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Lamb had a few more drops than I expected. He doesn't separate vertically but has an elite catch radius to make downfield plays anyway. His routes left some good corners looking silly sometimes--that's how he separated, more than speed. He does some Adamsesque things with his cuts/breaks, what-have-you. He bullies CBs when blocking sometimes. Puts the effort into it and shows his upper body strength. Upon consideration, I'll keep Jeudy as my #1, but I could see it going either way.
Agree with all that you wrote, and I'd add that Lamb's versatility is a definite plus, can be moved around. Understands and feels angles and can create serious YAC. First team I watched with a leaky Oline, and that probably lessened Lamb's impact.
Ruggs' natural talent is unreal. His ability to decelerate, as much as accelerate, is devastating--the back soulders or late-breaking in-routes or comeback routes--just all the space in the world. His blocking is actually excellent, despite his size. He does a notable job at finding his man and at least walling off.
Off the line, if you play press and miss, you're stacked immediately. Like, immediately. However, the line of scrimmage is my biggest concern. But a TON of wasted movement and steps at the line. It almost looks like he's faking a block on most routes (I know there's a lot of RPO, but not just that). And if a player gets his hands on him, the separation rarely comes. His choppy-step release makes it hard for timing routes like slants to work out, while Jeudy and D. Smith make them look easy in the same scheme.
He needs a coach or a vet player to spend ALL his time working on his release and his hand-fighting. Like just drill that, and he'll be amazing. The guy ended up in places where you couldn't believe it, having seen him leave the screen in one place and then enter it on the other side of the field catching a deep crosser. And when he gets a glimmer of space, he flies through it. He's not slippery or creative after the catch, so it feels like there are missed YAC opportunities, but he'll get you more than your share on speed alone. I'm very impressed with this guy; just REALLY need to work on his get-off
Ruggs' natural talent is unreal. His ability to decelerate, as much as accelerate, is devastating--the back soulders or late-breaking in-routes or comeback routes--just all the space in the world. His blocking is actually excellent, despite his size. He does a notable job at finding his man and at least walling off.
Off the line, if you play press and miss, you're stacked immediately. Like, immediately. However, the line of scrimmage is my biggest concern. But a TON of wasted movement and steps at the line. It almost looks like he's faking a block on most routes (I know there's a lot of RPO, but not just that). And if a player gets his hands on him, the separation rarely comes. His choppy-step release makes it hard for timing routes like slants to work out, while Jeudy and D. Smith make them look easy in the same scheme.
He needs a coach or a vet player to spend ALL his time working on his release and his hand-fighting. Like just drill that, and he'll be amazing. The guy ended up in places where you couldn't believe it, having seen him leave the screen in one place and then enter it on the other side of the field catching a deep crosser. And when he gets a glimmer of space, he flies through it. He's not slippery or creative after the catch, so it feels like there are missed YAC opportunities, but he'll get you more than your share on speed alone. I'm very impressed with this guy; just REALLY need to work on his get-off
Yeah, call me crazy, but I'd kinda like him more for our O than Jeudy or Lamb... Such an amount of unselfish work. A ton of key blocks, and they used his speed as a threat to scheme open others.
Bama had such an embarrassment of riches of weapons, Ruggs wasn't the first read on that many plays. He was wide open a number of crossers where the QBs threw to others. AR would love that, along with Ruggs' ankle-breaking backshoulders. Could turn the corner on those WR sweeps.
I agree he needs to be coached way better get off, crisper slants and how to beat the press.
Yeah, call me crazy, but I'd kinda like him more for our O than Jeudy or Lamb... Such an amount of unselfish work. A ton of key blocks, and they used his speed as a threat to scheme open others.
Oh yeah. Let's just say if Ruggs were available at, say, 20, I wouldn't hate a trade up to get him. If Lamb or Jeudy were, I'd be upset that we used the resources to move up. That's not to say who's better or worse so much as who is exactly what we need and who has less replaceable traits.
Let's see how Jalen Reagor compares with Ruggs, shall we?
Woof, what a horrendous offense to watch. The OLine and the QB were so bad it made it really hard to tell what Reagor is and can do.
He isn't a good blocker--lots of whiffs trying to find his guy and lots of guys shedding him the second they need to.
He's fast but nothing like Ruggs. He has a vicious stutter step for the stutter-and-go or breaking routes when he uses that. His high-pointing is excellent, but also it seems like he has to turn toward the ball to make them rather than running underneath it? I dunno.
