Play the 2023 Packers Blame Game!

[Yoop]

You think the talent is there but play does not represent it, yet you blame the guy who brought that talent, not the guy who is tasked with getting them to play well... make it make sense.

I f you don't think injuries are boot strapping Lafleur, your in good company, most of this forum agrees with you

No I mean, if you think the talent is there but the team is not playing up to it, why are you pointing the finger at Gute (the guy who got the talent) and not MLF (the guy who needs to get them to play well) -?

stop asking me these hard questions

mostly because of how Gute prepared for the Love transition, his backup to Bakhtiari is one of the biggest reason for the struggle Love is having, along with some of the others on this OL, on top of that waiting till the last couple drafts to rebuild the receiver and TE position insuring that Love would have a room full of puppies to throw to, which intern has also made Lafleurs job much harder, coupled with the injury to Jones etc., and Lafleur obviously has a very limited play book to build game plans from, so the mistakes we see on almost every play are imo caused by to young a roster and poor health, Love/ and Lafleur lack almost any vet leadership to help them.

I expected some of this, not the OL issues, Jones incapacitated, or Watson hamstrings, but Doubs has splayed well enough most of the time, even Musgrave, but again, just like last year, drops end our drives.

improve any of these issues and we are 5-2.

[Labrev]

stop asking me these hard questions

mostly because of how Gute prepared for the Love transition, his backup to Bakhtiari is one of the biggest reason for the struggle Love is having, along with some of the others on this OL, on top of that waiting till the last couple drafts to rebuild the receiver and TE position insuring that Love would have a room full of puppies to throw to, which intern has also made Lafleurs job much harder, coupled with the injury to Jones etc., and Lafleur obviously has a very limited play book to build game plans from, so the mistakes we see on almost every play are imo caused by to young a roster and poor health, Love/ and Lafleur lack almost any vet leadership to help them.

I expected some of this, not the OL issues, Jones incapacitated, or Watson hamstrings, but Doubs has splayed well enough most of the time, even Musgrave, but again, just like last year, drops end our drives.

improve any of these issues and we are 5-2.

That's fair; I agree that the talent is good but they are not playing up to it. Injuries have been bad, but IMO what they had should have been enough to beat the pretty lousy slate of opponents we faced, two of them hanging less than 20 on us.

I blame the coaches for the backups. Three seasons ago, we had OL injuries and vacancies that forced us to play Myers and Newman as rookies, JRJ as a second-year player, Nijman who was a PS project for a while. When we put them out there, they all played fine, so much so that we gave Steno a promotion.

Those same guys are our starters/backups, by now we should be able to rely on them, yet they look bad now. Sure, Rodgers's calls at the OL probably helped and now they don't have that, but they regressed in play while Rodgers was here, so that is not the whole story.

What good would throwing draft picks at the OL have done? Rookies are usually not very good. Worse yet, our coaches do not make players better than rookies; they make them worse. It reminds me of the two Punters we ran out of town, both are now starters elsewhere, before realizing Mennenga and Drayton (Mennenga's assistant) needed to go, both of whom are basically nowhere.

[Yoop]

stop asking me these hard questions

mostly because of how Gute prepared for the Love transition, his backup to Bakhtiari is one of the biggest reason for the struggle Love is having, along with some of the others on this OL, on top of that waiting till the last couple drafts to rebuild the receiver and TE position insuring that Love would have a room full of puppies to throw to, which intern has also made Lafleurs job much harder, coupled with the injury to Jones etc., and Lafleur obviously has a very limited play book to build game plans from, so the mistakes we see on almost every play are imo caused by to young a roster and poor health, Love/ and Lafleur lack almost any vet leadership to help them.

I expected some of this, not the OL issues, Jones incapacitated, or Watson hamstrings, but Doubs has splayed well enough most of the time, even Musgrave, but again, just like last year, drops end our drives.

improve any of these issues and we are 5-2.

That's fair; I agree that the talent is good but they are not playing up to it. Injuries have been bad, but IMO what they had should have been enough to beat the pretty lousy slate of opponents we faced, two of them hanging less than 20 on us.

I blame the coaches for the backups. Three seasons ago, we had OL injuries and vacancies that forced us to play Myers and Newman as rookies, JRJ as a second-year player, Nijman who was a PS project for a while. When we put them out there, they all played fine, so much so that we gave Steno a promotion.

Those same guys are our starters/backups, by now we should be able to rely on them, yet they look bad now. Sure, Rodgers's calls at the OL probably helped and now they don't have that, but they regressed in play while Rodgers was here, so that is not the whole story.

