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It is a miracle how many of these young receivers are looking like they can contribute in this league.
The question is: Did Gutey just hit homeruns and go on an iconic run in the draft?
Or did Rodgers actively hurt the development of young receivers forcing them to think about crap that doesnt have to do with catching the ball: like hand signals, perfect routes, poor body language, and having to "earn trust" before you will get the ball?
I think the evironment Love is providing for these guys to grow is a big part of it.
Gute also looks like he found some dogs.
Heck ya.
who knows, thing is with new players ya keep stuff as simple as possible, however we see plenty of 2nd season decline as coaches add more detail to there game plan, bigger play book, the quick study, higher IQ guys have 2nd year leaps, others often struggle.
I've always thought if a coach can get a young receiver to run a few routes very well, not give him to much, they can do well, I think we saw a lot of that this season.
just guess, obviously Dubois and Touri top that list, we had room for several established vets, nuff said.
Only so many WRs can play at a time. So what veteran WRs would you have signed that would have played instead of Wicks, Reed or Melton? Wicks and Reed improved a great deal as the season went on because they were able to play and learn. This would not have happened with veterans taking away their snaps. This is a young team that NEEDED to play together and learn together.
why do I have to come up with names? these young receivers would have still been able to accomplish what they did if we had had a couple vets that didn't drop passes or run the wrong routes, couple that with a makeshift OL which didn't provide a lot of protection to start the season, and we could have won a couple more games, but obviously thats not for sure, as it took most of the season for Barry to support our offense.
again have vets didn't hurt the younger receivers in 08
We had one rookie and one 2nd year WR in 2008.
We have that doubled to tripled for 2nd year in 2023. This squad is younger. This squad is growing incredibly at the right time. This squad loves each other.
There is absolutely nothing I would change about this group. Not even the failures. You need the failures to get to where they are now.
If your list of complaints about how Gute handled the WR position is Toure being our opening day #6 player instead of a vet....I think he did a pretty darned good job.
In fact. Down right amazing job
NO, my complaint is starting the season minus any real experience at the position, again, our WR's ran wrong routes and dropped a ton of passes, it was derailing Loves initial season, add in the porus OL and it could have ruined him, just as it does for soooooo many rookie or first year QB's, that you want to discount those real possibilities is disingenuous simply based on that it didn't happen
and nothing I just said takes away from the growth we saw with the group or with the way they where coached up, it concerns how we started not how we finished.
I wont let you or any of your posse strip me of the joy I feel for this team, simply because you accept the way our GM set up this roster.
In my eyes, its a miracle the receiver room seemed to improve all year and not totally implode.
Its a miracle they got better without any vets to guide them,
but hey..the miracle happened. It worked. And so its absolutely best those guys got the most reps. No need to complain now.
Time to just be shocked it worked, admit we were wrong, and tip the cap to "the plan"
If your list of complaints about how Gute handled the WR position is Toure being our opening day #6 player instead of a vet....I think he did a pretty darned good job.
In fact. Down right amazing job
NO, my complaint is starting the season minus any real experience at the position, again, our WR's ran wrong routes and dropped a ton of passes, it was derailing Loves initial season, add in the porus OL and it could have ruined him, just as it does for soooooo many rookie or first year QB's, that you want to discount those real possibilities is disingenuous simply based on that it didn't happen
and nothing I just said takes away from the growth we saw with the group or with the way they where coached up, it concerns how we started not how we finished.
I wont let you or any of your posse strip me of the joy I feel for this team, simply because you accept the way our GM set up this roster.
In my eyes, its a miracle the receiver room seemed to improve all year and not totally implode.
Its a miracle they got better without any vets to guide them,
but hey..the miracle happened. It worked. And so its absolutely best those guys got the most reps. No need to complain now.
Time to just be shocked it worked, admit we were wrong, and tip the cap to "the plan"
We made the freakin playoffs
I'am not admitting I was wrong about any of this DR. J, actually I feel my comments have been spot on, again that doesn't mean I'am not tickled that we made the PO's, I'am.
I find it weird actually that if a person critics a thing, that automatically means they dislike it, rather I actually think it's important to note short comings as well as success in everything we do
blah blah blah, this team would have a better record, all the rookie receivers would have done just as well, Love would be just as good, our defense layed a egg for most of the season, the OL took time to gel up, and these rookie receivers did too.
true where happy to be where we are, but we would /should have had a 12 win season.
No guarantees that if we had signed a veteran (and let's face it, he wouldn't have been a great veteran with what we could have paid) we would have a better record. The team learned together and grew together, and now they are better for it. I'll take this team in the playoffs. Win or lose on Sunday the arrow is pointing STRAIGHT UP.
This team was at a tipping point and it's just guesses which way things go. I was hoping what I saw was just confusion, because I never really saw lack of effort, but man was there a lot of lacking productivity. Everywhere. Every 3rd play would have a completely free rusher it seemed from 1 out of 5 Olinemen doing his own thing. Love would make a bad read on great routes. Love would make correct reads on poor routes. then when that wasn't killing things the ball would get dropped.
