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7) Policy needs to sit down with Gutenbumst and Lafleur and ask why every offseason one of our highest paid and in most cases, star player wants to leave Green Bay. Aaron Rodgers, Davante Adams, Zadarius Smith, Jaire Alexander, Devondre Campbell, and Preston Smith have all asked to leave. Whether these are related or separate incidents is really irrelevant to me at this point when it has become a trend on this team for veterans to really just force themselves off the team. I want to know why its happening and what they aregoing to do to stop it. On one hand its a terrible look every season in the cases of Adams, Rodgers, Z, and Jaire for some of the best players at their position to essentially say I will never play for you again.
On the business side I am looking right at Gutenbumst and asking him why is he wasting Packers money signing these players to big deals and letting them go incurring dead cap on the team and wasting the money paid up front. Its fraud, waste, and abuse at this point.
I do wonder if part of this stems from the refusal to give special treatment. This culture move started with TT. Before him, Brett Favre had a special parking space next to the coach and GM inside where every other player had to park outside.
Personally I think it needs to be a balance and I do have some concern. On the other side, the argument is that almost all of the players you just mentioned are headcases.
Rodgers - Conspiracy theorist on LCD
Campbell - Just quit on his team
Z Smith - Hasn't consistently landed on a team ever since leaving
Jaire - Seems like an asshole
Preston Smith - was no longer a good fit in the defense
D Adams - Wanted more money and to play for his favorite team growing up
So when you analyze all of those, it's really tough to pinpoint a glaring culture issue in Green Bay.
Just like the last 8 games of 2023 shouldn't have led to future hall of fame talk, this season shouldn't lead to Love isn't the guy talk.
Yes. We don't need Love to be Rodgers/Favre reincarnated. He is not good enough to carry a team on his back like those fellas but with a good roster around him we can win. We will now see if indeed Gute can deliver and if MLF can get this team to play better.
Just like the last 8 games of 2023 shouldn't have led to future hall of fame talk, this season shouldn't lead to Love isn't the guy talk.
Yes. We don't need Love to be Rodgers/Favre reincarnated. He is not good enough to carry a team on his back like those fellas but with a good roster around him we can win. We will now see if indeed Gute can deliver and if MLF can get this team to play better.
He could be that good. The last 8 games of 2023 were that good. Is that the exception? Is this year the rule? I don't know yet.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Just like the last 8 games of 2023 shouldn't have led to future hall of fame talk, this season shouldn't lead to Love isn't the guy talk.
Yes. We don't need Love to be Rodgers/Favre reincarnated. He is not good enough to carry a team on his back like those fellas but with a good roster around him we can win. We will now see if indeed Gute can deliver and if MLF can get this team to play better.
He could be that good. The last 8 games of 2023 were that good. Is that the exception? Is this year the rule? I don't know yet.
Definitely he can be as good. He got to work on things. It is a constant development. Watch film till your eyes bleed. Footwork and getting a better touch to drop balls in, rather than some of the flat trajectories we saw last game. He may never be MVP or PB but he can take over games when we need it.
Another change to make imo is to stop trading away veteran leaders at the trade deadline if the team is contending. Even if Rasul or Preston were reduced to spot duty due to declining skills, it’s more of a loss to the whole team and culture to ditch leaders who have more skin in the game. Being the youngest team every year doesn’t just mean you have a lot of potential, it also means there is very little experience and likely professionalism amongst the players.
You may be on to something. Most of the top teams have a few veterans. These experienced players can be good mentors for all these young players. These guys can be leaders too. On Sunday I saw X trying to rally the defensive troops. I have a hard time envisioning Love being that kind of leader but we don't know how he interacts when the cameras are gone.
Another change to make imo is to stop trading away veteran leaders at the trade deadline if the team is contending. Even if Rasul or Preston were reduced to spot duty due to declining skills, it’s more of a loss to the whole team and culture to ditch leaders who have more skin in the game. Being the youngest team every year doesn’t just mean you have a lot of potential, it also means there is very little experience and likely professionalism amongst the players.
You may be on to something. Most of the top teams have a few veterans. These experienced players can be good mentors for all these young players. These guys can be leaders too. On Sunday I saw X trying to rally the defensive troops. I have a hard time envisioning Love being that kind of leader but we don't know how he interacts when the cameras are gone.
