2024 Draft Discussion

[BF004]

Both Penix and Nix both getting a lot of momentum lately to go top 15-ish. Honestly would be great for us, pushing two more guys down. Or more likely a guy like Terrion Arnold drops to 15 or 16 and we make a move up.

[Yoop]

ya still have to positional draft, there is no way out of that, this is not the 60's where players are content to stay with one team because family and staying in one place supersedes the few dollars more they could get from Cleveland money today changes that land scape, and those leaving absolutely need to be replaced.

teams have to have a QB, they also have to have players that can limit production from that QB, so if they need a edge rusher or CB they will figure out how to line up slot value to take that guy, they have to

again if ya have a 12 slot Gary, and a 15 slot LVN, why would you again use your first rounder on a edge rusher, redundancy does not make you better if you leave boundary CB weak ( or other positions.

yes plan for the future, not saying not to, it's also irresponsible to not fix a weak spot simply because ya lose several value points, winning is the most important thing here, right?

I hear that loud and clear. But I'm not drafting that CB if he's 30th on my board at 12. It's bad drafting to force need.

Didn't JJ watt go 12? Would you say hey pass on him bc Kevin king is there and we are desperate at cb? I wouldn't. We took Gary after signing both Smiths. It's not BPA. It's more BVA. If 2 guys are close in the same tier yes I understand making position matter no doubt. My example is extreme I know but all I'm saying is let the pieces fall. No safety is worth a 1st this year (unless Cooper is playing safety).

I also just can't support get this position at this pick thinking. It kinda drives my nuts

You might be echoing what Ted Thompson said many years. He wasn't necessarily a BPA guy. He would not pick a player because of position either. He wanted the value at every pick. And if he had a choice of two or more players that had same value, THEN he would look at the position need.

sorry to disagree Scott, but imho Ted was a fixer, he drafted positional need almost always

just go look at his 1st and 2nd round picks, typically positions of need, just look at Randle, or all the DL players taken, sure, obviously he sprinkled in what we may term as luxury picks or strictly BPA, but usually he looked for BTA (best team value), like Raji over that highly touted WR (Crabtree???)

to me it would be irresponsible not to blend those two approaches when building a team, jmo

[lupedafiasco]

I actually like Nix quite a bit as a prospect. I think hes a guy with the potential to win with. I dont view Penix the same way. I think he will win games but in the way you could with a young Andy Dalton or a current Tua Tagovoila. Hes just fine but I dont think he has the potential to put you over the top.

[BF004]

I actually like Nix quite a bit as a prospect. I think hes a guy with the potential to win with. I dont view Penix the same way. I think he will win games but in the way you could with a young Andy Dalton or a current Tua Tagovoila. Hes just fine but I dont think he has the potential to put you over the top.

Nix is only like 18 months younger than Jordan Love.

I think he was like 116th in avg yards to target last year out of 120 QB' and lead the league in throws behind the LOS. Those numbers might be a bit off.

Not my cup of tea all around, reminds me of Brandon Weeden. I hope we can snag LV's, NYG's or Denver's 2025 1st for either of them to to 25 to get Penix or Nix.

[BF004]

I hope we can snag LV's, NYG's or Denver's 2025 1st for either of them to to 25 to get Penix or Nix.

Blogger boy did some of the research here for me.

[BF004]

Fwiw

[YoHoChecko]

Yeah historically under TT and BG the 30 visits have much more to do after round one than before it.

Highly-ranked guys who get a 30 visit likely have a specific question the team wants to answer through a visit or their own medical team. Early picks have a lot more research done on them before/outside of the visits, and the significance of hitting or missing and the money you're paying is so much higher, so if there are outstanding questions, it makes sense to bring them in.

Under TT we did almost exclusively Day Three/UDFA types. BG still does some of those, as well; and those I think are super useful to recruit UDFAs and to get a sense of guys you don't get as much detail in from the standard process due to small school or less available information.

But the first round, we like to keep things close to the vest, so a visit can tip people off and likely is only going to be used if necessary.

[BF004]

I hammered this idea last year, bill is a petty guy.

[Scott4Pack]

I hope we can snag LV's, NYG's or Denver's 2025 1st for either of them to to 25 to get Penix or Nix.

Blogger boy did some of the research here for me.

