Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2023

[Yoop]

Kyle Shanahan purportedly said that when asked about Brock Purdy's personal trainer/QB coach.


https://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/kyle-sh ... purdy.html

then I expect one way or the other that that trainers is on some sort of contract with the team

and the point is that teams with expensive QB's don't shy away from bringing in good skill position talent, Lupe just showed what the last 3 SB winners did, each brought in a skill position player to further there chances of winning.

people that defend what went o n here between drafting Adams and Watson do so to defend that insanity, there isn't a sports person alive that would
and those where the first 3 or 4 teams I even looked into, this talk that teams can't afford skill position talent with a expensive QB is not exactly true, they can except all there resources go elsewhere, was our defense worth it, hell no,

So we just gonna ignore paying Jimmy Graham and pretend we never went after large targets?

Just because it didn't work doesn't mean there wasn't effort which is what you are pushing. Tonyan was slated to be the next high paid guy until his injury in 2021.

There is always lots to the story.

good point, it shows effort, same with Bennett, and that other TE who actually did play pretty well, who we decided Bennett would be better then, thing is though TE's are rarely as productive as a good receiver

[Yoop]

I said basically the same thing, but whats the use, this room defends not getting Rodgers better talent, so I deleted my post, that throw to MVS was 60 yrds air, spot on, thats what a strong arm looks like.

Turns out when you have a QB making that kind of money it's exponentially harder to surround him with high end skill position players?

This is BS. Its completely possible to surround a QB with talent even with a top of market deal. We literally did it with Rodgers when he was throwing to Nelson, Cobb, and Adams. We invested in the position. Peyton Manning routinely had the WR invested in even when he went to the Broncos. Right now Lamar Jackson on average is making $52M a year and they just brought in OBJ and drafted Zay Flowers on top of having Mark Andrews and spent a first a few years ago on WR as well. Joe Burrow is the highest paid QB in the league and has Chase, Higgins, and Boyd with Joe Mixon at RB. Justin Herbert is the second highest paid QB with Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekler, and went and spent a 1st on Johnston. Russell Wilson is 5th on the pay scale and has Courtland Sutton, Jerry Jeudy, and Tim Patrick. Josh Allen is 9th on the pay scale and he already had Diggs, Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox and they drafted Kincaid in the first. Dak Prescott is 11th and with Ceedee Lamb and Michael Gallup and they bring in Bradin Cooks.

This is debunked.

easy man, Matt just made a simple statement

good points Lupe, as I said just a bunch of excuses to defend the ineptness that went on here for years.

[Pckfn23]

There is some truth to it, however. In the first year of the salary cap, 1994, Steve Young took up 13.1% of the cap. That percentage was never eclipsed by a single player winning the Super Bowl until Mahomes did it in February.
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2023/3/3 ... omes-broke

[Labrev]

Turns out when you have a QB making that kind of money it's exponentially harder to surround him with high end skill position players?

This is BS. Its completely possible to surround a QB with talent even with a top of market deal. We literally did it with Rodgers when he was throwing to Nelson, Cobb, and Adams. We invested in the position. Peyton Manning routinely had the WR invested in even when he went to the Broncos. Right now Lamar Jackson on average is making $52M a year and they just brought in OBJ and drafted Zay Flowers on top of having Mark Andrews and spent a first a few years ago on WR as well. Joe Burrow is the highest paid QB in the league and has Chase, Higgins, and Boyd with Joe Mixon at RB. Justin Herbert is the second highest paid QB with Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekler, and went and spent a 1st on Johnston. Russell Wilson is 5th on the pay scale and has Courtland Sutton, Jerry Jeudy, and Tim Patrick. Josh Allen is 9th on the pay scale and he already had Diggs, Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox and they drafted Kincaid in the first. Dak Prescott is 11th and with Ceedee Lamb and Michael Gallup and they bring in Bradin Cooks.

This is debunked.

well done Lupe, as I said just a bunch of excuses to defend the ineptness that went on here for years.

Except it's already been explained why Jackson and Burrow examples are a non-starter. Herbert also got that deal earlier this year.

