due to government interference. The same applies to Kaepernick and the fact that he is a jerk is not relevant.

Slave: a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to be their property.

That is a legit definition of slavery.

Every NFL player is not a slave. Every coach and scout is not a slave. Zero of them are owned by any other person.

If you want to talk about being a victim, that's fine. But that is a different conversation than slavery.

I was a soldier for six years. I enlisted for four years and then extended for two more. Was I a slave? No. Would I have preferred a different career path at that time? Maybe. But I CHOSE that path of the Army for that period of time. I didn't need to CHOOSE that path or that employer (not Master, employer). But I did.

Every NFL player, coach, scout, admin person CHOOSES to serve in that employment for a period of time. Sometimes, the persons are released because they no longer have the talent, health conditions prevent them from adequate performance, or they simply are not a good mix with the organization. That is never about slavery. Never.

Same for every place of legal employment in the USA. That doesn't mean that there are some poor examples of how people are treated. It just means that people in this country always have choices. (Also, I am not ignorant of real slavery that is occurring in some places in the USA today. That is another subject as well.)

If CK or any other player wants to call players "slaves" then he is not dealing with reality. He is manipulating his audience so that he can advance an idea that he supports. That is reality. And that is the main reason he gets no offers to come and compete on a team for an employer. If you or I acted the same way, we would also be treated the same way.

If you read this far, I truly appreciate it and welcome further feedback.

Thank you for your service.

[Yoop]

Side note: The Mod Team asks that you limit comments to those that impact football and save the political aspect of things for the Round Table sub-forum. Yes, there is a gray area. Please use good judgment.

Side bet from now on will be over/under 24 hours before this "warning" is ignored. The under wins this round!

Yeah, reel it back in folks.

I'll be outright deleting posts (not moving them, mind you) that continue down this non-football related path in this sub-forum. Feel free to continue the current "definition of a slave" tangent in the Roundtable sub-forum.

seriously who thought it was even possible in the first place, why even bring it to this forum room, this was fodder for the Round table from the start

To your first question: I did.

To your second question: because I gave this group the benefit of doubt of being able to have a reasonable football conversation that included political aspects. So far, the conversation has been reasonable, albeit too politically focused hence the statement at the beginning of this post.

To your third statement: you're entitled to your opinion. It was not shared unilaterally.

ya know why it wasn't shared unilaterally? because most of the members here thought honoring a song was more important then human rights, thats it.

and how can anyone have a reasonable (football) conversation concerning Kaepernick, first he hasn't played in 6 years and it's debatable just how good he was back then, the NFL stands for non forgiveness league ( I made that up) meaning players tend to get worse as they age, in reality it's basically impossible to talk about just football when talking about Kaepernick because the political part is the main driver for his absence.

[Pckfn23]

Kaep was what Justin Fields is. He's day in the NFL was done almost exclusively because of his lack of QB talent.

[Yoop]

run that foolishness by us again after Fields wins a SB or !@#$ pounds us to death, what ruined Kaepernick was Donald trump

[musclestang]

zero need for the politics. Kaep was a one read and run QB. Once teams figured that out he was basically any number of Bears QB's LOL. Fields, Mitch, Rex...

His lack of QB acumen and now 7 years removed from the game the only part of his game that was good, has long since left him I'm sure. He doesn't move now, like he did then.

[wallyuwl]

I feel bad for our military, being force injected with all kinds of stuff. The employer isn't taking the risk.

[Yoop]

zero need for the politics. Kaep was a one read and run QB. Once teams figured that out he was basically any number of Bears QB's LOL. Fields, Mitch, Rex...

His lack of QB acumen and now 7 years removed from the game the only part of his game that was good, has long since left him I'm sure. He doesn't move now, like he did then.

politics, no politics, it's what happened
Kaep was mostly a 60% completion passer, to say he was a 1 reader I think is cutting the guy short, his only two complete seasons he threw for over 3000 yrds, Kaep was a very dangerous QB with all cylinders firing and tuned us up, but now I think he's all smoke and mirrors, I respect him for still trying though.

[Pckfn23]

run that foolishness by us again after Fields wins a SB or !@#$ pounds us to death, what ruined Kaepernick was Donald trump

I'll bet you anything you want Justin Fields never sniffs a super bowl let alone win one.

[Yoop]

run that foolishness by us again after Fields wins a SB or !@#$ pounds us to death, what ruined Kaepernick was Donald trump

I'll bet you anything you want Justin Fields never sniffs a super bowl let alone win one.

then why blindly label Kaep a clone of Fields, which seems like what you where saying, really baffling how you and others discount a QB that kicked our butts. and he was still able to be a dang good starting QB when the league black balled him, not just my opinion, but the opinion of most football people, even owners, but they where not about to cross the line with agent orange, just disgusting.