Packers @ Steelers GDT: Sunday, Nov. 12th, 12:00 PM CST

[lupedafiasco]

But Lupe said I can't blame Barry. Because the Packers have sucked for years at that, Barry doesn't have to do his job well because his bosses are inept.

Must be freeing to know you can suck at your job and someone else gets blamed all the time.

I didn’t say you can’t blame Barry. You’re being absurd. I’m just saying look at the bigger problem which is just not having good players on defense. Gary doesn’t set and edge and misses tackles. Preston is average at best and declining. Clark has declined and looked very bad. Campbell hasn’t looked good since that magic All Pro year. Jonathan Owens is bad. Wyatt doesn’t play the run well.

Barry can’t tackle for the defense. It is ironic though that Gutenbumst is the one sucking at his job and having someone e blamed for it.

It's a thread about this game. Gutey doesn't have to be brought up in every thread or post. Yes, he's a problem. Just because I don't bring him up every other post, doesn't mean I don't see that. I'll bitch about gutey when it's his turn. Lot of other people to blame right now.

This is Capers all over again. There are a bunch of players in the field that are not good.

[Pugger]

Don’t underestimate what winning can do for a young team trying to find its way.

The object of the game has never been to play for a better draft pick.

Of course not but this isn't a team that is going anywhere and like I said, with our cap issues getting blue chip players will come in the draft. I am glad to see Love is getting better. IMO if the team is getting better as the season goes along that is cause for optimism for the future.

I watched Detroit pick high in the draft for 20 years and never make a playoff game. I hope we never play for draft position. I couldn’t imagine rooting for my team to loose.

Well, someone over in Detroit finally got it right along with the right coach for those players.

Nobody at 1265 is playing for a draft position and no fans are rooting for the team to lose. It would have been great to win this game (and I still think we got jobbed on that lateral pass) but I figured this was going to be a challenging year so I'm not going to be upset here. IMO there was a lot more positives today even though we came up short. I think the future holds promise as long as we get a different DC. I do not care for the way Barry has these guys playing. The tackling is poor and guys are out of position too often.

[Pugger]

I didn’t say you can’t blame Barry. You’re being absurd. I’m just saying look at the bigger problem which is just not having good players on defense. Gary doesn’t set and edge and misses tackles. Preston is average at best and declining. Clark has declined and looked very bad. Campbell hasn’t looked good since that magic All Pro year. Jonathan Owens is bad. Wyatt doesn’t play the run well.

Barry can’t tackle for the defense. It is ironic though that Gutenbumst is the one sucking at his job and having someone e blamed for it.

It's a thread about this game. Gutey doesn't have to be brought up in every thread or post. Yes, he's a problem. Just because I don't bring him up every other post, doesn't mean I don't see that. I'll bitch about gutey when it's his turn. Lot of other people to blame right now.

This is Capers all over again. There are a bunch of players in the field that are not good.

The blame for Barry still being around should also be laid at the feet of MLF. Him keeping that clown as his DC makes me question his judgement big time.

[Labrev]

The D played the run fine when they called base defense. Their struggles to stop the run came mainly when they played nickel or that thrice-damned Nascar package while the opposing offense came out in 12 and 21.

So no, it has zilch to do with the GM not bringing in guys who can play the run; he patently did bring in guys who can stop the run. It's not that Barry can't go out and tackle for them, it's that Gute can't make Barry call the appropriate defense for the situation at-hand (and D-Coord is not Gute's purview, it's Matt's).

[German_Panzer]

I am also critical of Barry but as of right now we are 11th with 20.2 PPG allowed. That looks alright. Barry is no difference maker kind of DC and LaFleur should move him if a stud was available but right now he’s doing ok. We lose games bc of lame offense (and thats bc of Love and young receivers, so kind of expected). Just a typical rebuilding year like 2008. If Matt draws the right conclusions and grows the balls to execute them we’ll be fine. But that “If” is a big one though.

[musclestang]

Well, someone over in Detroit finally got it right along with the right coach for those players.

Nobody at 1265 is playing for a draft position and no fans are rooting for the team to lose. It would have been great to win this game (and I still think we got jobbed on that lateral pass) but I figured this was going to be a challenging year so I'm not going to be upset here. IMO there was a lot more positives today even though we came up short. I think the future holds promise as long as we get a different DC. I do not care for the way Barry has these guys playing. The tackling is poor and guys are out of position too often.

yes, after 2 decades and multiple wasted top 10 or better picks. The right coach, not because of better draft position.

anyway, you seemed to imply that losing was desired, and winning would be bad because it doesn't do anything but lower our draft position. i think winning does a lot for a young team.

I'm not upset with losing either, it comes with the territory of a young team.

But I will always maintain that figuring out a way to win yesterday's game was much more desired than losing so we don't drop in draft position.

[musclestang]

I am also critical of Barry but as of right now we are 11th with 20.2 PPG allowed. That looks alright. Barry is no difference maker kind of DC and LaFleur should move him if a stud was available but right now he’s doing ok. We lose games bc of lame offense (and thats bc of Love and young receivers, so kind of expected). Just a typical rebuilding year like 2008. If Matt draws the right conclusions and grows the balls to execute them we’ll be fine. But that “If” is a big one though.

