State of QB play in NFL, 2023

[wallyuwl]

2 teams scored 28 or more points this week through Sunday. This has to be the worst QB play league-wide I have seen since... probably ever.

Who are the sure-fire HOFers? AR and Mahomes. Anyone else? Maybe Tua if he can put together a decade playing like he is now. Wilson was on track as of 2020 or so, but not anymore. Brees is gone. Brady is gone. Lawrence is good but not HOF.

And yet Barry still sucks with a roster full of 1st rounders.

[BF004]

2 teams scored 28 or more points this week through Sunday. This has to be the worst QB play league-wide I have seen since... probably ever.

Who are the sure-fire HOFers? AR and Mahomes. Anyone else? Maybe Tua if he can put together a decade playing like he is now. Wilson was on track as of 2020 or so, but not anymore. Brees is gone. Brady is gone. Lawrence is good but not HOF.

And yet Barry still sucks with a roster full of 1st rounders.

Yeah, tons of scores this year, like 17-13, 20-16, etc.

Defenses starting to pull ahead again here. Kind of fun to see.

I would add Joe Burrow is absolutely on a current HOF trajectory, but definitely not a sure fire HOF yet. Josh Allen and Hurts both just need like 10-12 years of this level of play and they could both get in.

But yes, this is a frustrating D.

[wallyuwl]

Yeah, I could see Burrow eventually getting in if he gets back on track and has 7-9 more years like 2021-2022. Don't think Allen or Hurts are there or will get there with how they are going.

[APB]

You forgot Brock Purdy from the most awesomely ever draft assembled roster…

[Yoop]

You forgot Brock Purdy from the most awesomely ever draft assembled roster…

the reasons there drafts have been better has been brought forward, it's fine if you don't agree, people are often wrong, nothing bad about that, but as they say acceptance of wrong is the first step towards correction, it behoves you to be more acceptive

I know most consider Purdy a average to even below average QB, hard for me to do that with a QB that rarely ever cost his team a win.

I often wonder if ya take away all that talent from the 60's team just how people would view Bart Starr

[MY_TAKE]

2 teams scored 28 or more points this week through Sunday. This has to be the worst QB play league-wide I have seen since... probably ever.

Who are the sure-fire HOFers? AR and Mahomes. Anyone else? Maybe Tua if he can put together a decade playing like he is now. Wilson was on track as of 2020 or so, but not anymore. Brees is gone. Brady is gone. Lawrence is good but not HOF.

And yet Barry still sucks with a roster full of 1st rounders.

Sure-fire HOFers? Thats alot to ask. There are a few that very well may get there if they play long enough and get some or more hardware.

Trevor Lawrence certainly could eventually make it
Joe Burrow has mostly had great success with a slow start this year. (he has been injured this year)
Justin Herbert has had a nice start to his career and has all the tools. (subpar game yesterday) but I would take him in a heart beat if I was a GM.
Lamar Jackson has won an MVP already and has developed into a pretty good thrower of the football in my opinion and won alot of games. Fantastic QB runner.
Jalen hurts looks mostly the part. He is super young and had great success already.


OH and Josh Allen looks good most of the time. Cant be great always. (see Aaron Rodgers) BTW Aaron is probably my favorite NFL player of all time.

[MY_TAKE]

Stafford will probably get some HOF votes.

[RingoCStarrQB]

You forgot Brock Purdy from the most awesomely ever draft assembled roster…

the reasons there drafts have been better has been brought forward, it's fine if you don't agree, people are often wrong, nothing bad about that, but as they say acceptance of wrong is the first step towards correction, it behoves you to be more acceptive

I know most consider Purdy a average to even below average QB, hard for me to do that with a QB that rarely ever cost his team a win.

I often wonder if ya take away all that talent from the 60's team just how people would view Bart Starr

At Paul Hornung's Hall of Fame speech in 1986 he articulated the notion that only 2 of the Lombardi Packers would have made it to the Hall of Fame without Lombardi 'cuz they were that good. Herb Adderley and Forrest Gregg. The rest of them including Starr, Ringo, Kramer, Taylor, Hornung, Davis, Jordan, Nitschke, Robinson and Wood all needed Lombardi to achieve greatness.

