Jordan Morgan, OL, Arizona 2024 1st Round Pick, #25

[Drj820]

You guys are watching too much Andy Herman

I would like to give you a special award for best post ever in history of forum. I did not expect to give this award to you, but here we are. Well done.

[Yoop]

You guys are watching too much Andy Herman and only Andy Herman. Broaden your opinion base. It runs the gamut here. You can read reports where it says he has good strength and nastiness in the run game, then reports where he needs a better anchor. You can read reports where he is the best pass blocking tackle in the league and others where he gets knocked back too often. The TWO constants I have been reading is his hands tend to be inconsistent at times and low and that he tends to overset in his kick step and be susceptible to inside pass rushing moves. I suspect the latter is what some mistakes as a lack of strength and him getting bullrushed.

I've seen Morgan graded mostly as the 7th ranked tackle in this draft class, and his versatility probably jumps his value above that, 9 tackles where taken round 1, I expect Morgan will start for us game one at either G or tackle.

I just don't understand all the knock on this guy, we all know this was a talented and deep OL class, imho a normal draft and Morgan goes off earlier then slot 25, we'll find out once camp starts

also it's not Herman, it's who Herman listens to, who Herman gets opinions from.

[LombardiTime]

It seems apparent from how quickly the pick was made, the potential trade downs that were offered but not taken, and Gutey's comments last evening, that Jordan Morgan was the Pack's preferred selection.

Nearly every Packer fan recognized the need at OL/Tackle going into the draft.

Morgan was a consensus top 40 player.

Green Bay certainly has needs elsewhere, LB and secondary at the top of that list.

However, unless and until Morgan falters on the field, I fail to see how this pick can definitively be declared a poor one.

[YoHoChecko]

I just want to say that I arrived at all of these conclusions before listening to Herman at all for the draft.

I'm basing it on Wahle and Uglem's film breakdown videos... Jim Nagy (positive), and lots of clips I keep seeing on twitter; Dane Brugler's The Beast; The PFF draft guys, The Ringer draft guys, and The Athletic's other football guys (Mays and Tice)

He's a good player. But he is not ready to play. And when I think of raw, athletic OTs, I think of Day Two or Three. His hands are BADbad and some people blame that for why he gets knocked back (doesn't protect and keep defenders out of his chest). Some say with better technique he can make up for shorter arms. Others say that because his technique is unrefined, his short arms will force him inside.


I know statistically he allowed VERY few sacks and pressures. That's good. He's a guy who gets the job done. But power rushers in the NFL will destroy him if he doesn't get a lot better at playing football and that's not how you want to feel about a first rounder.

I just really wanted someone who could push for a starting RT/RG immediately or someone who could push for a starting RG or C immediately. Push for it. Maybe he will learn quickly and respond to coaching and be ready super soon. But man, he was just cruising on his athleticism in college, which is not ideal for a guy who played 5 years.

He's fine. I bet he'll be good. But he's a riskier pick than I wanted, a less polished pick than I wanted, and has less demonstrated versatility than I wanted. Usually I have some disappointment and talk myself into a pick as I learn more. This was a guy I was familiar with as a possible Packers target but the more I look, the less excited I am. I hope he improves fast and proves me wrong. That'd be great. I just don't know how much better this guy is than a handful of similar players (or even players whose fit I liked better) that are still available.

I do like him going before Guyton; Guyton is also developmental and is tackle-only. And I liked Barton a ton, so it's not just that I don't like the general position choice. I just didn't realize when looking at this guy on a cursory level how sloppy his play is.

[Pckfn23]

For anyone doubting the selection, too, I was told by a league source that the assumption is that Morgan was well-liked by the Baltimore Ravens and was expected to be their selection if he remained on the board to the 30th pick. Mind you, we don’t know whether the Tampa Bay Buccaneers or Dallas Cowboys — who picked offensive linemen in the first round after Morgan was selected — would have chosen him given the opportunity, either.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2024 ... aiatu-latu

This is why knocking this pick because, "we could have gotten him at 41" is ignorant. It is basing it SOLELY on outside draftnik information.

[Pckfn23]

He's a good player. But he is not ready to play. And when I think of raw, athletic OTs, I think of Day Two or Three. His hands are BADbad and some people blame that for why he gets knocked back (doesn't protect and keep defenders out of his chest). Some say with better technique he can make up for shorter arms. Others say that because his technique is unrefined, his short arms will force him inside.

I am sorry, but you can't say you are reading all those opinion and coming up with an opinion based on the evidence. The tape and opinions of other draftnicks does NOT paint that picture. Regardless of the pick itself, this is not how his draft profile reads. Calling him developmental is way out of left field.

[Pckfn23]

[Labrev]

Morgan is built a bit better than Spriggs. Spriggs was like 6'6/300, and he looked like a TE. Morgan at 6'5/310 has a more solid frame.

