Panthers @ Packers GDT - Saturday 12/19 7:25 PM CST

[go pak go]

As for offense in the first half:

Aaron Jones was superb. Again he was so good at bouncing to the outside and our passing attack was so weak that Jones is the only reason we really scored on all 3 possessions. The Panthers are weak up front and the Packer took advantage. There seemed to be like 8 running plays in a row and the Panthers could do nothing.

The Panthers had ZERO answer for the Left Tackle run. Whether it was Jones or Dillon, the Packers could do whatever they wanted on that left tackle run. The only reason we didn't end the game at half and go up 28 to 3 is because we stopped running. We tried to get cute. We tried to force passes. It was almost like our only goal was to get Rodgers stats and it destroyed our offense.

Players who struggled:

We won't win a championship is Corey Linsley doesn't play. It's not that we are having trouble replacing Linsley. It is that Lucas Patrick has had a really, really bad stretch of games. My hope is it is because of his position switch as he started to suck when he went on the left side. Conversely, Billy Turner reminded us all why we hated the signing in 2019. He is a really, really bad guard. Brown absolutely owned both of them all day. The reason our left tackle runs were successful were because Jones could beat the DT to the boundary and our inferior guard play didn't matter.

Davante Adams - Jeremy Chinn owned Davante. It is really hard to see two players I loved in the draft process absolutely excel in Brian Burns and Jeremy Chinn. Davante though just ran poor routes and was really bad at catching the ball. He and Rodgers were not on the same page and everything in the passing looked forced. We honestly could have and should have run over 175 yards in that first half.

Allen Lazard - He only had one bad play. But it took points off the board. Our passing game stunk but LeFluer designed an awesome play to take advantage of our Oline getting creamed and Lazard just dropped it.

Matt LeFluer - The play calling was atrocious in the final 5 minutes. We were destroying them on the ground. The only reason we didn't score 28+ points in the first half is because we would throw the ball. Our Oline was so bad at protecting Rodgers that nothing could get going. You could tell they were constantly looking for the shot play and they were never there. Just keep pounding the rock. It was working. And it was the only thing that was working.

[RingoCStarrQB]

I saw Dillon in one snap and he looked pretty good. I still can see him as some Starks 2021!

Did Rush play? Austin played..any observations about him?

Austin played on offense and Special Teams .......... didn't make any mistakes so that's a plus already. I feel Austin on the field helps the confidence factor. Austin is expected to play smartly and adequately, and so far he has done that. Good job by Gutey so far.

I did not see Rush play. Don't know if he was activated or not. Wondering what kind of shape #79 is really in.

Dillon #38 ............ ran the ball once and looked ready. Hoping he blossoms into a John Riggins some day. Or at the very least another William Henderson. Doubt he'll be a Starks-like running back. Have no idea if he can catch a screen pass or not (as both William Henderson and John Riggins were perfectly capable of). Of course Dillon's blocking needs to be proven as well. What kind of speed does Dillon have anyway?

[Christo]

The offense also has gone though phases where they don't execute. MN, TB, JAX, IND and now CAR where the offense just stops for a quarter or longer.

This, to me, is our biggest obstacle; you can't go cold at the strength of your team. An offense that moves the ball efficiently is our team identity. We need to live up to it. If we have a 3&out we absolutely have to bounce back with execution and some time of possession on the next series. Can't let them stack up and expose our defense too long.

I think there was too much of an emphasis to get Adams the ball. That wasn't happening tonight, so we needed to get it to others.

I'm happy they won, kinda bummed about the sleepwalking they went through after the second half of quarter number 2.
But I agree they sometimes force the ball to Adams. Maybe it's a mentality that says, no matter what coverage you have against Adams, we're going to prove to everybody, we can get him the ball.
That kind of stubbornness can be dangerous.

On the bright side, Jones is starting to have some breakaways. That's a good thing to see.

[go pak go]

The most frustrating portion of the game was 3:00 or so left in he 2nd quarter to 5:00 to go in the 3rd quarter.