Jeudy is a bust, Tim Patrick lol give me a break. That "vaunted" WR group put up less than 20 points on us. Those WRs also predated the addition of Wilson at QB, they built up the supporting cast on O because they didn't have an elite QB that patently makes roster-building difficult.

Allen and Prescott at 9 and 11 are **considerably** less expensive than Rodgers was. Bills O has been so poor they fired the O-Coord.

[Yoop]

There is some truth to it, however. In the first year of the salary cap, 1994, Steve Young took up 13.1% of the cap. That percentage was never eclipsed by a single player winning the Super Bowl until Mahomes did it in February.
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2023/3/3 ... omes-broke

well obviously paying one player a lot leaves less for others, I don't think anyone is arguing that, times have changed now though since UFA, teams do basically what we did, build for a 2 to 4 year window, kick contracts forward and bring in as much talent for that run as you are able to, in my and some others opinions we didn't complete that all in task, in fact where near avoided that position all together, unless ya count Amari Rodgers and the stooges that ended up like a bandaid on open heart surgery

[Yoop]

This is BS. Its completely possible to surround a QB with talent even with a top of market deal. We literally did it with Rodgers when he was throwing to Nelson, Cobb, and Adams. We invested in the position. Peyton Manning routinely had the WR invested in even when he went to the Broncos. Right now Lamar Jackson on average is making $52M a year and they just brought in OBJ and drafted Zay Flowers on top of having Mark Andrews and spent a first a few years ago on WR as well. Joe Burrow is the highest paid QB in the league and has Chase, Higgins, and Boyd with Joe Mixon at RB. Justin Herbert is the second highest paid QB with Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekler, and went and spent a 1st on Johnston. Russell Wilson is 5th on the pay scale and has Courtland Sutton, Jerry Jeudy, and Tim Patrick. Josh Allen is 9th on the pay scale and he already had Diggs, Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox and they drafted Kincaid in the first. Dak Prescott is 11th and with Ceedee Lamb and Michael Gallup and they bring in Bradin Cooks.

This is debunked.

well done Lupe, as I said just a bunch of excuses to defend the ineptness that went on here for years.

Except it's already been explained why Jackson and Burrow examples are a non-starter. Herbert also got that deal earlier this year.

Jeudy is a bust, Tim Patrick lol give me a break. That "vaunted" WR group put up less than 20 points on us.

Allen and Prescott at 9 and 11 are **considerably** less expensive than Rodgers was. Bills O has been so poor they fired the O-Coord.

doesn't so much matter that Jeudy is a bust, the point is they used a top resource to make that position better

now your just splitting hairs, neither where that much cheaper, still what did we do, almost nothing, and did almost nothing for 8 years.

we had arguably the best passing QB in the league, and gave him Amari, never saw a punt he couldn't screw up, and 3 mid rounders that really never became better then #3 field stretchers.to go with Adams, I doubt I know of a GM besides ours that would have done that to him.

to think because a QB makes more money that he should be expected to carry the team is such insane thinking, just more defense for a inept GM

[lupedafiasco]

This is BS. Its completely possible to surround a QB with talent even with a top of market deal. We literally did it with Rodgers when he was throwing to Nelson, Cobb, and Adams. We invested in the position. Peyton Manning routinely had the WR invested in even when he went to the Broncos. Right now Lamar Jackson on average is making $52M a year and they just brought in OBJ and drafted Zay Flowers on top of having Mark Andrews and spent a first a few years ago on WR as well. Joe Burrow is the highest paid QB in the league and has Chase, Higgins, and Boyd with Joe Mixon at RB. Justin Herbert is the second highest paid QB with Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekler, and went and spent a 1st on Johnston. Russell Wilson is 5th on the pay scale and has Courtland Sutton, Jerry Jeudy, and Tim Patrick. Josh Allen is 9th on the pay scale and he already had Diggs, Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox and they drafted Kincaid in the first. Dak Prescott is 11th and with Ceedee Lamb and Michael Gallup and they bring in Bradin Cooks.

This is debunked.

well done Lupe, as I said just a bunch of excuses to defend the ineptness that went on here for years.

Except it's already been explained why Jackson and Burrow examples are a non-starter. Herbert also got that deal earlier this year.

Jeudy is a bust, Tim Patrick lol give me a break. That "vaunted" WR group put up less than 20 points on us.