He needs to add strength and get better at anchoring, but that is common for guys coming out of college. As a rookie, Zach Tom was one the smallest-looking OL I had ever seen, but he was up to the task at T (even G at times) purely on athleticism.

The guy I am more worried about him being is Robert Gallery; his arm size is a concern. I feel like 33" should be a hard cut-off. I know he is ever-so-slightly under the mark there at 32" 7/8, but as the saying goes, it is a "game of inches" and those fractions manifest into changed outcomes; plays are made because one player was juuust out of reach from preventing it.

At least Gallery's team was able to salvage their investment in him by moving him inside. We do have that security with Morgan, at least.

Daryn Colledge, anyone??

[YoHoChecko]

He's a good player. But he is not ready to play. And when I think of raw, athletic OTs, I think of Day Two or Three. His hands are BADbad and some people blame that for why he gets knocked back (doesn't protect and keep defenders out of his chest). Some say with better technique he can make up for shorter arms. Others say that because his technique is unrefined, his short arms will force him inside.

I am sorry, but you can't say you are reading all those opinion and coming up with an opinion based on the evidence. The tape and opinions of other draftnicks does NOT paint that picture. Regardless of the pick itself, this is not how his draft profile reads. Calling him developmental is way out of left field.

I can't??

Ok, here's a thing you said:

The TWO constants I have been reading is his hands tend to be inconsistent at times and low and that he tends to overset in his kick step and be susceptible to inside pass rushing moves.

Now, I think the hand thing is understated by you. They are bad, not inconsistent. But even then you just said it is universal that his hands are not good and that he is susceptible to inside moves.

So here's Dane Brugler's one-line summary:

. Overall, Morgan struggles to anchor mid-slide versus power, but he is a balanced mover who is well-schooled and physical in all phases. Though he can survive at tackle in the NFL, his skill set projects much better inside at guard, similar to Matthew Bergeron

LOTS of analysts see him as a guy who might need to move to guard, someone who struggles against power, and someone whose hand uses and kick-slides need a lot of refinement. I don't see why that doesn't make him a longer-term development project than a pro-ready player. Like I said, I literally haven't followed ANY Pack-A-Day heading into the draft. No CheesheadTV. No Herman whatsoever. Honestly. I've been all about the national guys.


And I'll say as a Maryland resident, the Ravens fans were talking a lot about him being a likely target at 30, so I'm not calling him a reach in terms of where he should go. I immediately posted that Nate Tice loves this guy (had him 25th on the big board). You'd be hard pressed to find him below 40 on anyone's board and so 25-40 range pre-draft is perfectly consistent with a team having him the top guy at 25.

I'm simply looking at his overall profile and wondering how much work needs to be done to get him ready--wondering if the versatility the team is projecting will actually play out as we hope, and wondering why he was in college for 5 years and still puts his hands outside the defender's pads SO often. He's got the tools, but he's far less of a sure thing and I'm far less sold on his versatility than advertised.

It might pan out, he might stink when he reverses his movements and be a left-side only player (some guys are better switching tackle to guard on the same side. Some people are better switching side to side at the same position. Some guys can just naturally do all the required movements; Morgan has never been tested, like a lot of other guys who started out their careers at different positions than they ended it. We do a lot of LT to other position conversions and should be given the benefit of the doubt to spot it, but we usually do them on Day Three. And if he's staying at LT, I have no reason to believe he's better today than Walker has developed into. If he develops into a better player, great.


I'm not ANTI this pick. I just don't love it. He's a Packers OL target. There are just a number of factors that give me pause. And after they tried to outthink the league with Myers over Creed and I gave them the benefit of the doubt, I'm gonna go ahead and express my trepidations about this one. He feels like a tackle-only skillset with guard arms going to a team that needs a guard more than a tackle and who values versatility they HOPE he possesses, but have not seen.

[YoHoChecko]

Also, @lupedafiasco, he's 310-315, not 325. So he does have room to add strength. And he needs to (or maybe he will just fix this through better mechanics; I dunno which leads to what)

[YoHoChecko]

It's frustrating that you can't express a little ambivalence or uncertainty about a very uncertain process without it being read as "this is a bad pick" or "I hate it" or some sort of bias.

This guy, even though he definitely would have gone before pick 41, just reeks of a second/third round value at a first round price. And given the athletic dynamos we have taken later in the draft proving that the same high ceiling upside exists there, that feels like a realistic take (not saying just because we've done it, we always can; but just to say there is no mythical "you have to go early to get this upside" argument)

This pick is fine, and the Packers really like it. They didn't want to move up. They had many options to move down. They had him rated high enough that the pick was "easy." There was tons of smoke that this is a guy who would be targeted by guys in our scheme. It's not the Packers being brainless or anything. I just think the player is a lot more high-variance than, say, @Pckfn23 does. That's not because I have bad or limited sources. It's because I gathered a ton of info and formed a conclusion based on my own preferences and insights.

