Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2023

[Labrev]

I would probably have to consider quit being a fan of that team if I followed them. Still hurting from that trade this year without a second. Baffling

That trade was ridiculous. They got a good player out of it, Olave, but they had way too many roster holes to make that kind of move for any position other than a QB.

They didn't even do it during the draft, they did it way before, so they had no way of knowing who was going to be there.

Yes, Saints' FO is a joke. Their management works if they have a QB but if not they are one of the worst FOs in the league.

of course they new Olave would be there, you seem to think GM's don't talk to each other or lack insider info concerning who is going to take certain players,

Yes, GMs all just tell each other who they want and trust that none of them will use the intel to take the guy they want.

"Smoke Screen," what's that??

blame Loomis all you want, the Saint where just as competitive as we've been.

I like how you say they were "as competitive" as us, which is only true because they hover around 500 every year while playing in the worst division in the league, not "as good" as us, which they have not been since Brees left (and is what actually matters).

[Pckfn23]

Saints haven't made the playoffs the last 3 seasons. Packers have been there twice and won a playoff game. Pretty false statement to say they have been as competitive as we have been.

[Yoop]

GM's do talk to each other, actually scheme amongst themselves, they also keep secrets, oh my Yoop, do you mean there human beings too and the Saint's with Brees where every bit as competitive as we've been.

and Loomis has been doing this as long as you both been wetting diapers, believe me you 2 are more worried about his teams bad cap dollars then Micky is

[Yoop]

Also remember the Saints gave up their first and a future first to get Marcus Davenport (bust no longer on their team) and did that weird thing where they gave a future first and future second and a bunch of stuff to Philly in like March to get an extra first.



I would probably have to consider quit being a fan of that team if I followed them. Still hurting from that trade this year without a second. Baffling

you would have loved Dandy Dan Devine, lots of Packer fans where ready to hang that guy

...along with his dog.

wacky Packer fans, the dog was a upgrade, we could have won with the dog

[Labrev]

Saints haven't made the playoffs the last 3 seasons. Packers have been there twice and won a playoff game. Pretty false statement to say they have been as competitive as we have been.

I mean you can kiiiiinda argue it over the last two years. In both seasons, both teams were in the playoff hunt. They were one game worse than us in 2022. This year, they had the same record, but we edged them out for a playoff spot.

But our team was talented enough to go the distance in 2021 and 2023. Heck maybe even 2022 if we played like the team we were rather than the team were used to being.

No serious person can say the past three Saints teams would have been anything but Pretenders in the playoffs (but a certain unserious person might).

[Yoop]

Saints haven't made the playoffs the last 3 seasons. Packers have been there twice and won a playoff game. Pretty false statement to say they have been as competitive as we have been.

I mean you can kiiiiinda argue it over the last two years. In both seasons, both teams were in the playoff hunt. They were one game worse than us in 2022. This year, they had the same record, but we edged them out for a playoff spot.

But our team was talented enough to go the distance in 2021 and 2023. Heck maybe even 2022 if we played like the team we were rather than the team were used to being.

No serious person can say the past three Saints teams would have been anything but Pretenders in the playoffs (but a certain unserious person might).

don't call me names, and I'am just as serious right now as I have been in this entire conversation, Loomis counted on Carr or Winston and neither was the answer, he kept redoing contracts with that hope in mind.

your gloating on those failures, thats all, because we came close to doing the same thing, and over the many years I've been a Packer fan we did far worse &%$@ then Loomis ever has in the over 25 years he's run that team.

Loomis has done what everyone has been doing, to much? sure, but his goals where the same as all the rest, same goals we had thats for sure.

[BF004]

I would probably have to consider quit being a fan of that team if I followed them. Still hurting from that trade this year without a second. Baffling

That trade was ridiculous. They got a good player out of it, Olave, but they had way too many roster holes to make that kind of move for any position other than a QB.

They didn't even do it during the draft, they did it way before, so they had no way of knowing who was going to be there.

Yes, Saints' FO is a joke. Their management works if they have a QB but if not they are one of the worst FOs in the league.

of course they new Olave would be there, you seem to think GM's don't talk to each other or lack insider info concerning who is going to take certain players, blame Loomis all you want, the Saint where just as competitive as we've been.

So baffling sometimes how you just say things, just words, out of context, provably wrong.

They traded 18 for 16 and 19. So it's not like it was some mastermind trade to get into position to take Olave because they knew were he would go a month before the draft. They moved from 18 to 16.