I would not be against that type of trade one bit. Of all years, I'd actually prefer us to trade back more this year than in the past. So, it'd make sense to get a haul like this.

[YoHoChecko]

I'm concerned about this C class's arm length if we don't get a top guy

Under TT and BG we have never drafted an OL with arms shorter than 32 inches.

Under 32" arms this year:
Tanor Bortolini
Sedrick Van Pran-Granger
Beaux Limmer
Dylon McMahon

Those are the exact types of athletes we'd normally target. But the arms.

[NCF]

I'm concerned about this C class's arm length if we don't get a top guy

Under TT and BG we have never drafted an OL with arms shorter than 32 inches.

Under 32" arms this year:
Tanor Bortolini
Sedrick Van Pran-Granger
Beaux Limmer
Dylon McMahon

Those are the exact types of athletes we'd normally target. But the arms.

I would say OC is where it tends to matter the least. Corey Linsley and Josh Myers were exactly 32" and Scott Wells tested shy of 32" and that covers the majority of our preferred starter history from 2006-Current. It's not ideal but I think these guys can function as long as don't stray too much from the threshold. Bortolini and Van Pran-Granger miss by more than 1/2", so that is more concerning than the other two guys who are within a 1/4".

[Yoop]

I'm concerned about this C class's arm length if we don't get a top guy

Under TT and BG we have never drafted an OL with arms shorter than 32 inches.

Under 32" arms this year:
Tanor Bortolini
Sedrick Van Pran-Granger
Beaux Limmer
Dylon McMahon

Those are the exact types of athletes we'd normally target. But the arms.

I would say OC is where it tends to matter the least. Corey Linsley and Josh Myers were exactly 32" and Scott Wells tested shy of 32" and that covers the majority of our preferred starter history from 2006-Current. It's not ideal but I think these guys can function as long as don't stray too much from the threshold. Bortolini and Van Pran-Granger miss by more than 1/2", so that is more concerning than the other two guys who are within a 1/4".

I agree, the most important trait for a center is gray matter, (chuckle) imho one of the reasons Myers declined was that so had Runyan, Myers may not have the power we'd all like, but a better RG imo will also help Myers (any center) simply because of the combo 2 on 1 blocking which is often the case, even in pass pro, G's and C often work in unison.

to me Center is physically the weakest or least physically demanding position on the line, yet the one with the more mentally challenging tasks.

I know I read something like that once or twice, here's another that talks about it, awe chit, I deleted it from browser, your just going to have to take my word for it

I'll try and find it again later

[packman114]

I started looking at past drafts and had totally forgot we drafted Robbie Bosco in 2nd round of 1986 draft. In looking at the QBs drafted that year it must have been the worst QB draft in history. The only two first round QBs were Jim Everett and Chuck Long.

Did Bosco get hurt or did he just suck? Anyone remember?

[RingoCStarrQB]

I started looking at past drafts and had totally forgot we drafted Robbie Bosco in 2nd round of 1986 draft. In looking at the QBs drafted that year it must have been the worst QB draft in history. The only two first round QBs were Jim Everett and Chuck Long.

Did Bosco get hurt or did he just suck? Anyone remember?

He lasted 2 years on the Packers roster, His career ended with a shoulder injury.

[RingoCStarrQB]

[go pak go]

I'm concerned about this C class's arm length if we don't get a top guy

Under TT and BG we have never drafted an OL with arms shorter than 32 inches.

Under 32" arms this year:
Tanor Bortolini
Sedrick Van Pran-Granger
Beaux Limmer
Dylon McMahon

Those are the exact types of athletes we'd normally target. But the arms.

I would say OC is where it tends to matter the least. Corey Linsley and Josh Myers were exactly 32" and Scott Wells tested shy of 32" and that covers the majority of our preferred starter history from 2006-Current. It's not ideal but I think these guys can function as long as don't stray too much from the threshold. Bortolini and Van Pran-Granger miss by more than 1/2", so that is more concerning than the other two guys who are within a 1/4".

I agree, the most important trait for a center is gray matter, (chuckle) imho one of the reasons Myers declined was that so had Runyan, Myers may not have the power we'd all like, but a better RG imo will also help Myers (any center) simply because of the combo 2 on 1 blocking which is often the case, even in pass pro, G's and C often work in unison.

to me Center is physically the weakest or least physically demanding position on the line, yet the one with the more mentally challenging tasks.

