Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison

[Pckfn23]

Let us know when Purdy has more than 10 games where he has to score more than 25 points to win. See, it's easy to play QB when your team is always up, but not so easy when you are playing from behind. FWIW, Love has at least 6 games like that so far this year. Purdy has 2 in the last 2.

Let's get back to this then. You are dragging Purdy before not winning enough 25+ points games, but also dragged Brady for winning too many games where the defense held under 16, but at the same time Brady had far and away the best record when his defense gave up 26+?? I am not saying you are wrong that QBs need to be able to out duel the other offense at times, but at least be consistent.

Oh I think you are not understanding what I'm saying about Brady. Brady was good, I never said he wasn't. But when your defense gives up less than 18 ppg on average for almost 20 years you are going to have a better record and more wins than anyone. Can you imagine if the Packers defense did the same under Favre and Rodgers? Green Bay would have had probably the same amount of Super Bowls in that period.

And Purdy has yet to show he can outduel anyone. And the three times (I thought it was 2) he had to score more than 25 points to win? He had to outduel Jason Stidman, Kyler Murray, and Joe Burrow. Want to guess which one he lost to?

People think Tarkenton was a good QB in Minnesota under Grant. He just happened to be their starter. He was barely .500 in games between 19-24. And over 25? 9-64.

But, he's in the HOF.

Oh no, you have specifically argued that Brady isn't as good as we think/believe. That his defense was also good is not an indictment of his skills as a QB.

[Pugger]

[MY_TAKE]

Oh I think you are not understanding what I'm saying about Brady. Brady was good, I never said he wasn't. But when your defense gives up less than 18 ppg on average for almost 20 years you are going to have a better record and more wins than anyone. Can you imagine if the Packers defense did the same under Favre and Rodgers? Green Bay would have had probably the same amount of Super Bowls in that period.

Geeez. Your talking about wins not abilities. I never said anything about winning. Just that Purdy needs to throw it and someone needs to catch it. He is doing that at a hight level and not throwing picks and his QBR is awesome. Your missing my point.

Every QB on your ridiculous chart lost more games when the other team scored more. Once again, not rocket science. As 23 said, Brady probably graded out a bit higher than some. He is considered by many the GOAT. He should. Its not surprising.

Simple Question. Is Purdy a good QB or not? Or, is he just a guy? It sounds like you believe it to be the latter. I find that a bit laughable considering the numbers he is putting up. NOT WINS! QB numbers. Also, based on your arguments you have made, I am not sure you think any QB is good. If there is let me know. Is Purdy in your top 11 starting QBs right now? Name 10 you like better that would really show us something. I want to see your list.

Also, you already trashed Favre and Rodgers earlier in this discussion and now your flipping it around to argue this ridiculous point of basically defense helps you win, which noone disagrees with. You also cherry picked Purdys bad games, which are not many to make some sort of "see I told you he cant do it in the clutch or when he has to score 30 points." OMG
.
Finally I don't think Purdy is the greatest QB right now. But, he certainly appears to be top 10 and not a JAG. That was my main argument with your original statement.

[Raptorman]

Oh I think you are not understanding what I'm saying about Brady. Brady was good, I never said he wasn't. But when your defense gives up less than 18 ppg on average for almost 20 years you are going to have a better record and more wins than anyone. Can you imagine if the Packers defense did the same under Favre and Rodgers? Green Bay would have had probably the same amount of Super Bowls in that period.

Geeez. Your talking about wins not abilities. I never said anything about winning. Just that Purdy needs to throw it and someone needs to catch it. He is doing that at a hight level and not throwing picks and his QBR is awesome. Your missing my point.

Every QB on your ridiculous chart lost more games when the other team scored more. Once again, not rocket science. As 23 said, Brady probably graded out a bit higher than some. He is considered by many the GOAT. He should. Its not surprising.

Simple Question. Is Purdy a good QB or not? Or, is he just a guy? It sounds like you believe it to be the latter. I find that a bit laughable considering the numbers he is putting up. NOT WINS! QB numbers. Also, based on your arguments you have made, I am not sure you think any QB is good. If there is let me know. Is Purdy in your top 11 starting QBs right now? Name 10 you like better that would really show us something. I want to see your list.

Also, you already trashed Favre and Rodgers earlier in this discussion and now your flipping it around to argue this ridiculous point of basically defense helps you win, which noone disagrees with. You also cherry picked Purdys bad games, which are not many to make some sort of "see I told you he cant do it in the clutch or when he has to score 30 points." OMG
.
Finally I don't think Purdy is the greatest QB right now. But, he certainly appears to be top 10 and not a JAG. That was my main argument with your original statement.