What good would throwing draft picks at the OL have done? Rookies are usually not very good. Worse yet, our coaches do not make players better than rookies; they make them worse. It reminds me of the two Punters we ran out of town, both are now starters elsewhere, before realizing Mennenga and Drayton (Mennenga's assistant) needed to go, both of whom are basically nowhere.

I goofed up the quote or something

Mod edit: fixed

so here's my response

obviously Jenkins and Myers where earlier picks, but ya can't expect to hit pay dirt with every mid or late round OL pick, and thats where we grab most of em, what happens is a revolving door of mid rounders that never improve much, and are a huge drop off when forced to play, sorta explains some about how we ended up in this predicament, and yes coaches matter, Butkus as a oline coach has not been impressive.

we also have to except that Mike McCarthy slogan, or at least we should, not all teams are the same year to year, even though none of the personal has changed, to me that is so spot on, yet fans never seem to grasp that reality, players don't play the same, they either improve or decline, no one treads water

injuries led to the decline when Rodgers was here with the OL, same pretty much this year, teams that win SB's and PO games tend to be two tier deep at many positions, it's what won us a SB in 2010

we have been snake bit with injury and youth, which imo has led to most of our problems this year, so we muster through this and ready ourselves to win a trophy in 2024

[CWIMM]

I mean...no...the situations really weren't that different. Both teams coming off playoff seasons, aging QB that had hinted about retirement, good situation where they could allow the rookie QB to sit a couple years.

While the Packers made the playoffs in both 2004 and 2019 they found themselves in completely different situations entering the draft. In 2005, the team had massive issues regarding the cap which resulted in Thompson having to move on from several players and a 4-12 season despite Favre starting every game. In 2020, they were one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl and trading up to select a backup QB was a terrible idea in the first place. Gutekunst taking any other player at that point might have resulted in them winning another Lombardi.

I can't blame Gute, he drafted Gary, for example. This team is full of very talented individuals, they just don't play like a team - and that is on the coaches.

I can't blame Barry either. The D has outperformed the O this season, by a wide margin. And if Barry were not doing his job, MLF should fire him, which MLF has not done.

There's no doubt Gutekunst has drafted some very good players but the 2020 draft should have been reason enough for him to be on the hot seat. As I have mentioned before, in my opinion he did a good job in his first two seasons on the job (signing some impact free agents as well) but since then has made a lot of terrible decisions that have led to them currently being one of the worst teams in the league.

I lifted the BLOCK that I have put on your posts to see if you actually contributed anything to the topic at hand, i.e. which one of the options and your reasons why, genuinely curious if you had a thought-provoking or at least unique take on it.

But nope, no such thing. How disappointing. Back to the Ignore List with ye!

Got it, you're one of the posters who truly believe they have some earth-shattering input to share no one else has ever thought about and feel superior because of it.

Let me tell you something, if one of those ideas is that you truly believe Gutekunst has added too much talent to the roster it might be smart to be quiet instead of posting something like that.

And losing to the Rams would have the makings of a midseason firing, not with it happening right after that game per-se, more likely amid the tougher opponents following the Rams game, with the last straw being an embarrassing beatdown at the hands of one of them.

Rich Bisaccia has been Interim HC before, did an admirable job with it as well. Then you can also get to see how the O looks with Steno calling the shots. There is not much reason for optimism there, given how bad the O has looked with him as O-Coord, but who knows? Maybe the guy actually has great ideas and is just unable to get through with MLF running things.

Doubtful, but it would be a more worthwhile experiment than seeing what LaFleur can do at 2-9 or 3-10.

I guarantee that the Packers won't fire MLF during the season.

The roster is not good enough to win a super bowl.
The roster is plenty good enough to compete for a 7 seed.

The fact that the team is competing for a top 5 draft pick, is a lafleur thing.

Good coaching and good use of the players we do have, and good scheme and game management could absolutely navigate this team to a season we all find acceptable.

Lafleur has contributed none of that.

The current roster isn't good enough to come anywhere close to cliniching a wild card spot.

If anything, I almost regret that Gute has added as much talent as he has, to a point where Barry's defective defensive gameplans look passable because there are lots of solid-to-good players and simply are no real "holes" on that side ala MD Jennings, Brad Jones, etc.

I'm sorry, but it's absolutely hilarious to believe Gutekunst has added too much talent when in fact he hasn't done enough to improve the roster.