They then further moved up to 11 to take Olave on draft day, sure seems like a great decision right now. However they surely could have moved from 18 to 11 just fine, especially with all the ammo they had. That previously mentioned trade, 18 for 16 and 19, almost has no impact on their ability and decision to independently decide to trade up to get Olave a month later.

Then they also took Trevor Penning at 19 who is a bust and they are already looking to replace.

The Saints have not been just as competitive as we have been. Pick like any single metric over basically any time span between Brees leaving and now, and we are convincingly better.

Not sure what your agenda is, I thinking its because they made an aggressive move for a WR that paid off, clearly everything else must also be fine then? But that was just such an odd post from top to bottom, context, accuracy, conclusion, etc.

[Pckfn23]

over the many years I've been a Packer fan we did far worse &%$@ then Loomis ever has in the over 25 years he's run that team.

Loomis has done what everyone has been doing, to much? sure

No and no. You keep saying both things and both things are just not true.

No team in the NFL has been $55+ million over the cap 3 years in a row.

[Yoop]

That trade was ridiculous. They got a good player out of it, Olave, but they had way too many roster holes to make that kind of move for any position other than a QB.

They didn't even do it during the draft, they did it way before, so they had no way of knowing who was going to be there.

Yes, Saints' FO is a joke. Their management works if they have a QB but if not they are one of the worst FOs in the league.

of course they new Olave would be there, you seem to think GM's don't talk to each other or lack insider info concerning who is going to take certain players, blame Loomis all you want, the Saint where just as competitive as we've been.

So baffling sometimes how you just say things, just words, out of context, provably wrong.

They traded 18 for 16 and 19. So it's not like it was some mastermind trade to get into position to take Olave because they knew were he would go a month before the draft. They moved from 18 to 16.

They then further moved up to 11 to take Olave on draft day, sure seems like a great decision right now. However they surely could have moved from 18 to 11 just fine, especially with all the ammo they had. That previously mentioned trade, 18 for 16 and 19, almost has no impact on their ability and decision to independently decide to trade up to get Olave a month later.

Then they also took Trevor Penning at 19 who is a bust and they are already looking to replace.

The Saints have not been just as competitive as we have been. Pick like any single metric over basically any time span between Brees leaving and now, and we are convincingly better.

Not sure what your agenda is, I thinking its because they made an aggressive move for a WR that paid off, clearly everything else must also be fine then? But that was just such an odd post from top to bottom, context, accuracy, conclusion, etc.

It has less to do with Olave and more to do with fans thinking GM's don't converse, they do, as to the trades, again you don't know that Loomis wasn't trying to move to get Olave either, and that whomever was at 12 didn't all of a sudden change his mind because a GM just in front of him took the player they wanted, my point is GM's adjust as players they desire are taken.
again my point in saying that thre Saints where just as competitive had to do with the Bree's years, and what has happened since is just Loomis keeping as much of the team together, just as we did when we lost Adams, I never even mentioned Olave, that had almost nothing at all to do with my point, mine was that some here gloated over what Loomis has done, when we basically did the same thing.

in our case we blamed our QB for the failed 22 season, not so much the GM for giving it the ol college try as we are with Loomis.

[Labrev]

That trade was ridiculous. They got a good player out of it, Olave, but they had way too many roster holes to make that kind of move for any position other than a QB.

They didn't even do it during the draft, they did it way before, so they had no way of knowing who was going to be there.

Yes, Saints' FO is a joke. Their management works if they have a QB but if not they are one of the worst FOs in the league.

of course they new Olave would be there, you seem to think GM's don't talk to each other or lack insider info concerning who is going to take certain players, blame Loomis all you want, the Saint where just as competitive as we've been.

So baffling sometimes how you just say things, just words, out of context, provably wrong.

They traded 18 for 16 and 19. So it's not like it was some mastermind trade to get into position to take Olave because they knew were he would go a month before the draft. They moved from 18 to 16.

They then further moved up to 11 to take Olave on draft day, sure seems like a great decision right now. However they surely could have moved from 18 to 11 just fine, especially with all the ammo they had. That previously mentioned trade, 18 for 16 and 19, almost has no impact on their ability and decision to independently decide to trade up to get Olave a month later.

Then they also took Trevor Penning at 19 who is a bust and they are already looking to replace.

The Saints have not been just as competitive as we have been. Pick like any single metric over basically any time span between Brees leaving and now, and we are convincingly better.

Not sure what your agenda is, I thinking its because they made an aggressive move for a WR that paid off, clearly everything else must also be fine then? But that was just such an odd post from top to bottom, context, accuracy, conclusion, etc.