I would put Purdy as a good game manager at the moment. Like I said, let’s see how he does when he doesn’t have the defense around him Maybe he is good, but we have not seen that.

[Raptorman]

Let's get back to this then. You are dragging Purdy before not winning enough 25+ points games, but also dragged Brady for winning too many games where the defense held under 16, but at the same time Brady had far and away the best record when his defense gave up 26+?? I am not saying you are wrong that QBs need to be able to out duel the other offense at times, but at least be consistent.

Oh I think you are not understanding what I'm saying about Brady. Brady was good, I never said he wasn't. But when your defense gives up less than 18 ppg on average for almost 20 years you are going to have a better record and more wins than anyone. Can you imagine if the Packers defense did the same under Favre and Rodgers? Green Bay would have had probably the same amount of Super Bowls in that period.

And Purdy has yet to show he can outduel anyone. And the three times (I thought it was 2) he had to score more than 25 points to win? He had to outduel Jason Stidman, Kyler Murray, and Joe Burrow. Want to guess which one he lost to?

People think Tarkenton was a good QB in Minnesota under Grant. He just happened to be their starter. He was barely .500 in games between 19-24. And over 25? 9-64.

But, he's in the HOF.

Oh no, you have specifically argued that Brady isn't as good as we think/believe. That his defense was also good is not an indictment of his skills as a QB.

Why is Brady considered the GOAT? Because he has won so many Super Bowls and games. Name one time anyone in the press has talked of the defense’s Brady has had over the years.

[Pckfn23]

Oh I think you are not understanding what I'm saying about Brady. Brady was good, I never said he wasn't. But when your defense gives up less than 18 ppg on average for almost 20 years you are going to have a better record and more wins than anyone. Can you imagine if the Packers defense did the same under Favre and Rodgers? Green Bay would have had probably the same amount of Super Bowls in that period.

And Purdy has yet to show he can outduel anyone. And the three times (I thought it was 2) he had to score more than 25 points to win? He had to outduel Jason Stidman, Kyler Murray, and Joe Burrow. Want to guess which one he lost to?

People think Tarkenton was a good QB in Minnesota under Grant. He just happened to be their starter. He was barely .500 in games between 19-24. And over 25? 9-64.

But, he's in the HOF.

Oh no, you have specifically argued that Brady isn't as good as we think/believe. That his defense was also good is not an indictment of his skills as a QB.

Why is Brady considered the GOAT? Because he has won so many Super Bowls and games. Name one time anyone in the press has talked of the defense’s Brady has had over the years.

You're missing a heck of a lot of other things as well.

1 time:
https://www.gosanangelo.com/story/sport ... 256554001/

Quick Google search was all it took. There are without a doubt many other examples.

[Raptorman]

Oh no, you have specifically argued that Brady isn't as good as we think/believe. That his defense was also good is not an indictment of his skills as a QB.

Why is Brady considered the GOAT? Because he has won so many Super Bowls and games. Name one time anyone in the press has talked of the defense’s Brady has had over the years.

You're missing a heck of a lot of other things as well.

1 time:
https://www.gosanangelo.com/story/sport ... 256554001/

Quick Google search was all it took. There are without a doubt many other examples.

And it only took 20 years and a change of teams to see it in the press. I do notice that he agreed with my take on Brady. Given the same defense, I’d take Rodgers over Brady any day of the week. I think he is the better QB.

[Pckfn23]

Why is Brady considered the GOAT? Because he has won so many Super Bowls and games. Name one time anyone in the press has talked of the defense’s Brady has had over the years.

You're missing a heck of a lot of other things as well.

1 time:
https://www.gosanangelo.com/story/sport ... 256554001/

Quick Google search was all it took. There are without a doubt many other examples.

And it only took 20 years and a change of teams to see it in the press. I do notice that he agreed with my take on Brady. Given the same defense, I’d take Rodgers over Brady any day of the week. I think he is the better QB.

There are always nuts in every crowd.

Another article from before he moved to Tampa:
https://dailytrojan.com/2020/01/24/brad ... -the-goat/
And another:
https://spec.hamilton.edu/tom-brady-the ... 727195b210
And another:
https://spectator.org/five-reasons-why- ... overrated/

I mean I am not even digging here. As I said, a heck of a lot more than just 1 even with the added stipulations.

Your position is neither new nor edgy, but still very questionable.

Rodgers very well may be the best passer of all time.

Here is something Brady was pretty good at:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... career.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... career.htm

[Raptorman]

You're missing a heck of a lot of other things as well.

1 time:
https://www.gosanangelo.com/story/sport ... 256554001/

Quick Google search was all it took. There are without a doubt many other examples.