So we shouldn't have ever drafted Aaron Rodgers?

Rodgers was drafted in a completely different situation than Love though.

Wow - this post is yoop-level bad. What an atrocious take.

Would you please explain what you disagree with? Is it that the Packers aren't good enough to clinch a wild card spot? If so, have you watched the last few games? Or is it that you believe Gutekunst has added too much talent? I mean, that would be a strange take at best. Look above for why the Packers found themselves in a different situations in 2005 and than '20.

But all these all-22, deeper play analysis. Just so many weak mental mistakes, wrong routes, wrong communication, missed blocking assignments.

We knew we were stepping back in talent, but it’s not like we are just getting out muscled and out ran. So much beating ourselves, not prepared.

I think perhaps LaFleur underestimated how hard it is to coach up such a young team, keep the focus on the simple communication and fundamentals. Or got used to how easy it was when we had such a veteran team in the past. He’s the type of coach we could actually use on D. Someone who can turn great talent into something special, but can’t bring inexperienced talent.

It’s not even about too many negative plays, it’s about way too many plays where we don’t actually run a functioning play that 11 people are on the same page.

I think a lot of fans completely underestimate how hard it is to coach such a young team in the NFL. The coaching staff can have them prepared perfectly they will still end up making mental mistakes anyway.

I blame the coaches for the backups. Three seasons ago, we had OL injuries and vacancies that forced us to play Myers and Newman as rookies, JRJ as a second-year player, Nijman who was a PS project for a while. When we put them out there, they all played fine, so much so that we gave Steno a promotion.

Those same guys are our starters/backups, by now we should be able to rely on them, yet they look bad now.

Gutekunst is the one responsible for assembling the roster, hence for the backup offensive linemen on it.

[Acrobat]

I mean...no...the situations really weren't that different. Both teams coming off playoff seasons, aging QB that had hinted about retirement, good situation where they could allow the rookie QB to sit a couple years.

While the Packers made the playoffs in both 2004 and 2019 they found themselves in completely different situations entering the draft. In 2005, the team had massive issues regarding the cap which resulted in Thompson having to move on from several players and a 4-12 season despite Favre starting every game. In 2020, they were one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl and trading up to select a backup QB was a terrible idea in the first place. Gutekunst taking any other player at that point might have resulted in them winning another Lombardi.

I can't blame Gute, he drafted Gary, for example. This team is full of very talented individuals, they just don't play like a team - and that is on the coaches.

I can't blame Barry either. The D has outperformed the O this season, by a wide margin. And if Barry were not doing his job, MLF should fire him, which MLF has not done.

There's no doubt Gutekunst has drafted some very good players but the 2020 draft should have been reason enough for him to be on the hot seat. As I have mentioned before, in my opinion he did a good job in his first two seasons on the job (signing some impact free agents as well) but since then has made a lot of terrible decisions that have led to them currently being one of the worst teams in the league.

I lifted the BLOCK that I have put on your posts to see if you actually contributed anything to the topic at hand, i.e. which one of the options and your reasons why, genuinely curious if you had a thought-provoking or at least unique take on it.

But nope, no such thing. How disappointing. Back to the Ignore List with ye!

Got it, you're one of the posters who truly believe they have some earth-shattering input to share no one else has ever thought about and feel superior because of it.

Let me tell you something, if one of those ideas is that you truly believe Gutekunst has added too much talent to the roster it might be smart to be quiet instead of posting something like that.

And losing to the Rams would have the makings of a midseason firing, not with it happening right after that game per-se, more likely amid the tougher opponents following the Rams game, with the last straw being an embarrassing beatdown at the hands of one of them.

Rich Bisaccia has been Interim HC before, did an admirable job with it as well. Then you can also get to see how the O looks with Steno calling the shots. There is not much reason for optimism there, given how bad the O has looked with him as O-Coord, but who knows? Maybe the guy actually has great ideas and is just unable to get through with MLF running things.

Doubtful, but it would be a more worthwhile experiment than seeing what LaFleur can do at 2-9 or 3-10.

I guarantee that the Packers won't fire MLF during the season.

The current roster isn't good enough to come anywhere close to cliniching a wild card spot.



I'm sorry, but it's absolutely hilarious to believe Gutekunst has added too much talent when in fact he hasn't done enough to improve the roster.



Rodgers was drafted in a completely different situation than Love though.

Wow - this post is yoop-level bad. What an atrocious take.

