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But ahead of the 2020 season, I think there were reasons for skepticism: that Rodgers's play at QB was not good enough to be a serious contender, that maybe even he was in decline. When we faced SF, we didn't look like we belonged (people keep talking about another WR, how about addressing the stuff that actually caused us to lose, e.g. stopping the run).
who is it that thought Rodgers was in decline in 2019, I'd like to see the names on that list, from 2016 on the talent on offense was in decline, McCarthy almost refused to run the ball, the receivers didn't fit McCarthy's pass schemes.
2019 brought in Lafleur and a completely different offense approach, and eventually the ofrfense started to improve, anyone that says Rodgers wasn't any good in that transition is talking out there a ss
no one that knows this game would say Rodgers was the problem that year, thats nothing but a defense for this GM moving up and drafting Love, and a shallow one at that.
Hey Yoop, nice post. I didn’t write that though. No idea how my name ended up in your quoted post.
Thanks Papa, thats happened to me before, it's probably my fault
all I know is that to say Rodgers was in decline in 17,18,19 is to over look why, everything McCarthy did was in decline, didn't have scheme specific talent, then Lafleur brought a completely different set of schemes, no QB will play MVP level under those conditions, and members that can't or wont accept that, don't want to, there agenda has always been to degrade Rodgers, in order to defend the some of the chaotic team building going on since 2016
But drafting Love, or a QB in general, ... not what I would have done, but I can see the logic behind it. I mean, if that pick is Jalen Hurts (and looks as good as he does now) then nobody is relitigating and criticizing this pick.
It wouldn't have made any sense to select Hurts in the first round of the 2020 draft either. As I have said a lot of times since the 2020 the criticism about that pick has nothing to do with Love but the position that was selected.
I mean by and large your draft picks will be backups their rookie season when you are a contending football team.They are a rookie.
Trent McDuffie, Jaylen Watson and Joshua Williams ranked second, third and fourth in snaps played at cornerback for the Super Bowl champions Kansas City Chiefs last season. All of them were rookies.
But drafting Love, or a QB in general, ... not what I would have done, but I can see the logic behind it. I mean, if that pick is Jalen Hurts (and looks as good as he does now) then nobody is relitigating and criticizing this pick.
It wouldn't have made any sense to select Hurts in the first round of the 2020 draft either. As I have said a lot of times since the 2020 the criticism about that pick has nothing to do with Love but the position that was selected.
I mean by and large your draft picks will be backups their rookie season when you are a contending football team.They are a rookie.
Trent McDuffie, Jaylen Watson and Joshua Williams ranked second, third and fourth in snaps played at cornerback for the Super Bowl champions Kansas City Chiefs last season. All of them were rookies.
Yeah the Chiefs also won with a great #1 receiver (Kelce) and MVS level guys for the next option.
What the Chiefs did was pretty special. Definitely raised my level of respect for Reid, Mahommes and the rest of the Chiefs leaders.
But drafting Love, or a QB in general, ... not what I would have done, but I can see the logic behind it. I mean, if that pick is Jalen Hurts (and looks as good as he does now) then nobody is relitigating and criticizing this pick.
It wouldn't have made any sense to select Hurts in the first round of the 2020 draft either. As I have said a lot of times since the 2020 the criticism about that pick has nothing to do with Love but the position that was selected.
I mean by and large your draft picks will be backups their rookie season when you are a contending football team.They are a rookie.
Trent McDuffie, Jaylen Watson and Joshua Williams ranked second, third and fourth in snaps played at cornerback for the Super Bowl champions Kansas City Chiefs last season. All of them were rookies.
Yeah the Chiefs also won with a great #1 receiver (Kelce) and MVS level guys for the next option.
What the Chiefs did was pretty special. Definitely raised my level of respect for Reid, Mahommes and the rest of the Chiefs leaders.
his point has been mine for ages, rookies do start every year and on any team, we have been in this mind set around here that rookies need to develop behind a starter for a season, while thats true for a lot of rookies, specially mid top late rounders, it's doesn't hold true for most first round players, in fact the reason there first rounders isn't just there talent level, it's also readiness to play at this level.
what about Valentine? we just voted that rookie player of the week.
It wouldn't have made any sense to select Hurts in the first round of the 2020 draft either. As I have said a lot of times since the 2020 the criticism about that pick has nothing to do with Love but the position that was selected.
Trent McDuffie, Jaylen Watson and Joshua Williams ranked second, third and fourth in snaps played at cornerback for the Super Bowl champions Kansas City Chiefs last season. All of them were rookies.
Yeah the Chiefs also won with a great #1 receiver (Kelce) and MVS level guys for the next option.
What the Chiefs did was pretty special. Definitely raised my level of respect for Reid, Mahommes and the rest of the Chiefs leaders.
his point has been mine for ages, rookies do start every year and on any team, we have been in this mind set around here that rookies need to develop behind a starter for a season, while thats true for a lot of rookies, specially mid top late rounders, it's doesn't hold true for most first round players, in fact the reason there first rounders isn't just there talent level, it's also readiness to play at this level.
what about Valentine? we just voted that rookie player of the week.
