Cheese Curds - News Around the League 2024

[lupedafiasco]

In no way is Loves development or the Packers or any other team for that matter is better Without Adams. Good players win games. Adams is still better than every WR we have and that’s not even remotely debateable. That’s like saying Rashan Gary is a better player than Jaire Alexander.

[RingoCStarrQB]

In no way is Loves development or the Packers or any other team for that matter is better Without Adams. Good players win games. Adams is still better than every WR we have and that’s not even remotely debateable. That’s like saying Rashan Gary is a better player than Jaire Alexander.

Gary is so overrated..... it's sickening

[APB]

NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reports the Dolphins are expected to sign WR Odell Beckham.

OBJ’s deal is reportedly for one year and up to $8.25 million. His base salary will be $3 million. Dolphins head coach Mike McDaniel said in late March that the team had made an offer to Beckham, but according to the Miami Herald’s Barry Jackson, base salary and incentives were sticking points between the two sides. Beckham was used sparingly in 2023, his only season in Baltimore. Operating mostly as a downfield threat, he had 35 receptions for 565 yards and three touchdowns as the third option in the Ravens’ passing offense. Beckham’s addition to the Miami wideout room is a potential complication for hyper-productive rookie WR Malik Washington. The rookie could see significant playing time in three-receiver sets if (or when) Beckham, 31, struggles with various injuries that have hampered him for years.

So how about Odell Beckham? With all the talk about an elite talent like Davante Adams (as argued) helping or hindering the development of Love and/or the WRs currently on the roster, where is the line drawn?

Would Beckham help or hinder the Packer roster at this point?

[YoHoChecko]

ODB hasn’t been an above average receiver in this league in years. He’s nothing more than a name right now. He’d be no higher than WR3 for the packers in 2024 and as low as WR5 depending on development.

I don’t understand the continued league wide media interest and especially packer fan interest in this man. His year to year contracts and their values should be a sign by now that the league sees him as a backup rotational player, which he is.

[Yoop]

never understood why some here wanted to use a high draft pick on a receiver this last draft, and I sure don't get this talk for ODB, or Adams, we already have a very good group, who I doubt any are even close to there ceiling, adding a blue chip curtails the progress of the group

[APB]

never understood why so many here wanted to use a high draft pick ona receiver this last draft...

I didn't realize there were "so many here" who wanted to draft a WR high...?

Sure, there were comments made in evaluating players and "what if" scenarios in the event a player dropped, but I don't recall a single poster advocating for the team to target a WR high. Perhaps you could pluck a few examples from the "so many" pool of examples?

To the point of this side conversation, it's pretty clear there is a defining line somewhere between Davante Adams and Odell Beckham in terms of "help or hinder" roster building with some opinions. That's why we're having the conversation.

[YoHoChecko]

I will say: I agree with @lupedafiasco that Adams is a better WR than we have on the roster and that having Adams on any NFL roster makes that NFL team better.

But I disagree with lupe, and agree with @go pak go that having Adams on the roster for Love’s development may not have been ideal.

Basically my feeling is that Adams gives QBs an “easy mode.” Playing on easy mode is good for short term outcomes but may prevent a developing player from ever refining and learning some of the more fundamental or nuanced parts of his game. You have to struggle through increased difficulty levels to actually get to the highest level of performance.

But once you’ve done the work and learned and made it through that, going back and playing on easy mode sure does looks and feel awesome.

I think the line between making it easy enough for a young QB to succeed and learn and grow instead of getting crushed and developing bad habits and losing confidence…. versus making it too easy to rely on one or two great players and therefore not go through the experience of learning the whole offense or the whole field or how to respond on the field when the top targets are taken away…

It’s a very fine line. And reasonable people can debate exactly how to implement that.

I think if Adams were on the team last year the first half of the season the offense would have looked and performed MUCH better than it did in reality. But I’m also not sure if the second half of the season’s ascension ever would have taken place.

[Drj820]

I don’t think rodgers constantly intentionally fed Adams the ball and ignored others bc Adams was “easy mode”

I think it was two fold: 1) rodgers oddly needs to “trust” you to throw to you (which is weird, well he trusted adams)

And 2) adams and rodgers are just homies. And rodgers values playing with homies more than improving the entire team. Rodgers wanted adams to get his stats. He wanted to help him run his numbers up. Rodgers wanted to run his own numbers up! And the two of them teamed up to focus on doing just that.

It’s like the year rodgers decided he loved Tonyan and he forced him the ball non stop near the goalline.

I don’t think Love would have those same odd allegiances to his “buddy” Adams.

[Crazylegs Starks]

Mark Murphy actually got a laugh out of me in this re-telling of his draft weekend:

https://www.packers.com/news/mt5-green- ... -the-clock

John from Algoma

I love watching the NFL Draft. My favorite parts are when they show players at home with their family members. It's great drama – seeing their anxiousness as they wait for the call and then the relief when they are final drafted. What was your draft day experience like?