Allen and Prescott at 9 and 11 are **considerably** less expensive than Rodgers was. Bills O has been so poor they fired the O-Coord.

I'm not saying theyre great players but theyre attempted investments into the position. We didnt attempt to invest anything better than a 3rd round pick of Amari Rodgers into the position.

[Labrev]

and the point is that teams with expensive QB's don't shy away from bringing in good skill position talent, Lupe just showed what the last 3 SB winners did, each brought in a skill position player to further there chances of winning.

Tampa and LA built their teams in reverse of the QBs. Tampa built up a strong supporting cast on O because they had no expensive QB on the roster and kept getting high draft picks because of how bad they were, then they got an elite QB to join them after the fact.

LA had Goff on a rookie deal, built up the O while he was cheap, then traded for a QB upgrade. Their situations were nothing like GB.

And how long did those high-powered offenses last? Tampa was mediocre last year, and now they are a shell of the SB team. Rams completely fell apart the next year and are in an even bigger rebuild than this team.

As for KC...

people that defend what went o n here between drafting Adams and Watson do so to defend that insanity,

Okay, so you started out by agreeing with someone that Mahomes is in the same boat as Rodgers has been for the past few years, yet have been doing nothing but breathlessly defending KC's roster-building strategy that led to the outcome that you call "insanity."

Sounds like you will have to join us the insane asylum.

[Madcity_matt]

Turns out when you have a QB making that kind of money it's exponentially harder to surround him with high end skill position players?

This is BS. Its completely possible to surround a QB with talent even with a top of market deal. We literally did it with Rodgers when he was throwing to Nelson, Cobb, and Adams. We invested in the position. Peyton Manning routinely had the WR invested in even when he went to the Broncos. Right now Lamar Jackson on average is making $52M a year and they just brought in OBJ and drafted Zay Flowers on top of having Mark Andrews and spent a first a few years ago on WR as well. Joe Burrow is the highest paid QB in the league and has Chase, Higgins, and Boyd with Joe Mixon at RB. Justin Herbert is the second highest paid QB with Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekler, and went and spent a 1st on Johnston. Russell Wilson is 5th on the pay scale and has Courtland Sutton, Jerry Jeudy, and Tim Patrick. Josh Allen is 9th on the pay scale and he already had Diggs, Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox and they drafted Kincaid in the first. Dak Prescott is 11th and with Ceedee Lamb and Michael Gallup and they bring in Bradin Cooks.

This is debunked.

easy man, Matt just made a simple statement

good points Lupe, as I said just a bunch of excuses to defend the ineptness that went on here for years.

2023 cap hit
Lamar 22mil
Burrow 19.5
Herbert (new example from what I already explained.) want to guess how they are paying Allen and Ekeler? 8.45 Million Yes you read that right
Wilson has $hit receivers and counts 22

Far cry from 40-50 mil. Come back and talk to me when Herbert hits the meat of the deal. 2025 38 mil,2026 46 mil, 2026 58 mil, 2027 71!!! Mil

KC is getting into the meat of it now. The last few years of Rodgers we had already pushed a bunch of money forward (hello dead cap!) and even with shwanky math we weren't going to be able to bring in a stud. It's not an apples to apples arguemnt. more like apples and basketballs. But why do I try to explain with logic. It won't matter.

[lupedafiasco]

This is BS. Its completely possible to surround a QB with talent even with a top of market deal. We literally did it with Rodgers when he was throwing to Nelson, Cobb, and Adams. We invested in the position. Peyton Manning routinely had the WR invested in even when he went to the Broncos. Right now Lamar Jackson on average is making $52M a year and they just brought in OBJ and drafted Zay Flowers on top of having Mark Andrews and spent a first a few years ago on WR as well. Joe Burrow is the highest paid QB in the league and has Chase, Higgins, and Boyd with Joe Mixon at RB. Justin Herbert is the second highest paid QB with Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekler, and went and spent a 1st on Johnston. Russell Wilson is 5th on the pay scale and has Courtland Sutton, Jerry Jeudy, and Tim Patrick. Josh Allen is 9th on the pay scale and he already had Diggs, Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox and they drafted Kincaid in the first. Dak Prescott is 11th and with Ceedee Lamb and Michael Gallup and they bring in Bradin Cooks.