It was always something and it was bad. But they kept battling. and just like kids, dogs, whatever. You train, things look like they're coming together, then it all goes to &%$@ and you wonder WTF happened, and then it all clicks like they never missed a beat. They kept battling. Everyone started going their jobs just a bit better. Nobody is perfect and nobody needs to be either, just a bit better.
Oline isn't letting free rushers blow up a drive. Jordan looks like he has control of pre and post snap reads. You can see the confidence in his throws and he's better for it. WR's are in the right places, they are more confident, you can see it in how they catch the ball and how Jordan Delivers the ball.
It sucked, but it was great watching them grow at the same time. and they have. Still young, still making mistakes but they're proving they learn from them and they have the desire and physical skills to overcome some too. At least enough to make things interesting.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I had confidence Love could be the guy for the exception of a 5 day period in late October/early November.
However, I never dreamed he would be this good this early. Quite frankly, there are very few stretches that Aaron Rodgers can even put up against Love's last 8 games. Love is honest to goodness in the 2016 "we can run the table" level right now.
I think in this thread we should give props to our QB Whisperer Tom Clements. He developed Aaron Rodgers and it appears he is doing it again with Jordon Love.
To Love's credit he improved his game immensely during the season, which doesn't usually happen all that often.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
To Love's credit he improved his game immensely during the season, which doesn't usually happen all that often.
Yes, he deserves a ton of credit. That late interception against the Broncos had me concerned that he would slip into mediocrity and that the team would lose confidence in him. Then he followed that up with a not so good game against the Vikings. The Rams game finally made me feel like he could actually get it together, and he did against the Chargers in Week 11.
“We didn’t lose the game; we just ran out of time.”
- Vince Lombardi
[mention]Yoop[/mention] you're doing it again: You are diminishing and discrediting Jordan Love's progression by claiming any improvement is due to weapons and support around him, not him also improving his game.
Come on, give Love some credit for working hard and improving his quarterbacking. He was not a constant coming into this season, he was a variable.
Otherwise, I can just imagine you going to Love and saying "you didn't improve at all 2023-2024, better thank your Oline and weapons for all of your success". I'm pretty sure you don't mean it, but that's what your argument amounts to.
@Yoop you're doing it again: You are diminishing and discrediting Jordan Love's progression by claiming any improvement is due to weapons and support around him, not him also improving his game.
Come on, give Love some credit for working hard and improving his quarterbacking. He was not a constant coming into this season, he was a variable.
Otherwise, I can just imagine you going to Love and saying "you didn't improve at all 2023-2024, better thank your Oline and weapons for all of your success". I'm pretty sure you don't mean it, but that's what your argument amounts to.
this is your interpretation of my comments, of course Love improved, my point is the improvement would have been quicker coming then just this last 9 games, I'am convinced this team held love Back more then he did to himself, and I said this back in week 4, the OL and WR didn't make him better, your working over time to come to any conclusion like that, there the ones who held Love back, nice try twisting this 180
@Yoop you're doing it again: You are diminishing and discrediting Jordan Love's progression by claiming any improvement is due to weapons and support around him, not him also improving his game.
Come on, give Love some credit for working hard and improving his quarterbacking. He was not a constant coming into this season, he was a variable.
Otherwise, I can just imagine you going to Love and saying "you didn't improve at all 2023-2024, better thank your Oline and weapons for all of your success". I'm pretty sure you don't mean it, but that's what your argument amounts to.
this is your interpretation of my comments, of course Love improved, my point is the improvement would have been quicker coming then just this last 9 games, I'am convinced this team held love Back more then he did to himself, and I said this back in week 4, the OL and WR didn't make him better, your working over time to come to any conclusion like that, there the ones who held Love back, nice try twisting this 180
Well, it's quite obvious that the better the band, the easier it is for the lead singer to lift it up on the charts. But there's no autotune in the NFL, you better develop into a world class singer yourself...
I'm personally glad Gutey went real young, and absolutely NAILED the past couple of drafts, because even if short term Love woulda been better off with some vets, the growth rewarded us amazingly down the stretch. Bo Melton would never have happened if we had 2 extra vet WRs on the roster.
I have no great issue here, just if Love keeps developing, please credit Love himself sometimes, not just everyone around him.
@Yoop you're doing it again: You are diminishing and discrediting Jordan Love's progression by claiming any improvement is due to weapons and support around him, not him also improving his game.
Come on, give Love some credit for working hard and improving his quarterbacking. He was not a constant coming into this season, he was a variable.
Otherwise, I can just imagine you going to Love and saying "you didn't improve at all 2023-2024, better thank your Oline and weapons for all of your success". I'm pretty sure you don't mean it, but that's what your argument amounts to.