I don't think he is onto anything. The two veteran trades have been anamolies. Sul happened. Maybe shoudlnt' have happened but he also didn't play well this year. Who knows if we get Evan Williams if we didn't get that extra draft selection.
Preston Smith requested a trade. He wasn't a fit for our scheme and frankly his backups thrived. You don't get Brenton Cox's ascension if Smith was still here. There are certain things to bark at. Trading away certain veterans has not been an issue that has lost us games or seasons.
7) Policy needs to sit down with Gutenbumst and Lafleur and ask why every offseason one of our highest paid and in most cases, star player wants to leave Green Bay. Aaron Rodgers, Davante Adams, Zadarius Smith, Jaire Alexander, Devondre Campbell, and Preston Smith have all asked to leave. Whether these are related or separate incidents is really irrelevant to me at this point when it has become a trend on this team for veterans to really just force themselves off the team. I want to know why its happening and what they aregoing to do to stop it. On one hand its a terrible look every season in the cases of Adams, Rodgers, Z, and Jaire for some of the best players at their position to essentially say I will never play for you again.
On the business side I am looking right at Gutenbumst and asking him why is he wasting Packers money signing these players to big deals and letting them go incurring dead cap on the team and wasting the money paid up front. Its fraud, waste, and abuse at this point.
were not the only team in the NFL were players for many reasons want a change of scenery, typically as with ours, they want something the team isn't giving them, either money, more snaps, or a personality clash with coaches,don't like the scheme, every player you just mentioned minus P. Smith and Adams (Alexander, who knows with him???) became a me first head case player, I admit possibly because of everything I mentioned.
7) Policy needs to sit down with Gutenbumst and Lafleur and ask why every offseason one of our highest paid and in most cases, star player wants to leave Green Bay. Aaron Rodgers, Davante Adams, Zadarius Smith, Jaire Alexander, Devondre Campbell, and Preston Smith have all asked to leave. Whether these are related or separate incidents is really irrelevant to me at this point when it has become a trend on this team for veterans to really just force themselves off the team. I want to know why its happening and what they aregoing to do to stop it. On one hand its a terrible look every season in the cases of Adams, Rodgers, Z, and Jaire for some of the best players at their position to essentially say I will never play for you again.
On the business side I am looking right at Gutenbumst and asking him why is he wasting Packers money signing these players to big deals and letting them go incurring dead cap on the team and wasting the money paid up front. Its fraud, waste, and abuse at this point.
I do wonder if part of this stems from the refusal to give special treatment. This culture move started with TT. Before him, Brett Favre had a special parking space next to the coach and GM inside where every other player had to park outside.
Personally I think it needs to be a balance and I do have some concern. On the other side, the argument is that almost all of the players you just mentioned are headcases.
Rodgers - Conspiracy theorist on LCD
Campbell - Just quit on his team
Z Smith - Hasn't consistently landed on a team ever since leaving
Jaire - Seems like an asshole
Preston Smith - was no longer a good fit in the defense
D Adams - Wanted more money and to play for his favorite team growing up
So when you analyze all of those, it's really tough to pinpoint a glaring culture issue in Green Bay.
If memory serves I believe we offered Adams more money than the Raiders did. I suspect he wanted to be closer to family and play with his collegiate QB. After Carr left LV Adams left too.
Another change to make imo is to stop trading away veteran leaders at the trade deadline if the team is contending. Even if Rasul or Preston were reduced to spot duty due to declining skills, it’s more of a loss to the whole team and culture to ditch leaders who have more skin in the game. Being the youngest team every year doesn’t just mean you have a lot of potential, it also means there is very little experience and likely professionalism amongst the players.
You may be on to something. Most of the top teams have a few veterans. These experienced players can be good mentors for all these young players. These guys can be leaders too. On Sunday I saw X trying to rally the defensive troops. I have a hard time envisioning Love being that kind of leader but we don't know how he interacts when the cameras are gone.
I don't think he is onto anything. The two veteran trades have been anamolies. Sul happened. Maybe shoudlnt' have happened but he also didn't play well this year. Who knows if we get Evan Williams if we didn't get that extra draft selection.
Preston Smith requested a trade. He wasn't a fit for our scheme and frankly his backups thrived. You don't get Brenton Cox's ascension if Smith was still here. There are certain things to bark at. Trading away certain veterans has not been an issue that has lost us games or seasons.
I was just addressing his notion of having veteran leadership not any player in particular. I mentioned X as an example. When we won our last 2 Super Bowls we had leaders like Reggie and Woodson.
