From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
So why did Favre and Rodgers only win the Super Bowl when they had a top Defense? Why did Starr only win when he had a top defense? Show me one time a 32-ranked team in defense won the Super Bowl. How may times did Brady win a Super Bowl without a top defense? Hint: Zero. Montana? Zero. You name any QB that has won multiple Super Bowls and they had a top defense with them. Except one. Eli Manning. Now, if what you say is true, that would make Eli the best QB ever. Because he didn't need a top Defense to win 2 Super Bowls.
I am trying to follow you here. So did you think Brady was good? Or were his abilities vastly overrated because of Belichick and his good defenses? It seems thats what your saying.
You were basically saying that about Purdy because the niners have a good defense. I used examples of Favre having a good defense and winning, thinking that it was commonly acceptable that he was good. It basically sounds like you think every QB is crap thats ever had a good defense behind them.
BTW. Good offense and Good defense affect the other both ways. Good offenses can make defenses better. Time of possession for instance, keeps defenses fresh and not worn down. If offenses get good leads it can make the opposition offense one dimensional, thereby making it easier for defenses to Tee off.
Last edited by MY_TAKE on 07 Dec 2023 22:12, edited 1 time in total.
Sad that no one is willing to answer my question. You just don't have the Balls I guess.
As for Love. He has things to prove. I wouldn't give up on him yet. But I wouldn't anoint him the next QBOTF in Green Bay.
It's because you need to build an overall great team to win a SB. QB is only a part of that overall great team (although a big part). Additionally you need get lucky in the one and done playoffs. Even a great team can have a bad day. Fans get sucked into the futile "O or D wins SBs" -debate, when it's pretty obvious neither does on their own.
If you have a great D, but the O can't score, there will likely be one playoff game your D falters and our out. Vice versa if your D is a sieve but you O is great. One off-day by the QB and that no SB for ya.
Why top QB contract are counterproductive is exactly because huge cap number combined with likely picking low due to said great QB leaves you with inferior resources in both draft and UFA to build an OVERALL great team. The GM needs to really hit with the meager resources he has on hand.
Sad that no one is willing to answer my question. You just don't have the Balls I guess.
As for Love. He has things to prove. I wouldn't give up on him yet. But I wouldn't anoint him the next QBOTF in Green Bay.
Just catching up on this thread and you're an idiot who is wasting our time and I'm irritated at myself for replying to you because MANYH people have answered your questions and you just keep trying to harp on the idea that the Packers haven't had great QBs? You're objectively way the heck off base here. Just give up. Favre was great. Rodgers was great. And Love looks really good. Teams win championships when they have some great and some good and limited downsides. Those are two different conversations and comparisons, but you insist they aren't.
Further, for the Packers fans here, it's ABSURD that some people (lupe) are reacting to Love's emergence by reiterating how bad he was when y'all were previously trashing him.
The conversation was very VERY clearly between people who had pulled the plug and decided he wasn't good enough and people who had uncertainty and doubts but said it wasn't enough time or sample size to write him off or make a determination yet. In that conversation, the debbie downers were objectively incorrect,. You were wrong. If you said Love isn't the guy and isn't good enough to become the guy, you were wrong and nothing about his previous performance can change that.
Eat the crow and REJOICE as your team is in luck. But no, it's so so so important to have been RIGHT that you can't. The worst kind of fan. If you were through with the Love experiment, take a month off. You were too wrong to be taken seriously right now.
When your team has a QB who starts emerging as potentially a franchise guy, the correct way to feel is happy. The incorrect way to feel is "justifying past takes." I just can't with this thread. It's the worst. You're all the worst.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I was in the camp who believed that Love had a small sample size and that it was too early to write him off given the struggles. Now that he's crushing it, I am still of the opinion that it is too early to ultimately know for sure. What we do know is that he has risen to the occasion so far. He's successfully made it past 2 key tripping points already, points at which things could have very well gone a lot worse:
1) First game, it could have very well been the case that he comes out and stinks and it is clear by week 4 or 5 that he is not the answer. That definitively did not happen
2) Midway through his first season, he experiences some adversity, and never recovers, and by the offseason, the front office is ready to start looking around for a Plan B if one falls in our lap. That also now definitively did not happen.
With the upcoming schedule, you would think that this offseason we will look back and think we have our next franchise QB. I think it looks pretty great at this point, but there is another big tripping point ahead, and that is in year 2 when the other defenses have had time to scout him and figure him out. If the last 3 games are his norm by this point next season, I will feel comfortable saying that he is the next franchise QB in line. Looking at other QBs, there are definitely possible tripping points beyond that (Rodgers arguably got figured out only in 2011, year 4 of being a starter, at least playoff Rodgers got figured out), but if he's still doing this a year from now then he should be able to hold it together for the long haul.
