Ugh.
Ugly game on offense.
There’s work to do during the bye and it starts with MLF. He’s gotta be better. He does better, Love and the entire offense do better.
That’s not to say Love, the receivers, the TEs, and the O-Line don’t need to improve - they do - but unless MLF gets his act together, they’re just spinning wheels.
So let’s hear it.
Week 5 Post-Game: Raiders 17 Packers 13
Moderators: NCF, salmar80, BF004, APB, Packfntk
-
lupedafiasco
- Reactions:
- Posts: 5332
- Joined: 24 Mar 2020 17:17
Said it three years ago that I wasn’t sure about LaFleur. Basically confirmed it 2 years ago. Repeated it last season. LaFleur is a good offensive mind. He’s a terrible head coach. He makes awful decisions with his personnel, especially in the Oline. He doesn’t inspire a team to play hard and physical.
There’s a to. Wrong with this organization. Systematically. I guess we can continue to blame the lowest level like we have on this board and go after Barry or the QB or whomever else we want.
Murphy is the guy who hired an absolute $%@# at GM in Gutenbumst. He then hired LaFleur who I talked about above. He’s the guy who kept TT around even when he was clearly medically unfit to head an NFL franchise. At some point as owners we need to rise up and overthrow our this shot show and !@#$ poor management.
There’s a to. Wrong with this organization. Systematically. I guess we can continue to blame the lowest level like we have on this board and go after Barry or the QB or whomever else we want.
Murphy is the guy who hired an absolute $%@# at GM in Gutenbumst. He then hired LaFleur who I talked about above. He’s the guy who kept TT around even when he was clearly medically unfit to head an NFL franchise. At some point as owners we need to rise up and overthrow our this shot show and !@#$ poor management.
Cancelled by the forum elites.
I actually liked MLF's scheme on offense over the first three games this season. There receivers wide open on most plays, making it easy for Love to complete throws and move the chains. I wasn't able to watch the game vs. the Lions but during yesterday's game against the Raiders all of that was completely missing.
I have no idea if opponents have already caught up to his scheme with Love as the starter or if it was a bad job against the Raiders but I agree he definitely needs to do a better job of calling plays than that.
Obviously the players didn't execute at a decent level either.
I have no idea if opponents have already caught up to his scheme with Love as the starter or if it was a bad job against the Raiders but I agree he definitely needs to do a better job of calling plays than that.
Obviously the players didn't execute at a decent level either.
-
RingoCStarrQB
- Reactions:
- Posts: 4177
- Joined: 24 Mar 2020 19:56
Barry's D did OK last night. And the kicking game is fine.
It's MLF's underwhelming offense that sucks mightily right now.
It's MLF's underwhelming offense that sucks mightily right now.
Love and the receivers deserve part of the blame for the offense struggling as well though.RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 03:44Barry's D did OK last night. And the kicking game is fine.
It's MLF's underwhelming offense that sucks mightily right now.
-
musclestang
- Reactions:
- Posts: 1390
- Joined: 28 Aug 2023 08:42
Not sure what to say after last night. That was 2 pretty bad football teams fighting it out in what appeared to be a pretty decent football game so it was definitely entertaining, but not good football overall. Getting beaten by a bad team with an even worse dillweed of a head coach makes it even tougher.
This team has been consistently poor when you think about it. I'm not usually a pessimist, but they have been. Beat a terrible bears team, between Falcons and Saints had 3 out of 8 quarters where they played decent and then last night was a mish mash of some decent plays, some terrible plays, some luck, and generally mistake filled football, especially on offense.
I expect some of that, I also would like to see them get some of it fixed as we move forward. We're already at a bye week and one thing that should be evident to everyone by now, Rodgers was most definitely NOT the problem with this team.
So, I'll start with the good. I liked that they finally used Dillon to run north and south, not start him lateral to the line and wonder why he went nowhere. Our defense shows they have the horses to be pretty good, but between the times someone decides to not make a play or Barry puts them in a 10 yard cushion or 7 if they need 5 yards or 6 if they need 2, they still tend to be boom or bust. An energizing and dominating 3 and out, or 14 play 8 minute drive seems to be the norm.
i know we're missing some guys, but the Raiders are not a good or well coached football team. Keep that in mind.