The year BEFORE his final year in GB, he was trying to negotiate a new deal. He wanted to be the highest paid WR (and he deserved to be, in general terms).
At The Time, D.Hop's contract in Arizona was an outlier in new money/new years because they gave him an extension with 2 years (maybe even 3) left on his deal. His new money/new years was something like $27M or $29M a year and the next highest in the league was around $24M/year. The Packers gave Adams an offer that was better than all the other contracts in the league over the life of the deal, but still had less new money/new years than Hopkins due to the structure of Hopkins' deal and the way they announced it.
Adams decided before that season that the inability to get what he wanted meant he would leave after the season. After the Packers tagged him, they DID offer more than the Raiders, allegedly. But by then the lack of that offer the prior year had made up his mind. Yes, family and Carr were big factors, but they were only factors once he decided to leave.
I love Adams, but I do think the demand to match Hopkins' numbers despite the different context of the deals was unreasonable. Since, the WR market has exploded even higher, and the case can be made that we would have been better off giving him what he wanted that offseason. But I understood both negotiating points at the time.
We have money to likely sign a larger deal and a 2 - 3 smaller deals. Also have the money to extend Zach Tom. Don't want to get overboard because we will need dollars to rollforward as the 2022 - 2024 Draft players start needing extensions.
Players/Positions I could see going after:
Resign
1. Brandon McManus - I think you need to get this guy back.
2. TJ Slaton but only at a cheap rate. I want to get away from "Run Only" "Pass Only" players.
Positions to Pursue in FA
1. Defensive Linemen - I would like an interior guy. If there is anyone that can stop the run and be a pass rush threat I would go hard after him. Could set it up where this player is "the guy" and we split from Clark after 2025.
2. Cornerback - slim pickings here. We need another CB whether it's outisde or slot. Dual threat is best. Also need to address in draft
3. Wide Reciever - My guess is there will be options here. Don't overspend. I don't think WR is a position we want to allocate a lot of dollars but we do need improvement here and I think a veteran presence would be beneficial.
The year BEFORE his final year in GB, he was trying to negotiate a new deal. He wanted to be the highest paid WR (and he deserved to be, in general terms).
At The Time, D.Hop's contract in Arizona was an outlier in new money/new years because they gave him an extension with 2 years (maybe even 3) left on his deal. His new money/new years was something like $27M or $29M a year and the next highest in the league was around $24M/year. The Packers gave Adams an offer that was better than all the other contracts in the league over the life of the deal, but still had less new money/new years than Hopkins due to the structure of Hopkins' deal and the way they announced it.
Adams decided before that season that the inability to get what he wanted meant he would leave after the season. After the Packers tagged him, they DID offer more than the Raiders, allegedly. But by then the lack of that offer the prior year had made up his mind. Yes, family and Carr were big factors, but they were only factors once he decided to leave.
I love Adams, but I do think the demand to match Hopkins' numbers despite the different context of the deals was unreasonable. Since, the WR market has exploded even higher, and the case can be made that we would have been better off giving him what he wanted that offseason. But I understood both negotiating points at the time.
Yup. And frankly now Adams got his money. He got his endorsements but he's losing games. He may have a different thought process going into this new negotiation. I don't think a reunion is dead. I think there is a decent chance both sides could see a world for reunion.
7) Policy needs to sit down with Gutenbumst and Lafleur and ask why every offseason one of our highest paid and in most cases, star player wants to leave Green Bay. Aaron Rodgers, Davante Adams, Zadarius Smith, Jaire Alexander, Devondre Campbell, and Preston Smith have all asked to leave. Whether these are related or separate incidents is really irrelevant to me at this point when it has become a trend on this team for veterans to really just force themselves off the team. I want to know why its happening and what they aregoing to do to stop it. On one hand its a terrible look every season in the cases of Adams, Rodgers, Z, and Jaire for some of the best players at their position to essentially say I will never play for you again.
On the business side I am looking right at Gutenbumst and asking him why is he wasting Packers money signing these players to big deals and letting them go incurring dead cap on the team and wasting the money paid up front. Its fraud, waste, and abuse at this point.
were not the only team in the NFL were players for many reasons want a change of scenery, typically as with ours, they want something the team isn't giving them, either money, more snaps, or a personality clash with coaches,don't like the scheme, every player you just mentioned minus P. Smith and Adams (Alexander, who knows with him???) became a me first head case player, I admit possibly because of everything I mentioned.
