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Agreed on Jones. And I understand that we don't want to overwork him (although I think at this point that's silly considering his contract situation), but he's gotten 14, 19, and 20 rushes + targets the last three games. That needs to increase as the year goes on. I want to see more of the 26 rushes + targets game like week 2 vs Detroit.
thanks for clarifying Kyle, my point was combined touches are well down from last year and down considerably from the beginning of the season, when you look at the production as a receiver, why even use him as a RB, just use Williams as the RB and Jones in the slot, out wide or in a 2 back set in play action, I agree Jones should be on the field more, catch to target rate and he has been our best receiver, the guy should be Rodgers #2 receiver.
The problem imo is if you have an Aaron Jones...you should never throw the Ball three straight times unless it’s like 2 minute drill. You should always make the d concerned that 33 is gonna get the ball and break a run. That attention they must put on him, just from the attempt to keep the d honest, makes everything else you want to do easier. Unfortunately we forget this and just try three straight passes often, and then let JK Scott punt a 35 yarder.
That's great, but that does not mean we should never throw the ball 3 times in a row. There are many examples of situations where throwing the ball 3 times in a row would make sense, even outside of a 2 minute offense. Aaron Jones should be on the field more so that teams must respect the run, which is absolutely correct. Williams is fine, but he isn't the same runner. We also need to get both backs into the receiving game more. Williams does give us more in pass blocking, but Jones is much more dynamic.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Just like Adams' career was written after his 2nd season... Right?
Maybe you had written it, I hadn't. But I feel very confident that MVS is no future Davante Adams. You can hold out hope tho!
There are some vocal members on here that had. MVS doesn't have to be Adams to be successful. He has already shown he can be successful, but needs consistency. But by all means write him off already.
Everyone and their mother had written off Adams.
You even heard LeRoy Butler: "Adams couldn't catch a cold."
Maybe you had written it, I hadn't. But I feel very confident that MVS is no future Davante Adams. You can hold out hope tho!
There are some vocal members on here that had. MVS doesn't have to be Adams to be successful. He has already shown he can be successful, but needs consistency. But by all means write him off already.
Everyone and their mother had written off Adams.
You even heard LeRoy Butler: "Adams couldn't catch a cold."
Whaaaa? Adams ability was evident year 1, his 2nd season he played hurt and was the best receiver we had, both Cobb and Nelson where hurt as I recall, I don't know why Leroy would say something like that.
a lot of fans here said he sucked, but I sure as heck wasn't one of them, obviously increased playing time with Rodgers has brought out Adams best attributes, but the skills where always there, great hands, hips, Adams was another instance of McCarthy holding rookies back, he did the same thing with Cobb.
MVS is a whole nother ball game, those two didn't need the coaching up that Scantling has needed and after 3 seasons isn't even in the same ball park as Cobb or Adams
Yeah I’m with Yoop. We are not looking at similiar career trajectories at all. Adams was always smooth and running nice routes, he would just drop the ball in the end zone. MVS drops the ball from time to time and only really has one route in his bag...the gooo route. MVS can work out his kinks, but his potential like GPG said is about WR3.
Adams was disappointing in year two bc his potential was WR1 and he may not have been playing up to that. I never wrote Adams off, and I don’t think their career trajectory arch is remotely similar.
This memory of year 2 Adams is much more rosy than what people thought or said at the time. Most were calling him a total bust, not even just a disappointment for a 2nd round pick.
No one is saying MVS is going to be Adams.
If we need another Adams for the offense to work, that is a failure of coaching.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
MVS reminds me a lot of James Jones early in his career. Just drives you nuts.
I think "bonehead play of the season" goes to whoever decided to throw to him on 3rd and 4 in the first drive of the second half. It was crucial that we got a first down because the defence had just faced a 7 minute drive and needed rest. So try a back shoulder throw to the one man who has consistently not been on the same page as Rodgers? We have at least 5 more reliable receivers than him, so put them on the field. Speed wasn't the prime need for that play, reliability was.
Though I understand your thought here, I'm not sure we have 5 more reliable receivers - or guys that I would trust more than MVS. I mean, Adams for sure. Maybe Lazard (and mind you he was coming off injury), that leaves.... Tonyan? I certainly wouldn't trust anyone else over MVS at this point, no matter how frustrating he makes me. Which, further reminds me of when Jones was here and why he was still on the field -there wasn't really anyone else who you would trust, nobody else that still had as much upside.
I would add Jones and Williams as more reliable on a 3rd and 4, as well as the three you name. Do they keep stats on how many passes go nowhere near the intended receiver? I bet Rodgers throws more missed-by-a-mile throws to MVS than to anyone else, and I'm not even saying whose fault it is - just that too often, MVS isn't where Rodgers expects him to be.
Maybe you had written it, I hadn't. But I feel very confident that MVS is no future Davante Adams. You can hold out hope tho!
There are some vocal members on here that had. MVS doesn't have to be Adams to be successful. He has already shown he can be successful, but needs consistency. But by all means write him off already.
Everyone and their mother had written off Adams.
You even heard LeRoy Butler: "Adams couldn't catch a cold."
For some reason, way too many people forgot Adams had a bad ankle in his second year. If I remember correctly, the Packers brought him back a week or two early and he hurt it again. That's the only reason his sophomore year was a disappointment.
There are some vocal members on here that had. MVS doesn't have to be Adams to be successful. He has already shown he can be successful, but needs consistency. But by all means write him off already.
Everyone and their mother had written off Adams.
You even heard LeRoy Butler: "Adams couldn't catch a cold."
For some reason, way too many people forgot Adams had a bad ankle in his second year. If I remember correctly, the Packers brought him back a week or two early and he hurt it again. That's the only reason his sophomore year was a disappointment.