My friend made the point that the last thing he wants is for us to be stuck with Dak Prescott 2.0 for the next 10 years, when now would be the easiest time to move on from such a player, before he has had a chance to solidify his position. I think that point is valid, but at the same time, 1) I think Dak 2.0 in a MLF/Shanahan offense could be a lot better than Dak in a MM or Garrett offense; 2) There's no reason to think this will be Love's ceiling yet and we will only know his ceiling after he has had enough time to entrench himself as the franchise QB so this whole issue is moot; and 3) as of right now, zero chance I am moving on from Love, it's sort of out of the question at this point based on his play, so any fears of Dak 2.0 aren't relevant from a performance standpoint either.
Wow. Like I haven’t that line before. Typical Packer fan response when they don’t want answer a question.
Typical Viking fan response when they remember they have zero. Trying to remove the saltiness from a Vikings fan is harder than removing the stench from a hunk of &%$@.
No. It's a typical arrogant Packer fan response. This thread and my post have nothing to do with my team winning squat. But when questioning the ability of QBs, this is brought up. Why? Because as a Vikings fan, I can't possibly know what I'm talking about. Because only Packer fans or fans of teams who have won the Super Bowl know anything. Arrogance. As is your post. And it's one of the reasons why many fans of other teams hate Packer fans in general. You think your &%$@ doesn't stink. Me, I don't give a crap. I grew up with Packer fans. Half my family is Packer fans.
Yeah I don't get the SB brag. The Packers are the number one choking team of ruining championship teams in my lifetime.
So I don't really talk trash. MN is a good franchise. I consider them a top 10 franchise. But I do in the aggregate consider GB a top 3 franchise in the last 30 years. (alongside NE and PIT)
If the bears offered us their upcoming #1 overall pick for Jordan Love in the off-season, would you hope we take it?
Nope. There is no point in creating a need at a premium position (one which IMO is officially not a need anymore) to get a premium draft pick, so it'd be trading Love to get a new QB, namely Williams or Maye.
I don't have an opinion on them at the moment but I doubt they are expected to be a head-and-shoiulders upgrade over Love, which they would have to be for me to ditch any QB1 to replace them with a rookie straight-up.
For that reason, the offer would have to be at least two firsts before I start to even begin to consider any such move.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
Not only have I not negatively judged Love, I generally defended him and said it’s hard to evaluate him when everything around him is such a mess. His accuracy was an issue for sure, I expect it to be an issue in the future too. But he just has a smoothness about him that indicated to me he could make the plays a starting QB needs to make.
Not only have I not negatively judged Love, I generally defended him and said it’s hard to evaluate him when everything around him is such a mess. His accuracy was an issue for sure, I expect it to be an issue in the future too. But he just has a smoothness about him that indicated to me he could make the plays a starting QB needs to make.
Weren't you a founding member of the "we were right" club? Remember that from a few weeks back? I do.
The one boasting about how the team shouldn't have moved on from Rodgers? How Love wasn't cutting it? The one rubbing other's noses in while welcoming members to the "we were right" team when they acknowledged Love was lacking? You and "it was fun standing in the trenches with you and taking bullets from the haters. we were right!" buddy [mention]bud fox[/mention]...?
Not only have I not negatively judged Love, I generally defended him and said it’s hard to evaluate him when everything around him is such a mess. His accuracy was an issue for sure, I expect it to be an issue in the future too. But he just has a smoothness about him that indicated to me he could make the plays a starting QB needs to make.
Weren't you a founding member of the "we were right" club? Remember that from a few weeks back? I do.
The one boasting about how the team shouldn't have moved on from Rodgers? How Love wasn't cutting it? The one rubbing other's noses in while welcoming members to the "we were right" team when they acknowledged Love was lacking? You and "it was fun standing in the trenches with you and taking bullets from the haters. we were right!" buddy @bud fox...?
Wasn't that you? Pretty sure it was...
I know you, like a couple others, have no understanding of nuance. But the trenches talk was a defense of Rodgers over the last few seasons, it had nothing to do with Love or how Love would turn out, or who should be the qb in 2023.
Last time you accused me of being against Love I defended myself and others “Lombardi’d” my post because they knew I never wrote off Love. You always lump me in with what others are saying is negative, but I’m actually pretty nuanced. I attack some things with gusto, and I praise other things. I definitely knew it was time to move off Rodgers in 2023. I said it all 2022 and all through the summer that it will be nice to see other’s personalities shine now that the one who sucked up all the oxygen is gone.
So you are just wrong, and it’s time you stop accusing me of stuff I never said. This is about the third time you’ve done that related to Love.