It was frustrating not because we were overwhelmed but because we shot ourselves in the foot and didn't make the plays we need to make.

We already documented the struggles and going away from the run which was working in the 2nd quarter.

As for the 3rd quarter, it was stopped because Adams had a horrible drop and because our oline was garbage. We were in position on two possessions to move the chains and just didn't execute.

As for defense, actually played well until we didn't. Again, it was more our doing of mistakes than it was not being good enough. Jaire Alexander had two plays he needs back. The first play is he attacks the QB rather than staying in his zone which means he was not in position to take on Moore when he snuck in there. Assuredly an incomplete and potential 10 yard sack turns into a 20 plus yard play. The following series of downs, Alexander has a chance to make an INT in the endzone and doesn't attack the ball. Those are the balls he needs to make. We stop them on 3rd down but King has a D holding call and Bridgewater has a 15+ yard scramble for a TD.

Essentially 3 defensive mistakes in a row costs us 7 points.

As for the first series in the third quarter....Krys Barnes was amazing. He had a really, really good series. The screen he blew up was insane.

[Christo]

Boy, I am so not looking forward to the Playoffs. We win against Meh-Teams like the Panthers, but the How is what troubles me, considering the much better teams we'll face in the postseason. For now I just enjoy the ride. January will come soon enough.

p.s. Remember Jones' long run right at the start of the game? He didn't look pretty fast, in fact he remembered me of Lacy when he was easily catched by CAR defenders. I just ask because many "experts" decribe him as pretty fast, but it just doesn't look so. He just seems to have good vision and acceleration.

Playing like the game is over after 20 minutes is never a good thing. No excuses for not playing to your maximum in the playoffs. After hearing from the players and coaches how important it is to play in Lambeau, they better play hard.

As for Jones, yeah ' he's not a burner in straight line speed, but he's incredibly quick and has great balance in the hole. That's a tradeoff I can live with.

[Yoop]

The most frustrating portion of the game was 3:00 or so left in he 2nd quarter to 5:00 to go in the 3rd quarter.

It was frustrating not because we were overwhelmed but because we shot ourselves in the foot and didn't make the plays we need to make.

We already documented the struggles and going away from the run which was working in the 2nd quarter.

As for the 3rd quarter, it was stopped because Adams had a horrible drop and because our oline was garbage. We were in position on two possessions to move the chains and just didn't execute.

As for defense, actually played well until we didn't. Again, it was more our doing of mistakes than it was not being good enough. Jaire Alexander had two plays he needs back. The first play is he attacks the QB rather than staying in his zone which means he was not in position to take on Moore when he snuck in there. Assuredly an incomplete and potential 10 yard sack turns into a 20 plus yard play. The following series of downs, Alexander has a chance to make an INT in the endzone and doesn't attack the ball. Those are the balls he needs to make. We stop them on 3rd down but King has a D holding call and Bridgewater has a 15+ yard scramble for a TD.

Essentially 3 defensive mistakes in a row costs us 7 points.

As for the first series in the third quarter....Krys Barnes was amazing. He had a really, really good series. The screen he blew up was insane.

who is the we that documented our run struggles?

we used 21 package with Williams and Jones to start, the grouping of two RB's that do both techs well forces defenses to designate DB's for that coverage, unless you want to match up a lber for that coverage and get toasted, as we see it happens to ours a couple times a game.

Williams departed (never to return) right after we went up 21 to 3, thats when Lafluer cut back on the run, because now the Panthers had only one receiver to worry about in the backfield, and only 1 RB to scheme for, and they loaded the box to stop him and dialed up the pass rush, and the receivers didn't get open fast enough to beat there pass rush, thats about it.

Lafluer still doesn't trust Dillon enough it seems.

another tid bit, Amos played a lot of hybrid lber once Barnes was hurt, the dime package I read was often Amos at hybrid, Savage at SS and Scott at FS, interesting to see Pettine trying new positional fits, to me KIrksey was a liability most of the snaps he played, completely whiffed on Moore's first down run, and no match for anyone in coverage, with Barnes out though he is the more experienced MLB over Martin, or at least that must have been what Pettine was thinking.
I havn't seen tackle stats yet but Amos must have had a doz.

a win is a win, just wasn't as much fun as we like.