Ohhhh they traded up on draft-day for Olave. I stand corrected. I thought they stayed pat at the pre-draft trade to take him.

Anyway, it was dumb for the other reasons I mentioned. Good player, but way too many roster holes to give up that many picks for a single non-QB position.

[Labrev]

I mean you can kiiiiinda argue it over the last two years. In both seasons, both teams were in the playoff hunt. They were one game worse than us in 2022. This year, they had the same record, but we edged them out for a playoff spot.

But our team was talented enough to go the distance in 2021 and 2023. Heck maybe even 2022 if we played like the team we were rather than the team were used to being.

No serious person can say the past three Saints teams would have been anything but Pretenders in the playoffs (but a certain unserious person might).

don't call me names, and I'am just as serious right now as I have been in this entire conversation

No, your seriousness is for us to judge, not for you to decide. I am sure you think you are being serious, but you are not.

No serious person would say the things you have been saying, like that the GM knows who is going to be available at a pick (other than #1 or #2) well in advance of the actual draft. That is straightforwardly false. You are just being a rebel without a cause as usual.

your gloating on those failures, thats all,

I was not really gloating so much as to say, "Team X put Theory X to the test. Here are the results."

And, there are worse results than the Saints'. Saints are a perennial middling team, not perennial bottom-feeders like the Raiders. So there may be some worthwhile stuff to take away from it than to wholesale reject it.

They are not, however, GOOD, or anything that anyone else wants to be. To the extent it has been tried, the results are uninspiring, and not worth following to the same extent as their FO has done this.

This is what it is like to live in the world of | n u a n c e | ... all alien to you, I'm sure, since you are ruled by emotion.

But if I were to gloat over their failures, that would be my right. It sucks to suck. If you do not like losing, then stop whining and start winning. Get good, or get used to people laughing at you.

[Pckfn23]

again my point in saying that thre Saints where just as competitive had to do with the Bree's years

Moving the goalposts now! The entire conversation has been about post-Brees.

[Yoop]

everyone knows GM's use a headset and are on the phone constantly in the days leading up to and on draft day gauging who will take whom, thats not some national secret, what seems very likely is that Loomis wanted Olave all along, the trade from 18 to 16 was a pre emptive trade to do so, then what seems even more likely is that Loomis found out that one of the GM's after slot 12 also wanted Olave so he traded up again to insure he'd get his man, and did.

and the Saints till 3 years ago where every bit as competitive as we've been, and no division has been any wimpier then the NFC north the last decade, how many times did we sew up the division by thanksgiving

[YoHoChecko]

It is both true that GMs and team officials have more information and better insight into what other teams might be thinking than we or even media insiders ever get.... AND that even well-informed GMs are often wrong, misled, and/or surprised by the way things actually play out.

You can't say that a deal made before the draft was made for a specific player as much as for a specific tier of player. The GM might have had, say, ten guys he'd be happy to come away with and didn't think he has a clear shot at any of the ten unless he picked in the top 12 or so. The trade to go get Olave was a trade to go get a player of that quality. Olave was probably among the targets all along, but if the move was made for a specific player, and the information was well-known enough to discern which player would be there for them, another team could/would hop up a spot or two to steal him. So the information can be pretty well-known but never too well-known. It's always a balance.

[Yoop]

hers what Loomis said

New Orleans traded up in the draft, from No. 18, in order to select Olave. Executive Vice President/General Manager Mickey Loomis said that simply followed a mantra: "You find somebody that you love and you go get him.

Loomis traded 5 picks to trade up and take Olave, pretty safe bet Olave was who Loomis wanted all along.

true GM's are coy with one another, but there also (at least many) friends, obviously there not going to tip there hand and hurt themselves, but generally speaking most aren't out to hurt others, obviously there are exceptions, I 'am sure some actually hate another, mostly though they live by the standard of what you sew you reap, I think my trade scenario's are pretty accurate, moving to 18 just wasn't low enough, so he had to trade even lower, and did so because he was informed Olave would be drafted sooner, maybe by whomever held slot 12

[BF004]

What is the prerequisite for getting hired by the Bears. Is it really just to be irresponsibly arrogant and confident in the summer and underprovide in fall?

[BF004]

[APB]

[Drj820]

Saints also been waiting out a huge cap jump, well it came today

[BF004]

Saints also been waiting out a huge cap jump, well it came today

Higher than expected cap does help those with the least space the most.

We were a bottom 16 team on space, so good for us