Honestly, I can't tell how much I like him. He has tools. I didn't notice as many drops as I expected (and the INT off his hands was a bad throw by the QB leading him into a brutal hit). One thing I will say is that that other WR Barber stood out a ton more in the Texas and WVU tapes. The OkSt game was sick, though. He's still on my list if we trade back into the 40-50 range.
Let's see how Jalen Reagor compares with Ruggs, shall we?
Woof, what a horrendous offense to watch. The OLine and the QB were so bad it made it really hard to tell what Reagor is and can do.
He isn't a good blocker--lots of whiffs trying to find his guy and lots of guys shedding him the second they need to.
He's fast but nothing like Ruggs. He has a vicious stutter step for the stutter-and-go or breaking routes when he uses that. His high-pointing is excellent, but also it seems like he has to turn toward the ball to make them rather than running underneath it? I dunno.
Honestly, I can't tell how much I like him. He has tools. I didn't notice as many drops as I expected (and the INT off his hands was a bad throw by the QB leading him into a brutal hit). One thing I will say is that that other WR Barber stood out a ton more in the Texas and WVU tapes. The OkSt game was sick, though. He's still on my list if we trade back into the 40-50 range.
I'd like Reagor for those WR screens we throw so much. Punt return background shows there, tho he didn't break big ones on these tapes.
2nd rounder who can produce some straight away, but has a lot to learn. He'd do well to watch all the tape of Greg Jennings and Donald Driver... Maybe could develop same kinda route running over time? Sometimes totally clueless at blocking.
I'm a little intrigued by like Van Jefferson (especially since he couldn't work out) and KJ Hill. But also, maybe after one or two of these, check out some LBs? This has been super fun, thanks for this
I'm a little intrigued by like Van Jefferson (especially since he couldn't work out) and KJ Hill. But also, maybe after one or two of these, check out some LBs? This has been super fun, thanks for this
Ayiuk it is!
We won't get very deep into the prospect pool before the draft is upon us, but still good fun.
Tough for me to distinguish between Ayiuk and Reagor. It's interesting how Ayiuk is SUPER good at some things but really struggles at things that should be similar; like he seems to have a great inside release but can't find any space on outside releases. He seems to be much better on stutter-and-go or out/in breaking routes, but doesn't sell/win on comebacks. He seems like he should/does have a lot of versatility, but he lines up almost every snap as the outside receiver to the left.
He doesn't stack vertically--that makes his 40-time make a bit more sense. I expected it to be faster watching highlights alone, but these cutups clarified a little. It's good to remember that Ayiuk was a JuCo transfer who was a raw role player in 2018 and emerged for the first time in 2019; that might mean he is learning quickly and will fill the gaps, but there's also a lot of data that Senior WRs fare significantly worse in the NFL than early-entries (with the predominant reason seeming to be those who have NFL talent are encouraged to leave early).
Having looked through all the top guys, now, really... if I were drafting for the Packers, tomorrow, I'd rank the WRs as such:
1. Ruggs - he just has that speed asset that no one else in this draft can replicate
2. Jeudy
3. Lamb
4. Jefferson
5. Ayiuk
6. Reagor
7. Mims
8. Shenault
and those would be my top 8; ahead of Pittman and Higgins, again for the Packers. I'd have a 30-50ish range grade on 5 through 8 and a 10th-20th pick grade on 1 through 4. Ideally, guys like Pittman and Higgins will be sought after pushing down the guys I like a little better.
Those 10 are really my only solid top-62 candidates, as I see value for DPJ and Hamler and Claypool more in the 3rd round, probably along with Antonio Gandy-Golden. Sprinkled in with some of Van Jefferson, Collin Johnson, KJ Hill, and Brian Edwards, all of whom I see in the late 3rd/early 4th range. I'm sure I've forgotten someone in there. That's also where I see the WR/RB hybrids like Gibson and Bowden (though Bowden may fall due to character concerns).
Sorry fellas. Late to the party. Great work Sal and Yoho. Good info and insight.
Mine: i was always higher on Rugg then Juedy. Lupe called me an drunkard I believe. Well he isnt all wrong
One thing about ruggs outside the speed and crazy athlete stuff is when the ball is in his hands hes not going down with any contact. Hes like a running back. Cbs will struggle putting him to the ground. Guy that comes to mind is steve Smith. I remember going to a game and Smith was reckless for an extra yard and falling forward. By the 2nd half those 2 extra yards were 8. Thats going to be ruggs.
In the packer O that gives a a guy with hill speed over the top or a guy that takes a screen runs through an arm tackle and scores.
