From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
4-FA - 10 1000 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
1-3 - 35 1000 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
4-FA - 16 750 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
1-3 - 62 750 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
I wouldn't say that is minuscule at all. Obviously a first to third rounder is going to have a better shot at being a productive runner in year 1. Some of that has to do with talent, some with opportunity. Productive rookie rushers can definitely be had after round 3.
I get what you're saying, but I hate "planning" on that when such a large hole is there. It's kind of like saying, "look at the 49ers and Seahawks. They got Warner and Wagner in Round 3 and Round 5. You don't need to invest in ILB early."
I mean yeah that's true. But there are a bunch of losers there too. Way more losers than not.
My problem with losing Jones is you need to replace a dynamic and slashing runner but also a great pass blocker, route runner and hands catcher. I mean these types are RARE. I don't think it makes sense for the Packers to spend big money on more then 1 WR. But I think it does make sense to spend big $ on 1 WR and 1 RB who also acts like a WR.
Drafting a RB means it takes 2 years to develop into a route runner and 2 years to be able to block for the QB. We just don't have that time. I'm not very interested in that. I really want Aaron Jones back.
Don't forget, we just invested a 2nd round pick in AJ Dillon. I don't think there is a large hole or such a large one that a late round RB can not fill it.
I would like Aaron Jones back too, but I don't think it will happen for the money he will want.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
For sure. They are very different backs as Jones is more of that receiver threat as well which is why I think he would be a great fit in the offense with Dillon.
But yes. The price very well may be out of our reach.
4-FA - 10 1000 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
1-3 - 35 1000 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
4-FA - 16 750 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
1-3 - 62 750 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
I wouldn't say that is minuscule at all. Obviously a first to third rounder is going to have a better shot at being a productive runner in year 1. Some of that has to do with talent, some with opportunity. Productive rookie rushers can definitely be had after round 3.
I get what you're saying, but I hate "planning" on that when such a large hole is there. It's kind of like saying, "look at the 49ers and Seahawks. They got Warner and Wagner in Round 3 and Round 5. You don't need to invest in ILB early."
I mean yeah that's true. But there are a bunch of losers there too. Way more losers than not.
My problem with losing Jones is you need to replace a dynamic and slashing runner but also a great pass blocker, route runner and hands catcher. I mean these types are RARE. I don't think it makes sense for the Packers to spend big money on more then 1 WR. But I think it does make sense to spend big $ on 1 WR and 1 RB who also acts like a WR.
Drafting a RB means it takes 2 years to develop into a route runner and 2 years to be able to block for the QB. We just don't have that time. I'm not very interested in that. I really want Aaron Jones back.
wow, since 1990 the draft has produced about a 100 4th round to UFA 1000 yrd RB's, out of what a couple thousand RB's? not good odds at all, prior to injury Jones was on pace for 2000 yrds of offense, just like last year.
Jones is also a perfect fit for Lafluers run schemes, coupled with the mis direction motion guy like Ervin and a pulling TE (faster then Lewis) and Jones would be a big loss, thats why I think the coaches will pull for Gute to resign Jones.
I get what you're saying, but I hate "planning" on that when such a large hole is there. It's kind of like saying, "look at the 49ers and Seahawks. They got Warner and Wagner in Round 3 and Round 5. You don't need to invest in ILB early."
I mean yeah that's true. But there are a bunch of losers there too. Way more losers than not.
My problem with losing Jones is you need to replace a dynamic and slashing runner but also a great pass blocker, route runner and hands catcher. I mean these types are RARE. I don't think it makes sense for the Packers to spend big money on more then 1 WR. But I think it does make sense to spend big $ on 1 WR and 1 RB who also acts like a WR.
Drafting a RB means it takes 2 years to develop into a route runner and 2 years to be able to block for the QB. We just don't have that time. I'm not very interested in that. I really want Aaron Jones back.
This is why I really wanted a potential Jones replacement taken this past year late. Even though to many it would be overkill with the Dillon pick early, the dynamic rushing/receiving back hole was still there, albeit a future hole.
As it is, I'd really like to keep Jones even though I usually don't pay RBs for, like others have suggested, a short-term extension. Just to smooth over the window on offense and not deal with too much turnover there.