What a list! 12 players plus Vince himself. Emlen Tunnell went in as a Giant. GO PACK GO.

[lupedafiasco]

Gotta blame the college programs here. They aren’t teaching players to read defenses, make multiple reads, throwing receivers open. They only care about making things simpler which works at the college level but it sets these QBs up for failure.

[CWIMM]

Yeah, tons of scores this year, like 17-13, 20-16, etc.

Defenses starting to pull ahead again here. Kind of fun to see.

Teams currently average 21.7 points per game this season, which is the lowest since 2009.

You forgot Brock Purdy from the most awesomely ever draft assembled roster…

While you might not agree with the Niners having had success in the draft the numbers support that notion. I used Pro Football Reference's approximate value metric to rank team's in draft success since 2018 when Gutekunst took over. While I understand it isn't perfect by any means it's better than anything else I have access to.

Here's the list:

Bildschirmfoto 2023-10-17 um 12.33.24.png (31.64 KiB) Viewed 5538 times

Lamar Jackson has won an MVP already and has developed into a pretty good thrower of the football in my opinion and won alot of games. Fantastic QB runner.
Jalen hurts looks mostly the part. He is super young and had great success already.

I must have missed that Lamar has developed into a good thrower up to this point

Hurts is a dangerous threat because of his ability to run the ball but he's nowhere near being a HOF QB.

[APB]

While you might not agree with the Niners having had success in the draft the numbers support that notion.

Oh, I don't dispute the 49ers having had some success with some recent draft picks. They've found some good players, notably in later rounds. They've also had their share of blundering misses, though. I outlined those examples in the other thread.

My pushback is derived from the consistent fawning over anything 49ers related and the perception they are outwardly better than everybody else in their draft selections. They're not. They make their share of mistakes, just like every other org.

[Scott4Pack]

It's true that more QBs are developing into athletes/runners than becoming savvy passers.

As NFL teams scheme a simpler offense, it'll really take the more motivated players to become great passers, time managers, and guys who just find ways to win.

Plus, is there more youth at the starting QB slots now than ever? That'd also have something to do with this. There seems like a whole flock of guys with 1-3 years that have taken over.

[Papa John]

Hurts is a dangerous threat because of his ability to run the ball but he's nowhere near being a HOF QB.

I agree with this. He is overhyped by sports media, much like Donovan McNabb during his time with PHI.

[MY_TAKE]

Hurts is a dangerous threat because of his ability to run the ball but he's nowhere near being a HOF QB.

I agree with this. He is overhyped by sports media, much like Donovan McNabb during his time with PHI.

Well, he is 25 years old so, no, he is not near HOF YET! Could he be? I don't see why not. Time will tell. BTW, his running ability would be one of the reasons he makes HOF as a QB. You can't discount that. Its a little oxymoronic. Lamar Jackson won MVP because of his added abilty to run. IF you start winning MVP's your gonna get votes for HOF if you play long enough. Jalen Hurts played well in a superbowl already so thats not a horrible thing to have on a resume at only 25 years old. Just saying

[CWIMM]

Oh, I don't dispute the 49ers having had some success with some recent draft picks. They've found some good players, notably in later rounds. They've also had their share of blundering misses, though. I outlined those examples in the other thread.

My pushback is derived from the consistent fawning over anything 49ers related and the perception they are outwardly better than everybody else in their draft selections. They're not. They make their share of mistakes, just like every other org.

There's no doubt the Niners have messed up in the draft as well with Trey Lance being the worst pick over the past few years. They have had more success in adding talent that way than most teams since 2018, including the Packers though.