Would you please explain what you disagree with? Is it that the Packers aren't good enough to clinch a wild card spot? If so, have you watched the last few games? Or is it that you believe Gutekunst has added too much talent? I mean, that would be a strange take at best. Look above for why the Packers found themselves in a different situations in 2005 and than '20.

But all these all-22, deeper play analysis. Just so many weak mental mistakes, wrong routes, wrong communication, missed blocking assignments.

We knew we were stepping back in talent, but it’s not like we are just getting out muscled and out ran. So much beating ourselves, not prepared.

I think perhaps LaFleur underestimated how hard it is to coach up such a young team, keep the focus on the simple communication and fundamentals. Or got used to how easy it was when we had such a veteran team in the past. He’s the type of coach we could actually use on D. Someone who can turn great talent into something special, but can’t bring inexperienced talent.

It’s not even about too many negative plays, it’s about way too many plays where we don’t actually run a functioning play that 11 people are on the same page.

I think a lot of fans completely underestimate how hard it is to coach such a young team in the NFL. The coaching staff can have them prepared perfectly they will still end up making mental mistakes anyway.

I blame the coaches for the backups. Three seasons ago, we had OL injuries and vacancies that forced us to play Myers and Newman as rookies, JRJ as a second-year player, Nijman who was a PS project for a while. When we put them out there, they all played fine, so much so that we gave Steno a promotion.

Those same guys are our starters/backups, by now we should be able to rely on them, yet they look bad now.

Gutekunst is the one responsible for assembling the roster, hence for the backup offensive linemen on it.

I really dislike the argument of "If Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl". The ONLY player I could maybe get on board with is Justin Jefferson. But that's a fictional narrative as he wasn't available at our slot. And even if we had pulled off a trade to get him, I'm not sure that he would have been able to stop the Tom Brady hail mary at the end of the half or somehow prevent Aaron Jones from fumbling to start the 3rd Quarter. Those 2 plays ultimately decided the ball game.

[BF004]

But all these all-22, deeper play analysis. Just so many weak mental mistakes, wrong routes, wrong communication, missed blocking assignments.

We knew we were stepping back in talent, but it’s not like we are just getting out muscled and out ran. So much beating ourselves, not prepared.

I think perhaps LaFleur underestimated how hard it is to coach up such a young team, keep the focus on the simple communication and fundamentals. Or got used to how easy it was when we had such a veteran team in the past. He’s the type of coach we could actually use on D. Someone who can turn great talent into something special, but can’t bring inexperienced talent.

It’s not even about too many negative plays, it’s about way too many plays where we don’t actually run a functioning play that 11 people are on the same page.

I think a lot of fans completely underestimate how hard it is to coach such a young team in the NFL. The coaching staff can have them prepared perfectly they will still end up making mental mistakes anyway.

I completely estimate it properly, I've been coaching 6/7 year old flag football the last two years.


Either way, the playbook and playcalling needs to be dumbed down a bit more then. If we get the offensive equivalent of Preston covering Davante, I'd be more okay of that knowing the O can't make every check and audible if they are keeping it simple.

But we basically aren't having a chance, like one out of every 5 plays has some type of catastrophic mental breakdown.

[LombardiTime]

I really dislike the argument of "If Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl". The ONLY player I could maybe get on board with is Justin Jefferson. But that's a fictional narrative as he wasn't available at our slot. And even if we had pulled off a trade to get him, I'm not sure that he would have been able to stop the Tom Brady hail mary at the end of the half or somehow prevent Aaron Jones from fumbling to start the 3rd Quarter. Those 2 plays ultimately decided the ball game.

The argument that had "if Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl" is ridiculous. Any one player could have been a bust, not contributed in 2020 or 2021 (when the Packers were still Super Bowl contenders), gotten injured, etc.

Then again, the argument that had Gute used his 2020 1st and 4th round picks on players other than Jordan Love there is no possible way those players could have contributed more to the Packers effort to win a Super Bowl than Jordan Love did is demonstrably false.

Tampa Bay had a rookie 4th round wide receiver make a couple of plays that contributed to the NFC Championship win over the Packers in Green Bay. They also had a (high) 2nd round rookie Safety who was instrumental in helping the Bucs win the Super Bowl that year.

Arguing that selecting Jordan Love cannot be criticized BECAUSE NO PLAYERS selected in rounds 1 or 4 of the 2020 NFL draft could have possibly contributed to Packer Super Bowl runs in 2020 or 2021 is a fictional narrative.