Preston? Really? I never had that impression.
with Preston he liked the 3-4 versus the 4-3, liked playing up in space versus in 3 point square up on the tackle, and also didn't like rotating in and out with LVN, basically he wanted to be traded to a 34 defensive team, at least that's how I remember that
The year BEFORE his final year in GB, he was trying to negotiate a new deal. He wanted to be the highest paid WR (and he deserved to be, in general terms).
At The Time, D.Hop's contract in Arizona was an outlier in new money/new years because they gave him an extension with 2 years (maybe even 3) left on his deal. His new money/new years was something like $27M or $29M a year and the next highest in the league was around $24M/year. The Packers gave Adams an offer that was better than all the other contracts in the league over the life of the deal, but still had less new money/new years than Hopkins due to the structure of Hopkins' deal and the way they announced it.
Adams decided before that season that the inability to get what he wanted meant he would leave after the season. After the Packers tagged him, they DID offer more than the Raiders, allegedly. But by then the lack of that offer the prior year had made up his mind. Yes, family and Carr were big factors, but they were only factors once he decided to leave.
I love Adams, but I do think the demand to match Hopkins' numbers despite the different context of the deals was unreasonable. Since, the WR market has exploded even higher, and the case can be made that we would have been better off giving him what he wanted that offseason. But I understood both negotiating points at the time.
Yup. And frankly now Adams got his money. He got his endorsements but he's losing games. He may have a different thought process going into this new negotiation. I don't think a reunion is dead. I think there is a decent chance both sides could see a world for reunion.
well I think that settles this nicely, now someone needs to convince Gutibumst, or how does Lupe spell it? just bring that dog back home
were not the only team in the NFL were players for many reasons want a change of scenery, typically as with ours, they want something the team isn't giving them, either money, more snaps, or a personality clash with coaches,don't like the scheme, every player you just mentioned minus P. Smith and Adams (Alexander, who knows with him???) became a me first head case player, I admit possibly because of everything I mentioned.
Preston? Really? I never had that impression.
with Preston he liked the 3-4 versus the 4-3, liked playing up in space versus in 3 point square up on the tackle, and also didn't like rotating in and out with LVN, basically he wanted to be traded to a 34 defensive team, at least that's how I remember that
I never got the impression he didn't care for GB but knew our new defensive scheme didn't fit his skill set.
You may be on to something. Most of the top teams have a few veterans. These experienced players can be good mentors for all these young players. These guys can be leaders too. On Sunday I saw X trying to rally the defensive troops. I have a hard time envisioning Love being that kind of leader but we don't know how he interacts when the cameras are gone.
I don't think he is onto anything. The two veteran trades have been anamolies. Sul happened. Maybe shoudlnt' have happened but he also didn't play well this year. Who knows if we get Evan Williams if we didn't get that extra draft selection.
Preston Smith requested a trade. He wasn't a fit for our scheme and frankly his backups thrived. You don't get Brenton Cox's ascension if Smith was still here. There are certain things to bark at. Trading away certain veterans has not been an issue that has lost us games or seasons.
I was just addressing his notion of having veteran leadership not any player in particular. I mentioned X as an example. When we won our last 2 Super Bowls we had leaders like Reggie and Woodson.
Correct I was referring to veteran presence in general. Ideally they are also star players. Go Pack Go is advising signing veterans in 2025, which I’m all for. I also wasn’t speaking to the loss of talent in terms of Rasul or Preston. Clearly Preston was declining. That doesn’t mean you can’t keep him on the team and rotate Cox in more and have him help Cox get better. I just think that leadership is worth more than a 7th round pick.
The year BEFORE his final year in GB, he was trying to negotiate a new deal. He wanted to be the highest paid WR (and he deserved to be, in general terms).
At The Time, D.Hop's contract in Arizona was an outlier in new money/new years because they gave him an extension with 2 years (maybe even 3) left on his deal. His new money/new years was something like $27M or $29M a year and the next highest in the league was around $24M/year. The Packers gave Adams an offer that was better than all the other contracts in the league over the life of the deal, but still had less new money/new years than Hopkins due to the structure of Hopkins' deal and the way they announced it.
Adams decided before that season that the inability to get what he wanted meant he would leave after the season. After the Packers tagged him, they DID offer more than the Raiders, allegedly. But by then the lack of that offer the prior year had made up his mind. Yes, family and Carr were big factors, but they were only factors once he decided to leave.