We've played nobody. We should be destroying people on defense with who we've played so far.

They played OK yesterday at times, like they always do, and others couldn't stop anything. The Steelers don't have a prolific offense and we gave up 200yds rushing, again. I can't even think of all the times we had MN in a favorable down and distance for a defense on 3rd down and gave up like 10 in a row, it was pathetic.

[Yoop]

I am also critical of Barry but as of right now we are 11th with 20.2 PPG allowed. That looks alright. Barry is no difference maker kind of DC and LaFleur should move him if a stud was available but right now he’s doing ok. We lose games bc of lame offense (and thats bc of Love and young receivers, so kind of expected). Just a typical rebuilding year like 2008. If Matt draws the right conclusions and grows the balls to execute them we’ll be fine. But that “If” is a big one though.

We've played nobody. We should be destroying people on defense with who we've played so far.

They played OK yesterday at times, like they always do, and others couldn't stop anything. The Steelers don't have a prolific offense and we gave up 200yds rushing, again. I can't even think of all the times we had MN in a favorable down and distance for a defense on 3rd down and gave up like 10 in a row, it was pathetic.

the bend but don't break philosophy isn't getting the defense off the field, it burns clock and keeps our offense on the bench.

we brought in Wooden and Brooks so we can play base front, without over working the likes of Wyatt and Clark, but Barry rarely ever uses a 30 front, here we are with light front, poor lber play, limited safety ability, rookie CB's, the strongest group we have is the DL and Barry limits that.

how do we explain some of this atrociously stupid play from Aaron Jones or this defense, it almost seems like there trying to lose.

ya work on a trick play, and Jones can't even make a simple catch, and that decision to cut inside at the end of the game, a 10 year old would understand that the only option was to make sure he went out of bounds to stop the clock, he single handedly made sure we'd have possibly 1 maybe just 2 plays left.

decent pass pro, and &%$@ run blocking again, ya watch how Pitts run block and it's understandable that they got 200 yrds against us, there blocking is night and day better then us, we need to rebuild this OL

Painful to watch this team stumble along, even worse to watch it's best players do what Jones did.

[paco]

I am also critical of Barry but as of right now we are 11th with 20.2 PPG allowed. That looks alright. Barry is no difference maker kind of DC and LaFleur should move him if a stud was available but right now he’s doing ok. We lose games bc of lame offense (and thats bc of Love and young receivers, so kind of expected). Just a typical rebuilding year like 2008. If Matt draws the right conclusions and grows the balls to execute them we’ll be fine. But that “If” is a big one though.

We've played nobody. We should be destroying people on defense with who we've played so far.

They played OK yesterday at times, like they always do, and others couldn't stop anything. The Steelers don't have a prolific offense and we gave up 200yds rushing, again. I can't even think of all the times we had MN in a favorable down and distance for a defense on 3rd down and gave up like 10 in a row, it was pathetic.

Exactly. Bears, Falcons, Saints, Raiders, Broncos, Rams, Steelers. That's an impressive schedule of mediocrity (at best) to go up against. We still get the Giants, Bucs, Panthers, and Bears again. Face it, if we a mediocre team, we should have a playoff worthy record.

But we aren't. Is what it is. Get through the year, try to figure out who is worth keeping of the young guys (there is stuff to work with on this team), and move forward.

[Drj820]

yal gotta admit tho, several years into Garys career, hes basically a one trick pony. Hes very good at his one trick, but its still only one trick.

[paco]

yal gotta admit tho, several years into Garys career, hes basically a one trick pony. Hes very good at his one trick, but its still only one trick.

I'm fine with that. If he's great at it, its a good thing to be great at. Just need the pieces around him to compliment it. Which we don't have.

[Papa John]

People will tell me that it's a rebuild year and cut them some slack but I can't hold back. This defense is a piece of &%$@. We have watched the same defense with different personnel and coaches for the past decade plus. Just plug and play new players and coaches, and get THE SAME POS PRODUCT. Can't stop the run. SOFT. WEAK. We need what's called a pattern interrupt. Someone with charisma, passion, and knowledge who comes into the building and blows up our culture of complacency. I can just picture the pussies who run this franchise in the boardroom- "well that's just the way it's always been." *Throws up arms* Time to say bye bye to the country club boys and bring in someone who knows about ass kicking.

[go pak go]

People will tell me that it's a rebuild year and cut them some slack but I can't hold back. This defense is a piece of &%$@. We have watched the same defense with different personnel and coaches for the past decade plus. Just plug and play new players and coaches, and get THE SAME POS PRODUCT. Can't stop the run. SOFT. WEAK. We need what's called a pattern interrupt. Someone with charisma, passion, and knowledge who comes into the building and blows up our culture of complacency. I can just picture the pussies who run this franchise in the boardroom- "well that's just the way it's always been." *Throws up arms* Time to say bye bye to the country club boys and bring in someone who knows about ass kicking.

Yeah. I just wish we went into yesterday daring Pickett to beat us. Instead we lose against a quarterback who throws for like 160 yards but RBs who ramble for over 200 yards.

