2024 Draft Discussion

[BF004]

[Chilli]

That's a very small group attending the draft this year. Possibly Levis fall last year scared them off.

Anyway does anyone know what's happening with Footballsfuture forum?

[TheSkeptic]

My latest, tried to trade up but ended up staying put but traded back later, draft. Seriously doubt we come away with 13 selections. But it affords me the opportunity to fill most spots I'd like to. Meant to grab an Edge earlier and missed my last target early in the 6th. In this scenario, I think I expect DeJean to play more CB, but who knows.

Tell me who's good and who sucks.
image.png

OK. Would love it if Cooper DeJean is there at 25. If he is, the Packers should get down on their knees and give thanks. But I don't think he will be.

At 41, an OT is a very bad choice. The sweet spot for an Olineman is the 4th round. And Olinemen are mostly useless on ST

At 58, a Dlineman is a waste. He is going to sit on the bench the whole year. He can't even play ST.

I like doubling up at ILB. I like doubling up (maybe 3) at Safety

A center at 169 is fine. Especially if he can also play guard

You might just as well throw the 191 pick and the 202 pick into the garbage. He has .000000000000000000000000001% chance of even making the PS. Alex McGough is a lot better than you think. There is no room for 5 TE's on the team.

In the last 2 rounds position really does not matter because you are just hoping for them to win a PS slot this year and it is a crap shoot after that regarding injuries and trades.

So I would give you a B+ based in the #25 pick and doubling up at ILB

[APB]

That's a very small group attending the draft this year. Possibly Levis fall last year scared them off.

Anyway does anyone know what's happening with Footballsfuture forum?

Where do I begin...

[BF004]

Anyway does anyone know what's happening with Footballsfuture forum?

I've offered to buy the site from Webby probably like 3 times now, he is never interested.

Just becoming a cesspool, or tech issues, broken?

[BF004]

I personally just wouldn’t move Tom, but thoughts?






Edit, blogger Fennell agrees with me.

[paco]

My latest, tried to trade up but ended up staying put but traded back later, draft. Seriously doubt we come away with 13 selections. But it affords me the opportunity to fill most spots I'd like to. Meant to grab an Edge earlier and missed my last target early in the 6th. In this scenario, I think I expect DeJean to play more CB, but who knows.

Tell me who's good and who sucks.
image.png

OK. Would love it if Cooper DeJean is there at 25. If he is, the Packers should get down on their knees and give thanks. But I don't think he will be.

At 41, an OT is a very bad choice. The sweet spot for an Olineman is the 4th round. And Olinemen are mostly useless on ST

At 58, a Dlineman is a waste. He is going to sit on the bench the whole year. He can't even play ST.

I like doubling up at ILB. I like doubling up (maybe 3) at Safety

A center at 169 is fine. Especially if he can also play guard

You might just as well throw the 191 pick and the 202 pick into the garbage. He has .000000000000000000000000001% chance of even making the PS. Alex McGough is a lot better than you think. There is no room for 5 TE's on the team.

In the last 2 rounds position really does not matter because you are just hoping for them to win a PS slot this year and it is a crap shoot after that regarding injuries and trades.

So I would give you a B+ based in the #25 pick and doubling up at ILB

Is this a joke response? I'm about the least knowledgable person on the draft this year, but I just don't get some of your responses.

Dejean - I doubt he's there too, but he was there in this mock so I went with it.

How is an OT at 41 a very bad choice? Who cares if he sits a year (you do realize we're the Packers, right?). Plus people say Morgan could likely be our day 1 starter at RG, or RT even we decide to move Tom.

Why is 58 a waste for a DT? Again, who cares if he sits. I picked him as a potential Clark replacement if they don't give him a new deal. I've heard good things.

The QB thing, I just wanted to draft a QB. Throw in a name for someone on day 3. Gutey wants to go back and draft QBs again, so I think its a good possibility, especially with this many picks. This TE seems to be a do everything guy. Sure he won't get a lot of play early, but could be on ST early and develop him. There's room for whatever the team feels like making room for.

Got it, day 3 picks don't matter, so why mock them. I'll strive to be one of those guys who never looks past round 1. Maybe one of those guys that never mocks past pick 10. Then I'll make the big time!

[Labrev]

If Tom were starting at LT, I would oppose moving him. I might honestly value a good C higher than RT. They make calls up front. If you have one who can hold his own and not need help, it makes life easier for the G's. At RT, you can find replacements that are playable more easily.

Also, our draft haul may decide Tom's fate. There are a few really nice C prospects at the top (JPJ, Barton, Frazier), but this draft is pretty loaded with T talent that could be playable starters very early.