[Papa John]

I really dislike the argument of "If Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl". The ONLY player I could maybe get on board with is Justin Jefferson. But that's a fictional narrative as he wasn't available at our slot. And even if we had pulled off a trade to get him, I'm not sure that he would have been able to stop the Tom Brady hail mary at the end of the half or somehow prevent Aaron Jones from fumbling to start the 3rd Quarter. Those 2 plays ultimately decided the ball game.

The argument that had "if Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl" is ridiculous. Any one player could have been a bust, not contributed in 2020 or 2021 (when the Packers were still Super Bowl contenders), gotten injured, etc.

Then again, the argument that had Gute used his 2020 1st and 4th round picks on players other than Jordan Love there is no possible way those players could have contributed more to the Packers effort to win a Super Bowl than Jordan Love did is demonstrably false.

Tampa Bay had a rookie 4th round wide receiver make a couple of plays that contributed to the NFC Championship win over the Packers in Green Bay. They also had a (high) 2nd round rookie Safety who was instrumental in helping the Bucs win the Super Bowl that year.

Arguing that selecting Jordan Love cannot be criticized BECAUSE NO PLAYERS selected in rounds 1 or 4 of the 2020 NFL draft could have possibly contributed to Packer Super Bowl runs in 2020 or 2021 is a fictional narrative.

Big Papa John is gonna co-sign on this one. During that window, this team was one of a few select Super Bowl contenders in the league. Saying that if he picked someone else besides Love, we would have won it all is ridiculous. But saying that we wouldn't have won it anyway is just as absurd. The fact of the matter is that drafting just about any other position would have improved our odds of winning a title more so than picking a QB.

[Acrobat]

I really dislike the argument of "If Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl". The ONLY player I could maybe get on board with is Justin Jefferson. But that's a fictional narrative as he wasn't available at our slot. And even if we had pulled off a trade to get him, I'm not sure that he would have been able to stop the Tom Brady hail mary at the end of the half or somehow prevent Aaron Jones from fumbling to start the 3rd Quarter. Those 2 plays ultimately decided the ball game.

The argument that had "if Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl" is ridiculous. Any one player could have been a bust, not contributed in 2020 or 2021 (when the Packers were still Super Bowl contenders), gotten injured, etc.

Then again, the argument that had Gute used his 2020 1st and 4th round picks on players other than Jordan Love there is no possible way those players could have contributed more to the Packers effort to win a Super Bowl than Jordan Love did is demonstrably false.

Tampa Bay had a rookie 4th round wide receiver make a couple of plays that contributed to the NFC Championship win over the Packers in Green Bay. They also had a (high) 2nd round rookie Safety who was instrumental in helping the Bucs win the Super Bowl that year.

Arguing that selecting Jordan Love cannot be criticized BECAUSE NO PLAYERS selected in rounds 1 or 4 of the 2020 NFL draft could have possibly contributed to Packer Super Bowl runs in 2020 or 2021 is a fictional narrative.

There's also the argument to be made that drafting Love was a great motivational tool for Rodgers, as Rodgers had not looked great since the latter part of 2016, which was really his only good stretch in about a 5 year span and I think a lot of us were ready to move on. I don't think a lot of people expected Rodgers to roll out 2 MVP seasons in a row based on what they had seen in recent history.

Love might be a bust, but it's not like the pick didn't make sense in the context of where our franchise was at in early 2020. If Love is a bust, Gute should be held accountable for drafting the wrong QB, not for drafting a QB.

[Labrev]

I really dislike the argument of "If Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl". The ONLY player I could maybe get on board with is Justin Jefferson. But that's a fictional narrative as he wasn't available at our slot. And even if we had pulled off a trade to get him, I'm not sure that he would have been able to stop the Tom Brady hail mary at the end of the half or somehow prevent Aaron Jones from fumbling to start the 3rd Quarter. Those 2 plays ultimately decided the ball game.

I agree.

My other, bigger objection to this what-if game is, to me, the team we had *was* good enough to win. And this idea about who we could have drafted to get over the hump excuses the coach and players for their failure to do so. The opportunity presented itself several times in-game, but the team failed to take it, while the other team went out and made the plays.

The fact of the matter is that drafting just about any other position would have improved our odds of winning a title more so than picking a QB.

Unless picking a QB lit a fire under Rodgers to get him to play at MVP level.

There is this trite fan-fiction tale to which some here subscribe of Rodgers as a damsel victimized by the big bad GMs that conspired to field bad players on offense and make him suffer, for... some reason.