They've all improved something, and as a result WE look a lot better. Specific changes in Love for me? definitely seeing field well, pre and post snap. Confident in himself and those around him. Has more command on the field of the offense. He did have those 4, 5, 6 passes a game where you were wonder WTF was that? just missed badly. Those are gone. I'd still like to see him drive the ball more at times rather than float them. I think he's better when he does.
He's getting better too. I don't think he's done growing.
musclestang wrote:He did have those 4, 5, 6 passes a game where you were wonder WTF was that? just missed badly. Those are gone.
That's something that has quietly gone away and I'm sure we're all thankful for it. Those throws provided ammo for the "Love Stinks" narrative that, in reality, was just a small part of his game. And we never knew if it was Love or the receiver missing on the play, just that it looked completely disjointed. They were blatant enough to provide an umbrella for all the other criticisms, legitimate or not.
@Yoop you're doing it again: You are diminishing and discrediting Jordan Love's progression by claiming any improvement is due to weapons and support around him, not him also improving his game.
Come on, give Love some credit for working hard and improving his quarterbacking. He was not a constant coming into this season, he was a variable.
Otherwise, I can just imagine you going to Love and saying "you didn't improve at all 2023-2024, better thank your Oline and weapons for all of your success". I'm pretty sure you don't mean it, but that's what your argument amounts to.
this is your interpretation of my comments, of course Love improved, my point is the improvement would have been quicker coming then just this last 9 games, I'am convinced this team held love Back more then he did to himself, and I said this back in week 4, the OL and WR didn't make him better, your working over time to come to any conclusion like that, there the ones who held Love back, nice try twisting this 180
Well, it's quite obvious that the better the band, the easier it is for the lead singer to lift it up on the charts. But there's no autotune in the NFL, you better develop into a world class singer yourself...
I'm personally glad Gutey went real young, and absolutely NAILED the past couple of drafts, because even if short term Love woulda been better off with some vets, the growth rewarded us amazingly down the stretch. Bo Melton would never have happened if we had 2 extra vet WRs on the roster.
I have no great issue here, just if Love keeps developing, please credit Love himself sometimes, not just everyone around him.
I've done that all year Salmar, plenty of posters here did give up, many wanted to start tanking games around week 6, what gets me is folks now want to over look what held Love back early, and act like it never happened, I think it's important to evaluate all the games.
as to Melton, all players are evaluated on there practice each week, why you think Melton would be a exception to that, even PS players are graded, Melton just took longer to impress the coaches.
I remember last season everyone was high on Touri, reality is that he played because the position needed him to play, we where still short on receiver talent, whats he done this season? almost nothing, the only person responsible for that is Touri, I want to win, sure I want to develop players, but using player that best help me win comes first, and a couple vet receivers could have helped us win several close games a couple months ago.
what gets me is folks now want to over look what held Love back early, and act like it never happened
No one overlooks the other issues the team faced this year. This is quite literally the same mindset as saying people blamed Rodgers for everything. None of it is true.
a couple vet receivers could have helped us win several close games a couple months ago.
A couple vet receivers pushes some of these current receivers off the roster, in addition to Toure, and may not have made us better in the short term.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
this is your interpretation of my comments, of course Love improved, my point is the improvement would have been quicker coming then just this last 9 games, I'am convinced this team held love Back more then he did to himself, and I said this back in week 4, the OL and WR didn't make him better, your working over time to come to any conclusion like that, there the ones who held Love back, nice try twisting this 180
Well, it's quite obvious that the better the band, the easier it is for the lead singer to lift it up on the charts. But there's no autotune in the NFL, you better develop into a world class singer yourself...
I'm personally glad Gutey went real young, and absolutely NAILED the past couple of drafts, because even if short term Love woulda been better off with some vets, the growth rewarded us amazingly down the stretch. Bo Melton would never have happened if we had 2 extra vet WRs on the roster.
I have no great issue here, just if Love keeps developing, please credit Love himself sometimes, not just everyone around him.
I've done that all year Salmar, plenty of posters here did give up, many wanted to start tanking games around week 6, what gets me is folks now want to over look what held Love back early, and act like it never happened, I think it's important to evaluate all the games.
as to Melton, all players are evaluated on there practice each week, why you think Melton would be a exception to that, even PS players are graded, Melton just took longer to impress the coaches.
I remember last season everyone was high on Touri, reality is that he played because the position needed him to play, we where still short on receiver talent, whats he done this season? almost nothing, the only person responsible for that is Touri, I want to win, sure I want to develop players, but using player that best help me win comes first, and a couple vet receivers could have helped us win several close games a couple months ago.
Bo Melton didn't play because he suddenly was kicking a$$ on the Psquad. Bo Melton played just like why Toure played last year. Because of necessity. Injuries led to opportunities and Melton took full advantage.
Had Watson never gotten hurt...we wouldn't know anything about Melton. Melton deserves all the credit in the world for taking advantage of his opportunity. In addition, we never know about Melton if we have a "veteran" on the roster because there would be no reason to get him on the field.