It's a big reason for sure, but he had the dropsies that year too.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
You even heard LeRoy Butler: "Adams couldn't catch a cold."
For some reason, way too many people forgot Adams had a bad ankle in his second year. If I remember correctly, the Packers brought him back a week or two early and he hurt it again. That's the only reason his sophomore year was a disappointment.
It's a big reason for sure, but he had the dropsies that year too.
He was getting way too many targets for his production in his 2nd year. We lost to the kitties he had 21 targets and 10 receptions. We lost to duh bares he had 11 targets and 2 rec. He was also spending more time screaming for the PI than fighting for a tight ball. Where as MVS just drops it. He maybe able to find some hands, but if you can't catch the ones that are laid in your hands you're not long for this world.
For some reason, way too many people forgot Adams had a bad ankle in his second year. If I remember correctly, the Packers brought him back a week or two early and he hurt it again. That's the only reason his sophomore year was a disappointment.
It's a big reason for sure, but he had the dropsies that year too.
He was getting way too many targets for his production in his 2nd year. We lost to the kitties he had 21 targets and 10 receptions. We lost to duh bares he had 11 targets and 2 rec. He was also spending more time screaming for the PI than fighting for a tight ball. Where as MVS just drops it. He maybe able to find some hands, but if you can't catch the ones that are laid in your hands you're not long for this world.
Jones and Cobb produced 1600 yrds that year, a gimpy Adams produced 600, sure he dropped some he should have easily caught, but most where tough catches brought about because it's actually hard for a QB to know where to throw the ball to a gimpy receiver that because of the injury doesn't/isn't able to run the same speed, cut out of his breaks, with the same consistency he normally would, it's the same as when Rodgers throws to anyone that isn't running the route the same as he does in practice.
Maybe you had written it, I hadn't. But I feel very confident that MVS is no future Davante Adams. You can hold out hope tho!
There are some vocal members on here that had. MVS doesn't have to be Adams to be successful. He has already shown he can be successful, but needs consistency. But by all means write him off already.
Everyone and their mother had written off Adams.
You even heard LeRoy Butler: "Adams couldn't catch a cold."
Rightfully so. Adams is the only player in league history who forgot how to catch because of an ankle injury. Made no sense.
my biggest complaint connected to Scantling and Brown and ? was that we drafted 3 receivers that needed a lot of coaching up and really only had Adams as a actual ready to play guy, just like this last draft we still needed a receiver to compliment what Adams is capable of, quick separation.
my biggest complaint connected to Scantling and Brown and ? was that we drafted 3 receivers that needed a lot of coaching up and really only had Adams as a actual ready to play guy, just like this last draft we still needed a receiver to compliment what Adams is capable of, quick separation.
I mean the idea was to draft 3 and down the road you have at least one developed WR that is competent. Unfortunately it looks like we didn’t hit on any of them. I’m still holding out hopes for ESB. He’s got the least experience do to injury but it hasn’t looked good so far.
Adams caught 50 passes in 2015 but averaged a pedestrian 9.7 yards per reception and just 3.0 yards after the catch. Adams dropped 12 of the 96 passes thrown his way in 2015 (12.5%), and Pro Football Focus ranked him as the No. 118 receiver out of 119 who played at least 25% of their team’s snaps.
He did not play well his 2nd year, even considering the injury. Jordy Nelson didn't come on until the playoffs his 3rd year. Both were much more NFL ready than Valdes-Scantling. Time for him to turn it on!
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 29 Nov 2020 14:21, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Adams caught 50 passes in 2015 but averaged a pedestrian 9.7 yards per reception and just 3.0 yards after the catch. Adams dropped 12 of the 96 passes thrown his way in 2015 (12.5%), and Pro Football Focus ranked him as the No. 118 receiver out of 119 who played at least 25% of their team’s snaps.
He did not pay well his 2nd year even considering the injury. Jordy Nelson didn't come on until the playoffs his 3rd year. Both were much more NFL ready than Valdes-Scantling. Time for him to turn it on!
The game where it clicked for Adams was vs Philly in 2016. Otherwise before that, Davante Adams was terrible in 2015 and okay in early 2016. He wasn't an ascending player who had an issue with injury. He just plain sucked. He dropped everything. He was a high picked player who needed to and had the opportunity to step up when Nelson went down in 2015 and was garbage.
The 2015 - late November 2016 Packers offense was the worst offense in Green Bay of my life time only to be matched when Brett Hundley was quarterback as well as 2005.
And a large reason why the offense sucked was because Davante Adams sucked. This very forum had so many calls of BUST. CUT HIM NOW. Thompson no longer knows how to draft WRs in the 2nd round.
I saw MVS very close to having that breakout game last Sunday. I'm very excited about MVS. Not as a potential star and #1, but the dude has what it takes to easily be a solid #3.
it clicked for Adams right from the start, just look at the stats as a rookie, he had a very good catch to target rate, and it dropped quite a bit in year two because of the injury, good god you people will say anything to defend Scantling, and I could care less about what people here said about Adams year two, I didn't agree then and I sure wont agree now
Player A:
38 receptions, 73 targets, 581 yards, 2 touchdowns
Player B:
38 receptions, 66 targets, 446 yards, 3 touchdowns
If we are simply going off of rookie year stats...
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Player A:
38 receptions, 73 targets, 581 yards, 2 touchdowns
Player B:
38 receptions, 66 targets, 446 yards, 3 touchdowns
If we are simply going off of rookie year stats...
where not because Adams had Cobb and Jones ahead of him, and Scantling had basically Adams, MVS was targeted 7 more times and still only caught 38 passes, Adams as a rook with say only Cobb and he would have been targeted more, Jones however had a good season, about 50 catches and over 800 yrds, a lot of that production would have went to Adams.