And it only took 20 years and a change of teams to see it in the press. I do notice that he agreed with my take on Brady. Given the same defense, I’d take Rodgers over Brady any day of the week. I think he is the better QB.

There are always nuts in every crowd.

Another article from before he moved to Tampa:
https://dailytrojan.com/2020/01/24/brad ... -the-goat/
And another:
https://spec.hamilton.edu/tom-brady-the ... 727195b210
And another:
https://spectator.org/five-reasons-why- ... overrated/

I mean I am not even digging here. As I said, a heck of a lot more than just 1 even with the added stipulations.

Your position is neither new nor edgy, but still very questionable.

Rodgers very well may be the best passer of all time.

Here is something Brady was pretty good at:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... career.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... career.htm

As I said, 20 years to see it in the press. Look at the dates of those articles. I've been saying for years. Well before 2019. Brady is an above-average QB who has really good defenses. That's it. Any other team, he's out of football in 6 -10 years.

I'd mention Joe Montana as being another one but then you would think I'm really nuts.

[go pak go]

And it only took 20 years and a change of teams to see it in the press. I do notice that he agreed with my take on Brady. Given the same defense, I’d take Rodgers over Brady any day of the week. I think he is the better QB.

There are always nuts in every crowd.

Another article from before he moved to Tampa:
https://dailytrojan.com/2020/01/24/brad ... -the-goat/
And another:
https://spec.hamilton.edu/tom-brady-the ... 727195b210
And another:
https://spectator.org/five-reasons-why- ... overrated/

I mean I am not even digging here. As I said, a heck of a lot more than just 1 even with the added stipulations.

Your position is neither new nor edgy, but still very questionable.

Rodgers very well may be the best passer of all time.

Here is something Brady was pretty good at:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... career.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... career.htm

As I said, 20 years to see it in the press. Look at the dates of those articles. I've been saying for years. Well before 2019. Brady is an above-average QB who has really good defenses. That's it. Any other team, he's out of football in 6 -10 years.

I'd mention Joe Montana as being another one but then you would think I'm really nuts.

I would put it at:

"Brady is an elite QB who has had really good defenses, luck, and unquestionably incredible play when it matters most and as a result has 7 SB rings which will never come close to being touched ever again"

[Pckfn23]

And it only took 20 years and a change of teams to see it in the press. I do notice that he agreed with my take on Brady. Given the same defense, I’d take Rodgers over Brady any day of the week. I think he is the better QB.

There are always nuts in every crowd.

Another article from before he moved to Tampa:
https://dailytrojan.com/2020/01/24/brad ... -the-goat/
And another:
https://spec.hamilton.edu/tom-brady-the ... 727195b210
And another:
https://spectator.org/five-reasons-why- ... overrated/

I mean I am not even digging here. As I said, a heck of a lot more than just 1 even with the added stipulations.

Your position is neither new nor edgy, but still very questionable.

Rodgers very well may be the best passer of all time.

Here is something Brady was pretty good at:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... career.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... career.htm

As I said, 20 years to see it in the press. Look at the dates of those articles. I've been saying for years. Well before 2019. Brady is an above-average QB who has really good defenses. That's it. Any other team, he's out of football in 6 -10 years.

I'd mention Joe Montana as being another one but then you would think I'm really nuts.

Nope...
https://ramblingeveron.com/2016/10/04/t ... l-history/
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/20 ... ve%20times.

Ya, you are really nuts man... Tom Brady and Joe Montana should both be strongly considered for the Mount Rushmore of QBs, if not both on it.

[Labrev]

First of all, his good defenses were not an accident; Brady took less money. He did take a megadeal; it was during the Pats' championship drought. Then he decided to take less to help give his team more talent.

Yeah yeah, his wife was super wealthy so the money didn't matter as much. Yet elite QBs themselves are super wealthy regardless. He could have made the reverse calculation and taken as much as possible, or the elite QBs could have taken less. It's a choice at the end of the day.

Second, the 2017 SuperBowl win (2016 season) tells you all you need to know. His defense faced the best offense in the league at the time, and said defense was not playing up to their usual standard, got behind early by a lot, and his weapons on offense were nothing special. His top receiving target was a slot WR, a very good one, but it's really not hard for a defense to take away a slot receiver when there are not many others that demand attention. His next best was a conventional tight-end.

Yet he engineered an incredible comeback in the face of all those things working against him. Guys stepped up of course, but they did so because they took their cue from the leader. You can go back and see that Brady never quit, showed bad body language, any of it. He was rallying his troops, telling all of them to persevere (he kept using the words "laser focus" on the sideline).

Moments like that proved even when you took away whatever you want to say is the "real reason" for his success, he is still legendarily great.