Offensively? When the Oline is doing ok, we seem to do ok, when they don't, we don't. Big surprise. WR's did not help out their QB. Much like last year when Rodgers was "the problem". and in other times the QB did not help out the pass catchers. Love continues to look inexperienced. He had a stretch later in the game I was like, man he's coming around this game. and then looked like he was out of his league again.
That pass down the middle to Watson was a pretty good pass. A little more to the middle maybe, I'd have to watch a replay to be certain, but regardless. If you want to be a #1 NFL receiver, that is a ball you need to catch. Not this "almost" stuff. It was where he could get it, the defender couldn't make a play, and it was in your hands.
Then the pass to the endzone at the end. Need a replay again, because he may have been avoiding pressure, but Watson was open early, clearly beat his man and could have easily been a game winning TD. But the ball was late and short and pretty easy INT actually.
I had hoped they figured some things out with the extended break, but against a bad team with an even worse coach, they didn't show me much. This concerns me.
I do think we have some players, but they aren't showing a lot right now. They have an extra week to lick their wounds and get their heads right. The NFL waits for nobody.
This team has been consistently poor when you think about it. I'm not usually a pessimist, but they have been. Beat a terrible bears team, between Falcons and Saints had 3 out of 8 quarters where they played decent and then last night was a mish mash of some decent plays, some terrible plays, some luck, and generally mistake filled football, especially on offense.
I expect some of that, I also would like to see them get some of it fixed as we move forward. We're already at a bye week and one thing that should be evident to everyone by now, Rodgers was most definitely NOT the problem with this team.
So, I'll start with the good. I liked that they finally used Dillon to run north and south, not start him lateral to the line and wonder why he went nowhere. Our defense shows they have the horses to be pretty good, but between the times someone decides to not make a play or Barry puts them in a 10 yard cushion or 7 if they need 5 yards or 6 if they need 2, they still tend to be boom or bust. An energizing and dominating 3 and out, or 14 play 8 minute drive seems to be the norm.
i know we're missing some guys, but the Raiders are not a good or well coached football team. Keep that in mind.
Offensively? When the Oline is doing ok, we seem to do ok, when they don't, we don't. Big surprise. WR's did not help out their QB. Much like last year when Rodgers was "the problem". and in other times the QB did not help out the pass catchers. Love continues to look inexperienced. He had a stretch later in the game I was like, man he's coming around this game. and then looked like he was out of his league again.
That pass down the middle to Watson was a pretty good pass. A little more to the middle maybe, I'd have to watch a replay to be certain, but regardless. If you want to be a #1 NFL receiver, that is a ball you need to catch. Not this "almost" stuff. It was where he could get it, the defender couldn't make a play, and it was in your hands.
Then the pass to the endzone at the end. Need a replay again, because he may have been avoiding pressure, but Watson was open early, clearly beat his man and could have easily been a game winning TD. But the ball was late and short and pretty easy INT actually.
I had hoped they figured some things out with the extended break, but against a bad team with an even worse coach, they didn't show me much. This concerns me.
I do think we have some players, but they aren't showing a lot right now. They have an extra week to lick their wounds and get their heads right. The NFL waits for nobody.
Some pretty telling stuff from Demovsky at ESPN:
Another slow start. Another halftime hole. Another adjustment that comes up short.
This is getting old, and quick.
The pass game, in particular, was &%$@ poor. It did not compliment the run game whatsoever. The Raider defense was already cheating up to match Dillon's north/south running style and MLF is calling short pass routes that didn't exploit that. Instead, we saw screens, swing passes, and quick hitters that went directly into a short-field, run-playing defense. The announcers even mentioned at one point in the 2nd quarter that Love had only thrown a few passes beyond the LOS. Everything was into the teeth of the defense.
And WTF is up with the horrid execution on those screen passes?!? They look completely disjointed. Love is being pressured immediately, he can't hit his target, the blocking is horrible, and the plays typically go for a loss.
And then it's called again, in varying formations, multiple times.