Like we knew what the Steelers wanted to do. And yet still played petrified to not get beat deep.

At this point I want to lose getting beat deep. Because then it at least means we are going for it.

[Labrev]

This game is why I say stopping the run is fundamental to good defense, and the pass-addled people here don't get that.

If you can't stop the run, even a QB that throws for 160 yards with no TDs can beat you, what to say of any good QBs you face.

[Yoop]

This game is why I say stopping the run is fundamental to good defense, and the pass-addled people here don't get that.

If you can't stop the run, even a QB that throws for 160 yards with no TDs can beat you, what to say of any good QBs you face.

all you have to do is stop the run from moving the chains, and we could have done that yesterday by simply playing more base front, we have the DL talent to stop the run, however the philosophy here is stopping the big play and playing nickel coverage which amounts to 20 front, 2 DT two OLB/DE's, I have to mention though, our DE/OLB's are in reference only, because they are really just DE's, this is a hybrid 40 front designed more for pass rush then to stop the run.

wanna play more base front, then we need a OLB that can drop and cover

[Labrev]

This game is why I say stopping the run is fundamental to good defense, and the pass-addled people here don't get that.

If you can't stop the run, even a QB that throws for 160 yards with no TDs can beat you, what to say of any good QBs you face.

all you have to do is stop the run from moving the chains,

Duh. That is what "stop the run" has always meant, not that literally we need to hold opposing rushing yards to 0 or less.

[lupedafiasco]

This game is why I say stopping the run is fundamental to good defense, and the pass-addled people here don't get that.

If you can't stop the run, even a QB that throws for 160 yards with no TDs can beat you, what to say of any good QBs you face.

all you have to do is stop the run from moving the chains,

Duh. That is what "stop the run" has always meant, not that literally we need to hold opposing rushing yards to 0 or less.

Gotta have the players to do it. We have CBs. We have pass rushers. We have ILBs that are good in coverage.

What we don’t have is ILBs that can blow up the run. We don’t have edge players that hold the edge. We have safeties that can’t tackle. We have interiors guys not playing to their responsibilities.

I’ve said for years it doesn’t make sense the way we have built a team that is great in 3rd and longs only to have such a bad run defense to never be in 3rd and long. I don’t like Barry but there’s a roster philosophy problem here.

[Yoop]

This game is why I say stopping the run is fundamental to good defense, and the pass-addled people here don't get that.

If you can't stop the run, even a QB that throws for 160 yards with no TDs can beat you, what to say of any good QBs you face.

all you have to do is stop the run from moving the chains,

Duh. That is what "stop the run" has always meant, not that literally we need to hold opposing rushing yards to 0 or less.

I got that, and it's why I attempted to explain to you why we struggle, also we rarely have had to worry about teams beating us running the ball, or have you already forgotten who our QB has been for half of your adult life

really make a difference when ya can jump to a two score lead within the first 5 minutes of a game, it forces opposers to pass the ball, I wish Love was Aaron Rodgers good, Pitts would have been forced to pass yesterday

[BF004]

People will tell me that it's a rebuild year and cut them some slack but I can't hold back. This defense is a piece of &%$@. We have watched the same defense with different personnel and coaches for the past decade plus. Just plug and play new players and coaches, and get THE SAME POS PRODUCT. Can't stop the run. SOFT. WEAK. We need what's called a pattern interrupt. Someone with charisma, passion, and knowledge who comes into the building and blows up our culture of complacency. I can just picture the pussies who run this franchise in the boardroom- "well that's just the way it's always been." *Throws up arms* Time to say bye bye to the country club boys and bring in someone who knows about ass kicking.

Yeah. I just wish we went into yesterday daring Pickett to beat us. Instead we lose against a quarterback who throws for like 160 yards but RBs who ramble for over 200 yards.

Like we knew what the Steelers wanted to do. And yet still played petrified to not get beat deep.

At this point I want to lose getting beat deep. Because then it at least means we are going for it.

I've been saying this for years. Make a big play either way, get a sack, a pick or give up a TD. Either way, don't give up these 5-8 minute drives just letting them run for 4-6 yards a pop every play. Get off the field, let the O get more chances to control the TOP.

[Labrev]

all you have to do is stop the run from moving the chains,

Duh. That is what "stop the run" has always meant, not that literally we need to hold opposing rushing yards to 0 or less.

Gotta have the players to do it. We have CBs. We have pass rushers. We have ILBs that are good in coverage.

What we don’t have is ILBs that can blow up the run. We don’t have edge players that hold the edge. We have safeties that can’t tackle. We have interiors guys not playing to their responsibilities.

I’ve said for years it doesn’t make sense the way we have built a team that is great in 3rd and longs only to have such a bad run defense to never be in 3rd and long. I don’t like Barry but there’s a roster philosophy problem here.

And your assessment is utterly incorrect; this roster you claim lacks run-stopping ability shows they can stop the run fine when lined up in Base, or really any formation that matches up correctly for the personnel in front of it, unlike subbing out a LB for a CB when the opposing team brings in extra blocking TEs.