Not only have I not negatively judged Love, I generally defended him and said it’s hard to evaluate him when everything around him is such a mess. His accuracy was an issue for sure, I expect it to be an issue in the future too. But he just has a smoothness about him that indicated to me he could make the plays a starting QB needs to make.
Weren't you a founding member of the "we were right" club? Remember that from a few weeks back? I do.
The one boasting about how the team shouldn't have moved on from Rodgers? How Love wasn't cutting it? The one rubbing other's noses in while welcoming members to the "we were right" team when they acknowledged Love was lacking? You and "it was fun standing in the trenches with you and taking bullets from the haters. we were right!" buddy @bud fox...?
Wasn't that you? Pretty sure it was...
you and half this forum did the same thing, hell most of you still fence sit and wont commit to saying Love is our next franchise QB, gotta wait to see him go HOF caliber longer, if that aint luke warm what is.
taking a passive stance means your never wrong, if Love fails it's "I figured this might happen" same if he succeeds, it's so PC
Not only have I not negatively judged Love, I generally defended him and said it’s hard to evaluate him when everything around him is such a mess. His accuracy was an issue for sure, I expect it to be an issue in the future too. But he just has a smoothness about him that indicated to me he could make the plays a starting QB needs to make.
Weren't you a founding member of the "we were right" club? Remember that from a few weeks back? I do.
The one boasting about how the team shouldn't have moved on from Rodgers? How Love wasn't cutting it? The one rubbing other's noses in while welcoming members to the "we were right" team when they acknowledged Love was lacking? You and "it was fun standing in the trenches with you and taking bullets from the haters. we were right!" buddy @bud fox...?
Wasn't that you? Pretty sure it was...
I certainly remember being unnecessarily cornered with word play when I kept saying that up to Week 7 there wasn't a significant difference between the 2022 Packers offense compared to the 2023 Packers offense and how that obviously meant it was a fight that I was being ridiculous of saying Love was better than Rodgers or some weird bullsh*t
Oh an BROKEN THUMB was a thing.
I don't know. There were a lot of weird conversations during that time.
I have found a fun correlation on this forum. The less the anti-fun club posts....the more the Packers seem to win.
Not only have I not negatively judged Love, I generally defended him and said it’s hard to evaluate him when everything around him is such a mess. His accuracy was an issue for sure, I expect it to be an issue in the future too. But he just has a smoothness about him that indicated to me he could make the plays a starting QB needs to make.
Weren't you a founding member of the "we were right" club? Remember that from a few weeks back? I do.
The one boasting about how the team shouldn't have moved on from Rodgers? How Love wasn't cutting it? The one rubbing other's noses in while welcoming members to the "we were right" team when they acknowledged Love was lacking? You and "it was fun standing in the trenches with you and taking bullets from the haters. we were right!" buddy @bud fox...?
Wasn't that you? Pretty sure it was...
you and half this forum did the same thing, hell most of you still fence sit and wont commit to saying Love is our next franchise QB, gotta wait to see him go HOF caliber longer, if that aint luke warm what is.
taking a passive stance means your never wrong, if Love fails it's "I figured this might happen" same if he succeeds, it's so PC
No no no no no.
Love is our guy. Like there is no question he is now our guy. But I won't go any further than that right now.
Why can't we just enjoy the moment and root for our guy? We don't need to crown him anything beyond he is our guy.
Not only have I not negatively judged Love, I generally defended him and said it’s hard to evaluate him when everything around him is such a mess. His accuracy was an issue for sure, I expect it to be an issue in the future too. But he just has a smoothness about him that indicated to me he could make the plays a starting QB needs to make.
Weren't you a founding member of the "we were right" club? Remember that from a few weeks back? I do.
The one boasting about how the team shouldn't have moved on from Rodgers? How Love wasn't cutting it? The one rubbing other's noses in while welcoming members to the "we were right" team when they acknowledged Love was lacking? You and "it was fun standing in the trenches with you and taking bullets from the haters. we were right!" buddy @bud fox...?
Wasn't that you? Pretty sure it was...
I certainly remember being unnecessarily cornered with word play when I kept saying that up to Week 7 there wasn't a significant difference between the 2022 Packers offense compared to the 2023 Packers offense and how that obviously meant it was a fight that I was being ridiculous of saying Love was better than Rodgers or some weird bullsh*t
Oh an BROKEN THUMB was a thing.
I don't know. There were a lot of weird conversations during that time.
I have found a fun correlation on this forum. The less the anti-fun club posts....the more the Packers seem to win.
Yes I was engaged in a convo where I said rodgers was a better qb than Jordan love. I still believe that. That does not mean I wrote off Love or said he was a bust or bad.
Not sure if I’m in anti fun club but I post about the same