I have no problem with screen calls. They can be very effective against an aggressive front. But if they're gonna be a focus of your play calls, you'd think they'd be a focus of practice and getting the execution right. The Packers are terrible at it. From timing of the offensive line in holding their blocks, timing in getting downfield (how many illegal downfield calls were there?), Love getting an accurate ball to the receiver, and blocks actually being executed, the failures are at every level! It's Friday night HS level bad.
Pretty clear that Rodgers' nit-picking over details is sorely missed with this offense. I don't see anybody picking up the player leadership role vacated by him and getting in that ass when mistakes are made. I can appreciate Love maintaining his level demeanor throughout but at some point, if receivers aren't in the spots they need to be, he needs to be the leader of the offense and say something.
<sigh>
I guess we were spoiled coming out the gate with a strong performance against Chicago. I have seen little growth in the offense since week one and, if anything, there seems to have been a regression. Maybe that's opponents figuring out MLF's tendencies? Maybe. At this point I'm leaning more toward a consistent failure to execute and that falls on all of them, from MLF and his coaching staff all the way down.
The Packers have been outscored a combined 54-6 in the first half of their last three games. It's the first time since December 1990 that they scored three or fewer points in the first half of three straight games in a season, according to ELIAS. They changed their approach, but the results did not change. Love came in averaging a league-high 9.7 air yards per pass attempt but in the first half averaged only 3.7 air yards per attempt, according to ESPN Stats & Information. Love did not complete a pass in the first half that traveled more than five yards in the air. The Packers were fortunate to only be down 10-3 after trailing the Lions 27-3 at the half last week.
Another slow start. Another halftime hole. Another adjustment that comes up short.
This is getting old, and quick.
The pass game, in particular, was &%$@ poor. It did not compliment the run game whatsoever. The Raider defense was already cheating up to match Dillon's north/south running style and MLF is calling short pass routes that didn't exploit that. Instead, we saw screens, swing passes, and quick hitters that went directly into a short-field, run-playing defense. The announcers even mentioned at one point in the 2nd quarter that Love had only thrown a few passes beyond the LOS. Everything was into the teeth of the defense.
And WTF is up with the horrid execution on those screen passes?!? They look completely disjointed. Love is being pressured immediately, he can't hit his target, the blocking is horrible, and the plays typically go for a loss.
And then it's called again, in varying formations, multiple times.
I have no problem with screen calls. They can be very effective against an aggressive front. But if they're gonna be a focus of your play calls, you'd think they'd be a focus of practice and getting the execution right. The Packers are terrible at it. From timing of the offensive line in holding their blocks, timing in getting downfield (how many illegal downfield calls were there?), Love getting an accurate ball to the receiver, and blocks actually being executed, the failures are at every level! It's Friday night HS level bad.
Pretty clear that Rodgers' nit-picking over details is sorely missed with this offense. I don't see anybody picking up the player leadership role vacated by him and getting in that ass when mistakes are made. I can appreciate Love maintaining his level demeanor throughout but at some point, if receivers aren't in the spots they need to be, he needs to be the leader of the offense and say something.
<sigh>
I guess we were spoiled coming out the gate with a strong performance against Chicago. I have seen little growth in the offense since week one and, if anything, there seems to have been a regression. Maybe that's opponents figuring out MLF's tendencies? Maybe. At this point I'm leaning more toward a consistent failure to execute and that falls on all of them, from MLF and his coaching staff all the way down.
Thanks for your failed organizational summary, yet again. It had been, what, 12 hours since I had last read it, in still another thread, so I was glad for the refresher.lupedafiasco wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 00:41Said it three years ago that I wasn’t sure about LaFleur. Basically confirmed it 2 years ago. Repeated it last season. LaFleur is a good offensive mind. He’s a terrible head coach. He makes awful decisions with his personnel, especially in the Oline. He doesn’t inspire a team to play hard and physical.
There’s a to. Wrong with this organization. Systematically. I guess we can continue to blame the lowest level like we have on this board and go after Barry or the QB or whomever else we want.
Murphy is the guy who hired an absolute $%@# at GM in Gutenbumst. He then hired LaFleur who I talked about above. He’s the guy who kept TT around even when he was clearly medically unfit to head an NFL franchise. At some point as owners we need to rise up and overthrow our this shot show and !@#$ poor management.