In reality, Rodgers plays his worst when he is comfy and content, and plays his best when he is pissed and slighted.

Rodgers got comfy after signing his 2018 megadeal. All set financially, de facto job-security. He took it easy. His play had dropped, he admitted it, but said his down years are other QBs' career years, so who cares? The GM took the fall, then the coach, and he felt zero heat.

Then they draft Love in 2020, the only semblance of heat on him to perform in recent memory, he gets pissed at the idea that he will be replaced the way he himself replaced his predecessor, job security now challenged a bit, suddenly he plays at MVP level. Go figure.

[Yoop]

I really dislike the argument of "If Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl". The ONLY player I could maybe get on board with is Justin Jefferson. But that's a fictional narrative as he wasn't available at our slot. And even if we had pulled off a trade to get him, I'm not sure that he would have been able to stop the Tom Brady hail mary at the end of the half or somehow prevent Aaron Jones from fumbling to start the 3rd Quarter. Those 2 plays ultimately decided the ball game.

the point is taking Love never allowed for even a chance to see if a receiver would have made a difference, Rodgers received no help at the skill positions, thats the point, and there where good receivers that went after we took Love, not to mention FA market, when all you have really are Adams, Jones, and field burner MVS that's not enough.

picking Love was counter productive, period, so tired of people defending that irrational draft pick, come on.

[Acrobat]

I really dislike the argument of "If Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl". The ONLY player I could maybe get on board with is Justin Jefferson. But that's a fictional narrative as he wasn't available at our slot. And even if we had pulled off a trade to get him, I'm not sure that he would have been able to stop the Tom Brady hail mary at the end of the half or somehow prevent Aaron Jones from fumbling to start the 3rd Quarter. Those 2 plays ultimately decided the ball game.

the point is taking Love never allowed for even a chance to see if a receiver would have made a difference, Rodgers received no help at the skill positions, thats the point, and there where good receivers that went after we took Love, not to mention FA market, when all you have really are Adams, Jones, and field burner MVS that's not enough.

picking Love was counter productive, period, so tired of people defending that irrational draft pick, come on.

The 1st WR taken after our pick was Tee Higgins. I don't see how Tee Higgins could have stopped the Brady Hail Mary or Aaron Jones fumble, unless the Packers put rookie Tee Higgins at safety at the end of the half and also called a route for him to be right next to Aaron Jones to scoop up a fumble.

[Yoop]

I really dislike the argument of "If Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl". The ONLY player I could maybe get on board with is Justin Jefferson. But that's a fictional narrative as he wasn't available at our slot. And even if we had pulled off a trade to get him, I'm not sure that he would have been able to stop the Tom Brady hail mary at the end of the half or somehow prevent Aaron Jones from fumbling to start the 3rd Quarter. Those 2 plays ultimately decided the ball game.

I agree.

My other, bigger objection to this what-if game is, to me, the team we had *was* good enough to win. And this idea about who we could have drafted to get over the hump excuses the coach and players for their failure to do so. The opportunity presented itself several times in-game, but the team failed to take it, while the other team went out and made the plays.

The fact of the matter is that drafting just about any other position would have improved our odds of winning a title more so than picking a QB.

Unless picking a QB lit a fire under Rodgers to get him to play at MVP level.

There is this trite fan-fiction tale to which some here subscribe of Rodgers as a damsel victimized by the big bad GMs that conspired to field bad players on offense and make him suffer, for... some reason.

In reality, Rodgers plays his worst when he is comfy and content, and plays his best when he is pissed and slighted.

Rodgers got comfy after signing his 2018 megadeal. All set financially, de facto job-security. He took it easy. His play had dropped, he admitted it, but said his down years are other QBs' career years, so who cares? The GM took the fall, then the coach, and he felt zero heat.

Then they draft Love in 2020, the only semblance of heat on him to perform in recent memory, he gets pissed at the idea that he will be replaced the way he himself replaced his predecessor, job security now challenged a bit, suddenly he plays at MVP level. Go figure.

Rodgers had been asking for change since we lost to the hawks in 2015, was vocal about it in 2017, I think people neglected to hear that because they blamed Rodgers for just about anything that didn't work or have success, he wanted either better receivers or scheme adjustment, wanted mcCarthy to stick with the run more, and didn't get any of itm and thats the real reason McCarthy was fired.

so all this stuff that Rodgers is better with a chip on his shoulder ( who the heck doesn't try harder when the chips are down? total losers thats who) is just half baked reason to say, what? that it's normal, thanks for that bit of sanity.