But if we don't, and we instead keep, say, Ervin and J. Williams for a combined third of the price of Jones and then draft a more dynamic rusher on day 3 in the draft to mix in as we go, we'd have the pass protection and receiving ability of Williams, the brute bullrush of Dillon and the diverse sprinkles of Ervin and the rookie--wouldn't be the end of the world.
It's not even a question for me. Another thing I look to is upgrading the Ervin position to a Deebo-type. Ervin has the wheels, but no one is afraid of him as a receiver and he isn't physical enough to be another more than a novelty in this offense. These guys seem to be more readily available than true WR's, so I hope they target a guy and get one early.
It's not even a question for me. Another thing I look to is upgrading the Ervin position to a Deebo-type. Ervin has the wheels, but no one is afraid of him as a receiver and he isn't physical enough to be another more than a novelty in this offense. These guys seem to be more readily available than true WR's, so I hope they target a guy and get one early.
I mean, as a lover of Deebo and Ayiuk and Gibson over the past couple years, I'm obvi totes on board with this. Given how long they waited to bring Ervin back last offseason, it's clear they're open to upgrading, as well
It's not even a question for me. Another thing I look to is upgrading the Ervin position to a Deebo-type. Ervin has the wheels, but no one is afraid of him as a receiver and he isn't physical enough to be another more than a novelty in this offense. These guys seem to be more readily available than true WR's, so I hope they target a guy and get one early.
I'd like that, I wasn't a Dillon guy, in fact I don't even see the fit, he's a fast plodder, a Samual type or a Justin Jefferson who was my fav player would fit us much better, when MLF said he wanted a stretch running game then that speed is a must.
everyone see's these mis direction schemes as the future of the league, so defenses are using fast lbers that can reach the edge, while Dillon may be a brute these big safety's and lbers are able to close those edge run lanes, smaller quicker RB's imo fare better.
4-FA - 10 1000 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
1-3 - 35 1000 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
4-FA - 16 750 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
1-3 - 62 750 yard rushers as a rookie since 1990
I wouldn't say that is minuscule at all. Obviously a first to third rounder is going to have a better shot at being a productive runner in year 1. Some of that has to do with talent, some with opportunity. Productive rookie rushers can definitely be had after round 3.
I get what you're saying, but I hate "planning" on that when such a large hole is there. It's kind of like saying, "look at the 49ers and Seahawks. They got Warner and Wagner in Round 3 and Round 5. You don't need to invest in ILB early."
I mean yeah that's true. But there are a bunch of losers there too. Way more losers than not.
My problem with losing Jones is you need to replace a dynamic and slashing runner but also a great pass blocker, route runner and hands catcher. I mean these types are RARE. I don't think it makes sense for the Packers to spend big money on more then 1 WR. But I think it does make sense to spend big $ on 1 WR and 1 RB who also acts like a WR.
Drafting a RB means it takes 2 years to develop into a route runner and 2 years to be able to block for the QB. We just don't have that time. I'm not very interested in that. I really want Aaron Jones back.
wow, since 1990 the draft has produced about a 100 4th round to UFA 1000 yrd RB's, out of what a couple thousand RB's? not good odds at all, prior to injury Jones was on pace for 2000 yrds of offense, just like last year.
Jones is also a perfect fit for Lafluers run schemes, coupled with the mis direction motion guy like Ervin and a pulling TE (faster then Lewis) and Jones would be a big loss, thats why I think the coaches will pull for Gute to resign Jones.
10, 4th round to undrafted free agent RBs have gained 1000 yards on the ground in their rookie season. (not 100)
35, 1st round to 3rd round RBs have gained 1000 yards on the ground in their rookie season.
779 total RBs drafted since 1990.
251 total UFA RBs have gained at least 1 yard in their rookie season since 1990.
No other good way to determine how many rookie RBs get a chance in the NFL each year.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
It's not even a question for me. Another thing I look to is upgrading the Ervin position to a Deebo-type. Ervin has the wheels, but no one is afraid of him as a receiver and he isn't physical enough to be another more than a novelty in this offense. These guys seem to be more readily available than true WR's, so I hope they target a guy and get one early.
I'd like that, I wasn't a Dillon guy, in fact I don't even see the fit, he's a fast plodder, a Samual type or a Justin Jefferson who was my fav player would fit us much better, when MLF said he wanted a stretch running game then that speed is a must.
everyone see's these mis direction schemes as the future of the league, so defenses are using fast lbers that can reach the edge, while Dillon may be a brute these big safety's and lbers are able to close those edge run lanes, smaller quicker RB's imo fare better.