Lamb had a few more drops than I expected. He doesn't separate vertically but has an elite catch radius to make downfield plays anyway. His routes left some good corners looking silly sometimes--that's how he separated, more than speed. He does some Adamsesque things with his cuts/breaks, what-have-you. He bullies CBs when blocking sometimes. Puts the effort into it and shows his upper body strength. Upon consideration, I'll keep Jeudy as my #1, but I could see it going either way.
Drops doesn't always paint the best picture, kind of almost like sacks. A lot of them can be judgement call (both ways) on bad throws or breakups vs just an actual bad drop.
Anytime you are dealing with numbers like 2-7 on an entire season, sometimes they can be a bit fluky.
OK, I wanna move over to ILBs, but here's one tape each from a few WRs with the link to more tape. I tried to pick the tape vs the best team per NCAAF rankings.
NFL.com had 12 guys with grade "Will be starter within first two seasons" or better. That's crazy. These aren't even all the options that could go before end of R2.
people need to watch Van Jefferson against LSU, he gives a route running clinic, so smooth out of his breaks, he beats the DB nearly every time, theres even a video high lighting his route running ability, they compare him to Jeudy as the 2 best route runners in this class.
every receiver you've brought Sal imo would really help our team, we should take two of em
Sal you and I are so on the same page lately... I went and watched almost all of these exact videos yesterday afternoon after I had made my rankings.
I'm only growing higher on Pittman, even though he's just not the kind of guy I think we need. If we stay with "our type" I'd be stoked to get him.
Jefferson, to me, is just so "safe: but I'm not sure that his ceiling is what we want it to be. I could be wrong on that, but he slipped a bit in my eyes watching this.
Van Jefferson and KJ Hill are both very similar in that their routes are exquisite but they don't have a second gear. Both could be nice acquisitions if they are there in the late 3rd or 4th, but I'd be pretty disappointed if one of them is the only WR we add.
I'll check Hamler, Claypool and Edwards in a bit today.
This has genuinely been some of my favorite pre-draft forum stuff. Thanks for diligently organizing/posting/keeping up with it.
I agree, in all the years we've done this pre draft, post combine player evals this year has been the most informative, maybe it's because we all want the team to use a high pick on a receiver, I suppose that lends a need for more in depth study, whatever, I've enjoyed watching all the player high lights, I wish I could explain what I see as well as others here, thanks to all the contributors and all the work you've done Sal bringing them to our attention.
I also like van Jefferson late day 2 early day 3. Smooth route runner that just gets open. Nothing flashy just open. His knock is hes older and might not grow much more but i think he could be an awesome wr3 that makes every team Better. Good thoughts yoop!!
J jefferson to me is a better greg Jennings. Thats high praise but just a perfect fit for AR. Before he flew up the boards every week he showed out and proved he can get it done against anyone. I feel others think the same and hes gone by 20.
Edwards is ok. At times he wows and then he seems glued to coverage. Plus side he has james jones like game that can find a way...(jones early drops were frustrating) dude on locked on packers loves him..... Me not half as much but in the 4th or later whatev.
Claypool if they want to reincarnate jimmy g then add so.e weight and try. Idk. I need to watch more
I also like van Jefferson late day 2 early day 3. Smooth route runner that just gets open. Nothing flashy just open. His knock is hes older and might not grow much more but i think he could be an awesome wr3 that makes every team Better. Good thoughts yoop!!
J jefferson to me is a better greg Jennings. Thats high praise but just a perfect fit for AR. Before he flew up the boards every week he showed out and proved he can get it done against anyone. I feel others think the same and hes gone by 20.
Edwards is ok. At times he wows and then he seems glued to coverage. Plus side he has james jones like game that can find a way...(jones early drops were frustrating) dude on locked on packers loves him..... Me not half as much but in the 4th or later whatev.
Claypool if they want to reincarnate jimmy g then add so.e weight and try. Idk. I need to watch more
I'm kinda off the Claypool and Pittman -type half-TEs. They will get zero separation in the NFL, and AR won't throw if you don't get separation. In the tall WR department we already have Funchess, MVS, EQ, Kumerow and Lazard...
Hamler is a quick little bug, but more quick than fast. Could be a mismatch vs certain bigger DBs? We haven't had a WR as small as him for ages, dunno if LaFleur wants those. Not the most natural hands, may drop some.
J Jefferson I certainly liked, but didn't blow my mind, and Van Jefferson and Edwards were both OK. I doubt the latter two have a ceiling as high as the WRs ranked above them, but both should be solid contributors very early.