[wallyuwl]

His shuffle just looks slow. Bends waist and not hips when he starts to get beat around the edge, because his feet are slow. Definitely don't like him as a LT. He might do OK at guard.

[Yoop]

I just want to say that I arrived at all of these conclusions before listening to Herman at all for the draft.

I'm basing it on Wahle and Uglem's film breakdown videos... Jim Nagy (positive), and lots of clips I keep seeing on twitter; Dane Brugler's The Beast; The PFF draft guys, The Ringer draft guys, and The Athletic's other football guys (Mays and Tice)

as most of us did, possibly not as deep as you, but I get the impression you feel unless a person listens to every draft dude there probably wrong.

Herman is not some guy biased by any player, he had no skin in saying Morgan was deserving of the slot he was taken or in that specific range, actually he was hoping we could trade back to slot 32 and still gotten Morgan, reality is though there was no guarantee Morgan would still be the re with Dallas and Baltimore also wanting a OL player,

also almost every OL pick we've taken the last decade need some coaching up, and there is nothing about Morgan that wont improve under NFL coaching.

[Pckfn23]

It's frustrating that you can't express a little ambivalence or uncertainty about a very uncertain process without it being read as "this is a bad pick" or "I hate it" or some sort of bias.

This guy, even though he definitely would have gone before pick 41, just reeks of a second/third round value at a first round price. And given the athletic dynamos we have taken later in the draft proving that the same high ceiling upside exists there, that feels like a realistic take (not saying just because we've done it, we always can; but just to say there is no mythical "you have to go early to get this upside" argument)

This pick is fine, and the Packers really like it. They didn't want to move up. They had many options to move down. They had him rated high enough that the pick was "easy." There was tons of smoke that this is a guy who would be targeted by guys in our scheme. It's not the Packers being brainless or anything. I just think the player is a lot more high-variance than, say, @Pckfn23 does. That's not because I have bad or limited sources. It's because I gathered a ton of info and formed a conclusion based on my own preferences and insights.

Example is the hand placement. This can be inconsistent at times, which you then transform into his hands are bad all the time. My gripe isn't about deriding ambivalence, it is about over stating a case. 1 video is shown on twitter that shows him oversetting and getting beat inside and now he has no strength. Would you react the same to my statement if I said he is the best LT in this draft and based it off of the 1 video of him shutting down Latu along with taking all the positive things about him and blowing those out of proportion? I would hope you would.

[Pckfn23]

[Labrev]

I am rolling with Morgan = Daryn Colledge, for better or for worse.

My hope is we take the opposite approach with him. I think Colledge was meant to play T coming out of Boise State, really athletic pass-pro OL, but we miscast him at G because Clifton was still going strong at LT, he struggled inside, but then by the time he grew into the G position, we put him at LT against Jared Allen and it was a disaster, as he no longer had the movement skills or technique for it, moving him back to LG after that. He had a nice Year 3 at LG but was otherwise very meh.

Play him at T 'til he fails, then move him inside, by which point he will have hopefully added the bulk/strength to offset his issues with power.

[paco]

Does this fan base know how to be happy anymore? I think not.

Not everything is Kevin King/TJ Watt or Myers/Humphrey or Mandrich/anyone else that year.

Sorry, already a bit burned out on people acting like Morgan was a wasted pick and Barton is a surefire HOFer (not just on here). It's fine to have an opinion, good or bad! But the absolutes kill me before the guy even signs his contract and steps on an NFL field.

Try to sit back and enjoy and have hope and maybe a bit of a positive outlook (this is coming from someone who is negative 99% of the time in everyday life). We've been pretty damn good the last, hmmm 40 years straight? Bears think they are best in the division EVERY OFFSEASON, and they continually F it up. We aren't them and I'm happy about that.

Rant over, talk to you guys in a few hours, Go Pack Go.

[BF004]

[YoHoChecko]

Inconsistent hands and bad hands are not the big distinction you think it is.

And look, I do know how to be happy and filled with hope. I LOVE draft weekend. I’m routinely accused of being a homer and looking at the packers moves with green and gold glasses. I’m frequently incredibly defensive of the team, the GM, and their moves.

This pick was meh. There’s nothing wrong with saying so. I see all the variation in the analysis and I know a lot of people say he’s ready. But I’ve looked at people I like and trust and I think this is a high variance gamble on tackle upside and I wanted something slightly different on the OL this year. I don’t trust his versatility because it’s purely projection. And I like my 5th year seniors with sound fundamentals.

This is a reasonable reaction to a pick that is fine but not a needle mover. The only reason it feels overly negative is because I continue to defend it so it becomes repetitive.

I’ll be labeled a Morgan hater but I’m just a Morgan shrugger. I shrug. And the draft is exciting and I like to react in ways that are more positive than a shrug.

[Pckfn23]

@YoHoChecko you literally typed: "His hands are BAD bad." You have to see that that is far from saying inconsistent.