He may not have been the most talented passer in the game but he was definitely the greatest at the most important part: winning games.

[Yoop]

And it only took 20 years and a change of teams to see it in the press. I do notice that he agreed with my take on Brady. Given the same defense, I’d take Rodgers over Brady any day of the week. I think he is the better QB.

There are always nuts in every crowd.

Another article from before he moved to Tampa:
https://dailytrojan.com/2020/01/24/brad ... -the-goat/
And another:
https://spec.hamilton.edu/tom-brady-the ... 727195b210
And another:
https://spectator.org/five-reasons-why- ... overrated/

I mean I am not even digging here. As I said, a heck of a lot more than just 1 even with the added stipulations.

Your position is neither new nor edgy, but still very questionable.

Rodgers very well may be the best passer of all time.

Here is something Brady was pretty good at:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... career.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... career.htm

As I said, 20 years to see it in the press. Look at the dates of those articles. I've been saying for years. Well before 2019. Brady is an above-average QB who has really good defenses. That's it. Any other team, he's out of football in 6 -10 years.

I'd mention Joe Montana as being another one but then you would think I'm really nuts.

you lost me when you said Tarkington was a average QB, Montana, like Brady, like Favre and dozens of others excelled in the WCO, and would flourish just like your Tarkington in the offensive schemes used today, dinky dunky was there wheel house.

doesn't matter how good a defense is, a well run offense will eat it up every time, again just look at how PO games end, usually it's decided by who scored LAST, and often that happens on the last series of the game

[Raptorman]

I would put it at:

"Brady is an elite QB who has had really good defenses, luck, and unquestionably incredible play when it matters most and as a result has 7 SB rings which will never come close to being touched ever again"

If Mahomes plays 22 years, he will have more. Much better QB, and has done more with less of a defense.

[Raptorman]

you lost me when you said Tarkington was a average QB,

He's the reason MN never won a Super Bowl. He rode his defense to and through the playoffs.

His record for his second stint in MN
Games where the defense gave up 18 points or less. 52-8-2
Games where his defense gave up 19 points or more. 12-19-0

Please spare the BS he as a good QB. He was fun to watch, but that's about it.

[Pckfn23]

Chiefs defense in 2019 was 7th in scoring. 2022 on the other hand was 16th.

[Pckfn23]

61 to 78, minimum 500 attempts:

image.png (73.15 KiB) Viewed 686 times

[Yoop]

you lost me when you said Tarkington was a average QB,

He's the reason MN never won a Super Bowl. He rode his defense to and through the playoffs.

His record for his second stint in MN
Games where the defense gave up 18 points or less. 52-8-2
Games where his defense gave up 19 points or more. 12-19-0

Please spare the BS he as a good QB. He was fun to watch, but that's about it.

your the one being less then truthful, the reason the Vikes record declined was do to other factors such as over all team decline.

you could hang that on any QB, point is you can't rate a QB based on the performance of the defense, I never heard of such lunacy in my life, no one would ever take that seriously.

Brady, just like Tarkington, Montana, Mahomes, are excellent whether there defense is good or not, you been pushing this line for years Raptor, have you ever found anyone that supports it?

[Raptorman]

you lost me when you said Tarkington was a average QB,

He's the reason MN never won a Super Bowl. He rode his defense to and through the playoffs.

His record for his second stint in MN
Games where the defense gave up 18 points or less. 52-8-2
Games where his defense gave up 19 points or more. 12-19-0

Please spare the BS he as a good QB. He was fun to watch, but that's about it.

your the one being less then truthful, the reason the Vikes record declined was do to other factors such as over all team decline.

you could hang that on any QB, point is you can't rate a QB based on the performance of the defense, I never heard of such lunacy in my life, no one would ever take that seriously.

Brady, just like Tarkington, Montana, Mahomes, are excellent whether there defense is good or not, you been pushing this line for years Raptor, have you ever found anyone that supports it?

So explain to us why the great Favre and Rodgers only have one Super Bowl. After all, if they are the great QBs that Packer fans have been bragging about the last 20 years they should have at least more than one each. Why did they only win with a top defense?

[go pak go]

I would put it at:

"Brady is an elite QB who has had really good defenses, luck, and unquestionably incredible play when it matters most and as a result has 7 SB rings which will never come close to being touched ever again"

If Mahomes plays 22 years, he will have more. Much better QB, and has done more with less of a defense.

Agreed. Mahommes did a lot with a little in 2022. This year KC has a great defense but I would be absolutely shocked if they can do it again.

But yes. Mahommes winning last year with an average defense and few weapons outside of a premier TE was absolutely incredible.