I absolutely agree with you, John. The drama is what makes the draft so popular. The draft was very different back when I was a senior at Colgate in 1977, but I do have a very unique draft day story. The draft was 12 rounds then and was held over two days. There was much less information about the draft back then, so I wasn't sure whether or where I would be drafted and what to expect.

On the first day of the draft, I received a call from George Allen, the head coach of the Washington Redskins (who was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2002). He said that they really liked me and that they would fly me down to the D.C. area and draft me. I was so excited. I flew down and a van picked me up and drove me to the Marriott at Dulles Airport. By the time I got to the hotel it was late in the evening, and the first day of the draft had ended.

I got up early the next morning, ready to be drafted. The Redskins put me in a van with four other college players, and we drove into Washington, D.C., about a 45-minute drive. They gave us a nice driving tour of the city, and then took us to a great restaurant in the city for lunch. There were no cell phones back then, and the driver of the van kept stopping and going to phone booths. Finally, in the late afternoon, they drove us out to the Redskins' practice facility. Coach Allen called me into his office and said that the draft had just ended and that I wasn't drafted, but that they wanted to sign me as a free agent. They offered me a two-year contract ($19,000 and $21,000) with a $2,500 signing bonus. He said I should take a minute, read through the contract and sign it. He then turned to his assistant and said that if I didn't sign the contract, they should call the safety from Oklahoma that they liked so much.

I then called back to my apartment and talked to my girlfriend (who is my wife now). She said that six teams had called and wanted to sign me. To make a long story shorter, the Redskins never had any intention of drafting me and hid me out so that no other team could reach me. Coach Allen was famous for trading away draft picks, so he had to come up with other ways to sign rookies. I was able to talk to the other teams, finally. They all wanted me to switch to play linebacker, while the Redskins wanted me to play safety. I was much more comfortable playing safety, and although I wasn't pleased with what the Redskins did to me, I decided to sign with them, and I was able to get a little more money from them!

After I made the team at the end of training camp, Coach Allen called me his 13th-round draft choice. Although I wasn't happy with what Coach Allen did to me (the NFL prohibited teams from flying players into their facilities during the draft shortly after my experience), I loved playing for him. He was a brilliant defensive coach, and I learned so much in my one year playing for him. It really set me up for the rest of my career. A few years ago, I asked Bruce Allen (George's son and a longtime executive in the NFL), if he knew what his father did to me during the draft. He said yes, and that I should stop complaining because it worked out pretty well for me.

[YoHoChecko]

I don’t think rodgers constantly intentionally fed Adams the ball and ignored others bc Adams was “easy mode”

I think it was two fold: 1) rodgers oddly needs to “trust” you to throw to you (which is weird, well he trusted adams)

And 2) adams and rodgers are just homies. And rodgers values playing with homies more than improving the entire team. Rodgers wanted adams to get his stats. He wanted to help him run his numbers up. Rodgers wanted to run his own numbers up! And the two of them teamed up to focus on doing just that.

It’s like the year rodgers decided he loved Tonyan and he forced him the ball non stop near the goalline.

I don’t think Love would have those same odd allegiances to his “buddy” Adams.

I'm not saying easy mode is about the QB's intent. It's just true. It is easier to complete passes to Davante Adams and to gain yards than it is to do so without him. Rodgers (and MLF) proved on multiple occasions that when Adams missed time, they could spread the ball around and have a fairly efficient and effective offense with the lesser weapons, because Rodgers was an expert-level QB and MLF is a good play designer.

But WHY would you do the more difficult thing if the easier thing is right there?

For a QB who is not yet expert level, having Adams as a tool can be helpful in the short term, but it may slow down or prevent the QB's ascension to expert level QB play. You don't get better by playing on easy mode. Anyone who's played any game can relate to that.

If Adams returned to Green Bay, Love's progression over the course of the past year would benefit himself, Adams, and the team. But I think if Adams were not to return (the obviously most likely outcome) the offense would continue to grow and develop together and maybe a Packer WR would fill that "dude" role that Adams grew into around years 3-5 of his career.

[lupedafiasco]

Damn. If only Brett Favre didn’t have Sterling Sharpe he might have been a Hall of Famer… oh wait a minute!

[Yoop]

I don’t think rodgers constantly intentionally fed Adams the ball and ignored others bc Adams was “easy mode”

I think it was two fold: 1) rodgers oddly needs to “trust” you to throw to you (which is weird, well he trusted adams)

And 2) adams and rodgers are just homies. And rodgers values playing with homies more than improving the entire team. Rodgers wanted adams to get his stats. He wanted to help him run his numbers up. Rodgers wanted to run his own numbers up! And the two of them teamed up to focus on doing just that.

It’s like the year rodgers decided he loved Tonyan and he forced him the ball non stop near the goalline.

I don’t think Love would have those same odd allegiances to his “buddy” Adams.