[paco]

This O-line may get crazy mixed up this year or next. Wouldn't surprise me to see Jenkins starting at LT and Tom at Center, draft a bunch and see where everyone lands.

[BF004]

Part of the reason I don’t love OL in the first, it really forces your hand that player X will then basically have to play here. Especially hate a RT pick, Mims, Latham or Guyton, then you have to move Tom because those players couldn’t cut it anywhere else, you lose all that versatility.

Just pepper OL throughout, deep class. Give me a 2/3, a 4 a 6 and a 7 and see who plans out where.

[Labrev]

Especially hate a RT pick, Mims, Latham or Guyton, then you have to move Tom because those players couldn’t cut it anywhere else,

I think you can play Latham at G. He started at RG as a freshman. 6'6 is a bit tall for an IOL but at 345 he has the mass to take on DTs.

Mims probably is a RTO. Guyton I think is a swing tackle.

[YoHoChecko]

Mims has absolutely no side limitations in his profile. He can easily be a developmental left tackle

[BF004]

Mims has absolutely no side limitations in his profile. He can easily be a developmental left tackle

Just not for me and probably not Packers.

Too tall, too heavy, too inexperienced. Just not our type.

When someone says ‘he moves good for someone that big’, just means he doesn’t move good enough for the position.

[YoHoChecko]

Mims has absolutely no side limitations in his profile. He can easily be a developmental left tackle

Just not for me and probably not Packers.

Too tall, too heavy, too inexperienced. Just not our type.

When someone says ‘he moves good for someone that big’, just means he doesn’t move good enough for the position.

No, that's not what they mean about Mims. He genuinely moves incredibly well for the position despite his size. He easily clears every Packers athletic testing threshhold.

Further, we've been playing the 6'9" 340 Caleb Jones at Left Tackle in practice for two years now. So it doesn't seem like the Packers think you can be too tall to play left tackle.

[NCF]

Mims has absolutely no side limitations in his profile. He can easily be a developmental left tackle

Just not for me and probably not Packers.

Too tall, too heavy, too inexperienced. Just not our type.

When someone says ‘he moves good for someone that big’, just means he doesn’t move good enough for the position.

No, that's not what they mean about Mims. He genuinely moves incredibly well for the position despite his size. He easily clears every Packers athletic testing threshhold.

Further, we've been playing the 6'9" 340 Caleb Jones at Left Tackle in practice for two years now. So it doesn't seem like the Packers think you can be too tall to play left tackle.

Caleb Jones was an UDFA. Big difference there. I think the Packers will like Mims, but I would be shocked if they picked him based on inexperience alone. I don't have a good quick way of researching this, but I wonder how many of the Packers OL draft picks over the years were 4-year starters at their school. I think Mims only starting one year (even at Georgia) hurts him.

Just cruising the list of our assumed starters:

Walker - 36 games with 32 starts at LT over 4 seasons
Jenkins - 49 games with 34 starts over 4 seasons at 4 different positions
Myers - 31 games over 3 seasons with 21 starts at OC
Rhyan - 31 games over 3 seasons with 31 starts at LT
Tom - 48 games with 37 starts with 23 at LT

[YoHoChecko]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the inexperience takes him off the Packers' board. I was replying, though, to the comment made that Mims was a RTO.

[TheSkeptic]

My latest, tried to trade up but ended up staying put but traded back later, draft. Seriously doubt we come away with 13 selections. But it affords me the opportunity to fill most spots I'd like to. Meant to grab an Edge earlier and missed my last target early in the 6th. In this scenario, I think I expect DeJean to play more CB, but who knows.

Tell me who's good and who sucks.
image.png

OK. Would love it if Cooper DeJean is there at 25. If he is, the Packers should get down on their knees and give thanks. But I don't think he will be.

At 41, an OT is a very bad choice. The sweet spot for an Olineman is the 4th round. And Olinemen are mostly useless on ST

At 58, a Dlineman is a waste. He is going to sit on the bench the whole year. He can't even play ST.

I like doubling up at ILB. I like doubling up (maybe 3) at Safety

A center at 169 is fine. Especially if he can also play guard

You might just as well throw the 191 pick and the 202 pick into the garbage. He has .000000000000000000000000001% chance of even making the PS. Alex McGough is a lot better than you think. There is no room for 5 TE's on the team.

In the last 2 rounds position really does not matter because you are just hoping for them to win a PS slot this year and it is a crap shoot after that regarding injuries and trades.

So I would give you a B+ based in the #25 pick and doubling up at ILB

Is this a joke response? I'm about the least knowledgable person on the draft this year, but I just don't get some of your responses.