Rodgers looks his very best when he has more then one stud receiver to throw to, you know just like all other QB's, Labrev you take the cake for twisting everything to suit your arguments, there was a reason why Rodgers play declined, but you wont consider anything because it destroys your twisting of it to support your created rational, th e simple truth isn't good enough for you, new schemes usually take time to evolve, and Rodgers had always had the ability even in 019 to be the MVP just as he was the next 2 years.

[Yoop]

I really dislike the argument of "If Gute had drafted a different player than Love in the 2020 draft, we probably would have won the Super Bowl". The ONLY player I could maybe get on board with is Justin Jefferson. But that's a fictional narrative as he wasn't available at our slot. And even if we had pulled off a trade to get him, I'm not sure that he would have been able to stop the Tom Brady hail mary at the end of the half or somehow prevent Aaron Jones from fumbling to start the 3rd Quarter. Those 2 plays ultimately decided the ball game.

the point is taking Love never allowed for even a chance to see if a receiver would have made a difference, Rodgers received no help at the skill positions, thats the point, and there where good receivers that went after we took Love, not to mention FA market, when all you have really are Adams, Jones, and field burner MVS that's not enough.

picking Love was counter productive, period, so tired of people defending that irrational draft pick, come on.

The 1st WR taken after our pick was Tee Higgins. I don't see how Tee Higgins could have stopped the Brady Hail Mary or Aaron Jones fumble, unless the Packers put rookie Tee Higgins at safety at the end of the half and also called a route for him to be right next to Aaron Jones to scoop up a fumble.

of course you don't, you don't want to, the first step to realizing your wrong is a open mind,( I'am just razzing) another receiver has the ability to change everything you mentioned, the complete game in fact.

look around the league, it's a more is better concept that a offense is better at creating mis matches with more skill position talent, the Niners ( just using them to reference) didn't bring aboard McCaffery, SAmual et. just to spend money, those additions are why they still win with Purdy, it make a offense less predictable.


again this comes down to the failed thinking that ya need a top line defense to win a championship, and thats where most of our resources have been used, so much so that it came at the expense of simply using a high pick, which comes with higher odds of success for skill position talent, for many years I might add.

that doesn't guarantee a owl, nothing does, but it sure raises the odds

[go pak go]

The 2020 draft was arguably the deepest draft at WR at the top. There were 11 WRs taken in the first 50 selections. We now have benefit of hindsight to see who was worth it.

Good Pick
1. CeeDee Lamb
2. Justin Jefferson
3. Brandon Aiyuk
4. Tee Higgins
5. Michael Pittman

Not Worth the Pick
1. Henry Ruggs
2. Jerry Jeudy
3. Jalen Reagor
4. Laviska Shenault
5. KJ Hamler
6. Chase Claypool

I believe it is safe to say we would have been better off taking the good 5 recievers instead of Love but there is also a great chance that one of the top WRs taken would have been a bust in GB as well.

In the end, the draft is a thing of chance. Position of need matters but hitting on the player is even more important. We should have drafted Higgins. But it's pretty easy to say that with benefit of 3 years of hindsight.

[Acrobat]

The 2020 draft was arguably the deepest draft at WR at the top. There were 11 WRs taken in the first 50 selections. We now have benefit of hindsight to see who was worth it.

Good Pick
1. CeeDee Lamb
2. Justin Jefferson
3. Brandon Aiyuk
4. Tee Higgins
5. Michael Pittman

Not Worth the Pick
1. Henry Ruggs
2. Jerry Jeudy
3. Jalen Reagor
4. Laviska Shenault
5. KJ Hamler
6. Chase Claypool

I believe it is safe to say we would have been better off taking the good 5 recievers instead of Love but there is also a great chance that one of the top WRs taken would have been a bust in GB as well.

In the end, the draft is a thing of chance. Position of need matters but hitting on the player is even more important. We should have drafted Higgins. But it's pretty easy to say that with benefit of 3 years of hindsight.

Yep for sure, I would have preferred Higgins too, but in the conversation of if he would have been the difference maker for us winning the 2020 Super Bowl, I would say definitely not. But yeah, wish we had him over Love right now and would have maybe taken a different QB like Hurts one round later. Imagine this team with Higgins and Hurts compared to Love and Dillon.

[Yoop]

The 2020 draft was arguably the deepest draft at WR at the top. There were 11 WRs taken in the first 50 selections. We now have benefit of hindsight to see who was worth it.