Unfortunately, we all know the BOD aren't going to fire Murphy, "Gutenbumst", LeFleur, or a resurrected TT at this point of the season. This is the staff we're stuck with, for better or worse, for the rest of the season. Maybe you can give the overarching "fire everybody" rant a rest for a while.
We need to have some patience, just wait till next year, this is a rebuilding year, it's a work in progress. 
I've defended Love, and Lafleur, but we looked like a JV team last night, even with time Love was late and inaccurate and made poor decisions, and Lafleurs game plans and adjustments are terrible, tough to watch this kind of play
I've defended Love, and Lafleur, but we looked like a JV team last night, even with time Love was late and inaccurate and made poor decisions, and Lafleurs game plans and adjustments are terrible, tough to watch this kind of play
-
AmishMafia
- Reactions:
- Posts: 315
- Joined: 19 May 2022 08:51
Love missed a few. Getting that last pass out 1 sec sooner and Watson has an easy catch for a TD and we win the game. I think it was his worse game. I did appreciate him not losing his composure. Would have like him to bring a bit more energy to the huddle.CWIMM wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 04:08Love and the receivers deserve part of the blame for the offense struggling as well though.RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 03:44Barry's D did OK last night. And the kicking game is fine.
It's MLF's underwhelming offense that sucks mightily right now.
The receivers? Dropped a few and that is on them.
But I didn't see a lot of open WRs against a really poor Raider secondary. One play on the last drive all the WRs ran 4-8 yds and just stopped. Even Aikman said, "I don't know what that was".
Ultimately, it is MLFs responsibility for the team being inspired, motivated, and schemed to be successful. I saw schematic issues. I think for MLF system to work, you have to have a functioning run game. Expect to see the first 3 picks next season to be on the OL and a RB.
This is what concerns me, too. The offense, in particular.musclestang wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 06:02I had hoped they figured some things out with the extended break, but against a bad team with an even worse coach, they didn't show me much. This concerns me.
They basically had a bye week to prepare for a bad defense. The Raiders have one guy that can disrupt your offense and after 11 days of preparation, MLF had no answer for him. Don't get me wrong, Maxx Crosby is a heckuva player, but FFS you'd think they would've had a plan to neutralize him. They obviously didn't.
Six points combined in the first half of the last three games. That is pathetic. Maybe getting Aaron Jones back fixes some of that but the issues clearly go beyond one player. MLF needs to be better. It starts with him.
I’m glad that people are finally starting to open their eyes to how awful a game day coach MLF is.
Alright Bahk, we get it - you loooooooooove you some Aaron Rodgers & you have no loyalty towards the Packers organization.lupedafiasco wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 00:41Said it three years ago that I wasn’t sure about LaFleur. Basically confirmed it 2 years ago. Repeated it last season. LaFleur is a good offensive mind. He’s a terrible head coach. He makes awful decisions with his personnel, especially in the Oline. He doesn’t inspire a team to play hard and physical.
There’s a to. Wrong with this organization. Systematically. I guess we can continue to blame the lowest level like we have on this board and go after Barry or the QB or whomever else we want.
Murphy is the guy who hired an absolute $%@# at GM in Gutenbumst. He then hired LaFleur who I talked about above. He’s the guy who kept TT around even when he was clearly medically unfit to head an NFL franchise. At some point as owners we need to rise up and overthrow our this shot show and !@#$ poor management.
We get it already, David. You can settle down now.
in years past we would have doubled up Crosby with Marvin Lewis or a RB, he would have been hit after beating the OL, not saying that would have worked every time, but we hardly slowed him down last night.APB wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 07:27This is what concerns me, too. The offense, in particular.musclestang wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 06:02I had hoped they figured some things out with the extended break, but against a bad team with an even worse coach, they didn't show me much. This concerns me.
They basically had a bye week to prepare for a bad defense. The Raiders have one guy that can disrupt your offense and after 11 days of preparation, MLF had no answer for him. Don't get me wrong, Maxx Crosby is a heckuva player, but FFS you'd think they would've had a plan to neutralize him. They obviously didn't.