Well, he is 25 years old so, no, he is not near HOF YET! Could he be? I don't see why not. Time will tell. BTW, his running ability would be one of the reasons he makes HOF as a QB. You can't discount that. Its a little oxymoronic. Lamar Jackson won MVP because of his added abilty to run. IF you start winning MVP's your gonna get votes for HOF if you play long enough. Jalen Hurts played well in a superbowl already so thats not a horrible thing to have on a resume at only 25 years old. Just saying

In my opinion a quarterback needs to be a much better passer than Lamar and Hurts to ever come close to making it to the HOF.

[musclestang]

Hurts and Lamar have a long, long ways to go before I'd even consider them. Yes they're effective, but no, they do not drive the team like a HOF QB would. Lamar has been very, very average at best without a very strong running game around him and Hurts can throw up a jump ball to AJ Brown anytime he wants practically and has always had an exceptional Run game, pass catchers and defense. He's just a cog IMO.

Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, Brady are HOF QB's. IMO there isn't another one playing right now that doesn't have a lot to prove before consideration.

[Yoop]

Hurts and Lamar have a long, long ways to go before I'd even consider them. Yes they're effective, but no, they do not drive the team like a HOF QB would. Lamar has been very, very average at best without a very strong running game around him and Hurts can throw up a jump ball to AJ Brown anytime he wants practically and has always had an exceptional Run game, pass catchers and defense. He's just a cog IMO.

Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, Brady are HOF QB's. IMO there isn't another one playing right now that doesn't have a lot to prove before consideration.

I think all the guys that push Hurts for increased yardage and first downs and TD's should at least receive honorable mention for induction to something, maybe the league should make some sort of award for pushers

[MY_TAKE]

IMO there isn't another one playing right now that doesn't have a lot to prove before consideration.

I think in my post I thought I was clear that longevity plays a big part. 1 or 2 great seasons doesn't make a HOF QB. That being said, I am not sure how anyone can dispute winning a MVP equates to a GREAT season. Play long enough and add some more awards and a superbowl, your definitely headed that way. Team success matters also.
I also personally don't lessen a QB's accomplishments because of having the perception of better recievers, coaches ETC. IF your a HOF QB chances are you had some very good players/coaches around you. Extreme example: Montana and Young had Jerry Rice and crazy good coaching and teams/talent.
I will say this. It will be interesting to see if guys like Lamar and Hurts can sustain great production/effectiveness/winning into their 30's which is what they would need to do. Cam Newtons career started with a bang of positive results but ultimately he got beat up/wore down and was a shell of himself later in Career. IF that happens then no effing way do that have a chance at HOF.

Lastly, I will say it once again. IF your QB is running effectively for 800 yards and a bunch of TDs every season in addition to effectively Passing for 22 TD's and 6 picks that is PART of their greatness as long as its contributing to winning.

BTW ...Stafford is probably close to HOF. He will get votes once elligable.

GO Pack

[musclestang]

I don't lessen accomplishments because of supporting cast. Montana and Rice were great with each other. They were very complimentary of each other. Rodgers and Jennings were great together, Jordy, Adams. I don't think any were less because of who they played with. BUT, I see AJ Brown doing more to make Hurts than vice versa. and yeah, he can run. Let me see him do it when they don't have a run game and a WR that can win pretty much every ball he just throws up there. But without a run game that allows for that, I think he could add 10 INT's a year on the conservative side.

[CWIMM]

I think in my post I thought I was clear that longevity plays a big part. 1 or 2 great seasons doesn't make a HOF QB. That being said, I am not sure how anyone can dispute winning a MVP equates to a GREAT season. Play long enough and add some more awards and a superbowl, your definitely headed that way. Team success matters also.

Lamar Jackson won the MVP while ranking 22nd in passing yards with only 3,127 yards. On top of that he has never thrown for 2,900 yards in any other season in his career so far. Somehow he managed to lead the league in TD passes that year but considering he has thrown only 16 in 2021, 17 in '22 and five in six games this season I believe that was an anomaly.

Once again, he's a threat because of his ability to run the ball but that's not good enough for me to consider him for the HOF.