I know I read something like that once or twice, here's another that talks about it, awe chit, I deleted it from browser, your just going to have to take my word for it

I'll try and find it again later

My belief is that Josh Meyers has never been good.

It's just that Josh Meyers got the benefit of the doubt in 2021 because he was a rookie and we always put rookie play on a curved pedestal due to lower expectations.

Additionally, Josh Meyers only played 6 games in 2021 so his sample size was small which meant less opportunity for people to see he wasn't that good.

Josh Meyers has a good ceiling. That has never been his problem. Consistency is his problem.

[APB]

My belief is that Josh Meyers has never been good.

It's just that Josh Meyers got the benefit of the doubt in 2021 because he was a rookie and we always put rookie play on a curved pedestal due to lower expectations.

Additionally, Josh Meyers only played 6 games in 2021 so his sample size was small which meant less opportunity for people to see he wasn't that good.

Josh Meyers has a good ceiling. That has never been his problem. Consistency is his problem.

See, I think you're grading Myers way too harshly.

This offense wouldn't consistently perform as an above average unit in both pass and run efficiency if Josh Myers was such a terrible liability. Myers wouldn't consistently rate as a capable player in national publications if he was such a liability.

Sure, he could be more consistent, but his consistency traits trend toward competent play with the occasional bad play rather than the consistent poor play with occasional competent play mixed in as you seem to be inferring. And yes, I concede 2023 wasn't a stellar year for him - probably his worst year as a pro - but, again, he wasn't Royce Newman terrible by any means. With an upcoming draft featuring interior OL players that project highly and a roster with few critical needs, it wouldn't surprise me to see a center chosen high. That wouldn't necessarily convince me that Myers was a critical piece that needed replacing, but rather an opportunity for Gute to realize an upgrade at a prioritized position.

Myers is not All-Pro, I'll grant you that. But he is a player who is capable and a player you can win with. I don't feel he's near the critical piece that needs replacing as some of you seem to be pushing.

[Yoop]

My belief is that Josh Meyers has never been good.

It's just that Josh Meyers got the benefit of the doubt in 2021 because he was a rookie and we always put rookie play on a curved pedestal due to lower expectations.

Additionally, Josh Meyers only played 6 games in 2021 so his sample size was small which meant less opportunity for people to see he wasn't that good.

Josh Meyers has a good ceiling. That has never been his problem. Consistency is his problem.

See, I think you're grading Myers way too harshly.

This offense wouldn't consistently perform as an above average unit in both pass and run efficiency if Josh Myers was such a terrible liability. Myers wouldn't consistently rate as a capable player in national publications if he was such a liability.

Sure, he could be more consistent, but his consistency traits trend toward competent play with the occasional bad play rather than the consistent poor play with occasional competent play mixed in as you seem to be inferring. And yes, I concede 2023 wasn't a stellar year for him - probably his worst year as a pro - but, again, he wasn't Royce Newman terrible by any means. With an upcoming draft featuring interior OL players that project highly and a roster with few critical needs, it wouldn't surprise me to see a center chosen high. That wouldn't necessarily convince me that Myers was a critical piece that needed replacing, but rather an opportunity for Gute to realize an upgrade at a prioritized position.

Myers is not All-Pro, I'll grant you that. But he is a player who is capable and a player you can win with. I don't feel he's near the critical piece that needs replacing as some of you seem to be pushing.

I think Fans want to give up on Myers because he hasn't been as good as that other center we passed on, thats about it.

from what I've read he's been a top 10 center since we drafted him, hurt his rookie season he still played well in the games he did play

5 sacks and 9 pressures in 2022, 6 pressures and 11 hurries 2023 is not a bad player.

course when someone says SOMEONE from the team says Toms would be a HOF bound center naturally fans want him moved there and Myers shown the door, normal reaction I suppose

[paco]

Can someone explain to me why center is so under-valued like I'm 5? Seems to me it would be the most or 2nd most important on the line.

[paco]

I didn't get to listen to it, but reading snippits on Gutey's presser. Some intersting tidbits.

*Likes DeJean's versatitily, would like a do-everything guy at safety.
*There is definitely some subterfuge in "top-30" visits.
*Would like to add even more picks (13-14)
*Wants variety on the OL. (Might want to stay away from mocking top huge OT's this year).