I'm not gonna lie. I want the Aaron Jones/Kamara/Cook type (though Cook is a bit larger) and I want the Travis Henry type.
With Dillon and Jones, we would have both. Then get your Deebo Samuel mold in the 2nd/3rd round and this offense is DOPE.
thx for making the effort, but 1990 is a hundred years ago in terms of how the game is played in 2020.
Even going back to 2000 isn't all that informative for the purposes of this discussion about the Packers future at RB
32 teams across 5-6 recent drafts is probably a decent sample size in terms of later round RBs and their production
For sure. They are very different backs as Jones is more of that receiver threat as well which is why I think he would be a great fit in the offense with Dillon.
But yes. The price very well may be out of our reach.
From everything we've heard, the Packers have had talks with him, and nothing has come of it so far. Maybe his asking price is too much for them to pay?
Or maybe, they wanted to get Bak out of the way before they really got serious with Jones because they knew just how much they had to work with.
From everything we've heard, the Packers have had talks with him, and nothing has come of it so far. Maybe his asking price is too much for them to pay?
Or maybe, they wanted to get Bak out of the way before they really got serious with Jones because they knew just how much they had to work with.
Yeah, the way Gute answered questions after the Bakh deal, it sounds a little like this might have been holding up some other things and they now feel they have the flexibility to work on others.
thx for making the effort, but 1990 is a hundred years ago in terms of how the game is played in 2020.
Even going back to 2000 isn't all that informative for the purposes of this discussion about the Packers future at RB
32 teams across 5-6 recent drafts is probably a decent sample size in terms of later round RBs and their production
It's really not all the minuscule even looking at the last 6 seasons. With Dillon in the fold and a later round rookie, we can replace Jones' production. I would love to have Jones back and I am not saying it would be super easy to replace him, but it can be done without spending a 1-3 round pick.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Here is the even more interesting part. Of the 7 1000 yard rookie rushers drafted in round 1-3 since 2014, 5 of them were first round picks and of those 4 of them were top 10 picks.
So, since 2014, 5 rookie runningbacks were drafted outside the top 10 or were a free agent and gained 1000 yards that season. 2 of that group were free agents or outside the first 3 rounds.
Looks like are just as well off looking for later round or free agent runningback to replace Jones' production because we certainly aren't getting a top 10 pick.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Here is the even more interesting part. Of the 7 1000 yard rookie rushers drafted in round 1-3 since 2014, 5 of them were first round picks and of those 4 of them were top 10 picks.
So, since 2014, 5 rookie runningbacks were drafted outside the top 10 or were a free agent and gained 1000 yards that season. 2 of that group were free agents or outside the first 3 rounds.
Looks like are just as well off looking for later round or free agent runningback to replace Jones' production because we certainly aren't getting a top 10 pick.
It is such a crapshoot with running backs. Just look at a couple of guys in recent times. Montgomery with the Bears and Singletary with the Bills.
Who knows if Montgomery is any good since the Bears don't really use him. As for Singletary, the Bills had high hopes for him, but last I saw, Zack Moss has taken over.
I don't want to throw in goofballs like Guice, but he's an example of someone who has all the tools, but the idiot gene takes over.
Don't forget, we just invested a 2nd round pick in AJ Dillon. I don't think there is a large hole or such a large one that a late round RB can not fill it.
I would like Aaron Jones back too, but I don't think it will happen for the money he will want.
It will be interesting to see what kind of offers he gets on the open market.
This hasn't been brought up yet and I think I will put it out there.
Especially if we get another ring, that always helps, but if this Packers offense and Oline plays solid the next three years plus....David B. could be looking at the Hall of Fame.
This hasn't been brought up yet and I think I will put it out there.
Especially if we get another ring, that always helps, but if this Packers offense and Oline plays solid the next three years plus....David B. could be looking at the Hall of Fame.
Maybe... I mean he has the longevity and consistent top level play for an OL. Hasn't revolutionized the game, and could use more All-Pro and Pro Bowl honors to make his case - tho he mainly didn't get 'em earlier in his career due to not having the kind of name recognition high 1st round OTs get.