Dejean - I doubt he's there too, but he was there in this mock so I went with it.

How is an OT at 41 a very bad choice? Who cares if he sits a year (you do realize we're the Packers, right?). Plus people say Morgan could likely be our day 1 starter at RG, or RT even we decide to move Tom.

Why is 58 a waste for a DT? Again, who cares if he sits. I picked him as a potential Clark replacement if they don't give him a new deal. I've heard good things.

The QB thing, I just wanted to draft a QB. Throw in a name for someone on day 3. Gutey wants to go back and draft QBs again, so I think its a good possibility, especially with this many picks. This TE seems to be a do everything guy. Sure he won't get a lot of play early, but could be on ST early and develop him. There's room for whatever the team feels like making room for.

Got it, day 3 picks don't matter, so why mock them. I'll strive to be one of those guys who never looks past round 1. Maybe one of those guys that never mocks past pick 10. Then I'll make the big time!

And that is the problem with the mock draft apps. You are hardly the only one who uses them and forgets their limitations. So let me explain and please don't get upset. I am being critical of a very limited tool that you used, not about you.

The Packers should be a legitimate SB contender this year. They were 1 dropped interception away from beating the 49'ers a few months ago, with the youngest team to ever win a playoff game and a QB starting his first season. This is the time to plug a few holes and upgrade the backups and above all upgrade special teams. It is not the time to draft players who have almost zero chances of playing a single snap.

To my knowledge, the only QB in NFL history that made a significant contribution to ST is Taysom Hill. Your pick of a QB has no chance of replacing Jordan Love now or ever. Milton has an almost zero chance of replacing Sean Clifford this season or next. Maybe if he spend 2 years on the PS he could then compete with Clifford, but this coming season he would be behind Alex McGough who has proven himself to be a competent professional QB, maybe even special. In the preseason the Packers are likely to give Love 1/4 of the snaps and Clifford half of them and McGough 1/4 BECAUSE INJURIES might mean they need all 3. The last thing the Packers need is to miss a SB because Love is hurt and Clifford gets hurt and Milton falls apart under pressure, something McGough is unlikely to do. The Packers WILL be good enough to win a playoff game with a backup QB but not if it is Milton. So it is a totally wasted pick. Now go back to last year's draft. The Packers chose Brooks and Valentine and Johnson Jr late. They probably struck gold with all 3 and DuBose is possible also. You are wasting a pick that last year resulted in 3 big contributors and the Packers would NOT have made the playoffs last season without them. Now please tell me why you would choose a QB in the 6th round considering who the Packers already have. Use that pick to move up in a prior round, close your eyes and pick any other position, even a kicker, and you will do better.

Now the other unexplainable pick. Luke Musgrave. Tucker Kraft. Ben Sims. Tyler Davis. Where is there room for another TE? He has zero chances of being on the 53 this season. Zero as in 0.0000. If Kraft had not been solid gold, we would all be talking about what a great pickup Sims was. And Davis is a good blocking TE and a core ST player. The best your guy could hope for is the PS for 2 years. And as I said before, the Packers need players from this year's draft to be on the 53 if they really want the Lombardi trophy home again.

Now on to pick 58 who you chose a DT with. Is he going to take snaps from Clark? Absolutely not. From Wyatt? Absolutely not. From TJ Slayton? Absolutely not. From Karl Brooks who got 4 sacks and 1 forced fumble and 2 recovered fumbles and was a 24k gold pick in last year's draft? Those 4 are the rotation. Factor in a few snaps in the interior line for Van Ness and Gary and Wooden in desperation pass attempts and there is no room for your guy to be active in any of the 17 regular season games or any playoff game. I repeat, this is a potential SB team that need an ILB and a Safety and maybe a slot corner and maybe a outside corner to START and a swing OT as a key backup and a interior Olineman as a key backup. You cannot be taking a man who is almost guaranteed to sit on the pine for every single game this year in the 2nd round. Especially since rookie DT's do not play ST.

And now we get to the marginal pick, an OT at 41. This is for a backup to 2 young and improving OT's. And lets not forget that the Packers already have 2 OT's with excellent size who could be that swing tackle. In fact Tenuta and not Walker was penciled in to start at LT last season before he got hurt.

I know you don't want my opinion, but I take a safety and an ILB in the second round and start him. Because the Packers NEED a starter at those 2 positions. If Stokes never regains his health and speed, they need a STARTER at CB also. CB's get hurt a lot and they NEED 3 starting caliber outside CB's. Take the 4 picks, 166-202 and use them to move up in the first 3 rounds if someone really good falls within range. Use them to get DeJean at 21 rather than hope that he falls to 25 if you want. Move up a little in the 3rd round and get the man you want. Do SOMETHING useful with those picks.