I love Adams, but I do think the demand to match Hopkins' numbers despite the different context of the deals was unreasonable. Since, the WR market has exploded even higher, and the case can be made that we would have been better off giving him what he wanted that offseason. But I understood both negotiating points at the time.
Yup. And frankly now Adams got his money. He got his endorsements but he's losing games. He may have a different thought process going into this new negotiation. I don't think a reunion is dead. I think there is a decent chance both sides could see a world for reunion.
Same.
I don’t necessarily think it’s likely but I wouldn’t categorize the that door as closed, either.
And to be honest, I think Davante’s return would provide a stabilizing and nurturing presence to the WR room. He’s the bonafide WR1 and we’ve got 2-3 WR2/3 to develop.
If one of the current WR is ever to ascend to WR1 status, they damn sure didn’t show it in 2024. Let Adams take them under his wing while he chases his HOF glory and let them learn from the master what it takes. If one of them has what it takes, it’ll arise from them.
I don't think he is onto anything. The two veteran trades have been anamolies. Sul happened. Maybe shoudlnt' have happened but he also didn't play well this year. Who knows if we get Evan Williams if we didn't get that extra draft selection.
Preston Smith requested a trade. He wasn't a fit for our scheme and frankly his backups thrived. You don't get Brenton Cox's ascension if Smith was still here. There are certain things to bark at. Trading away certain veterans has not been an issue that has lost us games or seasons.
I was just addressing his notion of having veteran leadership not any player in particular. I mentioned X as an example. When we won our last 2 Super Bowls we had leaders like Reggie and Woodson.
Correct I was referring to veteran presence in general. Ideally they are also star players. Go Pack Go is advising signing veterans in 2025, which I’m all for. I also wasn’t speaking to the loss of talent in terms of Rasul or Preston. Clearly Preston was declining. That doesn’t mean you can’t keep him on the team and rotate Cox in more and have him help Cox get better. I just think that leadership is worth more than a 7th round pick.
I think the idea of veteran presense helps. But when we get specific, you can't deny that our pass rush got better after Smith left. Though a 7th round pick is small compensation, the immediate net result to GB on the field was a positive. So I just can't get on board with saying trading away players is a bad thing. High level it sounds good....specific situation it does not. We also saved half a season in Preston Smith Compensation.
To be clear I think the Preston trade was also a good trade. If we look at the total situation he should have neverbeen resigned in the first place. I was just adding it to the list because it is just one more veteran player on the team that has demanded to be traded. It could be for one reason or another but it does keep happening and the team should be looking into if there is a deeper reason why. Additionally, when they continuosly go into season after season with over $20M in dead cap.
In 2023 the Packers were 3rd highest in dead cap. In 2024 we were 6th highest. We are on track to be 9th this season and we havent even added Alexander to that yet (it would jump into the top 5). At some point this needs to be identified as a trend and it needs to stop. It is hindering the team.
I listened to a portion of Mark Tauscher's podcast this morning. One of the callers made a really good point about this Packer squad. He indicated that the roster has a lot of really "good" players. But the one thing that they lack is enough "elite" talent. Considering Jacobs and X and perhaps Coop, there is more elite talent needed, he said.
With that in mind, where do the Packers need more elite talent to take the next step?
1. WR.
2. LB.
3. OLine.
4. DLine.
At WR, say what you will, but Tae Adams will be available. Even if only for one or two seasons, he provides sure hands, excellent route running, savvy against zones, and excellent health. He also provides maturity that many WRs just don't have. Is there a younger alternative? Higgins?
At DLine, does Jacobs have enough pull (especially after this great season he had) to entice Guty to go and get Crosby? Have we not had a stud like that since Reggie White? I'd break my piggy bank to bring him. Maybe somebody else is available, but no names come to mind.
At LB, have we seen the ceiling for most of our guys? Even if Cooper and Walker both become elite, don't we need more guys? Rotation is more important than ever.
At OLine, Walker and Tom get a lot of praise heaped upon them. So does Jenkins. But look at what happened against Philly. The Tackles couldn't make up for the losses at Guard. And perhaps Tom or Jenkins will move to Center in 2025 anyhow. Yes, we must draft another lineman with a top pick. And depth!
I'm wanting to talk more about the "problem" of having a good/not great team. But that is for another time.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
just bring that dog back home