[go pak go]

The most frustrating portion of the game was 3:00 or so left in he 2nd quarter to 5:00 to go in the 3rd quarter.

It was frustrating not because we were overwhelmed but because we shot ourselves in the foot and didn't make the plays we need to make.

We already documented the struggles and going away from the run which was working in the 2nd quarter.

As for the 3rd quarter, it was stopped because Adams had a horrible drop and because our oline was garbage. We were in position on two possessions to move the chains and just didn't execute.

As for defense, actually played well until we didn't. Again, it was more our doing of mistakes than it was not being good enough. Jaire Alexander had two plays he needs back. The first play is he attacks the QB rather than staying in his zone which means he was not in position to take on Moore when he snuck in there. Assuredly an incomplete and potential 10 yard sack turns into a 20 plus yard play. The following series of downs, Alexander has a chance to make an INT in the endzone and doesn't attack the ball. Those are the balls he needs to make. We stop them on 3rd down but King has a D holding call and Bridgewater has a 15+ yard scramble for a TD.

Essentially 3 defensive mistakes in a row costs us 7 points.

As for the first series in the third quarter....Krys Barnes was amazing. He had a really, really good series. The screen he blew up was insane.

who is the we that documented our run struggles?

we used 21 package with Williams and Jones to start, the grouping of two RB's that do both techs well forces defenses to designate DB's for that coverage, unless you want to match up a lber for that coverage and get toasted, as we see it happens to ours a couple times a game.

Williams departed (never to return) right after we went up 21 to 3, thats when Lafluer cut back on the run, because now the Panthers had only one receiver to worry about in the backfield, and only 1 RB to scheme for, and they loaded the box to stop him and dialed up the pass rush, and the receivers didn't get open fast enough to beat there pass rush, thats about it.

Lafluer still doesn't trust Dillon enough it seems.

another tid bit, Amos played a lot of hybrid lber once Barnes was hurt, the dime package I read was often Amos at hybrid, Savage at SS and Scott at FS, interesting to see Pettine trying new positional fits, to me KIrksey was a liability most of the snaps he played, completely whiffed on Moore's first down run, and no match for anyone in coverage, with Barnes out though he is the more experienced MLB over Martin, or at least that must have been what Pettine was thinking.
I havn't seen tackle stats yet but Amos must have had a doz.

a win is a win, just wasn't as much fun as we like.

Huh. I guess I didn't notice us use 2 back packages at all outside of that first drive.

I also didn't know Barnes was injured yesterday. It looked like he played the whole game to me. I didn't see Vernon play at all and I don't think Amos had that many tackles. He definitely had at least 4 passes defended.

So to say...I don't think I can agree with one thin in this post.

[Pckfn23]

[kyle.mccarroll]

Thanks for that breakdown GPG, really cool stuff.

It's funny but I feel like every time I go back and dig in to the defense's performance, I always end up saying "well that wasn't quite as bad as it felt". They have a way of making things look and feel so much uglier than reality. And they're always just a few things that take us from a good performance to a so-so/bad game. I feel like Saturday it was:

1) Kevin King just not jumping to defend a 40 yard DJ Moore completion (although it was still good coverage IMO)
2) Offense going cold in the 3Q
3) King/Kirksey/Sullivan deciding not to tackle Moore in the 4Q

Take away those two big gains that probably should have been stopped + maybe the worst half of offensive football we've played all year, and it's a 10 point defensive performance. Oh, and don't forget that we lost Barnes and had to play Kirksey in the 2H as well. I mean, Carolina had ten offensive drives in the game - if our defense gives us 1.6 points per drive in the playoffs, we'll win this thing going away.

I know that we do this every game and it doesn't mean anything in itself, but we still seem so close to putting it together. Even if it always looks ugly and even if we never do, we are still close enough that we can get lucky in a single elimination format for a game or two and put together 'good enough for SB winning' performances paired with our offense. We don't need the 2010 defense to win the SB this year. We just need a couple of lucky bounces.