I am not a draft expert either. But I am a Packers fan and I know the existing team. So probably do you. But that stupid app that does mock drafts has no clue where the Packers are strong and where they are not and where they need a backup and where they need a starter. It has no idea whether the Packers run a 3-4-4 D or a 4-3-4 or a 4-2-5. It has no idea that the Packers have the best WR corps in the league or that Love is a top 5 QB and that they have a stud RB and a solid 5 starting Oline and are 2 deep at every position in the Dline. Especially that app has no idea whether the Packers are a SB contender or starting a total rebuild. I do not agree with drafting only for need but when you have need at several positions, CB, Slot CB, Safety, ILB, Swing OT and interior line backup, there will be a viable player who fills an immediate need for every one of your draft picks.

[go pak go]

[go pak go]

Skeptic, I think Paco's draft app is far more reliable than your inability to believe in the benefits of positional competition as well as go beyond your arrogant view of incredible limited snaps leading to projection of "position is solid"

I have said it multiple times and I will keep saying it again.

Brian Gutekunst is making ZERO and I mean ZERO (as in a lower chance than us picking a TE as you stated) consideration of draft selections based on Alex McGough, Caleb Jones and Luke Tenuta.

If I had to bet money today, I would say the chance that even one of these guys makes the active roster is 40% at best. You don't make roster building decisions based on the 50th to 90th best players on your roster.

Tenuta and Jones made the roster based on potential fliers. That is it. We do it every year. Occasionaly you will get the production upside of a Yosh Nijman that actually gives some production but will always at best be a middling backup. And most of the time you never hear of the guy again the following year.

Finally, Briian Gutekunst himself stated he would like to get back into consistently drafting quarterbacks. Might be smarter to do it next year but if they see a guy they like...by gawd use a 6th or 7th on him. The draft essentially ends after Round 5 anyway.

[TheSkeptic]

Skeptic, I think Paco's draft app is far more reliable than your inability to believe in the benefits of positional competition as well as go beyond your arrogant view of incredible limited snaps leading to projection of "position is solid"

I have said it multiple times and I will keep saying it again.

Brian Gutekunst is making ZERO and I mean ZERO (as in a lower chance than us picking a TE as you stated) consideration of draft selections based on Alex McGough, Caleb Jones and Luke Tenuta.

If I had to bet money today, I would say the chance that even one of these guys makes the active roster is 40% at best. You don't make roster building decisions based on the 50th to 90th best players on your roster.

Tenuta and Jones made the roster based on potential fliers. That is it. We do it every year. Occasionaly you will get the production upside of a Yosh Nijman that actually gives some production but will always at best be a middling backup. And most of the time you never hear of the guy again the following year.

Finally, Briian Gutekunst himself stated he would like to get back into consistently drafting quarterbacks. Might be smarter to do it next year but if they see a guy they like...by gawd use a 6th or 7th on him.

The draft essentially ends after Round 5 anyway.

Tell that to Valentine 7th and Brooks 6th. And to Johnson Jr. 7th. The year before we got Walker our starting LT in the 7th. The year before McDuffie in the 6th. JRJ got what, 11 million this offseason? Historically Lawrence Guy 7th had a long and successful career on another team. James Starks 6th was a starting RB for the Packers for several years. Mason Crosby, 6th. Mark Tauscher, 7th. Donald Driver, 7th. Matt Hasselbeck 6th. Marco Rivera, 6th. Adam Timmerman, 7th. Bill Schroeder 6th. Doug Evans 6th. Mark Chmura 6th. Bryce Paup 6th. Don Majikowski. I won't go back any farther because I am already missing several who played mainly for other teams and so I don't remember who they were. Except for 1 more, Bart Starr, 17th.

Maybe you need a little help remembering who they were? Ask Ringo.

You can bet your bottom dollar that Brian Gutekunst is indeed making his draft selections, especially the late ones, based upon the 50th to 90th players already on the roster. Why draft a project this year when there is a project on last year's PS or IR that has already exceeded expectations just by not getting cut? It is his job to know if that 90th player has been busting his butt all offseason and is bigger, faster, stronger and smarter than he was a few months ago. There are at least 250 players who will be drafted this season, it is a lot more difficult to know which of those 250+ are busting their butts than the 90 already under some kind of contract. It is his job to know! It is the reason why some GM's produce SB teams and others never have a team that makes the playoffs.

Well, maybe you think throwing away mid to late round picks to draft someone who has no chance is better than betting on the guys like Tenuta and Jones and McGough who already did enough to make last year's team or PS and are coming to this year;s camp.