Yeah I don't know what the overarching argument here is. Is it because we only had one impactful rookie in 2020? Because Gute has an okay bat rate of rookies contributing in his career. Even early on when the Packers had a solid roster.
2018 - Alexander, Jackson, MVS (Jackson was decent his rookie year)
2019 - Savage and Jenkins
2020 - Runyan
2021 - Stokes, Myers, Newman (Hill would have been had he not gotten hurt)
2022 - Walker, Wyatt, Watson, Doubs
2023 - LVN, Reed, Musgrave, Wicks, Brooks, Carlson, Valentine
And again, AJ Dillon was your 2020 piece. He was effective in that perilous game. MLF just didn't give him the ball.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
the point is that rookies can play and play well, Dillon and Runyan played as rookies, not as well as some others, if Watson hadn't had surgery then he and Rodgers would have developed some chemistry sooner and Watson could have been a K receiver.
rookies playing has been a after thought under Mike McCarthy and Rodgers, the mindset that mistakes lose games was prevalent under both, to a point, I agree, however, Cobb was as ready to play as any receiver we've ever drafted, GJ, Adams as well, same with other players over that time frame, when necessity demand we play them, well Valentine isn't the only stud muffin to do so in a big way, remember Sammy quick at foot Shields.
obviously if a team has a loaded roster there is no room for Rookies to break in, wow give that thought a fat cigar, no kidding, yes KC is out of the ordinary, but who here said rookies would fill a roster..
6+ games started by a rookie for Super Bowl participants:
...
And the Packers in 2010 had three rookies who started 6 or more, Bulaga in round 1 and Shields and Zombo undrafted. All those extra high picks that weren't much used, and undrafted players were. There really are no guarantees.
It wouldn't have made any sense to select Hurts in the first round of the 2020 draft either. As I have said a lot of times since the 2020 the criticism about that pick has nothing to do with Love but the position that was selected.
But the only valid criticism should be about the player. By your argument, all the teams that failed to pick Aaron Rodgers all those years ago, could be said to have done right - not because a Hall of Fame QB wouldn't have helped the team long term, but because it wouldn't have helped that season.
Poll ended too soon, replace this GM at the end of the season.
Welcome, I like your avatar!
The sticky thing is Murphy will be retiring in 2025, in June at the latest. If Gutey gets fired, the new GM will essentially be a lame duck until the new president comes in.
“We didn’t lose the game; we just ran out of time.”
- Vince Lombardi
Poll ended too soon, replace this GM at the end of the season.
Welcome, I like your avatar!
The sticky thing is Murphy will be retiring in 2025, in June at the latest. If Gutey gets fired, the new GM will essentially be a lame duck until the new president comes in.
Thanks, glad you like my avatar, had to work on the original picture to achieve this result. My 1st attempt to join this forum failed as I somehow evaporated the e-mail with the link needed to secure the deal. I was going to be TheVirginian and my avatar was going to be a smiling George Washington. I think now that this may have turned out even better.
GB's management needs a massive change, a new fresh hungry breed that wants nothing more than to win , not just balance the books and cash the checks. Some in the past had that hunger, hope we can get that gamblers spirit back instead of someone fielding enough players to meet the league minimums. Without a single owner who can act, GB I fear will have to suffer along with this GM as even more starters jump ship for greater rewards.
A pleasure to meet you, hope we speak again. Go Pack Go !
If your not the lead dog, then the scenery never changes.
Poll ended too soon, replace this GM at the end of the season.
Welcome, I like your avatar!
The sticky thing is Murphy will be retiring in 2025, in June at the latest. If Gutey gets fired, the new GM will essentially be a lame duck until the new president comes in.
I sadly think what is going to happen is Gutenbumst is able to justify that LaFleur isn’t his guy. Murphy hired him and LaFleur has consistently hired terrible coaches which is all true. So Murphy allows LaFleur to be fired and Gutenbumst hires his own HC.
The following year Murphy is forced to retire and someone replaces him but the team still isn’t doing well and, well Gutenbumst isn’t his guy either so he fired him after seeing the atrocities he’s committed against this organization over the years.
But the new GM taking over realizes the HC isn’t his guy either so we fire him and the new GM gets his own guy. So we are just spinning through front office personnel and coaches over the next two years.
Just clean house and find one single vision and focus moving forward. Thanks for sprucing up the GB area and bring the draft to Titletown but you aren’t a football guy Murphy.
Poll ended too soon, replace this GM at the end of the season.
The sticky thing is Murphy will be retiring in 2025, in June at the latest. If Gutey gets fired, the new GM will essentially be a lame duck until the new president comes in.