This is debunked.

easy man, Matt just made a simple statement

good points Lupe, as I said just a bunch of excuses to defend the ineptness that went on here for years.

2023 cap hit
Lamar 22mil
Burrow 19.5
Herbert (new example from what I already explained.) want to guess how they are paying Allen and Ekeler? 8.45 Million Yes you read that right
Wilson has $hit receivers and counts 22

Far cry from 40-50 mil. Come back and talk to me when Herbert hits the meat of the deal. 2025 38 mil,2026 46 mil, 2026 58 mil, 2027 71!!! Mil

KC is getting into the meat of it now. The last few years of Rodgers we had already pushed a bunch of money forward (hello dead cap!) and even with shwanky math we weren't going to be able to bring in a stud. It's not an apples to apples arguemnt. more like apples and basketballs. But why do I try to explain with logic. It won't matter.

Rodgers cap hit since taking Adams
2015: $18.2M
2016: $19.2M
2017: $20.3M
2018: $20.9M
2019: $29.3M
2020: $21.6M
2021: $27.5M
2022: $28.5M

So whats the excuse for 2017, 2018, and championship window 2020? Maybe if we werent paying bigger deals to bad players or unpremium positions like Dean Lowry, Kevin King, Billy Turder, Mercedes Lewis, Jimmy Graham, etc... On top of that we misused our draft resources by getting players who gave us absolutely no value riding the bench during years they should have been highly impactful. Everyone is so quick to jump all over Rodgers stealing money he earned and no one wants to mention the absurdity of some of those deals.

Paying Aaron Jones while drafting AJ Dillon in the 2nd round to play 3rd string year one and 2nd string his entire rookie deal. Jordan Love riding the bench almost his entire rookie deal. Rashan Gary getting minimal impact during his first two years. You get a little rookie impact out of these guys at positions of value and move on from some of those bad contracts I mentioned earlier and you arent in such a cap crunch.

[MY_TAKE]

So whats the excuse for 2017, 2018, and championship window 2020? Maybe if we werent paying bigger deals to bad players or unpremium positions like Dean Lowry, Kevin King, Billy Turder, Mercedes Lewis, Jimmy Graham, etc..

Never mention Kevin King.

[Madcity_matt]

easy man, Matt just made a simple statement

good points Lupe, as I said just a bunch of excuses to defend the ineptness that went on here for years.

2023 cap hit
Lamar 22mil
Burrow 19.5
Herbert (new example from what I already explained.) want to guess how they are paying Allen and Ekeler? 8.45 Million Yes you read that right
Wilson has $hit receivers and counts 22

Far cry from 40-50 mil. Come back and talk to me when Herbert hits the meat of the deal. 2025 38 mil,2026 46 mil, 2026 58 mil, 2027 71!!! Mil

KC is getting into the meat of it now. The last few years of Rodgers we had already pushed a bunch of money forward (hello dead cap!) and even with shwanky math we weren't going to be able to bring in a stud. It's not an apples to apples arguemnt. more like apples and basketballs. But why do I try to explain with logic. It won't matter.

Rodgers cap hit since taking Adams
2015: $18.2M
2016: $19.2M
2017: $20.3M
2018: $20.9M
2019: $29.3M
2020: $21.6M
2021: $27.5M
2022: $28.5M

So whats the excuse for 2017, 2018, and championship window 2020? Maybe if we werent paying bigger deals to bad players or unpremium positions like Dean Lowry, Kevin King, Billy Turder, Mercedes Lewis, Jimmy Graham, etc... On top of that we misused our draft resources by getting players who gave us absolutely no value riding the bench during years they should have been highly impactful. Everyone is so quick to jump all over Rodgers stealing money he earned and no one wants to mention the absurdity of some of those deals.

Paying Aaron Jones while drafting AJ Dillon in the 2nd round to play 3rd string year one and 2nd string his entire rookie deal. Jordan Love riding the bench almost his entire rookie deal. Rashan Gary getting minimal impact during his first two years. You get a little rookie impact out of these guys at positions of value and move on from some of those bad contracts I mentioned earlier and you arent in such a cap crunch.

