Who is worse?

[Pugger]

The complaint that we need to play tougher football has been a consistent refrain for 12 years. To me, this team has not sustained an identity of toughness for any notable number of consecutive weeks since 2010. We have seen glimpses, but we'd always get exposed as frauds when someone like SF or NYG would come in and smack us around, wipe our face in the dirt.

My point in bringing up bad memories is that I think the problem goes beyond the HC. Is LaFleur a bum ass? Yes, of course. But there is a culture of softness that has transcended multiple head coaches, GM's, and coordinators.

As others have stated, most fans knew this year would be a challenge, given the salary cap situation. I don't know if anyone thought it would be this bad. This team looks demoralized. The coaches look lost. It just looks like a &%$@ show from top to bottom. For that, there is no excuse.

It starts at the top. I think we need a paradigm shift. We need to revamp our culture. Make it more Green Bay Packers Football and less Green Bay Packers, Inc..

I don't know if I'd say this group isn't tough enough. The one thing I'm seeing this year that I like is they don't give up. But as was said earlier, I doubt this is the right staff for a team as young and inexperienced as this one. No matter how much time they have to prepare they never seem ready to play and only improve a tad as the game progresses. MLF's demeanor isn't what I want to see in a HC. You want your head guy to be a leader of men and your players respond in kind. He is probably better suited as an OC instead.

[Pugger]

Who can I blame for not being able to run the ball? Because that’s the answer for who to blame.

Running the ball takes pressure off a young QB.

We said all along the plan was to pound the rock with Jones and Dillon and that would be “the Lafleur offense” or something like that

Additionally, I don’t want to hear any excuses from anyone about Bakh being out. Gute and Lafleur both should not have been surprised at all that he is out. They should have seen his availability purely as a bonus. To rely on golf cart boy would he definition of insanity. So then it’s like..isn’t the OL about what we thought it would be?

Love would look a lot better if we pounded the rock, played defense, and asked him to convert 3rd and shorts.

Oh ya, exactly all we asked him to do week one. He looked just fine then.

Having your best RB miss most of the season so far hasn't helped the running game very much either.

I wish to God MLF would dump the screen plays. They almost never work!

[APB]

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100% false right here, as for proof listen to yesterday's presser with Matt Lefluer, they don't use the term "scripted" but yes they preplan the first few plays and one of the issues he talks about was the Denver always has come out nickel high to start the game, etc..and thats how they game planned those plays...Denver came out base D and it screwed things up. He said they have to check out of that situation so and so forth.

But Wildes claim...FALSE.

Wait just a minute...

We've seen countless times how the opponents offensive personnel package dictates what Barry does on defense. It's well documented and common throughout the league. Not commenting on whether Barry does it well or not, just the fact it happens.

Are you telling me the opponents defensive personnel package is also dictating what MLF does on offense? The Packers are having personnel packages of both offense and defense dictated by the opponent...?

well ya, never new it happens any other way, have you forgotten the RULES already

Point being the Packers are never dictating what happens on the field. They're always concerned with matchups and packages and what the other side is doing. On defense, I get it. You don't want base against 5-wide sets. But on offense? MLF should be forcing the defense to adjust to his offensive packages and forcing the issue, not the other way around.

It's no wonder the rest of the league considers them soft, they never just line up and beat you.

[Yoop]

Wait just a minute...

We've seen countless times how the opponents offensive personnel package dictates what Barry does on defense. It's well documented and common throughout the league. Not commenting on whether Barry does it well or not, just the fact it happens.

Are you telling me the opponents defensive personnel package is also dictating what MLF does on offense? The Packers are having personnel packages of both offense and defense dictated by the opponent...?

well ya, never new it happens any other way, have you forgotten the RULES already

Point being the Packers are never dictating what happens on the field. They're always concerned with matchups and packages and what the other side is doing. On defense, I get it. You don't want base against 5-wide sets. But on offense? MLF should be forcing the defense to adjust to his offensive packages and forcing the issue, not the other way around.

It's no wonder the rest of the league considers them soft, they never just line up and beat you.

I was just being snarky, joking, I do understand your point, to be more serious I have to say though he's limited with personal to force or dictate, Jones has been out, Dillon has lateral limitations, Watson is just getting back, we are reading of the WR mistakes often, every game, so who does Matt have to attack with? I've already defended Love, whether you agree with me or not, the analysis is that he is less the problem then most realize, still he's also in a learning curve, mostly I think the youth are hard to depend upon, and Lafluer knows mistakes can be harder to over come then risk averse offensive schemes (guessing)

[dsr]

Holmgren once explained why he scripted the first 15 plays. It was merely to see how the defense responded to certain formations, lineups and motions. He said it had nothing to do with having a group of plays that should work against a certain team. He said they often went off-script depending on the situation. It was meant to help him determine how the defense would react to very specific circumstances.

Surely the script had to be very flexible anyway? The third play of the game could be 3rd-and-1 at the 34, or it could be 1st-and-10 at the opponent 25 - they wouldn't call the same play regardless of circumstance just because the script says so. (If it's 1st-and-goal at the opponent's 1 yard line, they won't call a slow developing downfield route, I hope!)

[CWIMM]

They’ve told us that’s the way it is for years. Lafleur said he would send two plays in and they would check to highest percentage play based on what the d does. This is why I assumed the team passed so much. I have long advocated for getting good at what you do and executing no matter what the d shows. Make them stop you as you punch them in the mouth.

It makes sense to adjust the play called based on the defensive alignment. The offense should dictate the personnel on the field though.

I was just being snarky, joking, I do understand your point, to be more serious I have to say though he's limited with personal to force or dictate, Jones has been out, Dillon has lateral limitations, Watson is just getting back, we are reading of the WR mistakes often, every game, so who does Matt have to attack with?

Watson has been back for the last four games but has only caught 11 balls in those games.