Six points combined in the first half of the last three games. That is pathetic. Maybe getting Aaron Jones back fixes some of that but the issues clearly go beyond one player. MLF needs to be better. It starts with him.
someone said there glad Love remained composed and not rattled, to me Love shows zero emotion, It's like "oh well, I'll do better next time" he better improve or there may not be to many next times, Carlson is ready to go and he showed that he's ready to play in this league.
ahh the under cover Bares fan has spoken, he lacks loyalty to this front office and coaches, thats a whole different thing then having team loyaltyGunzaan wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 07:35Alright Bahk, we get it - you loooooooooove you some Aaron Rodgers & you have no loyalty towards the Packers organization.lupedafiasco wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 00:41Said it three years ago that I wasn’t sure about LaFleur. Basically confirmed it 2 years ago. Repeated it last season. LaFleur is a good offensive mind. He’s a terrible head coach. He makes awful decisions with his personnel, especially in the Oline. He doesn’t inspire a team to play hard and physical.
There’s a to. Wrong with this organization. Systematically. I guess we can continue to blame the lowest level like we have on this board and go after Barry or the QB or whomever else we want.
Murphy is the guy who hired an absolute $%@# at GM in Gutenbumst. He then hired LaFleur who I talked about above. He’s the guy who kept TT around even when he was clearly medically unfit to head an NFL franchise. At some point as owners we need to rise up and overthrow our this shot show and !@#$ poor management.
We get it already, David. You can settle down now.
As expected, this is a young and maddeningly uneven team.
What is interesting is whether you'd like to a) see one more year with LaFleur, Love and the young O building it together, with some more investment on the O, or b) blow it all up, start anew with maybe Love and the kids having to learn a new system, but maybe a more talented structure long term.
I think this season got messed up by Bakh AND Elg getting hurt, and Watson, too. A solid pass-pro Oline was needed for Love's first year with a bunch of young targets. Love is not getting that dream. I think Gutey prepped for the Oline to miss one All-Pro, but I don't even know how to prep for missing two.
What is interesting is whether you'd like to a) see one more year with LaFleur, Love and the young O building it together, with some more investment on the O, or b) blow it all up, start anew with maybe Love and the kids having to learn a new system, but maybe a more talented structure long term.
I think this season got messed up by Bakh AND Elg getting hurt, and Watson, too. A solid pass-pro Oline was needed for Love's first year with a bunch of young targets. Love is not getting that dream. I think Gutey prepped for the Oline to miss one All-Pro, but I don't even know how to prep for missing two.
-
Pckfn23
- Huddle Heavy Hitter
- Reactions:
- Posts: 14477
- Joined: 22 Mar 2020 22:13
- Location: Western Wisconsin
There are glimpses of really good things. In the past and even this year we have seen what the offense can be if it plays to it's strengths. If one wants to see what a LaFleur offense looks like, 2019 was it. Even this year we have seen some really good things. Unfortunately, with a young offense, we haven't been playing to the strengths. It's there and it's possible that a long hard look at the O is taken this next week and we find out what this team can be. Right now what LaFleur is bringing week in and week out does not fit his team. Along with this there were WAY to many times last night that receivers were in the same spot. Some of that is youth and some of that is coaching expectations.
As for Love, other than 2-3 maddeningly inaccurate throws a game he has not been consistently poor. The last 2 games decision making has been poor. Just off the cuff, that coincides with Watson back... The first 3 games his decisions were very good. The last 2, not at all good. I can say the only consistently bad thing I have seen over the 5 games is accuracy on passes to his left. Going forward does the decision making continue to spiral or does it improve. I don't expect the occasional misfires to get right until next season.
I await some All-22 analysis for this week, but I saw a poor game plan and bad QB play.
Defensively, they played fine. Not great, but well enough. It will be interesting to see the man/zone and base/nickel percentages and how that compares to the season so far. Going forward, I don't have a ton of faith. Take Maxx Crosby for example, we REFUSE to play our playmakers like that. The last time we did that was 2019. As an example, at the end of the game, we are playing 2 backup ILBs, how about we let our DL penetrate and ILBs clean up. Play to our strengths. Preston Smith on Davante with the nearest coverage defender 10+ yards away, gross...