I'm not making excuses. I'm just preaching truth in the numbers. I'm not trying to fit every argument to my narrative like some.

But just off the top of my head...
2017 We had Adams, Nelson and Cobb still playing good ball
2018 Still Adams, drafted ESB and MVS (not great picks mind you) but also spent our 1 on Jaire, signed Jimmy Graham.
2019 Spent a ridiculous amount on the Smith bros, Billy Turner and Amos to try to make up for the abyssmal 2015 draft having noone that needed to get a second contract.

Most of those teams were built enough to win. They didn't win it all. I'm bummed about that too, but it's not like we were dancing at the minimum cap number so the owner could save some money. they have essentially spent it all, every single year going back a long time. The results just haven't always worked out.

[Yoop]

Tampa and LA built their teams in reverse of the QBs. Tampa built up a strong supporting cast on O because they had no expensive QB on the roster and kept getting high draft picks because of how bad they were, then they got an elite QB to join them after the fact.

thats more a matter of circumstances, the QB's they had didn't pan out,I'll stick to the plan Thompson had in 06, If ya have a great QB, he had Favre, you bring in WR's, Ted had to dump his G's to get under the Cap, replaced one with Colledge, and also took a receiver, and rinse and repeat every other draft using a 2nd on a receiver.

Gutekunst just did the same for his QB these last 2 drafts, can't win if ya can't score points, OL doing musical chairs both seasons, he drafts ball catchers, so he isn't exactly following your plan

not saying Brady or Stafford weren't the topping off of two already talented teams, just that I don't think that was necessarily intentional, obviously thats a perfect case scenario , and in todays era of UFA by the time ya build up the supporting cast, the studs are walking out the door, jmo, I think it's better the way Ted and Gute have done it.

[Labrev]

Tampa and LA built their teams in reverse of the QBs. Tampa built up a strong supporting cast on O because they had no expensive QB on the roster and kept getting high draft picks because of how bad they were, then they got an elite QB to join them after the fact.

thats more a matter of circumstances, the QB's they had didn't pan out,I'll stick to the plan Thompson had in 06, If ya have a great QB, he had Favre, you bring in WR's, Ted had to dump his G's to get under the Cap, replaced one with Colledge, and also took a receiver, and rinse and repeat every other draft using a 2nd on a receiver.

Gutekunst just did the same for his QB these last 2 drafts, can't win if ya can't score points, OL doing musical chairs both seasons, he drafts ball catchers, so he isn't exactly following your plan

not saying Brady or Stafford weren't the topping off of two already talented teams, just that I don't think that was necessarily intentional, obviously thats a perfect case scenario , and in todays era of UFA by the time ya build up the supporting cast, the studs are walking out the door, jmo, I think it's better the way Ted and Gute have done it.

You have not answered the questions.

Why are you defending KC for wasting Mahomes's prime? Who cares what they tried to do at WR if they, as you agreed, have ended up putting Mahomes in the same position as we did Rodgers, especially if you don't accept the cap as an excuse?

Why do you defend trading Hill away without having a replacement on the roster?

[Yoop]

2023 cap hit
Lamar 22mil
Burrow 19.5
Herbert (new example from what I already explained.) want to guess how they are paying Allen and Ekeler? 8.45 Million Yes you read that right
Wilson has $hit receivers and counts 22

Far cry from 40-50 mil. Come back and talk to me when Herbert hits the meat of the deal. 2025 38 mil,2026 46 mil, 2026 58 mil, 2027 71!!! Mil

KC is getting into the meat of it now. The last few years of Rodgers we had already pushed a bunch of money forward (hello dead cap!) and even with shwanky math we weren't going to be able to bring in a stud. It's not an apples to apples arguemnt. more like apples and basketballs. But why do I try to explain with logic. It won't matter.