Tonyan, probably had the highest target to catch ratio of any receiver we ever had, who was targeted more then 50 times a season, Rodgers wasn't particular who he threw to, if ya got open on schedule he would throw you the ball, and that just happened to be Tonyan and Adams, he also threw plenty to MVS, who rarely hauled in 50%, but the kid got open and Rodgers flung it to him..

the best way to limit the tunnel vision of a QB is to increase receivers that can separate, get open on schedule.

[APB]

the best way to limit the tunnel vision of a QB is to increase receivers that can separate, get open on schedule.

Well hell.

If only Brian Gutekunst and MLF read this forum. The Packers offensive problems would've been solved a decade ago...

[Drj820]

kind of a funny thing to argue: Give your QB bad receivers to force him to play in God Mode to improve faster.

Lol, only in GB.

[YoHoChecko]

kind of a funny thing to argue: Give your QB bad receivers to force him to play in God Mode to improve faster.

Lol, only in GB.

We have an awesome receiving room. The argument is to have several good guys rather than to have One Dude.

If we had a bunch of scrubs, I’d have wanted Davante still. Having One Dude is way better than no one (see: Bryce Young). But the options weren’t scrubs vs scrubs and Davante.

This need to categorize everything into binary absolutes is just silliness.


Incidentally, I listen to a lot of national draft content rather than Packers-specific content. And it is WILD how many analysts across different networks and platforms cite Green Bay as the example for how to build your receiving room (take lots of swings with different skill sets) for teams in need of weapons. We come up all the time when discussing other teams’ drafts.

[Cdragon]

kind of a funny thing to argue: Give your QB bad receivers to force him to play in God Mode to improve faster.

Lol, only in GB.

Whose talking about bad receivers? It is easy to say now, 'Oh I knew Favre was a HOFer all along. But the gunslinger might not have survived long enough without a HOF caliber WR to make him successful. AR walks into more than a few, good to great receivers, and as the sniper spreads the ball around. In today's game you need the sniper more than the combat shotgunner. I think Love and the O has benefitted from a roster with four to five WRs who could be stars, two talented TEs and a star RB to spread the ball around to rather than the one HOF go to.

[Yoop]

the best way to limit the tunnel vision of a QB is to increase receivers that can separate, get open on schedule.

Well hell.

If only Brian Gutekunst and MLF read this forum. The Packers offensive problems would've been solved a decade ago...

they should have paid closer attention once Nelson was done, instead we got the 3 stooges, is that what you where fishing to hear?

3 bean poles with the athletic ability to trip over there own feet, he just used those rounds to draft athletic receivers and the results have been 180

more skill position talent and we see the QB actually reading progressions versus throwing to his first read

[Yoop]

kind of a funny thing to argue: Give your QB bad receivers to force him to play in God Mode to improve faster.

Lol, only in GB.

We have an awesome receiving room. The argument is to have several good guys rather than to have One Dude.

If we had a bunch of scrubs, I’d have wanted Davante still. Having One Dude is way better than no one (see: Bryce Young). But the options weren’t scrubs vs scrubs and Davante.

This need to categorize everything into binary absolutes is just silliness.


Incidentally, I listen to a lot of national draft content rather than Packers-specific content. And it is WILD how many analysts across different networks and platforms cite Green Bay as the example for how to build your receiving room (take lots of swings with different skill sets) for teams in need of weapons. We come up all the time when discussing other teams’ drafts.

any QB will develop tunnel vision if all he has to throw to is Adams and the rest of the tier 3 or 4 or 5 tier guys thats played across from Adams the last 5 years, thats just how that stuff works out when ya consider the pass rush, the receiver has to clear certain check points to get a 2nd look, if not he wont be tossed the ball, thats why Adams was targeted 150 times and the # 2 less then half that, so obviously a better # 2 was needed, and that went on since 2017 till last year.

I find it funny that we all new this, yet there is such a defense for that incompetence, and Guty lame excuses of well we tried to ......., If he can trade up a doz spots for savage he can surely figure out and find a trade partner to get a better receiver then MVS, I don't buy that talk for a minute Yoho

I don't know of anyone that approved of Gute's early draft of receivers, however he has done well in the last 2 drafts, the prior ones are filling unemployment lines

[Pckfn23]

[NCF]

Damn. If only Brett Favre didn’t have Sterling Sharpe he might have been a Hall of Famer… oh wait a minute!

That is one way to look at it. Of course, we could also look at the fact that many wanted Mark Brunell to get a shot in '93 and '94 and as soon as Sharpe's career was cut short Favre went on to win 3 straight MVP's.

I think the lesson here is that the issue is not Davante Adams or Sterling Sharpe. Of course you want those guys. When it comes to young QB's, though, there is something freeing about continuing to progress without them. There is a little bit of hero worship baked in here. The true evolution comes in developing the next Adams or Sharpe. Favre did it with Brooks, Freeman, and Driver. Rodgers did it with Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, and Adams. Love is getting his chance now to forge ahead with the next group. The beauty of it all is anyone of the top 4 has a legitimate chance of being that next guy.