As for Love, other than 2-3 maddeningly inaccurate throws a game he has not been consistently poor. The last 2 games decision making has been poor. Just off the cuff, that coincides with Watson back... The first 3 games his decisions were very good. The last 2, not at all good. I can say the only consistently bad thing I have seen over the 5 games is accuracy on passes to his left. Going forward does the decision making continue to spiral or does it improve. I don't expect the occasional misfires to get right until next season.
I await some All-22 analysis for this week, but I saw a poor game plan and bad QB play.
Defensively, they played fine. Not great, but well enough. It will be interesting to see the man/zone and base/nickel percentages and how that compares to the season so far. Going forward, I don't have a ton of faith. Take Maxx Crosby for example, we REFUSE to play our playmakers like that. The last time we did that was 2019. As an example, at the end of the game, we are playing 2 backup ILBs, how about we let our DL penetrate and ILBs clean up. Play to our strengths. Preston Smith on Davante with the nearest coverage defender 10+ yards away, gross...
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
-
BF004
- Huddle Heavy Hitter
- Reactions:
- Posts: 13862
- Joined: 17 Mar 2020 16:05
- Location: Suamico
- Contact:
This game was like worst case scenario long term.
We get the L, Love looks awful, definitely questioning if he can be the guy long term, and D actually looks really well, increasing the odds Barry is back again next year.
We get the L, Love looks awful, definitely questioning if he can be the guy long term, and D actually looks really well, increasing the odds Barry is back again next year.
The whole team is a $h!t show. It starts with Murphy who is more concerned about developing the land west of Lambeau than fielding a good football team. He hired Gutenbum who couldn't draft a winning roster if he had a fortune teller. He hired MLF who has no idea how to lead a football team or how to do anything other than X and O on a whiteboard.
If you get to the players, they are clearly less than the sum of their parts. The offense is atrocious, obviously. Love isn't the guy. He is consistently late with his reads, inaccurate, and 2-4 times a game makes awful decisions. He is still mostly the guy we saw in 2019 on film. His flaws then are his flaws now. And now he is locking in on Watson and just chucking it up. Watson isn't a #1 currently, everyone needs to stop pretending he is. He had 4 good games last year with #12 and has otherwise mostly been on the sideline in street clothes. He can't even run fast anymore, that long pass play would have been a TD last year. The WRs don't run good routes (Reed might be the best) and drop way too many passes. OL is very hit and miss, seems like Tom and Jenkins are the only ones worth anything. Jones stirs the drink but he has been hurt for a month after saying right after the game at Chi that he could have returned if the game were closer.
The defense is still underwhelming. Against bad teams they do OK, like last night. But the fundamental scheme and philosophy problems are still present and are exposed against good teams (like Det).
The team is a mess. I doubt they will be favored in any remaining game, and very well might not win another game all season.
If you get to the players, they are clearly less than the sum of their parts. The offense is atrocious, obviously. Love isn't the guy. He is consistently late with his reads, inaccurate, and 2-4 times a game makes awful decisions. He is still mostly the guy we saw in 2019 on film. His flaws then are his flaws now. And now he is locking in on Watson and just chucking it up. Watson isn't a #1 currently, everyone needs to stop pretending he is. He had 4 good games last year with #12 and has otherwise mostly been on the sideline in street clothes. He can't even run fast anymore, that long pass play would have been a TD last year. The WRs don't run good routes (Reed might be the best) and drop way too many passes. OL is very hit and miss, seems like Tom and Jenkins are the only ones worth anything. Jones stirs the drink but he has been hurt for a month after saying right after the game at Chi that he could have returned if the game were closer.
The defense is still underwhelming. Against bad teams they do OK, like last night. But the fundamental scheme and philosophy problems are still present and are exposed against good teams (like Det).
The team is a mess. I doubt they will be favored in any remaining game, and very well might not win another game all season.
Yeah it really wasn't good.
Good news is there is a lot of ball game left to get it on the right track. We aren't fighting for a playoff seed. We are just fighting to see something to build upon.
But yes. Yesterday was about as rough an outcome as it can for this next era of the roster.
Now if you will excuse me, I have some creative and thoughtful ranting to do...
"I've been saying it for years. It starts at the top...."