Rodgers cap hit since taking Adams
2015: $18.2M
2016: $19.2M
2017: $20.3M
2018: $20.9M
2019: $29.3M
2020: $21.6M
2021: $27.5M
2022: $28.5M

So whats the excuse for 2017, 2018, and championship window 2020? Maybe if we werent paying bigger deals to bad players or unpremium positions like Dean Lowry, Kevin King, Billy Turder, Mercedes Lewis, Jimmy Graham, etc... On top of that we misused our draft resources by getting players who gave us absolutely no value riding the bench during years they should have been highly impactful. Everyone is so quick to jump all over Rodgers stealing money he earned and no one wants to mention the absurdity of some of those deals.

Paying Aaron Jones while drafting AJ Dillon in the 2nd round to play 3rd string year one and 2nd string his entire rookie deal. Jordan Love riding the bench almost his entire rookie deal. Rashan Gary getting minimal impact during his first two years. You get a little rookie impact out of these guys at positions of value and move on from some of those bad contracts I mentioned earlier and you arent in such a cap crunch.

I'm not making excuses. I'm just preaching truth in the numbers. I'm not trying to fit every argument to my narrative like some.

But just off the top of my head...
2017 We had Adams, Nelson and Cobb still playing good ball
2018 Still Adams, drafted ESB and MVS (not great picks mind you) but also spent our 1 on Jaire, signed Jimmy Graham.
2019 Spent a ridiculous amount on the Smith bros, Billy Turner and Amos to try to make up for the abyssmal 2015 draft having noone that needed to get a second contract.

Most of those teams were built enough to win. They didn't win it all. I'm bummed about that too, but it's not like we were dancing at the minimum cap number so the owner could save some money. they have essentially spent it all, every single year going back a long time. The results just haven't always worked out.

no offense Matt, but the argument is what positions the resources where spent on

2017
Adams missed 2 games 885
Cobb had 653
Nelson had 482, that was his last season
now theres a bunch of receivers with less, those are the top 3

2018 was much better, still ended up costing McCarthy his job,

Adams break out season 1386
Grayham 636
MVS, nice rookie season, Rodgers loved that speed 581
Cobb with 383
again there are more with shorter yardage.

just look at these figures from another teams top 3 that also has a very expensive QB from several years back, I chose this team, admittedly because of brother Labrev idea that KC lacked receivers, again my opinion only but I always feel two receivers capable of beating single coverage consistently is better then just a great player like Adams, so I chose KC

2020
Kelce 1416
T, Hill 1276
Hardman 560
Kelce and Hill are a nightmare

2021
T. Hill 1239
Kelce 1125
Hardman 695

2022
Kelce 1338
ju ju Shuster 933
MVS 687

not saying ya need Kelce and a Hill, the point is having two K type receivers is better then just one, lots better.

Gute just brought in a bunch of pretty good candidates, I could see any number of 4 capable to do it.

[APB]

not saying ya need Kelce and a Hill, the point is having two K type receivers is better then just one, lots better.

Is this what you’ve been arguing all this time? Is this the point of all this back-and-forth??

Who on this planet wouldn’t want two 1k receivers? Like, no &%$@. It’s easier said than done, though. Historically, I bet it’s only been done a handful of times. Regardless, though, who in their right mind wouldn’t want this? Who are you arguing against on this point?

[musclestang]

I haven't been paying attention to who's saying what, but over the past 2 years i've seen plenty say how Mahomes gets it done and Rodgers can't anymore argued in a lot of places in person and on the net.

anyway, Rodgers is past prime, injured and not on our team anymore. I don't think he was nearly as bad as people perceived last year, but alas, we'll never know any more than we do now.

But put Rodgers on KC last year or year before, they'd likely be contenders for a super bowl. Would they win? anyone's guess, odds are against it, because, well they're against everyone. Put Mahomes on GB last year are they super bowl contenders? I'd still say no.

Both are some of the best QB's to ever play the game at very different stages of their careers.

[lupedafiasco]

In my opinion very few QBs in the history of the league can say they played with worse talent than what Rodgers had last year.

[Labrev]

In my opinion very few QBs in the history of the league can say they played with worse talent than what Rodgers had last year.

Tell me you don't watch other teams play without telling me you don't watch others teams play.

[lupedafiasco]

In my opinion very few QBs in the history of the league can say they played with worse talent than what Rodgers had last year.

Tell me you don't watch other teams play without telling me you don't watch others teams play.

Tell me who has had a worse supporting cast than last years group of receivers and TEs.