[BF004]

Bill White Shoes Bootstrap Turner came to play.

[go pak go]

Bill White Shoes Bootstrap Turner came to play.

I saw him get owned a few times. I really have a hard time buying this. Especially in pass block.

If I remember right, the 3rd and 2 where we had Adams open on a crosser was unable to be executed because Brown got right past Turner.

[NCF]

Bill White Shoes Bootstrap Turner came to play.

I saw him get owned a few times. I really have a hard time buying this. Especially in pass block.

If I remember right, the 3rd and 2 where we had Adams open on a crosser was unable to be executed because Brown got right past Turner.

Complete opposite. I noticed him, especially in the running game, doing good things all night. Lucas Patrick on the other hand has had two straight games where we really should be thinking long and hard about starting the Runyan era.

[go pak go]

Bill White Shoes Bootstrap Turner came to play.

I saw him get owned a few times. I really have a hard time buying this. Especially in pass block.

If I remember right, the 3rd and 2 where we had Adams open on a crosser was unable to be executed because Brown got right past Turner.

Complete opposite. I noticed him, especially in the running game, doing good things all night. Lucas Patrick on the other hand has had two straight games where we really should be thinking long and hard about starting the Runyan era.

Yeah I mean PFF agrees so I don't have much footing to stand on.

For sure Patrick sucked. He has sucked for a few weeks now.

[BF004]

Still never know what they are going to do with this OL next, but kind of have a hard time seeing them putting Wagner on the bench and keeping Patrick out there when Linsley is back.

[go pak go]

Still never know what they are going to do with this OL next, but kind of have a hard time seeing them putting Wagner on the bench and keeping Patrick out there when Linsley is back.

Yeah you revert to where we were.

I wonder how close Linsley is. He is eligible to play this week.

[Labrev]

Patrick seems to be worse at LG than RG. I never got the sense he was doing poorly before the switch. I get the sense that LG tends to be a spot that faces tougher match-ups than the right side of the 'line, at least that has long been my impression (but I could be totally off about that).

[BF004]

So just a couple little notes for those 'this isn't a good enough win' folks.

Panthers only lost by more than 8 twice this year, both to Tampa Bay and they do already have a shutout on the year. This is their 3rd biggest loss of the year.



Also, out of the current NFC Playoff caliber teams

1) Packers - won by 8 over 4-9 Panthers
2) Saints - lost at home to Chiefs
3) Seahawks - won by 5 over 6-7 Football Team
4) Football Team - lost by 5
5) Rams - lost by 3 to 0-13 Jets
6) Buccaneers - won by 4 over 4-9 Falcons, taking a huge comback
7) Cardinals - won by 7 over 4-8-1 Eagles
8) Bears - won 6 over the 6-7 Vikings


Biggest win margin of any team. This team certainly is good enough to play in the Super Bowl.


Few more notes to combat the auto-replies, yes we have warts of our own, we are far from perfect, but clearly so does every other team. Saying we are good enough does mean we should expect to be in the Super Bowl, we still have to win two games, even if you give us a 60% chance to win both games given we have the bye. That is still only a 36% chance of making the Super Bowl, still a decent chance we aren't the #1 seed, meaning 3 games, maybe 15-20% chance tops. It is just being realistic that we can definitely be good enough to get there, yet is isn't the most likely outcome.


538 now has us at 79% chance of getting the 1st round bye and 13% chance of winning the Super Bowl.

[Pckfn23]

[Pckfn23]

Huh?

[Labrev]

Yup, I've been clamoring for better ILB talent since 2015 but between Barnes and Martin with Summers behind them, we may be good at the spot now. And at the Dime LB spot, Greene is pretty solid and Scott could be a player.

If a stud LB is available in the draft, I would still consider it, but at this point I think the best thing we can do for our defense is get another quality DT that will allow our LBers to make plays. That and CB, because our defense looks so much better when our starting CBs are performing well.