I sadly think what is going to happen is Gutenbumst is able to justify that LaFleur isn’t his guy. Murphy hired him and LaFleur has consistently hired terrible coaches which is all true. So Murphy allows LaFleur to be fired and Gutenbumst hires his own HC.
The following year Murphy is forced to retire and someone replaces him but the team still isn’t doing well and, well Gutenbumst isn’t his guy either so he fired him after seeing the atrocities he’s committed against this organization over the years.
But the new GM taking over realizes the HC isn’t his guy either so we fire him and the new GM gets his own guy. So we are just spinning through front office personnel and coaches over the next two years.
Just clean house and find one single vision and focus moving forward. Thanks for sprucing up the GB area and bring the draft to Titletown but you aren’t a football guy Murphy.
I believe that you are both right and wrong on this. Murphy knows that LaFleur and entire coaching staff are top of the line people. Furthermore, he will know that his time in running down and will want to make corrections before he retires. I believe that he will fire Gutekunst at the end of this season and hire a new GM that will work well with LaFleur. LaFleur and the new GM working with their staffs will wheel, deal, trade, and draft to a better team over the 2024 and 2025 seasons. Love may or may not be retained, but this and the following seasons will be rough ones for the Packers. By then Murphy will be out, a new GM will be in, and the quality of the players will improve.
How quickly we forget that when LaFleur arrived they went on a tear winning games. Then the best players started to leave for various reasons. GB is just a shell of it's former self. Yes the ST's coach was replaced and rightfully so. GB is a shadow of the team that LaFleur took over. Don't blame a good coach because the GM gutted the team ! An old phrase applies here, "you don't through out the baby with the bath water".
If your not the lead dog, then the scenery never changes.
But the only valid criticism should be about the player. By your argument, all the teams that failed to pick Aaron Rodgers all those years ago, could be said to have done right - not because a Hall of Fame QB wouldn't have helped the team long term, but because it wouldn't have helped that season.
None of those teams which get criticized for not selecting Rodgers in the 2005 draft had a HOF QB on the roster and was coming off making it to the NFCCG the previous year though.
But the only valid criticism should be about the player. By your argument, all the teams that failed to pick Aaron Rodgers all those years ago, could be said to have done right - not because a Hall of Fame QB wouldn't have helped the team long term, but because it wouldn't have helped that season.
None of those teams which get criticized for not selecting Rodgers in the 2005 draft had a HOF QB on the roster and was coming off making it to the NFCCG the previous year though.
Are you saying that if the Packers had won a couple more games in 2004, then drafting Rodgers would have been a mistake?
But the only valid criticism should be about the player. By your argument, all the teams that failed to pick Aaron Rodgers all those years ago, could be said to have done right - not because a Hall of Fame QB wouldn't have helped the team long term, but because it wouldn't have helped that season.
None of those teams which get criticized for not selecting Rodgers in the 2005 draft had a HOF QB on the roster and was coming off making it to the NFCCG the previous year though.
Are you saying that if the Packers had won a couple more games in 2004, then drafting Rodgers would have been a mistake?
Exactly right. If this happened two weeks later...Ted Thompson had NO BUSINESS drafting Rodgers.
But it happened in the Wildcard Round so you know...revisionist history justified.
None of those teams which get criticized for not selecting Rodgers in the 2005 draft had a HOF QB on the roster and was coming off making it to the NFCCG the previous year though.
Are you saying that if the Packers had won a couple more games in 2004, then drafting Rodgers would have been a mistake?
Exactly right. If this happened two weeks later...Ted Thompson had NO BUSINESS drafting Rodgers.
But it happened in the Wildcard Round so you know...revisionist history justified.
And frankly for all the hand-wringing about not getting Rodgers enough weapons at WR, in Favre's case that was actually a legitimate grievance. Rodgers had fewer years with sub-par WRs than Favre had years of good ones.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
Are you saying that if the Packers had won a couple more games in 2004, then drafting Rodgers would have been a mistake?
Exactly right. If this happened two weeks later...Ted Thompson had NO BUSINESS drafting Rodgers.
But it happened in the Wildcard Round so you know...revisionist history justified.
And frankly for all the hand-wringing about not getting Rodgers enough weapons at WR, in Favre's case that was actually a legitimate grievance. Rodgers had fewer years with sub-par WRs than Favre had years of good ones.
so then two wrongs make what? when Favre had quality receivers he won a SB, when Rodgers had quality receivers he won a SB, when neither had them they didn't
and Ted didn't go looking for replacement QB, Rodger dropped to our slot, Guty traded up to take Love, it's hardly the same.
so then two wrongs make what? when Favre had quality receivers he won a SB, when Rodgers had quality receivers he won a SB, when neither had them they didn't
Rodgers was not wronged at all, not even close to how much Favre was, even Tom Brady didn't get as many good WRs as Rodgers did over their careers (and won multiple titles with WRs you would have complained are not good enough for Rodgers).
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