Good Pick
1. CeeDee Lamb
2. Justin Jefferson
3. Brandon Aiyuk
4. Tee Higgins
5. Michael Pittman

Not Worth the Pick
1. Henry Ruggs
2. Jerry Jeudy
3. Jalen Reagor
4. Laviska Shenault
5. KJ Hamler
6. Chase Claypool

I believe it is safe to say we would have been better off taking the good 5 recievers instead of Love but there is also a great chance that one of the top WRs taken would have been a bust in GB as well.

In the end, the draft is a thing of chance. Position of need matters but hitting on the player is even more important. We should have drafted Higgins. But it's pretty easy to say that with benefit of 3 years of hindsight.

scheme fit and QB could have made a big diff for most on your poor pick list, and every season we see one ( 1 ) player decide the out come of PO games, and it's not the same players year after year, plus receiver where also available with UFA or trade, we did nothing for years

thing is we relied on the Rodgers/Adams/Jones trio to set the table, the only guys a D cord had to design ways to stop, imo thats a empty pantry for a chief.

reality is we put everything into defense, and now finally ( with Rodgers practically out the door) Guty rebuilds, or is attempting to rebuild that position, same with TE, one would think this was on purpose, how can it not appear that way to you?

[Papa John]

Unless picking a QB lit a fire under Rodgers to get him to play at MVP level.

There is this trite fan-fiction tale to which some here subscribe of Rodgers as a damsel victimized by the big bad GMs that conspired to field bad players on offense and make him suffer, for... some reason.

In reality, Rodgers plays his worst when he is comfy and content, and plays his best when he is pissed and slighted.

Rodgers got comfy after signing his 2018 megadeal. All set financially, de facto job-security. He took it easy. His play had dropped, he admitted it, but said his down years are other QBs' career years, so who cares? The GM took the fall, then the coach, and he felt zero heat.

Then they draft Love in 2020, the only semblance of heat on him to perform in recent memory, he gets pissed at the idea that he will be replaced the way he himself replaced his predecessor, job security now challenged a bit, suddenly he plays at MVP level. Go figure.

I was one of the first to question Rodgers' devotion to the game of football, back in the mid-2010's. For awhile there he seemed to have been too caught up in celebrity life. That being said, I think that we can agree that the team was primed for high-level success in '20-21. Regardless of what you think about his level of commitment at that point, he was still going to be the best option we had at QB for those 2 years- regardless of whether we drafted a QB in round 1, 2020.

If motivating the current starting QB is the best that can come out of drafting a QB when the roster desperately needs a #2 WR, then it's not smart to draft a QB.

[Labrev]

That being said, I think that we can agree that the team was primed for high-level success in '20-21.

It might seem obvious that we were primed for success because we know in hindsight that it happened, and because everyone almost always expects the team to improve over last season (and yet, many don't).

But ahead of the 2020 season, I think there were reasons for skepticism: that Rodgers's play at QB was not good enough to be a serious contender, that maybe even he was in decline. When we faced SF, we didn't look like we belonged (people keep talking about another WR, how about addressing the stuff that actually caused us to lose, e.g. stopping the run).

Ahead of 2021, yeah, Rodgers back in MVP form, *that* team seemed primed for great success (and yet, ended worse than the year before). And our draft that year did seem to reflect that, the guys we took seemed primed for more immediate impact than previous years.

Regardless of what you think about his level of commitment at that point, he was still going to be the best option we had at QB for those 2 years- regardless of whether we drafted a QB in round 1, 2020.

If motivating the current starting QB is the best that can come out of drafting a QB when the roster desperately needs a #2 WR, then it's not smart to draft a QB.

With the way Rodgers was playing 2018-2019, it was not hard to believe you could find a better option in the draft. Lamar Jackson won MVP the season before that draft as a second-year player. Lots of QBs on their rookie contracts were playing better ball than he was.

So it actually is a pretty smart move, provided you draft a good QB. You land a Jalen Hurts and suddenly it's a very different conversation. Now either Rodgers improves, and you just have the young QB wait a couple seasons and then have your good successor ready to go, or he doesn't, in which case you deal him much sooner (midseason or next year) and try to make a push while you have a good QB on the cheap deal (one of the only models that had any championship success at the time other than having Tom Brady).

[Scott4Pack]

After all this discussion, the only plausible explanation is that the beer guy at Lambeau is to blame.

No, wait...

The bratwurst guy! That's the guy to blame!

;-)